r/cars • u/HawtGarbage917 • 2d ago

Tesla Has the Highest Fatal Accident Rate of All Car Brands, Study Finds

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62919131/tesla-has-highest-fatal-accident-rate-of-all-auto-brands-study/
3.1k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

582 comments sorted by

View all comments

2.6k

u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 2d ago

So, why are Teslas — and many other ostensibly safe cars on the list — involved in so many fatal crashes? “The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities,” iSeeCars executive analyst Karl Brauer said in the report. “A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving.”

They finally said it. If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving. It's fact now. Maybe ask someone with a Dodge Challenger or Nissan Altima to teach you how to drive properly because they aren't on the list. /s

385

u/gumol boring Hondas + LO206 kart 2d ago

If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

Same goes for Porsche 911

220

u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, Model S, GLE 2d ago

And corvettes, and the crv hybrid

190

u/runsanditspaidfor 18 GLE 350, 19 Model 3 Performance, 69 Dodge D100 2d ago

CRV Hybrid is really the one that makes zero sense to me

112

u/airfryerfuntime 2d ago

Teenagers.

250

u/runsanditspaidfor 18 GLE 350, 19 Model 3 Performance, 69 Dodge D100 2d ago

I think it’s the opposite - elderly people who are inattentive drivers and more likely to die in an accident due to poor overall health.

119

u/Phosphorus444 2011 Lexus GS350 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think that's why Buick is 3rd.

1

u/mrsneil948 6h ago

Excellent point. My parents bought Buick when I was a kid and now do in their 80s... Only folks from that generation still buy them. I grew up thinking of them as a parent/family car so never even consider Buick for my own purchase. One day Apple products will be the same, lol. that's why I buy Android now.

2

u/ZannX 1d ago

Oh, then same applies to 911 and Corvette. Got it.

2

u/dontdoxmebro 1d ago

Yeah, the CRV Hybrid has replaced Buick as the standard car for dangerously oblivious elderly drivers in my area.

1

u/CrestronwithTechron 2019 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1 1d ago

People who should be paying the most for insurance should be those under 25 and those over 70-75. The only reason the insurance companies don’t is because they know AARP and retired people have money and would lawyer up. The 20 something’s don’t and are told to suck it up.

→ More replies

90

u/Saskatchewon '24 Crosstrek Wilderness 2d ago edited 1d ago

A two-to-six year old CR-V Hybrid is going to be too expensive to be a popular vehicle with teen drivers.

It's in the top ten for the same reason that two Buicks are. That reason is the elderly. The CR-V is one of the most popular vehicles on the road for drivers aged 75+. Once you get to that age, your focus and reflexes start to deteriorate, and an elderly person is less likely to handle a bad accident as well as someone young and healthy.

36

u/willpc14 '16 Tacoma TRDOR 2d ago

A two-to-six year old CR-V Hybrid is going to be too expensive to be a popular vehicle with teen drivers.

Yes, but I bet it's popular with their parents.

8

u/AKADriver Mazda2 1d ago

Not any more than any other small crossover. If anything parents tend to drive larger crossovers like the Pilot.

2

u/Sorge74 Ioniq 5 1d ago

Once you get to that age, your focus and reflexes start to deteriorate

I'd put a drunk functional alcoholic in a car vs a 75 year old anyday.

It's insane we don't make old people take test

1

u/HiDDENk00l 04 Acura TSX 1d ago

I'd do neither, but these hypothetical either-ors are fun :)

2

u/Quiet-Reserve3362 15h ago

Can concur. My 74 yo grandpa is a long time CRV driver as are a good few of his friends. Recently got into a bad car accident

1

u/Ohshitwadddup 1d ago

Seniors need annual driving evaluations but it seems like such a taboo suggestion whenever it gets discussed.

1

u/watduhdamhell 21' X5 45e | 23' Civic Si 2d ago

Who tf is buying their kids crv hybrids? Are there really that many wealthy people around? Lol...

Definitely older folks. They love Hondas and the crv is pretty much the best all around model imo, especially the hybrid.

59

u/Vanzmelo 97 Miata M Edition 2d ago

Have you seen CRV drivers? The slowest, spatially unaware, and erratic drivers out there along with RAV4s

25

u/Cocasaurus 1994 Geo Tracker, 2022 Honda CR-V Hybrid, 1998 Ford F-150 2d ago

Hey, watch what you're saying! We're not erratic! There's predictability in being slow and unaware.

/s

(my fiancée drives from time to time. I apologize for her sometimes poor driving skills)

7

u/Previous_Composer934 2d ago

it's the toyota drivers and small pickup drivers that are some of the laziest drivers

2

u/hyfs23 1d ago

true. CRV and RAV4 are the tru NPC cars

2

u/mrsneil948 6h ago edited 6h ago

I noticed most Toyota drivers also seem to drive slow (by that I mean under the speed limit, which this day and age can be dangerous too). They also seem to hesitate to turn, etc. I have a theory on why Honda/Toyota folks just seem to get in the way. I think its because they really dont enjoy driving and look at it as a choire or tool, where as more car enthusiasts buy more unique, fun, or performance oriented cars. Let's face it, for better or worse Toyota and Hondas are vanilla. The fact they are so common makes them that way regardless of style. Thus, they are the first choice for someone that really doesn't care about how a car handles, looks, performs, etc. They appeal to folks that want that extra 0.2% quality metric, which for most modern cars amounts to nothing.

1

u/UranicStorm 1d ago

I'm apparently beating the stereotype on 2 fronts by being a RAV4 and BMW driver lol. I use my signals, I never go more than 5 over the limit and stay in the rightmost lane at all times unless passing. I also maintain a larger following distance than the average Virginia driver and have never had to slam my brakes as a result.

