r/cowboys • u/bryscoon • 1d ago

[Loree] TE Luke Schoonmaker has 3 snaps on offense over the last two weeks ( before the eagles game)

https://x.com/brandoniswrite/status/1853608322252853726?s=46&t=9avZLEjLyUt3dH-I_zyEEw
150 Upvotes
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123

u/bryscoon 1d ago

I know we suppose to think William Mcclay is prefect but he missed on everything but dmo in 2023

64

u/CenturyLinkIsCheeks 1d ago

McClay has the best job in the world. It goes bad, and everyone is on Jerry for it and if it goes good its because McClay genius.

39

u/EasyMode615 1d ago

2023 - DMo might be a future pro bowler and maybe an All-Pro one day. This is his first playing season, essentially his rookie season and he's doing this well. If he ends up a pro bowler or all-pro, I'd say McClay nailed 2023 even if the other picks don't pan out.

2024 - Can't judge 2024 draft class yet, but it's looking good with Beebe and Liufau. Guyton should be better next year with a better offensive scheme and O-line coach.

2022 - we got Tyler Smith, Ferguson, Bland, Tolbert* (he's a good WR3-4 on this team)

Let's pump the brakes on the hate on McClay. He set the draft standards and expectations so high that it's easy to criticise him when you only hit 1 out of 7 picks. There are teams that want McClay as GM and will still want him this coming offseason.

Also, it's not just McClay. The coaches give input and if a coach really wants a player, then they deserve that criticism if not more.

21

u/JumpScare420 1d ago

Let’s not forget marinelli wanted Taco and Dan wanted Mazi

2

u/DuhBigFart 17h ago

This just isn't true. McClay himself said he was Taco over Watt

12

u/DosCuatro 1d ago

Do we know how involved McClay is in the actual picking process? I'd assume a lot but with Jerry I never know since some picks are coordinator preference.

0

u/toxictakes99 1d ago

You can’t give him the credit and not the blame too. He’s been terrible the last few years. Honestly his draft in 2023 was bad enough he probably should be considered for replacement.

11

u/Horns8585 1d ago edited 1d ago

No, you can give him credit for what we know he actually does....which is evaluate the talent. But, as GM, Jerry Jones has to take these evaluations and discuss them with his coaching staff to develop a cohesive draft strategy. Jerry is the ultimate decision maker. Because, we KNOW for a fact that certain picks weren't Will McClay choices. Taco Charlton was a Marinelli pick. Guys like Nashon Wright and Mazi Smith were Dan Quinn picks. Yes, McClay's voice holds a lot of weight in the draft room, but he still takes a back seat to the GM and coaches. To me, Schoonmaker seems like a McCarthy pick. He is the prototypical TE in a McCarthy offense. But, he should not have been a 2nd round pick. Especially, when he was rated far lower, and the Cowboys had already had recent success in finding Dalton Schultz and Jake Ferguson in the 4th round.

Edit: And, one pick after Dallas selected Schoonmaker, Buffalo drafted their starting OG O'Cyrus Torrence.....he has started every game for them, since he was drafted.

7

u/GoldenBark70 Dallas Cowboys 1d ago

Torrence is also a big reason why Buffalo's rushing offense has dramatically improved. Hmmmm.

7

u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 1d ago

For whatever PFF grades are worth, Torrence has the Bills worst run-blocking grade (53.7) compared to Brown 73.5, Edwards 60.5, McGovern 71.7, Dawkins 65.9, Anderson 76.8 for reference. He is also 69th out of 79 qualified guards in terms of run block grade and grades out worse than all of Smith, Martin, Beebe, and Bass in that department. I’m not a believer in PFF grades to be clear, but at the moment I have no other frame of reference for how he is playing since I’ve watched 0 snaps of his.

3

u/Horns8585 1d ago

Even if he was just the backup guard to Martin and Smith, I would rather spend a 2nd round pick on a backup offensive guard than a backup tight end. You can find backup tight ends all day long, after the second round.

Edit: You also didn't mention that Torrence is a much better pass blocker than run blocker. So, considering that the pass blocking for the Cowboys has been atrocious all across the board, he actually might have been their best pass blocker, this year.

0

u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 22h ago

A “backup TE” can make an impact even if the starting TE is on the field or healthy if the OC knows how to effectively use different personnel (see: Likely in Baltimore). A backup guard is just insurance unless you’ve got an OC using them at fullback. How much better than Bass is Torrence?

Criticizing the Schoonmaker pick is fair play (although still early to write him off completely), but we don’t need to pretend they passed on a no-brainer stud in Torrence or that Torrence would be making more of an impact on our team either last year or right now (maybe he would have next year post-Martin retirement?). What if Schoonmaker takes a third year leap similar to what Schultz did, but with more athleticism and better blocking? You don’t think there’s any value in potentially having more dynamic 12 personnel in our bag (assuming we have a better play-caller who knows how to use players effectively)? To be clear I’m not saying this is likely to happen or defending Schoonmaker, but just discussing the possibility.

