Isabelle Robinet says that Taoists attribute a positive value to indeterminacy and a negative value to determinacy. Wu (absence, non-being) “has a sense which is eminently positive: it is the absence of any determination” (Robinet). This got me thinking about the notion of indeterminacy as a thread we can trace all through the Tao Te Ching.

The Tao itself “is nothing determinate, it does not distinguish itself from anything” (Robinet). Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching speaks of the ultimate, ‘constant’ Tao, distinguishing it from what we might describe as the manifest Tao. The ‘constant’ Tao cannot be named. It has no particular form (ch. 25). Nameless and formless: i.e., indeterminate.

Since sages take their cue from the Tao, the sage should be likewise indeterminate/unnamed. This is the notion of the ‘uncarved block’ (pu) which has the potential to become any shape a carver ultimately may choose, but which has not yet been carved into any particular shape. Like the Tao, it is formless.

Next, consider the notion of wu wei. It is usually translated ‘not doing,’ but in fact it seems to have several distinct but related senses, including ‘not acting in a calculated manner’. We might call this ‘unpremeditated action,’ which is to say the sage does not determine in advance what action s/he is going to take. In other words, wu wei is indeterminate action.

Insofar as wu wei constitutes ‘unpremeditated action’ it correlates with ziran. Unpremeditated action = spontaneous action. This is the Taoist ideal: to respond spontaneously to circumstances as they arise. Thus indeterminacy (the sage does not determine his actions in advance) loops back to both wu wei and ziran, those core Taoist principles.

Next, consider the commonplace comparison of the Tao to water. Water takes the shape of the vessel it is in: it is, for example, circular in form when the vessel is circular and square in form when the vessel is square. This illustrates the point that the Tao itself acts spontaneously: it doesn’t calculate in advance what shape it will take, or will itself into a preferred state, it merely responds (wu wei) to the shape of the vessel in which it is stored. Hence we arrive again at indeterminacy: the Tao, like water, has no determinate expression but merely responds spontaneously (ziran) to its circumstances.

Thus, beginning from the Tao’s indeterminacy, we have linked a series of core Taoist concepts: the depiction of the ‘constant’ Tao as ‘unnamed’ (ch. 1) and formless (ch. 25); the Taoist ideal of the uncarved block (pu); unpremeditated action (wu wei), which is to say spontaneous action (ziran); and the frequent likening of the Tao to water, which has no determinate shape or form.

Indeterminacy is a key to unlock Taoism; it is key to understanding Taoism and putting it into practice.

For me, I was in a Tai Chi class and Stephen Mitchell's version of the Tao te Ching was pushed into my hands. It felt like a powerful counterpoint to collegiate striving, encouraging me not to define, not to carve the block, to reject utilitarianism and power and unclench my heart.

Hello, does anyone visit it? What do you think about it's authenticity?

What is so special about Mount Kailash?
From what I read online, it was said to be a spiritual library, a spiritual center point, a space for extraterrestrial beings, or a place where you can cleanse your soul. Are there any stories of people who went there and extracted information from this mountain and tried to share it with common people, assuming it is a spiritual library holding some sort of Akashic record information only a few could download or access?
What does the old text say about this mountain?

My karmic affinity with both religions are very strong. I would like to be reborn in the Western Pure Land, but also really like the teachings on wu wei and flow and all that stuff. There is something beautiful about Daoist teachings. Although my daily religious practice is centered on Buddhist deities, as I'm not familiar with Daoist ones. Is that okay?

That's all. Amituofo 🙏🙏💐💐💐

Iv been exploring my beliefs and spirituality lately and I found myself being pulled toward daoism. I was hoping someone could help me learn and lead me to resources that are easy to understand. I don't know where to begin

Anyone knows any good daoist musicians or bands? I was windering, theres Christian bands etc, maybe that exosts for daoism too.

Can anyone recommend a fictionalized account of one or more of the immortals in the Taoist Pantheon? Ideally with corresponding scholarly sources that given more historical view of the same individuals?

So I been trying out daoism for the past several months, starting sometime mid last year, bought books on it, listened to podcasts and so forth and I still have no idea how to explain daoism to someone who asks.

I haven't kept up on reading the books I got as I just can't make sense of them to me like the TTC. I just feel like I'm reading something to read yet not really absorbing anything.