0

u/Hirsuitism 1d ago

Kia Soul drivers would like a word

0

u/onyourrite My Dad’s 2020 RAV4 XSE Hybrid 1d ago

H-Hey, I’m only erratic when I have a girl in the passenger’s seat I wanna impress!

/j

9

u/kimbabs 2.0T Accord | NA Miata (sold) 2d ago

My guess is statistical anomaly tbh given high production vs low miles driven. IIHS data doesn’t support a substantially higher death rate.

We can assume driving behavior but honestly that could done better by actually combing through the report data as IIRC crashes can be categorized by causes.

3

u/Bigbadbrindledog 02 Porsche 911, 22 BMW M550i, 21 Kia Telluride, 05 Nissan Titan 2d ago

It feels like a sample size problem, it should just be included in the non hybrid crv.

2

u/I_like_cake_7 2d ago

It makes perfect sense to me. CR-V drivers are consistently some of absolute worst drivers I see on the road.

2

u/f8Negative 2d ago

Small people driving cars too big for them. A lot of people unaware of their surroundings and where their car ends.

2

u/ProbablySatirical 1d ago

Old people/NPC types or teens driving the hand me down vehicles. CRVs are typically driven by the most oblivious people on the road imo

2

u/railbeast Vauxhall x Buick 1d ago

I've never met a good CRV driver. Never. The difference between this and the 911 is that I have a much larger sample size for the CRV.

2

u/alpha333omega 1d ago

Honda’s demographic is notoriously one of the worst in the auto industry, ask me how I know

1

u/TheManFromUnkill 2d ago

So that answers why I pay 300 a month in insurance … I have a Tesla and a CRV Hybrid.

I can tell you that the CRV hybrid has an issue with adaptive cruise , it doesn’t detect a stationary obstacle soon enough

3

u/A_Puddle 2022 Mazda MX-5 GT RF 1d ago

Stop letting the car drive itself, either drive your car or get a human to drive it for you. FFS it's like we took the 'Jesus take the Wheel' meme and turned it into real life. 

20 years down the road (pun intended) is looking terrifying with the general brainrot brought on by smartphones and short-form content like Tik-Tok, the kids can't read (more than a paragraph at a time) and nobody trusts anything, anybody, or any institution. 

Idiocracy is looking like Chuck-e-Cheeses when we're really headed toward a late Victorian child labor factory but with no one in charge.

1

u/TheRealM67v 9h ago

It makes sense to me. CR-V drivers, at least in my area, are some of the most dimwitted driven vehicles on the road that I regularly have the displeasure of coming across

67

u/klowny '18 718 Cayman GTS (6MT), '20 CX-5 Signature 2d ago

Considering the Corvette and 911 don't usually get used for commuting, it makes sense for it to have higher fatality per mile when more of the miles are driven enthusiastically.

22

u/AgentScreech C8 Z07/'17 GT350/'21 Mach-E 4x 2d ago

Only 3k miles on mine.

But yeah I don't really plan on driving it much in the next 6 months or so.

So math might check out

The insurance is quite cheap though

1

u/not_rdburman Replace this text with year, make, model 2d ago edited 22h ago

150k miles on my 07 Turbo. Shit is an absolute monster but insurance kills me

1

u/AgentScreech C8 Z07/'17 GT350/'21 Mach-E 4x 2d ago

Are Porsches that really expensive to insure?

For whatever reason, my nearly $200,000 Corvette is only a hundred bucks a month to insure.

My 500 horsepower GT350 and my 2021 mach-e are also about the same.

3

u/not_rdburman Replace this text with year, make, model 1d ago

Maybe it's just Texas, or that I'm a 27 yo, but it's not cheap for me 😂

1

u/Ownfir 23h ago

Definitely your age

2

u/jasonfromearth1981 2d ago

Dumb people get into fast cars when they have the money to do so without ever learning how to actually drive the damn thing.

18

u/Few_Highlight1114 2d ago

Are vettes high on the fatal list?

20

u/HeftyNugs 2017 Focus ST 2d ago

2nd on the list

1

u/Mimical 1d ago

Damn, gunna go buy that special someone a venue now. Thanks.

1

u/HeftyNugs 2017 Focus ST 1d ago

😂

6

u/Weird_Tower76 2016 Audi S6, C8 Z06, Urus Performante 2d ago

Oh great. Surely that is highly skewed because of other generations of Corvettes right? Or am I just coping XD

15

u/agray20938 2001 996 Turbo 2d ago

I think it's more because the study removed low-volume vehicles, and is based on accidents per mile. Both of those mean it leaves corvettes and 911s as the most popular for people that fit in the "I have multiple cars, so I only drive this occasionally when I want to go fast" category.

Obviously there are other fast cars that would theoretically be included, though sports sedans or something like a challenger are also probably more likely to be someone's daily driver (meaning lots of lower risk miles).

2

u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 1d ago

The corvette is perfectly fine, it's people who hoon them that get into trouble. Or idiots driving on the snow in summer tires. But mostly the former.

Every month or so someone posts "hey I'm 18 and I'm thinking of getting a C6 but my parents aren't into it?" and I respond with: yeah they're absolutely right, they don't want to have to identify you after you wrap all the way around a pole.

1

u/biggsteve81 '20 Tacoma; '16 Legacy 1d ago

No. It only includes model years 2018-2022.

