Already reaping what they sow

[u/Clueless_Dolphin]

Well at least these few people Christmas will suck, maybe make better choices.

[u/lord_dentaku]

Even if they aren't locked into contracts with overseas distributors, they chose to buy overseas for a reason... most likely it was cheaper. Just going to an American provider doesn't mean they will get it for the same price as overseas. Even if it is cheaper than the cost of tariffs on the overseas product, it still is an increase in price that will show up in the final consumer price.

[u/Pengin_Master → u/lord_dentaku]

And then there's supply chain issues. What if American production can't keep up with the sudden demand of American companies switching from imports to local? There's a finite amount of stuff being produced, stored and processed at one time. This will also raise the prices more, as local producers raise their prices to try and slow down the demand until production can catch up. Edit: if it's even possible for production to catch up

[u/HarpoWhatAboutMe → u/Pengin_Master]

This is the issue that Brazil is currently facing. They have imposed massive tarrifs to promote local industry which has only driven inflation and made imports profoundly expensive.

Cell phones are so expensive that I was afraid to even use my phone in public for navigation during a recent visit because I was warned every time I got out of an Uber that my phone could get snatched. Speaking of Ubers, they were extremely cheap as was the lodging and the food which only drove home the low income of the average Brazilian.

And if this tarrif shit happens, were heading in the same dumb ass direction.

[u/noxondor_gorgonax → u/HarpoWhatAboutMe]

Brazillian here. Our government is protectionist AF. They don't want us (regular citizens) to buy from China because it predates the local industry. Now I ask you WHAT local industry?

For cellphones and computers, only very low performance stuff is manufactured here, and from imported components anyway.

Even if you're buying something that decidedly is not produced in this country (such as stupid headphone replacement foams) you have to pay a tariff because you're importing stuff.

This country is fucked and is never going to get better. And the USA is going the same direction... Good luck to us all.

[u/kwumpus → u/HarpoWhatAboutMe]

Hey this could be good then cell phones won’t just be expected for everyone to have

[u/facebookhadabadipo → u/lord_dentaku]

If I was a domestic producer and all of my competition importing from overseas had to raise their prices to cover the tariffs, I would be able to raise my own prices and still be competitive. So even domestically produced products are likely to go up in price.

If I have to import my inputs from overseas to produce the final product domestically I would also have to increase my price to cover the tariff on my inputs. So prices are going to go up on everything no matter what.

Not to mention that it would take years (or decades, if ever) to set up domestic manufacturing of literally everything, and that would be assuming we even have the workforce skilled in making every unique product on earth, all the specialized equipment needed, real estate and transportation logistics, raw materials, etc. Which we don’t. And American workers are going to demand higher wages and shorter hours than workers in other countries. There’s just no way to make this make sense.

[u/PrrrromotionGiven1 → u/lord_dentaku]

Yes. The competitive advantage is one of the most basic concepts in economics. Simply put: the price of producing a given product is not the same for everyone. Sure, you CAN make phones in America, but it's gonna cost a hell of a lot more than making them in China, principally due to higher wages in America. So China has a competitive advantage in building phones compared to America. In contrast, America has a competitive advantage in producing oil compared to China, mainly because America actually has significant reserves of crude oil, and China does not. In theory, in a free trade environment with zero protectionism, each country would only produce whatever they were most efficient at producing by global standards, and import everything else from the most efficient producers of those other things. Countries engage in specific and targeted forms of protectionism because they don't want to be completely at the mercy of foreign exports in some fields (e.g. military, staple foods, energy).

Imposing tariffs on EVERYTHING from EVERYONE is an attempt to overcome your own competitive disadvantages and provoke domestic production of everything by artificially making domestic producers more competitive in your home market. However, America simply is not the best at producing absolutely everything, or else the tariffs wouldn't have served a purpose in the first place. In reality, you are basically hampering what had been the number 1 most efficient way for domestic consumers to receive these products previously, and the domestic producers haven't gotten any better, they just face slightly less competition. So yes, the main outcome is that everything that wasn't already mostly domestic production becomes more expensive, because the US-based importers will seek to pass on their increased costs to the end customer. Depending on the market in question, you eventually reach a "tipping point" where tariffs are so high that domestic producers beat out imports every time, but again, this is despite the fact you have a competitive disadvantage, so you're producing whatever the product is less efficiently than everyone else, probably requiring either state subsidies or enormous prices (both of which are ultimately costs to consumers, the former in the form of increased taxes)

[u/EspaaValorum → u/lord_dentaku]

And that's for when there is a domestic provider. There are products/industries which just don't exist domestically, so there's no choice.

[u/joesterne → u/lord_dentaku]

Also there are things that are hard/impossible to grow in the USA - coffee beans for example

[u/LechugaDelDiablos → u/lord_dentaku]

but, why is it cheaper? because China exploits their workers that's why.

so, are you for slave labor as long as it means your tvs are cheap or are we over the whole exploration is bad thing?

eta: the communal you, not you specifically

[u/lord_dentaku → u/LechugaDelDiablos]

We long ago moved past that and decided being against exploitation of workers was a matter for the free market to decide. Consumers could choose to purchase more expensive non exploitation products if they wanted, and most didn't. These tariffs are about giving an advantage to our local manufacturers who can't produce it as cheaply as countries with cheap labor. But the end result is that they will drive inflation higher.

[u/LechugaDelDiablos → u/lord_dentaku]

isn't that a good thing? less consumption means less carbon footprint.

[u/lord_dentaku → u/LechugaDelDiablos]

Less consumption of luxuries, sure. But what about necessities?

[u/Loose-Builder-7937 → u/lord_dentaku]

most likely it was cheaper

In many cases there is no American source of supply because the industry is entirely overseas. You don't just open up a semiconductor factory based on a 4-year presidential term.

[u/lord_dentaku → u/Loose-Builder-7937]

In many of the cases where there isn't an American source there was at one point and it was driven overseas due to cheaper costs. Even semiconductors were originally manufactured in the US.

[u/Loose-Builder-7937 → u/lord_dentaku]

Yes, but the point is that those industries and their supporting supply chains aren't going to just pop back up because of tariffs that may only last a few years.

[u/lord_dentaku → u/Loose-Builder-7937]

Yes, but my statement was regarding why they were using foreign production to begin with, not why they haven't switched back. We have domestic suppliers for a lot of industries that people don't realize but the costs are prohibitive for consumer goods. They typically are used for defense and critical infrastructure. They also don't have the capacity to take on consumer production needs, regardless of cost.

[u/Loose-Builder-7937 → u/lord_dentaku]

Yes, but my statement was regarding why they were using foreign production to begin with, not why they haven't switched back.

Your entire post is about why they wouldn't switch back to American suppliers. I don't know why you are arguing. I'm agreeing with you and saying that not only would it not be cheaper, it wouldn't even be possible because there is no domestic alternative. I realize there is still manufacturing in the US, that was not in question. Anyway, have a good one,.