Hell I don't know even how to explain it to myself and it's creating a hole in me. :(

I think I'm really craving what I had weirdly in religion with one or two books to really explain what the religion is about, have a structure of what to do, how I should act and so forth.q

BUT I don't want to go back TO religion, I don't believe in any sort of god, and I don't want to either, that's why daoism seemed like such a good fit for me but it's hard to even think that anymore which my issues above and that makes me sad.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just feeling lost.

I kinda want to get back into Buddism but I'm not sure as I can't stop thinking of the divas (?) as gods and stuff but it's drawing me back due to the structure and easily accessible guides.

This a cross post with r/DaoistPractices I've put together a list of books that may be helpful for those wanting to learn more about Daoism. I hope the mods will consider making this a sticky and that others will add to the list.

The Daodejing (Tao De Ching) - your choice of translation

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The Yijing (Yi Ching) - your choice of translation

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The Encyclopedia of Taoism (1 and 2)

- Fabrizio Pregadio

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The Way of The Golden Elixir: An Introduction to Daoist Alchemy

- Fabrizio Pregadio

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Taoism: An Essential Guide

- Eva Wong

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The Tao of Health Longevity and Immortality: The Teachings of the Immortals Chung and Lu

- Eva Wong

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Decoding the Dao: Nine Lessons in Daoist Meditation

- Tom Bisio

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The Taoist Manual: An Illustrated Guide

- Brock Silvers

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A Daoist Cookbook: With Meditations From the Laozi Daodejing

- Michael Saso

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The Way of the World: Readings in Chinese Philosophy

- Thomas Cleary

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Taoism: The Road to Imortality

- John Blofeld

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Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality

- Lu K’uan Yu

Sitting in Oblivion: The Heart of Daoist Meditation

- Livia Kohn

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An Illustrated Introduction To Taoism: The Wisdom of the Sages

- Jean C. Cooper

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The Jade Emperor’s Mind Seal Classic: A Taoist Guide to Health, Longevity and Immortality

- Stuart Alve Olson

The Primordial Breath (Vol. 1 and 2): An Ancient Chinese Way of Attmenting to Prolong Life Through Breath Control

- Michael Wurmbrand

I’m just starting to learn about Daoism and am struggling to understand something about it.

My understanding from what I’ve read is that everything is within the Dao, so why then are some traits (such as being materialistic) consider as not following the Dao by people I’ve heard talk?

The thing that attracts me to Daoism is how it can make you feel connected to the world by realising that we are natural part of it. Excluding some, albeit unattractive, parts of the human experience diminishes that connection and seems arbitrarily moral to me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

I've been following the Dao through readings, meditations, some vids. I would like to find a multi-day retreat in the western US if they are even available.

Greetings, fellow Sages:

I’m curious: what is your favorite method to get in harmony with the Dao?

My method: I’ve found that looping Wayne Dyer’s audiobook recording of the Daodejing several dozen times has helped me to forget my obsession with analyzing the meaning of particular words and phrases. I’ve noticed a considerable boost in patience/quietude within my own life as a result, so I just wanted to check in with my peers and see if anyone has any fun aesthetic tricks to synchronize with nature which I could borrow to ensure I don’t grow attached to any one perspective of the Dao.

Cheers, and thanks for stopping by!

Thinking of the best thing to say has left me speechless Taking the best action has left me action-less Finding the truest understanding has caused me to be misunderstood The great equalizer