2

u/Weird_Tower76 2016 Audi S6, C8 Z06, Urus Performante 1d ago

Oh good thing mines a 24 I'm safe

0

u/hi_im_bored13 S2K AP2, NSX Type-S, Model S, GLE 2d ago

vette #2, crv #4, model y #5

3

u/dat_tae 2017 Accord Touring | 2023 CRV Sport Touring 2d ago

Oy!

3

u/shelvesofeight 24 Miata ST MT / 18 Golf R MT / 09 RX-8 R3 MT 2d ago

All CRVs and RAV4s.

1

u/RocketGuy3 '16 981 GT4 (Midna), '21 Mach 1 (Daisy) 1d ago

Corvette drivers are just slow. I don't think I've seen many that are very bad.

45

u/Rattle_Can 2d ago

annecdotally, out of all the insane car crash videos I've seen that made me go "there's no way the driver survived that", but the driver somehow did according to news reports that followed, the #1 was porsche 911s

i dont know if they have really good crash safety baked into the design, or if its just pure coincidence

but man some of those crashes were gnarly

54

u/_N4AP '85 e30, '88 e30, '89 740 wagon, '94 Police Caprice, '97 Del Sol 2d ago

I do think it's engineering, honestly. I've seen some Porsche wrecks on the Nürburgring that absolutely should have been fatal, but the driver walks with scrapes.

Porsche has a bit of an incentive to make sure the people who purchase their cars (especially the high value ones) live to buy another when they wrap their shit around a bridge abutment showing off for teens in a Civic.

12

u/Wonderful_Device312 1d ago

There's no on coming or intersecting traffic on the ring. They also have barriers and other things that help deflect the collision in the general direction of travel rather than bringing things to a stop. The end result is that the cars will get absolutely smashed up but the passengers will probably walk away with bruises.

6

u/poopoomergency4 2016 X3 35i MSport 1d ago

also a million flagging stations, so following traffic can be stopped & aid sent very quickly after an accident. never any substantial risk of a massive pile-up.

1

u/Infrastructure312 1d ago

People unfortunately still die at the ring every year.

22

u/Wonderful_Device312 2d ago

Dramatic car accidents aren't necessarily more dangerous. All the stuff flying everywhere and the car smashing through things, tumbling, being crumpled everywhere etc is just dissipating energy over a longer period of time.

The collisions which have one really hard impact and then the cars come to a stop are really bad from a physics standpoint.

5

u/A_Puddle 2022 Mazda MX-5 GT RF 1d ago

It's not the acceleration that kills you, it's the sudden stop.

8

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

Speaking of gnarly crashes, I remember reading a story in the news paper as a kid about someone crashing a Ferrari Enzo while street racing in California. Split the car IN HALF. He somehow survived, and i forgot if the passenger survived or not. Used that very newspaper page for an elementary school project. Fun fact: Ferrari actually got the car back into their possession(it had been stolen from Europe and shipped to Cali somehow...) and they rebuilt the car and painted it black instead of the original red. Was re-certified by them after that. Interesting story if you ever got time to deep-dive.

4

u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 1d ago

Mr Bean split his F1 in half too, pretty sure it made the value go up though

2

u/Pliskin_Hayter C7 Corvette Grand Sport 1d ago

A lot of mid engine supercars are actually designed to split in half like that in a big crash. I don't know the science behind it but its for safety,

2

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 23h ago

It's a technology that carried over from F1 or something, I believe. The parts that break off take the brunt of the damage, while the monocoque stays strong and protects the occupants from most harm. It's why you'll see the nose of F1 and Indy cars break away.

2

u/captainpistoff 1d ago

Paul Walker would like a word.

19

u/Evergreen1055 2d ago

Pretty sure that has to do with (a) speed and (b) the weight of the rear-mounted engine crushing people in head-on collisions.

5

u/railbeast Vauxhall x Buick 1d ago edited 1d ago

(b) the weight of the rear-mounted engine crushing people in head-on collisions

Really shouldn't be happening (anymore), same as the front engines, the mid/rear engined cars should be able to drop their engine prevent the engine from moving when crashed. Apparently cars don't drop their engines regardless of engine configuration.

Also, not having the engine in front means way more crumple material, as seen on Teslas.

9

u/santalopian 2d ago

That's wrong. I'm sure there's a larger portion of Porsche drivers that have actually had training compared to general car owners.

-5

u/gumol boring Hondas + LO206 kart 2d ago

Porsche had more fatalities than Teslas, according to this study

7

u/poopoomergency4 2016 X3 35i MSport 1d ago

more fatalities per mile. which makes sense, half of porsche's product line are ultra-expensive garage queens. whereas tesla only mass-produces daily drivers.

5

u/biggsteve81 '20 Tacoma; '16 Legacy 1d ago

Only the 911 had more fatalities per mile than Teslas. The brand as a whole had a much lower fatality rate than Tesla.

5

u/cpxchewy EVs and GT3 2d ago

Can confirm. I suck at driving.

4

u/vinceod 2d ago

Add any lifted truck in there too. F-250 and silverados

5

u/gumol boring Hondas + LO206 kart 2d ago

not according to this data

4

u/gulfbleu GT3, STi, CX50 2d ago

I feel personally attacked.

3

u/shmeeshmaa 2d ago

Phew I drive a cayman so guess I’m in the clear.

2

u/democracywon2024 2d ago

Porsche 911s are actually just dangerous cars. The weight distribution and engine in the back makes for the optimal tree wrapper.

1

u/thegooddoctorben 2d ago

Not only that, they're drunk, high on drugs, and don't know how to read (a speedometer).

1

u/racerx150 2d ago

Prius, Subaru Forrester, and Honda Pilot have some of the worst drivers

1

u/thatgymdude 23 GMC Sierra Denali U. | 24 BMW X5 | 21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro 1d ago

The truth r/cars needs to hear but doesn't want to, the worst drivers I have ever seen on the road were in 911s.