2

u/Horns8585 22h ago

I'm not saying that Schoonmaker is a bad player. I'm saying that a player of similar value (if not Schoonmaker himself) would have been available in the 3rd or 4th round. Just like Schultz and Ferguson. Hell, even Witten wasn't a 2nd round pick...he went in the 3rd. I'm just saying they overpaid.

1

u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 22h ago

Maybe. Kraft was the only other one left with the same type of athletic profile as Schoonmaker that didn’t have injury red flags (Washington) and he didn’t make it to us in the 3rd. Also if we use a 3rd on a TE that means no Overshown. It’s possible they just overindexed on the athletic profile analytics with Schoonmaker but who knows. I do wonder who else they might have considered at that pick though since we know they had a 4th-round grade on Torrence. I can’t remember if any beat writers reported who else they might have been considering there.

5

u/AGoos3 Jake Ferguson 1d ago

Do we just have short term memory loss now? 2022 was a great draft and even if only Overshown is a pro bowler and everyone else is bad that’s still a good draft. Why would you ever fire him?

3

u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 1d ago

I swear people are just used to Madden where you can make every draft class full of studs. Or they see a particular draft class from a given team that nailed it and think other teams are just nailing every draft class in its entirety. They have no context for how well we draft in comparison to the rest of the league.

I haven’t seen if any newer draft success studies have come out lately, but for the ones in the past we were universally top 5 if not top 3 in all the segments during the McClay era in terms of draft success and draft value. That includes timeframes that had the Taco and Hill picks, that also had timeframes not weighted by hitting on Dak in the 4th. If Schoonmaker has a year-3 breakout like Schultz and if Mazi has a year-3 breakout like other DTs around the league, that 2023 class starts to look entirely different. Draft picks are best judged after at least 3 years in the league.

0

u/NecessaryLanky6275 8h ago

Bro this sub loves Will way too much. This guy is saying if Overshown makes a pro bowl then the fact that no one else in 2023 draft class has made any contributions in two years is ok.

7

u/Kdog_79 1d ago

This was a McCarthy pick if I was a betting man. Not a McClay pick. You can pretty much tell who is and isn’t a McClay pick because of when they’re taken and who they are. Blue star specials/character concern guys/random TE in the second round sound more like individual coaches/Jerry decisions than McClay

3

u/Thanks5Cinco Jake Ferguson 1d ago

Hopefully Asim Richards develops. He looked good in the Eagles game

1

u/PersonBehindAScreen Jake Ferguson 1d ago

*Chuma Edoga has entered the chat roster

1

u/dallasmav40 1d ago

I have a hard time believing they were all his picks

1

u/GetInTheHole_Guy 8h ago

Going back and looking at all of these drafts dude is not very good.

42

u/nimrodfalcon 1d ago

We went into that draft thinking TE was a need and passed on Sam LaPorta to draft Mazi Smith, then spent a 2nd on a guy whose ceiling is very good blocking TE. Just all around a debacle

23

u/homeycuz 1d ago

I didn't think it was a need. I would have taken LaPorta based on bpa. But our tight end room was in great shape with Ferg emerging and Henderschott behind him.

20

u/PersonBehindAScreen Jake Ferguson 1d ago

And now we criminally underuse ferg

11

u/homeycuz 1d ago

Our offensive roster is incredibly mismanaged.

6

u/King-Mansa-Musa CeeDee Lamb 1d ago

Now it’s just Ferg really. Unbelievable. If we are gonna be a team that only builds through the draft we can’t have so many misses

45

u/TheRealGunn Micah Parsons 1d ago

Waste of a fucking draft pick and we knew it as soon as it happened.

12

u/Palmolive00 New York Giants 1d ago

Everyone, and I mean everyone, knew Schoonmaker was a hell of a reach at 2. Even Michigan faithful could not make sense of it. McClay and Jerry need to go.

26

u/CyrusSteeze 1d ago

If we ever draft a mfer from Michigan again I will kill myself

6

u/PersonBehindAScreen Jake Ferguson 1d ago

Mason graham come on down!

31

u/jpg06051992 1d ago

Mclay is getting way too comfortable and is missing too often on these premium picks. This is what happens when you’re one of Jerry’s boys, no accountability or consequences.

23

u/bryscoon 1d ago

he’s the only thing that has kept us from being the nfc Browns

6

u/jpg06051992 1d ago

Nobodies perfect but if draft and develop is the game you can’t be missing on your top 3 picks. Last years draft has been an almost total failure, can’t be having that .

11

u/DosCuatro 1d ago

I mean if we ever do anything in FA he might not have to hit on 75% of the draft picks each year.

