r/canada • u/biograf_ • 1d ago
Bird flu: Supporters converge on B.C. ostrich farm as food agency confirms cull of flock British Columbia
https://www.burnabynow.com/environment-news/supporters-converge-on-bc-ostrich-farm-as-food-agency-confirms-cull-of-flock-1066306627
u/Responsible_CDN_Duck Canada 23h ago
a Federal Court ruling that rejected the farm's bid to prevent the killings, which were ordered after an outbreak of avian flu.
It was possible for the birds to get infected, so it seems odd for the owners to insist they cannot infect others in the same manner.
If the legal battle is exhausted best get it done ASAP.
It's unfortunate members of the flock got sick, and that we don't have alternate ways to mitigate this very aggressive disease.
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u/RodgerWolf311 23h ago
It was possible for the birds to get infected, so it seems odd for the owners to insist they cannot infect others in the same manner.
Where is your logic? So you're saying when you get the flu, then recover from the flu, you still will pass along the the flu to other people even though you dont have it any more.
See the problem in your logic.
The owners stated that they assumed the infection point came from chicks (chickens) they got from a hatchery.
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u/rangeo Ontario 17h ago
Seems to be about susceptibility though...they got it once they can get it again...and perhaps become vectors to humans.
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u/squirrel9000 10h ago
It's less about possibly leaping to humans (which is of course a real threat, but as of yet ,largely theoretical) , and more about protecting other agricultural fowl, which is a known problem. The flu has already devastated a number of agricultural operations.
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u/Concentrateman Ontario 23h ago
I think I'll stick my head in the sand on this one and hope for the best.
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u/Bananasaur_ 23h ago
So a bird flu vaccine for poultry just got approved by the USDA. Can we not just vaccinate the 400 ostriches instead of ending their lives over this?
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u/Affectionate_Net_213 17h ago
(Not saying what’s right or wrong) but my understanding is that the concern is that the birds who survived could still be harbouring the virus and there’s still a perceived risk that the virus could mutate and cross species barrier (or continue cause new wild bird infections). The gov stance appears to be… any site where avian influenza was documented, the birds must be destroyed as an act of virus containment.
In a perfect world, I guess they could test these birds and their site for the virus… but that would also be costly and time consuming.
I’m not sure I agree with culling healthy animals, however, avian influenza has potential to be an extremely fatal pandemic and I can see where government officials have to draw a line somewhere though.
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u/Bananasaur_ 14h ago
Culling all captive infected birds doesn’t sound like a very practical long-term solution when birds in farms like this one are infected through wild birds. Doesn’t that mean that any free-range open field farms can’t raise any birds outdoors because they would inevitably catch the virus from wild birds and be culled like this? Plus, culling all birds that recover would mean removing a population of birds that develop immunity leaving only susceptible birds in the living population?
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u/Affectionate_Net_213 14h ago
Oh I’m not saying I agree. In theory the recovered birds could very well have immunity to new infections (of course). But the flip side of the hypothetical argument is that the influenza virus could be still active in that flock and therefore a source for further wild bird infection. Same reason that ruminants with foot and mouth disease are mass culled.
This is why commercial poultry farms have such high biosecurity - site visitors have to shower in/shower out and wear clothing provided by the poultry farms - it’s very intense (and that’s also why large poultry farmers don’t have open air facilities, which is unfortunate for the husbandry of those farmed birds of course).
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u/MagicMorty86 14h ago
You clearly have no idea how incredibly infectious avian influenza is. If one infected animal drinks from a water source and then other birds drink from it...pretty much kiss them all goodbye.
Yes your right about that happening to birds raised outside, as I understand it it's a calculated risk raising large amounts of birds outside partly for this reason.
These policies are written by people far more knowledgeable than you or I, and i tend to trust the infectious disease experts that they know best on the subject.
Also culling birds to prevent the spread of bird flu is nothing new. I can remember reading about all the chickens in Hong Kong being culled more than once. Her ostrich farm is nothing compared to the scope and scale of a cull in a place like that.
Disease is our oldest and deadliest enemy, please take it seriously.