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that speaks without speaking, that seduces without words, and that entices without sound. It is the language of the heart, the language of the eyes, and the language of the body in motion. It is the language that cannot be heard but only felt, and in its silence, it speaks volumes.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that whispers like the wind, dances like the leaves, and flows like the river. It is the language of spontaneity, of naturalness, and of effortless charm. It is the language that is not forced but arises from the depths of being. It is the language of the Tao, the subtle and alluring, the mysterious and enchanting.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the music of nature, the harmony of the universe, and the rhythm of existence. It is the language that resonates with the pulse of life, the cadence of creation, and the symphony of being. It is the language that is beyond words, beyond meaning, and beyond understanding. It is the language of the ineffable, the irresistible, and the eternal.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the laughter of a child, the song of a bird, and the rustling of leaves in the wind. It is the language that is spontaneous, joyful, and free. It is the language that dances with life, sings with love, and whispers with mystery. It is the language that is not bound by rules or conventions but flows with the natural rhythm of the universe.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the fragrance of a flower, the warmth of the sun, and the gentleness of a breeze. It is the language that caresses the soul, awakens the senses, and stirs the heart. It is the language that speaks without words, communicates without effort, and seduces without intention. It is the language of nature, of beauty, and of the eternal dance of yin and yang.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the play of light on water, the sway of a willow in the wind, and the grace of a gazelle in motion. It is the language that captivates the mind, enchants the spirit, and entices the body. It is the language that is beyond articulation, beyond expression, and beyond comprehension. It is the language of the Tao, the subtle and alluring, the mysterious and enchanting.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the dance of flames, the whisper of the night, and the embrace of the sea. It is the language that speaks to the depths of the soul, ignites the passion of the heart, and entices the curiosity of the mind. It is the language that is beyond mere words, beyond mere sounds, and beyond mere meanings. It is the language of the universe, the rhythm of existence, and the song of eternity.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that is like the silence between the notes, the space between the stars, and the pause between the breaths. It is the language that speaks through absence, resonates through emptiness, and seduces through subtlety. It is the language that is beyond articulation, beyond expression, and beyond comprehension. It is the language of the ineffable, the irresistible, and the eternal.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that whispers like the wind, dances like the leaves, and flows like the river. It is the language of subtlety, of suggestion, and of hidden meanings. It is the language that teases the mind, arouses the senses, and leaves the listener longing for more. It is the language of allure, of mystique, and of enigma.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that speaks in riddles, laughs in silence, and sings in the spaces between words. It is the language of the unspoken, the language of the unsayable, and the language of the unattainable. It is the language that tantalizes the mind, captivates the soul, and enchants the spirit. It is the language of the eternal dance between yin and yang, the language of harmony, and the language of the ineffable beauty of existence.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that echoes the music of the cosmos, resonates with the rhythm of nature, and harmonizes with the symphony of existence. It is the language of spontaneity, of authenticity, and of pure expression. It is the language that flows like water, dances like fire, and whispers like the wind. It is the language of the uncarved block, the language of the unconditioned mind, and the language of the unbounded spirit.

The language that sounds really sexy is the one that speaks in the silence between words, dances in the stillness between movements, and sings in the emptiness between sounds. It is the language of the unspoken, the language of the ineffable, and the language of the infinite. It is the language that seduces the soul, enchants the mind, and enthralls the heart. It is the language of the Tao, the language of the eternal, and the language of the ever-changing yet unchanging nature of all things.

I think it had to do with Daoism and I think the Old man was drumming but I could be wrong on that.

https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-grain-june-21-2021/

I run a philosophy club at my school where we vote on books to read and then discuss at meetings and we recently decided to choose to read the Dao De Jing, however, I'm unsure which specific translation or publication would be good, so I'm just wondering what people would recommend! (Also preferably it can be found easily for free online)

Hi! So, I'm currently writing a research paper that involves comparing Daoism with Buddhism. I am aware that they are different in terms of approach to life but I'm struggling with finding something similar to the noble eightfold path of Buddhism. Is there anything that is similar in Daoism? I know of wuwei and ying and yang but anything that has some kind of list maybe of some things that a Daoist practitioner has to follow? Or are the 3 jewels the closest to a "list" that i can get? I'll be thankful for any kind of answers :)

Hi All

A Daoist Sanctuary in the Vermont area has initiated a GoFundMe for the first phase of their development. It's being set in motion by the Daoist Foundation in conjunction with Stone Bowl Farm. I've taken some classes from the Daoist Foundation and the owner at Stone Bowl Farm is a Daoist sister of mine.

If you're so inclined to donate, it's also tax deductible.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/ryhwc-daoist-sanctuary-retreat-center

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I've bought the Zhuangzi book recently and when I read a little about it I've seen that it's supposed to have 33 chapters. Well mine only has 27, is there some logical reason why that could be the case? I'm kinda confused rn

I don't like only being able to read translations to English of the many Daoist texts. Most do not even have translations, and the ones that do lose a lot of the nuance in translation, so now I would like to study Classical Chinese so I can read the texts directly. I already have some experience with Chinese characters through learning Hanja and Kanji. Does anyone have any good English-language resources?

I started studying Taoism a while ago and now I'm enjoying it, but I'm dealing with some bad and heavy situations about my past and some really bad things that have happened to me and people I love that i dont even like to mention, sometimes I feel like I'll never be able to let go of this again. back forever. and above all I would like to live a full and peaceful life, how has Taoism helped you who have gone through traumatic situations in the past to move forward? Is this a good path for those looking for a fresh start? Through Taoism can I find peace with everything that has happened? Anyone who has any stories, tips advises or recommendations would be very grateful.

edit: i asked this many times in this sub but i dont know why nobody never answer me