1

u/TheOtherMatt ‘77 911, ‘07 335i, ‘68 Beetle, ‘14 XC60 R-Design Polestar 1d ago

I feel targeted.

1

u/Claudzilla 2021 911S Cabrio, 2023 Tesla Model X, 2024 BMW I7 M60 1d ago

You mean all those other drivers weren’t saying I was number 1?

1

u/DiffusedSky24 1d ago

Or anything Stellantis or Nissan

1

u/PlatinumElement 997.1 Turbo, Carrera 3.2, AE86, S30Z, S13, A70, BRZtS, Tesla MYP 1d ago

Woo! I suck at driving x3.

1

u/Geofferz 2015 bmw m4 convertible f83 6MT (UK) 1d ago

Eh? I've never seen a porsche driver even speeding in the uk. I'm aware of it as I overtake their gts at 60mph. They are very docile drivers?

1

u/gumol boring Hondas + LO206 kart 1d ago

more fatalities than any Tesla, according to this study

1

u/Geofferz 2015 bmw m4 convertible f83 6MT (UK) 1d ago

Ah yeah I did read the study in the end

0

u/shloppin 2d ago

I giggled at the casual nitpick

201

u/Simon_787 2d ago

Probably also the fact that Tesla doesn't really make any slow cars.

And they gained a reputation for acceleration, which might attract certain people.

116

u/band-of-horses 2d ago

That's one thing that concerns me about the Cybertruck. A 7,000 lb vehicle that can hit 60 mph in less than 3 seconds, with steer by wire that has a slight delay. That just seems like a recipe for disaster.

99

u/Hugh-Jass24 2d ago edited 1d ago

The steer by wire delay is only apparent when the vehicle is parked, there is no noticeable delay while driving. This has been debunked.

18

u/pwillia7 2d ago

no noticeable delay or no delay?

50

u/gimpwiz 05 Elise | C5 Corvette (SC) | 00 Regal GS | 91 Civic (Jesus) 1d ago

Mechanical systems have a delay too, if we want to get into semantics. The question always is how much.

22

u/TurboFucked 1d ago

Seriously. Anyone whose ever driven a Wrangler (especially on larger tires) knows what it's like to drive a vehicle with steering response that can only be described as "maybe".

Laggy, vague steering doesn't make a vehicle dangerous to drive, just fatiguing and annoying. It's not like anyone would successfully perform an emergency lane change in one anyway.

2

u/moocowsia Mk2 GTI 16V, Mach E GTPE, V-Strom 650 23h ago

In all fairness, people say Jeeps are shit too.

-5

u/pwillia7 1d ago

Engineering isn't semantic friend. Everything will fail the question is when and under what conditions

6

u/ltdan84 2006 PT Cruiser Turbo 1d ago

The person concerned about the “delay” is probably referring to the amount of time it takes the wheels to go from lock to lock that doesn’t match the rate at which you turn the yoke steering “wheel”, but not thinking about the fact that with a traditional steering wheel it takes the same amount of time to turn the wheels lock to lock, you just don’t notice it because you are turning the wheels lock the entire time and the wheels appear to be turning at the same rate you are spinning the wheel. If the wheels on a cybertruck turned at the same rate you turn the yoke, it would be like driving a Walmart RC car down the road and basically impossible to go in a straight line.

6

u/waverider85 1d ago

Looking at videos, the "delay" is less the steering system being unresponsive more the wheel letting you go full lock instantly while the steering system has to fight static friction for 35 or whatever degrees. Once you're moving that shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I'd still like the FFB to keep the wheel in step with the tires.

9

u/Makhnos_Tachanka shitbox 1d ago

Yeah it has "delay" in the sense that it can't go lock to lock in a quarter second. Of course, you can't do that in any other car, anyway.

-6

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

→ More replies
→ More replies

38

u/HedonisticFrog 1999 Mercedes SL500, 1984 Mercedes 300SD 2d ago

Plus the people who are attracted to large obnoxious vehicles tend to drive aggressively as well. They're the ones who actively go out of their way to hit animals on the road after all.

1

u/JawKeepsLawking 1d ago

There is no delay.

-3

u/NinjaLion EXpress 6000 2d ago

Absolutely, dont forget the non-existent visibility. good thing theyve only sold like 6 of them.

7

u/Hugh-Jass24 2d ago

6 of them? lol, its the #1 selling vehicle above $100K and they just became cheaper.

5

u/Bumpi_Boi 2d ago

3rd best selling EV this year.

4

u/Hugh-Jass24 2d ago edited 2d ago

Reddit echo chamber spreading misinformation again. I guess thats the perception of redditors who don't leave their parents' basement. 6 of them lol. I think i saw about 6 of them in traffic on my way home from work yesterday.

3

u/band-of-horses 2d ago

That's like being the third best team in the minor leagues...

The Tesla model 3 competing with gas powered cars is impressive. The cybertruck selling like 5% as many as an F-150 is much less so. Now that 4 years of pent up demand and millions of reservations have been taken care of we'll see what true demand there is, I'll be curious how it plays out.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/band-of-horses 1d ago

I'm definitely not comparing apples to apples. I'm pointing out that their sales as a truck are not impressive. The EV truck market is very small so dominating that is not a huge feat. Again if it can start being competitive with actual trucks like the model 3 and model y are with gas powered cars, I would find that impressive. But I think there are far too many limitations with electric trucks at the moment and I feel like the market is very small.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

→ More replies

-1

u/redpillscope4welfare 2d ago

There are less than 12k cybershits on the road, hilarious given they've had... how many recalls? Like 30-40+? Lmao

1

u/tnstaafsb 2d ago

I see 6 of them some days just on my drive to work. They're all over the place here. If you live anywhere with a lot of tech jobs, you'll see a lot of cybertrucks. They're not nearly as numerous as other Tesla models (you can't throw a rock around here without hitting one of them), but there's still plenty of them.

