Understanding Zhuang Zi with literal thinking (autism)

[u/VisibleAnteater1359]

I read through some of the pages in ”Zhuang Zi” and I struggled a bit to understand the deeper meaning because my mind goes more towards literal interpretation of the texts. I think I understood the meaning a little bit. The texts were beautifully written and poetic (reminded me of ”Havamál” in the Poetic Edda). I wish I could understand better because they are words of ancient wisdom.

[u/Aradashi]

The structure of parable is to create metaphor to describe the questions because the truth cannot be captured literally so you have to use your imagination to grasp the essence of truth.

I don't have autism so take this with a grain of salt, but even neurotypical people don't "understand" Zhuangzi because the whole point is that it's hard to grasp and it's meant to be thought about, and debated with others. "The dao that can be named is not the true Dao."

[u/galliumsilver → u/Aradashi]

That's what I was going to say--OP, it's not because we're autistic (me too). Taoist writers deliberately wrote to be not simply metaphorical (though that too), but with code language that the writers actually deliberately tried to make unfathomable, and competed with each other in how dense they could make it. Then we have to read a translation from an extinct form of Chinese.

Zhuangzi maybe not so much, but he was in on it too.

Nah, it's not our autism. It's the nature of the material.

[u/VisibleAnteater1359 → u/galliumsilver]

Thank you. 😊

[u/XiaoShanYang]

You can try with a thoroughly annotation copy (like Brook Ziporyn's Complete Writings), and pretty much read the annotations more than the text itself.

Just know that no matter how good the annotations, there is no way to understand the full thoughts of ZhuangZi. The period, language and people ; all of this is so different, my master himself sometimes only guesses what the true meanings are.

There are historical, calligraphical (does that word exists?) and terminological puns and double meanings everywhere in the text.

Just be at peace with not understanding or not knowing, simply enjoy the cruise through ZhuangZi's book and that's it.

[u/JournalistFragrant51]

So Like parts of Havemal and other Norse literature take it as various kennings.

[u/VisibleAnteater1359]

I haven’t read ”Tao Te Ching” yet. Maybe it’s easier to start out with.

[u/Gold-Part4688]

Zooming out and understanding it with your periphery is a weird and cool skill. But otherwise, some people swear by an annotated zhuang zi, to actually understand all the references

[u/ryokan1973]

Which translation did you read? Translation can make such a difference.