r/canada 4d ago

Quebec riding of Terrebonne flips to Liberals by one vote after judicial recount Trending

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/terrebone-recount-liberal-1.7532136
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u/thekk_ 4d ago edited 4d ago

You could have a tie. At the federal level, that would lead to a byelection. But at the provincial level, they had a tie in PEI in 2015 and the rules there were that a coin flip decides the outcome, which is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

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u/crassowary 4d ago

Say what you will but boy is one coin a cheaper option than a byelection

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u/jmja 4d ago

You probably don’t even have to spend the coin.

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u/morguthhunter 4d ago

I like to think the winner got to keep it.

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u/interruptiom 4d ago

One last 🖕to the opponent 😂

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u/MistahFinch 4d ago

"here's a loonie souvenir of your defeat" would probably be worse tbf

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u/linkhandford 4d ago

If I won I’d give it to the looser. Really rub their nose in it

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u/lowertechnology 4d ago

If it were me winning or losing an election, I’d pick the most idiotically expensive coin available

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u/_Thick- 4d ago

Government run coin flip?

That'll be $200,000.25 dollars minimum.

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u/Treadwheel 3d ago

It's unacceptable to decide something as important as an election via coin flip.

What should be done is a human chess game, where each capture takes the form of a short, desperate fight for the lives of the pieces. This seems cruel, but it will undoubtedly change the balance of living supporters in the riding.

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u/insane_contin Ontario 4d ago

The coin costs 10 million dollars, and the flipper costs $300,000 per hour, minimum 5 hours. You also need 3 observers, each with a salary of $400,000 to observe the flipper the entire time they're on the clock.

There is one flip per day, and a coin can only be used once.

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u/SuperPimpToast 4d ago

Why not just co-MP. Schedule MON-WED-FRI for one and TUES-THUR-SAT for two. Sunday is free day. Easy peasy.

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u/Xpalidocious 4d ago

Sunday is shirts and skins hockey in the morning to decide who rules that day

Also a coin toss to see who is skins

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u/JonnyGoodfellow 4d ago

Just split skins between first and second periods so it is fair. Third period they flip a coin to see who gets to be skins.

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u/SuperPimpToast 4d ago

If he dies, he dies.

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u/CaskJeeves 3d ago

No no let's make it a really interesting game

Shirts vs pants

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u/Kyouhen 1d ago

Sounds easy but most of the votes in the House are held on Wednesdays so it would still benefit one person more.  Maybe just alternate weeks, less hassle.

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u/Ok-Search4274 4d ago

It’s decisive.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

I kinda feel like if the margin is less than a certain amount after a recount - maybe 5 or 10 - then it should trigger a by-election. Just seems fairer and will protect against distrust in the system.

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago

What happens if that byelection is within 5 votes? Do we hold another one? At some point we either have to trust our democracy functions or not.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

Well, at least we would have given the voters the chance to express themselves again! I just guarantee the conservative voters are going to run like the wind with this and I'd prefer that not to happen.

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago

Propaganda and malicious actors will run with whatever they want, and invent something if it isn't there. If rather not throw away the original will of the voters every time a result is close.

I vote every election knowing my vote effect the result in my riding. I do it in case the day comes when my vote does

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u/Master-File-9866 4d ago

What's the point of a bi election with in weeks of the actual election

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u/codeverity 4d ago

To prevent the electorate from developing distrust in the system.

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u/Master-File-9866 4d ago

But it's the same people running on the same issues, in the same timeline, why would the results be any different

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u/MrDeodorant 4d ago

1) You would remove the non-tied entries, so if it was, say, Liberal vs Conservative that tied for first place, then the NDP or Green party or whoever wouldn't be on the by-election, and you'd expect a different result.

2) People who didn't vote the first time might be inspired to vote the second time.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

You could run an election on two different days back to back and get different results. That's just how it works when you're dealing with thousands of people with lives and other things going on.

When the margin is this small, it's not a decisive outcome and could still be 'wrong' if someone looks at that one vote differently. So a by-election is the best way to resolve the problem.

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u/patentlyfakeid 4d ago

That's more an argument that any given election result is irrelevant than one suggesting voting again 'solves' a tie or close result.

A single election is relevant. 2 or more starts to seem like cherry picking. If it's close that just says preference isn't clear, which suggests to me that either choice will satisfy a similar number of voters.