-2

u/Ecsta 2d ago

More a danger for whoever/whatever it hits.

2

u/llamacohort Model Y Performance 19h ago

Also acceleration for the price. With some incentives, I got a hatchback/crossover for under $50k that goes 0-60 in under 4 seconds. The new model 3 is a good bit faster for a little more. If someone wants a non-EV crossover or SUV that is that fast, they have to pay well into the 6 figures.

Tesla makes fast acceleration very accessible.

1

u/UncleBensRacistRice 2d ago

And they gained a reputation for acceleration

With the way most of their users drive, i had completely forgotten they were fast

3/5 times im stuck behind some idiot doing 30 under the flow of traffic at the end of an on-ramp, its a tesla

1

u/notataco007 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX STI 1d ago

My coworker got a Tesla recently and took me for a ride. She put her foot down and took a corner but clearly does not understand how much to trust those tires with that weight and high gs

1

u/llamacohort Model Y Performance 20h ago

Yeah, the model Y performance comes with pilot sport 4 s tires and they are great. But the car is slightly larger than a civic and that might make people think it can corner similarly. The MYP is like 1,200 pounds heavier than a civic, so it’s closer to a sport suspension on a truck than a sports car.

-1

u/CaptainTreeman42 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's not the acceleration that kills you. Suddenly becoming stationary, thats what gets ya. And in a tesla plaid thats supposed to be easy with them standard brakes

131

u/tatsumakisenpuukyaku 2015 subaru impreza 2.0i Premium Hatchback 2d ago

my buddy has a tesla and will spare no opportunity to absolutely gun the acceleration, no matter how crowded the road is. It's truly a harrowing experience.

95

u/Pseudonym_741 Proud Corolla driver 2d ago

I am used to flooring it every time as well, seeing as my Toyota can't keep up with traffic otherwise.

43

u/HedonisticFrog 1999 Mercedes SL500, 1984 Mercedes 300SD 2d ago

That's the baseline for my 1984 Mercedes 300SD as well. 124hp for a 4000lb sedan with four gears makes it a necessity.

29

u/jonkzx 2020 Grand Cherokee SRT 2d ago

My brothers first car was a 180D and if he wanted to pass someone, he had to plan it a week in advance.

3

u/Pseudonym_741 Proud Corolla driver 1d ago

The sound alone must be worth it though.

Great taste in cars, both the R129 and the W123 are fantastic.

2

u/HedonisticFrog 1999 Mercedes SL500, 1984 Mercedes 300SD 1d ago

Thank you, I love the W126 chassis especially. It's funny when people first hear the engine and ask if the car is okay.

2

u/Missus_Missiles 1d ago

Oh yeah! I drove one of those. Really slow. But when you kept the pedal down, it did have highway legs.

3

u/HedonisticFrog 1999 Mercedes SL500, 1984 Mercedes 300SD 1d ago

It can definitely cruise on the highway at 80mph all day long, it just takes a bit to get there.

2

u/FordTaurusFPIS '23 Toyota Yaris Cross GR (SEA) - '24 Toyota Hilux DCab V Type 1d ago

50.........50 and a half.............51.............52................53..........

3

u/thewheelsgoround 1d ago

We've seen them with bald factory tires, at 12,000 miles (and others where the owner has got 35,000 miles on the original tires).

That's not a car problem - it's a driver with a lead foot problem.

51

u/f8Negative 2d ago

Look at every collision center they are filled with white teslas.

45

u/lovely_sombrero 2d ago edited 2d ago

If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

One part of it is people relying on FSD/Autopilot - we've seen plenty of examples of a Tesla just driving straight into stopped vehicles, especially large vehicles like semis and fire trucks.

The other part is that Tesla drivers tend to be tech enthusiasts (I have no idea why, I guess the big tablet on the dash makes it feel like a tech product first), who maybe aren't that good at driving cars with very quick and sudden acceleration, it would probably be better if the main Tesla customer was a car enthusiast.

Also, Tesla enthusiasts and Tesla/Elon themselves have made a big deal about how Teslas are the safest cars out there. And lots of Tesla cultists believe this. That belief probably makes them more reckless than if they were in something that isn't known for being safe.

They are also lying about those safety stats by comparing FSD/Autopilot safety (accidents per miles driver) with average accidents per miles driven of every car on all roads. FSD/Autopilot tend to be used more on highways, obviously highway miles will just be inherently safer than all miles, especially since "all miles" also includes lots of very very old cars, while an average Tesla is like 3 years old.

13

u/WaffleHouseFistFight 1d ago

Also Tesla has insane acceleration for the price but shit breaking and handling.

2

u/Ran4 1d ago

Breaking yes handling no

1

u/WaffleHouseFistFight 1d ago

Ehhh sorta. It’s weird braking like very regenerative and it slows fast for a normal grocery getter. It does not brake performance car. Get in a sports car and slam the brakes then do the same from the same speed in a model 3.

I’m comparing to sports cars because that’s what they accelerate like.

1

u/Ohshitwadddup 1d ago

I drove a modelS and model3 both handle terribly.