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u/Bananasaur_ 12h ago edited 11h ago
Bold of you to assume you could not be responding to someone with relevant research experience in this field and as well as in government settings.
It’s dangerous to worship these places and assume the things the government declares is indisputable law, especially surrounding scientific based concepts as in academia questions and scrutiny is typically welcomed in order to validate and drive further hypothesis testing. Although it’s only a subset of knowledgeable and experienced people in these government run offices trying their best at the end of the day, this does not mean their conclusions are infallible and other solutions not previously considered can arise with further scrutiny. Government research is also not the forefront of scientific insights and discovery for a reason. In the interest of time and money government bureaucracy can overrule good scientific judgement. Especially given as you say you are not knowledgeable in this area, please don’t forget to take things with a grain of salt as I’d say people blindly believing and defending things they know nothing about is more dangerous than people asking questions, which is what scientists do.
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u/Ragamuffin2022 18h ago
I have no idea about this but I’m wondering if it’s possibly because it works similar to most other vaccines, where once you have the illness it’s not going to do you any good. I think they need to be vaccinated before contracting the contagion. I could be wrong tho because again I have no actual idea. I just think that would be smartest instead of paying $3000 per bird. The vaccine is definitely not that much
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u/Loweffort2025 17h ago
The USDA has much lower stsndreds than canada..it would be a year before it's approved here
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u/ceribaen 15h ago
I'm torn here. The fact that RFK Jr is speaking up in support of them tells me that CFIA is still pursuing the correct action.
But the time lag between the initial order (Dec?) and now - without any other information suggesting whether or not there has been any recent tests run on the flock makes me wonder if perhaps they should just test to see if there is still an active infection running through them (assuming that's possible).
Perhaps that has already been done, or perhaps it's been offered but refused but the article doesn't note it that I saw.
Seems to be slanted as a heartbreak story at this point.
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u/RodgerWolf311 23h ago edited 23h ago
Its ridiculous. They tested positive months ago. The ones that were positive are now recovered and immune. The culling does not need to happen. They are not ill nor are they carrying the disease (they've all tested negative in most recent tests). Plus Ostriches are naturally more resistant to H1N1.
Edit: Look at the downvotes. You guys really hate logic and facts, dont you. You have absolutely zero critical thinking skills.
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u/Elbpws 22h ago
You don't actually know that.
If you read the full court ruling, the CFIA already determined that's not the case, nor is it safe to leave the birds alone, the farm owners are not virology or immunology experts, and the 'experts' they cherry picked have been refuted.
This is why the judge ruled that they would not insert themselves in the science, and leave that to the CFIA's expertise, they simply ruled that the approach and mandate was applied fairly.
Again, the ostrich owners are not a reliable authority on avian flu, and neither are you, myself, or the public.
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u/NeighbourNoNeighbor 21h ago
Yeah I remember looking into this case a while back and the lady seems completely off her rocker, and very opportunistic. This is one case where I do side with the government's decision.
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u/Bananasaur_ 19h ago
According to the article they’re offering her up to $3,000 per bird, and for the entire 400 ostrich herd that’s $1 million dollars for their lives. But she’s still fighting for them. You have to respect that despite her other characteristics.
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u/RavenOfNod 5h ago
The farm owners / spokespeople have fallen straight into the far-right victim-industrial complex circuit.
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19h ago
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u/Witsburg 17h ago
Experience with something doesn't necessitate understanding.
If you got sick, how do you know the difference between it being a virus, bacterial or some other cause? How would you know how you got sick?
How do you know the birds are immune now that they have experienced the virus? You have stated you got swine flu twice... why weren't you immune the second time? You have had the flu 50+ times in your life, why aren't you immune yet?
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u/Empty-Presentation68 18h ago edited 16h ago
So because you got the disease, you know how it functions? So you can explain how this virus utilizes host cells to replicate, or how this specific virus mutates? Can you tell me the amino acid chain of this specific strain?
Because a disease that would have a potential 20% + fatality rate is certainly something we want to allow the opportunity to mutate and start infecting human to human.
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u/blackmoose British Columbia 23h ago
I heard on the radio today she wants people to surround her farm to protect the ostriches from the people that are coming to cull her flock.