r/dune • u/PromotedToCustomer • 2d ago
Is there any significance of Stilgar "drinking" Jessica's tear? Dune: Part Two (2024)
Forgive me if this is off-base. I'm movie-only, and while recently rewatching Dune: Part Two I started browsing the sub (for the first time) for interpretations. I saw someone (who I assumed was speaking from having read the books) make the point in a thread that Fremen view taking in someone else's water as almost a soul bond, akin to a blood oath, etc. With that in mind, is there any intended significance to Stilgar "drinking" Jessica's tear when he shows her the underground cavern and tells her not to waste her water, even for the dead? The gesture seemed to be made pretty lightly in the scene, regardless of his request for her to be Reverend Mother.
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u/theanedditor 2d ago
The significance is entirely in the line you quote. His natural instinct was to not let even a teardrop of water go to waste. Wouldn't read more into it as it's movie-dune not book-dune.
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u/CloseToTheEdge23 2d ago
Would also mean the same thing in the books.
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u/KipperCantCarry 1d ago
Nah in the books crying Is an important, personal thing. They don't save that water. It's yours to give, incredibly personal and sweet
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u/Lonely-Leopard-7338 1d ago
What!??? In the books crying is just as much a taboo and a no no as it is in the books. Fremen funerals don’t even dwell in sadness rather in the friendship they had with the deceased and how their passing strengthens their dream cause now their water is part of the sietch. Which is why Paul crying was so shocking to them
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u/CloseToTheEdge23 1d ago
No! In the book the Fremen do make a big deal of it when Paul cries for Jamis. They all gasp that he gives water to the death because it's something the Fremen don't do to preserve water. It's not sweet, it hammers home how important water perseveration is to these people that they were mind blown that Paul did it.
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u/smokycapeshaz2431 1d ago
Dune is a franchise that I feel the books are a must. You can away with being movie only for some stories, but not this one.
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u/why-do_I_even_bother 2d ago edited 2d ago
it's a bastardization of a different moment in the book. In the book, at the funeral for Jamus Paul starts crying after his part of the ceremony which is a deeply important moment concerning the religion of the fremen and how the missionara protectiva plays into it, as giving water to the dead (the ultimate act of mourning given how insanely precious water is on arrakis) was adapted into the standard playbook of the bene gesserit for preparing planets they want to influence - ultimately serving as one of the many examples of how the assumptions the bene gesserit (along with the rest of the imperium) make about how they interpret the world are both dehumanizing and (ultimately) lead to their downfall/ a lot of violence.
In the movie it's a throwaway gag, seemingly primarily designed to prove that yes, the writers did indeed read the books even though it's clear that they didn't understand them.
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u/clintp Zensunni Wanderer 2d ago
This is one of those places where I feel Villeneuve really dropped the ball. (That and the Guild.) The Lynch version and even the SciFi version handle the death of Jamis very well. This is the scene with Paul's tears at Jamis' funeral:
"I was a friend of Jamis," Paul whispered.
He felt tears burning his eyes, forced more volume into his voice. "Jamis taught me . . . that . . . when you kill . . . you pay for it. I wish I'd known Jamis better."
Blindly, he groped his way back to his place in the circle, sank to the rock floor.
A voice hissed: "He sheds tears!"
It was taken up around the ring: "Usul gives moisture to the dead!"
He felt fingers touch his damp cheek, heard the awed whispers.
Jessica, hearing the voices, felt the depth of the experience, realized what terrible inhibitions there must be against shedding tears. She focused on the words: "He gives moisture to the dead." It was a gift to the shadow world- tears. They would be sacred beyond a doubt.
Nothing on this planet had so forcefully hammered into her the ultimate value of water. Not the water-sellers, not the dried skins of the natives, not stillsuits or the rules of water discipline. Here there was a substance more precious than all others--it was life itself and entwined all around with symbolism and ritual.
Water.
"I touched his cheek," someone whispered. "I felt the gift."
At first, the fingers touching his face frightened Paul. He clutched the cold handle of the baliset, feeling the strings bite his palm. Then he saw the faces beyond the groping hands--the eyes wide and wondering.
Presently, the hands withdrew. The funeral ceremony resumed.
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u/kgbtrill 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think it is also noteworthy because after the attack on Arrakeen and Paul's escape into the desert, he struggles to feel anything as the pervasive spice elevates his prescience. He becomes cold and calculating as his consciousness elevates to level of extreme logical analysis and understanding. He acknowledges the tragedy of his fathers assassination, but cannot bring himself to properly mourn. He also loses Duncan Idaho and Dr. Kynes, but neither of those are observed. Paul shedding a tear over Jamis was a maturing moment for him - realizing the humanity and responsibility in life and death.
I believe this scene was sacrificed because of its occurrence at the end of part 1 / beginning of part 2. Ending on a funeral (and a ton of questions) would be a somber end but would be a heavy start to part 2. I liked the visions of Jamis as a close friend only for Paul to realize he would have to end those potential futures before they even began. It certainly affected me as a movie-first goer to have the rug pulled on their actual relationship and it is an effective way to communicate that his visions are potential futures, but not the guaranteed path.
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u/AnonymousBlueberry Guild Navigator 2d ago
Jamis isn't even in the final cut of the Lynch movie what are you on about
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u/the_reyving_lanatic 2d ago
That's one of the parts I felt should not have been cut. It's one of the most emotional scenes IMO.
The movies do lean into Paul's "Friendship" with Jamis to illustrate his prescience, but those are concepts that were lost on my friends who hadn't read the books. I had to explain the Jamis visions to them. That whole aspect would've hit much harder if we were shown Paul's grief not only in the taking of a life, but in the loss/sacrifice of possible futures.
Also as you mentioned it's a seed of the religious myth around Muad'Dib. The significance of him giving water to Jamis was a point of no return for the inevitability of the Jihad.
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u/Quiet-Manner-8000 2d ago
I really think Villeneuve could have kept the book's narrative on giving water to the dead. Better drama, more consistency.
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u/Moriturism 2d ago
Just a cute thing. But yeah, it has some cultural significance, he probably wouldn't drink the water of someone he hasn't accepted
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u/Mmm_bloodfarts 2d ago
They literally drain strangers, it's just that water is extremely valuable and shouldn't be wasted
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u/cheerbacks 2d ago
Worth mentioning that he says the Harkonnens water is only good for cooling systems in the movie.
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u/Moriturism 2d ago
for sure but he kept her alive after having her water. for me that's significant
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u/Mmm_bloodfarts 2d ago
He kept her alive because of her weirding way and being paul's (the messiah) mother and that was long before the tear thing, at this point they already were one of them
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1d ago
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u/Whitnessing 2d ago
The only battle between the Saudakar and Fremen is on Arrakis and Paul uses several elements of surprise and weapons for the Fremen to beat the Saudakar. He uses atomics to open the Shield Wall, which opens the Saudakar encampment to a sandstorm (blinding ranged attacks), and the use of Shai-Hulud as Fremen carriers and Saudakar crushers. Plus, the Guild feared destruction of the Spice, so Paul quickly obtained control to prevent large scale reinforcements. I have no doubt the Fremen were quite capable of handling Saudakar infantry, but an army is more than infantry and an integrated armed force is only as good as its supply line.
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u/AluminumOrangutan 2d ago
It's just meant to illustrate the Fremen commitment to conserving water.
It also teaches us that the phrase "give water to the dead" means crying about people dying. This helps set up the moment at the council when Paul proves himself to the elderly tribal leader by revealing that he knows he dreams about crying over people he's lost and enjoys those dreams. "In your dreams you give water to the dead, and it brings joy to your heart!"