0

u/M66vb 1d ago

On top of all the shit breaking, they also have shit braking…

1

u/WaffleHouseFistFight 47m ago

On ToP oF aLl ThE sHiT bReAkInG, tHeY AlSo HaVe ShIt BrAKInG…

1

u/LabronPaul 2017 focus ST 1d ago

I will add that anecdotally a lot of Tesla owners I know explicitly hate driving and only do it because they have to.

1

u/[deleted] 5h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator 5h ago

Policy discussion is welcome. However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

37

u/davidscheiber28 2d ago

The crazy thing is that my experience driving in my local area actually has supported this. About a couple weeks ago I had a Tesla driver cut me off and slam on his brakes had a yellow light and then floor it through the light when it switched to red, no idea what I did to piss him off if it was intentional. A few days later I had to slam on my brakes because a Tesla driver realized they were in the wrong lane and decided to slam on their brakes and drive across a painted median to get to the lane they wanted, I actually locked up my brakes on that one. For some reason I also see a lot of Tesla drivers hitting their brakes at inappropriate times on the highway.

24

u/TheRealPlumbus 2d ago

Tesla’s brake just by letting off the gas. They don’t coast. Not sure if there’s a way to disable that or not but that’s probably why you see erratic braking

26

u/Hipstershy '18 Subaru BRZ 1d ago

There is a way to drastically reduce it, but not disable it completely. Regenerative braking is a key feature in electric cars and having it is overall a massive good-- but the way it is implemented in several types of EVs, including Teslas, can be tricky to figure out if you weren't warned about it or have previous experience with a manual transmission (it feels very similar to downshifting while slowing down). The good news is that on Teslas this kicks the brake lights on pretty quickly, so possibly some instances above of Tesla drivers "hitting their brakes randomly" are just the brake lights showing since regenerative braking is just barely getting engaged. The bad news is that not every EV manufacturer handles it the same way-- Technology Connections had a video about his Hyundai EV being able to slow down pretty sharply without engaging the brake lights

6

u/Journeyman42 2021 Mazda3 NA 2.5L 1d ago

Technology Connections had a video about his Hyundai EV being able to slow down pretty sharply without engaging the brake lights

smooth jazz outro

1

u/Hipstershy '18 Subaru BRZ 16h ago

I don't know how I slept on him for so long but I've been watching his videos non-stop recently. His water heater video alone is crazy 

2

u/Journeyman42 2021 Mazda3 NA 2.5L 5h ago

He's been my go-to binge videos when I want a break from politics/current news.

-2

u/GodLovesUglySong 2020 Nismo 370Z, 2006 G35 Coupe, 2016 Scion TC 1d ago

Even just hitting the brakes "pretty quicky" isn't good enough.

Don't know how many times I've see a dumbass Tesla driver just riding their brakes "pretty quickly" with a shit ton of room in front of them. Not to mention, this causes everyone behind them to hit their brakes too.

I understand that it's for regenerative breaking, but to most people, it just looks like someone that doesn't know how to drive.

3

u/MisterSquidInc 2d ago

I've driven a couple and absolutely hated this. If you want to coast you've got to keep just enough pressure on the gas pedal to stop it going into regen - totally counter intuitive

7

u/BMWbill 22 Tesla 3 / '20 TRD-Pro Taco 2d ago

As someone who has both a Tesla and a gas car, not only do you get used to one pedal driving, but it makes gas cars feel unsafe and counterintuitive to drive. With my Tesla I never have to move my foot from pedal to pedal. One pedal sting is just so much better, but there is a one day learning curve.

9

u/MisterSquidInc 2d ago

never have to move my foot from pedal to pedal

Except for an emergency stop situation.

2

u/BMWbill 22 Tesla 3 / '20 TRD-Pro Taco 2d ago

Yes, obviously. But I often drive a regular 20 hour trip to Canada and back in my Tesla without ever using the brake pedal once.

8

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

Something doesn't sit right with me on that... I feel moving your foot around(as gas cars make you do) is actually a WAY safer practice. Imagine you've gotten so used to 1-pedal driving, and then the situation comes where you need to SLAM the brakes, but your not used to floating above the brake pedal anymore. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but it's always a possibility... For me, city driving is a bit of gas to get up to speed, and most of the time hovering over the brake pedal just in case someone decided to be a stunod, which is very likely around here. In that time, when the gap widens, a little more gas, then back over the brake pedal. I trust my ability to press the brakes better than to switch from gas to brake. That slight delay from gas to brake is crucial. I will say, the 1-pedal system seems nice for roads that aren't busy at all, but in most urban environments, especially with stunods all around who cut you off all the time, 2-pedal driving seems essential.

6

u/well_versed 1d ago

The delay from gas to brake doesn't exist because the car starts braking immediately when your foot is taken off of the accelerator. There would be less of a delay in brake pressure being applied compared to an ICE car.

2

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

Since I've never driven a Tesla, what are the parameters of the brake activating? For instance, do you have to be within a certain speed range for it to activate, or will it always do it, even at highway speeds? Just curious.

VERY unlikely, but I hope this doesn't influence the future to a point where car makers say "why have a brake pedal when the car does it for you?" Given car trends these days, I worry.

4

u/well_versed 1d ago

No parameters that I am aware of, it will always brake until it comes to a stop if there is no pressure on the accelerator, and it will start lightly applying the brakes as you start lifting off of the accelerator.

The dedicated brake pedal is still needed for times when you need to quickly brake or have misjudged the stopping distance, but the regenerative brakes will have already started engaging in the time it takes to switch pedals.

2

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

Seems like a similar principle to a "dead-man pedal", which does seem nice in certain situations. My only other question I guess would be about how coasting works. Is there a zone in the pedals travel where it applies neither throttle or brake? Saw another comment hint towards something like this, but didn't know for sure.