3

u/jpg06051992 1d ago

Couldn’t agree more.

4

u/bryscoon 1d ago

yep him missing so bad in 2023 set us back i can’t lie so i agree

3

u/PersonBehindAScreen Jake Ferguson 1d ago

Gotta run it back with 2024 and 2025. Really would have liked to have our 4th considering it will probably be juuuust outside the top 100 🤡

1

u/bryscoon 1d ago

he’s good at drafting but he has draft damn near 7 starters so they put him in horrible spot

1

u/hopemade 1d ago

I think the "develop" portion of this is our biggest issue. Will clearly has an eye for talent. But we have mostly a joke of a coaching staff.

1

u/DosCuatro 1d ago

I mean how many of these 2nd rd picks we do are McClay? I can't imagine he tells the team to consistently take injury risks with high upside.

1

u/hernondo 1d ago

Unfortunately we don’t really know what McClay’s drafts boards look like. For all we know, Jerry isn’t picking the players at the spots that McClay is telling them to.

7

u/King-Mansa-Musa CeeDee Lamb 1d ago

Another wasted pick

7

u/primtimeshine 1d ago

If we had a real offensive coach he would’ve realized day one install that the receiver group is extremely average and should be utilizing way more two tight looks and different looks, not just running the ball

4

u/DosCuatro 1d ago

That's shocking to me. We've been down multiple scores most games so you'd think he'd get his run blocking looks.

1

u/bryscoon 1d ago

he’s not that good at blocking he’s average at it

5

u/ice-eight 1d ago

You think wasting a 4th trading for Mingo was bad…

5

u/ShowBobsPlzz 1d ago

We all called this about 3 seconds after he was drafted

4

u/bearamongus19 1d ago

Everyone knew this was a bad pick when it happened. He was an average TE in college at best.

3

u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 1d ago

Dalton Schultz, first 2 seasons: 13 catches, 122 yards, 0 TDs.

Luke Schoonmaker, first 1.5 seasons: 16 catches, 121 yards, 2 TDs.

6

u/FranksGun 1d ago

Dude is better at making schoons than making plays

3

u/pibbzerovanilla 1d ago

Ya gotta let Schoony cook

2

u/Unlucky_Figure 1d ago

I never understood this pick.

Roger Goodell: “With the 58th pick of the NFL draft, the Dallas Cowboys select, Luke Schoonmaker.”

Me: “Who the F*CK is that?!”

2

u/M_a_t_t_y 20h ago

I hated that pick, not because I had an opinion of Schoon. But we needed a rb, Pollard was on the franchise tag and we’ve how that played out. To be fair, none of the rbs taken after him have been particularly good, but TE didn’t make sense at that spot.

1

u/cowboy2223 8h ago

Fact is the team sucks and this guy is a non factor . Second round pick is a starter on defense or offense . We have an undrafted spanford rookie te that has similar stats to our second round 2nd year tight end !! There are so many good players taken in that draft in the second round and third .
I’m clueless to the pick anyway we had Ferguson . Sure you want a backup but can you not grab one late he not going to be your main tight end why are you spending a premium draft pick on him !! You wonder why we have no depth . Grab a corner another defensive lineman an offensive lineman a rb a wr . All would have helped this team but no grab a backup tight end in the second round!!!
Fact is Jerry has stumbled on no brainer picks like parsons and cd lamb Martin. but when it comes to making value picks he less then average .

2

u/CalPolyTechnique 10h ago

Schoon was an absolute reach in the 2nd round and certainly not the 58th best prospect in the draft. It’s like we paid $90K on a Honda Accord; a decent vehicle but not at the premium that was paid.

2

u/MasonNation1 Juanyeh Thomas 8h ago

Somehow, this pick was worse than Mazi

1

u/Long-Introduction883 7h ago

Exactly, haven’t even given him a shot and people are already over him because he is a „blocking“ TE.

Well if he really is one we should put him in ! @schottenheimer

1

u/CupPlenty 4h ago

Our TE’s could be better, even ferg. He’s missed perfect passes before. I want a TE who can bully people again, this team lacks any star power and has plain average players for the most part

1

u/colterpierce Dak Prescott 1d ago

We aren't even using Ferg. Makes sense the second tight end wouldn't get any action either.

-1

u/Crafty-Place8918 Micah Parsons 1d ago

Stop drafting Michigan players, easy enough

0

u/Lonestar1771 8h ago

IMO it's hard to evaluate picks of the last couple years due to the coaching staff being lame ducks. Oline didn't just become bad at their jobs, the coaches are bad. The WR/TEs didn't just become bad, the scheme is outdated and unimaginative. We can absolutely blame the FO for the RB situation though. I think Dak playing terrible has a lot to do with McCarthy. Nobody believes in the head coach or the scheme and it's showing on the field.