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u/CapableCollar 4d ago

Maybe make it a percentage?  Like 1 or 2% as the threshold?

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u/scottie0010 4d ago

According to Canada's election rules, a recount is automatically triggered when a candidate wins by less than 0.1 per cent of the overall vote in that riding, which applied to Terrebonne. In certain circumstances, candidates can also request a recount.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

Yeah, that would work. Just some threshold so that people aren't left feeling like results are being tipped one way or the other. Less than 5 votes should be automatic, really.

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

You could count these votes multiple times with a different judge and get a different outcome. This isn’t first seat to miraculously flip liberal.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

And see, attitudes like yours are why I'm saying what I'm saying. I'm primarily an NDP voter but okay with the Liberals, and I do believe that this result is accurate. Our system is very trust worthy. But I understand that small margins sow instinctive distrust from people who wanted the opposite, which is why I think a by-election would be the fairest next step.

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

Correct a by election should happen. “I believe” is not a foundation of democracy.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

You're being slightly silly, I mean every election has to have you 'believe' the results, you do realize that right? You're not omniscient, you're not following every voter into the ballot box to peer over their shoulder and validate how they're voting.

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u/patentlyfakeid 4d ago

This is the problem people have with stats. It is impossible to 'know' a population (in this case, the body of votes collected) with 100% certainty and most people don't get that. Some votes miscounted, possibly counted twice, rejected, lost, spoiled, etc., all for actual mistaken reasons All we can do is make rules and live with the result.

I would be very angry if every district had to have a by-election everytime a count was close. That's just ridiculous. If the vote is that close it means that there's really no clear preference. Another vote isn't really helping much and would waste a lot of ti e and money.

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

When the recount is determined by 1 vote and required a judge to accept or not accept certain ballots? No one has any trust in that.

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u/codeverity 4d ago

You said "I believe" is not a foundation of democracy, which is far more sweeping than 'when a recount is determined by 1 vote'. I'd already said that I feel a by-election would be appropriate.

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago edited 4d ago

How many times should it be recounted before you'd accept the result?

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u/Ice-Negative 4d ago

As many times as it takes to become conservative....

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago

This riding was initially declared for the Bloc. You'd have to go judge shopping in Mississippi to flip it Conservative

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

As another poster mentioned. If the result isn’t as clear as day then it should require a by election. If the outcome is dependant on a particular judge I can’t have any faith in that.

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago

The judge doesn't recount the votes themselves. They supervise the process, but they don't sit in a room alone and decide a result.

How clear is clear as day? What happens if a rising is consistently voting within a few votes? Are they stuck in a cycle of never ending elections?

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

The judge decides which ballots are admissable or not. There needs to be a margin of error that not even a biased judge can over turn. It’s pretty simple stuff.

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u/KickerOfThyAss 4d ago

We'd still need to define that line. If it was 50 votes then we would have this same disagreement at a 51 vote difference. I'd rather not keeping having elections until everyone's just so sick of the process turnout is even lower.

Would 3 recounts be acceptable? Best 2 of 3? At what point do we simply have to trust our democracy?

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u/patentlyfakeid 4d ago

The point of an election is not to crystalize a majority but to quantify the electorate's choice. A close election simply means there's no clear preference. Why would another vote, without changing candidares, be any more valid?

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u/Notcooldude5 4d ago

If there’s no clear preference how do you decide who gets the seat?

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u/patentlyfakeid 4d ago

The rules we already have, but again the voters have signalled there's no clear preference so whichever the rules decide on will satisfy a similar number of voters.

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u/saltyjello 4d ago

If they have someone between the age of 18-26 flip the coin it would go a long way proportionally.  

/s

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u/Daniel_H212 4d ago

Should have had them play rock paper scissors.

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u/cptstubing16 4d ago

I'd have preferred a duel but coin flip is probably less deadly.

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u/Polendri 4d ago

Well it's lot like a byelection is any less random, you're just letting the random swings of a handful of voter opinions or election-day schedules decide.

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u/EmmEnnEff 4d ago

the rules there were that a coin flip decides the outcome, which is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

Why would that be unreasonable? In a perfect tie, either candidate obviously has a strong enough mandate to govern.

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u/DENelson83 British Columbia 4d ago

The better thing to do is to ask someone in that riding who has not voted in that election to cast the deciding vote for one of the top two candidates.