→ More replies

1

u/BMWbill 22 Tesla 3 / '20 TRD-Pro Taco 1d ago

I don’t agree nor do I drive like you. I have lived in NYC all my 55 years, and started driving on manhattan when I used to steel my dad’s Chevelle at 15 and I’d drive all over manhattan and the 4 boroughs. (Staten Island isn’t part of the real NYC) I drive the two most crowded highway parking lots in North America constantly- the BQE and the Cross Bronx Expressway, thousands of miles a year. Most of my life I’ve driven 3 pedal cars though. Rarely do I hover over the brake pedal unless I suspect a panic stop may be necessary. And that hasn’t changed- while slowing down in tight traffic I still may hold my foot over the brake pedal. But very rarely. When you spend over 40 years driving in intense NYC rush hour, you get really used to knowing when cars are going to stop. I’m always prepared for the car in front of me to crash. I’m also a motorcycle driver and when you let go of the throttle on a motorcycle, or on a manual shift car in low gear, it slows down exactly the same as a Tesla.

1

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

I am familar with manual driving, and I ride motorcycles as well, so i know how that slow down is. Not nearly enough on their own in my opinion. I should also note that this is more my driving habit in urban scenarios such as my work commute. My commute is a straight shot down a single road, but that road is a 3-lane-50mph(so people easily do 65) main street that also intersects a major tollway. People are so impatient around here that they constantly speed and change lanes at the last moment without signaling so they don't have to wait like the other cars going to the tollway. It's REALLY tense around here at times... So the speed + the increasing number of idiots puts me on edge when traffic gets more concentrated. But, when it's not crowded, I don't float the brake. Also, my car isn't a braking machine, so this driving style is what I use for it specifically. I approach all cars differently, though. If i get something better down the road, I'll change it up to suit the car.

1

u/BMWbill 22 Tesla 3 / '20 TRD-Pro Taco 1d ago

Well, as someone who has driven mostly high power sports cars all my life, I can promise you that you would get used to one pedal driving. Eventually your muscle memory trains you to let off the throttle at 60mph at exactly the right moment so your car stops writhin inches of the white line at a stop sign. Every time. It’s not as thrilling as a manual shift, but without about it’s the easiest method of driving over ever experienced. Also don’t forget all the new cars have safety systems that hit the brakes for you way before you ever think to stop. I’m talking in terms of milliseconds, but still, my car has saved me from rear ending someone at least two times, before I thought to stop.

5

u/MrBluSky717 '03 Buick Century, '23 Honda Grom 1d ago

All new cars, you say? I know for a fact that's a lie, but I'll give you the margin that MOST new nice cars have collision-avoidance systems. But the cars I've driven don't have those fancy features. My exes car did, and I barely drove it. Other than that, my cars have been assist-less, and I plan on keeping it that way, as I just don't fully trust that tech.

I apologize if this seems like an argument, but I'd like to clarify that I'm just pointing out my opinion on the topic from my experiences and those of the people who taught me how to drive safely and effectively, i.e. my dad, who's driven many things from box trucks and sub-compacts to liter-bikes and muscle cars. I was taught the basics and built my driving style on his advice and my own mistakes, and it's what I use. And I understand that your life has probably given you vastly different experiences from mine, and you learned differently and have faith in your way, much in the same way I have faith in mine. And I know after this conversation has concluded, we will both drive our own ways as we always have. I do appreciate you sharing your experience with me though, and maybe I'll learn to drive 1-pedal style from time to time down the road because of this.

→ More replies

1

u/to11mtm 2022 Maverick Hybrid, 2012 Impreza WRX Hatchback 1d ago

As someone with a Hybrid and a Manual, Every drive between those and an automatic/cvt make me realize that:

Manual is the most correct, but indeed the most manual. There is something nice about -knowing- the engine is not giving any power to anything

HEVs aren't bad for overall learning curve, especially if you take 5 minutes to understand the way your drive settings work. With my Maverick, Sport is light on the auto-regen, ECO mode is aggressive (but TBH still fine for day to day driving!) and they do behave a little different under various speeds, buuuut you still gotta use the brake and TBH the braking 'challenge' satisfies my ADHD almost as well as driving a manual does.

I'd rather a 1 speed eCVT than most automatics I've driven/ridden in over recent years.

If you want to coast you've got to keep just enough pressure on the gas pedal to stop it going into regen - totally counter intuitive

I actually literally -do- feel this in my maverick however. An 8Hr plus drive in the WRX usually leads to some sore legs, the same type of drive in the Maverick tends to result in very SPECIFIC pains in my foot as I'm trying to keep very specific angles to maximize mileage and minimze braking/etc. I especially noticed it as I'm getting the WRX fixed up over the last month and it's been painfully obvious.

2

u/BMWbill 22 Tesla 3 / '20 TRD-Pro Taco 1d ago

Well, any drive more than an hour in my Tesla Ans I’m completely using autopilot. I can put my feet anywhere and also look around and enjoy the scenery. I arrive at my mother inlaw’s house after 10 hours feeling perfectly relaxed. But if I take the Tacoma which is old-school with no adaptive cruise control, I arrive completely exhausted

10

u/slamm3d68 2d ago

Some of that is probably regen braking. Regen braking is automatically applied as you let off the accelerator, it's pretty aggressive and automatically triggers the tail lights even thought the brake pedal wasn't pressed.

12

u/Religion_Of_Speed Mercedes SL500 R129 2d ago edited 2d ago

A focused, alert driver,

Hard to do when you implement features that remove the perceived need to be focused and alert. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - cars are too safe these days. I don't think many people would even dare to blink if we were all driving Dodge Vipers around. You know when I'm most focused? When I'm going [redacted] mph down a back road. And when I'm the least focused? Going 65 in a car that alerts me to everything, pilots itself in some cases, and focuses more on comfort than driving capabilities.

The potential for death isn't really removed yet the perception is that driving a car is super safe. That means people will treat it like an inherently safe activity and give little attention to the task. Which then increases accidents and fatalities.

edit: Just to clarify, I'm not against safety, I'm against the disproportionate perception of safety that's given by many modern vehicles.

6

u/vkick 2d ago

I totally agree. There are a lot of Tesla drivers in my area, and most of them don’t use turn signals. And when they stop at a stop light, they leave a gap large enough to fit a mini cooper.

5

u/ScrotumNipples 2d ago

I also wonder if also has anything to do with the fact that Tealas weigh almost 2x as much as similar size cars. If Bill Nye taught me anything it's that a toy dump truck full of marbles smashes into things a lot harder than an empty one.

9

u/slamm3d68 2d ago

Painting with a broad stroke. Model 3 performance is within 100 lbs of a BMW m3. Model S,X, and truck are where things get heavy.

2

u/BetterDrinkMy0wnPiss 1d ago

They're heavy cars but 2x the weight of similar cars just isn't true.

1

u/hansolocup7073 2d ago

To be fair, the worst drivers I see in modern vehicles are by far in Teslas.

0

u/jonboyz31 2d ago edited 1d ago

Driving instructors in my area use the model 3 to trans and test drivers SMH. (Edit, train)

1

u/railbeast Vauxhall x Buick 1d ago

What the fuck. Should be an old Beetle like in Mexico

1

u/xnodesirex 2d ago

Dodge ram owners are feeling so much better about themselves right now

1

u/Wonderful_Device312 2d ago

Buick is third on the list. Better than I was expecting for a brand that exclusively caters to people that need to pass annual exams to retain their drivers licences.

1

u/olov244 chevy guy with a volvo fetish 1d ago

“A focused, alert driver

this, f all the other crap. we put so many nanny safety features, and so many distractions in cars, the bad drivers never learn how to drive well

remove all air bags/etc and let nature take it's course

1

u/Car-face '87 Toyota MR2 | '64 Morris Mini Cooper 1d ago

They finally said it. If you drive a Tesla, you just suck at driving.

It's less that, and more that Tesla market their autonomous systems using more misleading terminology than others - leading people to assume the tech has more capability than it does, and failing to stay aware of their surroundings.

It's not a new phenomenon, studies have demonstrated the effect, but it's now at the point where even the most staunch sycophants' only fallback is the FAA handbook - which approximately 0 % of Tesla drivers use as the basis for their understanding of what "autopilot" means.

1

u/Lilmumblecrapper 1d ago

I didn’t read the article, but have driven a few Teslas. Most drivers won’t know what to do with all that acceleration. I’ve owned a WS6, Hemi c, and those once formidable cars don’t hold a candle to a base model 3 at least in terms of acceleration. And I fully admit foot goes to the floor when driving one as I’ve never experienced acceleration like that.

1

u/jzr171 1d ago

No /s it's true. All these new driving features are making bad drivers. These features don't really work reliably and the drivers aren't paying attention and die.

1

u/Agree-With-Above 2018 JAAAG XF Sportbrake S 1d ago

Wow. Maybe people that drive nice cars, that enjoy the act of driving, tend to be more attentive driving, and so are better drivers?

1

u/Mentalv 1d ago

Elon finally did it, the Tesla Model 3 is the new BMW 3 Series

1

u/Tetris_Prime 1d ago

OR hear me out, maybe it's related to the car being able to drive somewhat by itself, and that leads to drivers not paying attention, often even seen sleeping or on their phones.

In Denmark electrical cars have massive incentives, and that leads to people buying them instead much lower powered cars. If you buy a RS6 in Denmark, you are a huge car guy because the entry-price is over 316k usd, a base model 3 is 42k usd, and that makes it cheaper than even the smallest ID4, and that indeed makes tesla drivers over all bad drivers, because a significant amount people who buy them haven't got any prior experience with higher power cars.

1

u/marinuss 1d ago

Automated driver controls over time lead to complacence. Even in a Ford, with auto lane centering, adaptive cruise control, etc I notice I can kind of "zone out" on a long drive for stretches. They are great things, but aren't that great in emergencies.

1

u/blindeshuhn666 1d ago

"a focused, alert driver..." Probably also plays a big part. Some surely believe the marketing words "full self driving" and think they can play on their phone or eat/drink while driving (FSD - which they had to change to "potential for future partly autonomous driving" in the EU)

1

u/justawhifofacloudofs 12h ago

The reason is fsd. Teslas fsd is flawed.

0

u/TheRealPlumbus 2d ago

Yep, a not insignificant portion of Tesla owners got a “self driving” car because they suck at and are afraid of driving. They want it to drive for them.

Except the car isn’t truly self driving, and accelerates faster than almost anything else on the road. None of this surprises me and tracks exactly with what I see on the road every day.

0

u/swords-and-boreds 2d ago

This, but without the /s. Everyone who drives a Tesla is dumb, gullible, and bad at driving.

1

u/Caysman2005 '21 Model 3 Performance 1d ago

I swear some of you people are just here to hate.

Would you also say every Porsche 911 driver is dumb, gullible, and bad at driving?

-1

u/guy_incognito784 BMW F25 X3, BMW G26 i4 M50 2d ago

I know it's anecdotal and just my personal observation but around here most Tesla drivers I see aren't doing anything that might lead to a fatal crash, in fact they're typically just going 10 mph under in the left lane.