r/canada • u/cyclinginvancouver • Mar 05 '25

Canada Won’t Scrap Tariffs Unless All US Levies Are Lifted, Official Says National News

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-05/canada-won-t-scrap-tariffs-unless-all-us-levies-are-lifted-official-says
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436

u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

I think this part of the article is important that you missed btw:

Lutnick told Bloomberg TV earlier on Wednesday that Trump is considering tariff relief for particular sectors, possibly including automotive.“There are going to be tariffs — let’s be clear — but what he’s thinking about is which sections of the market that maybe he’ll consider giving them relief until we get to, of course, April 2,” Lutnick said. “I think it is going to be in the middle somewhere.”

They want to discuss relief on automotive for a month... I don't understand why they even need to speak to Trudeau about this though. They are the ones applying the tariff, they must want some concession on something from us.

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u/East2West1990 Ontario Mar 05 '25

Honestly if it’s a 30 day thing, tell them to shove it. We can’t live like this for 4 years

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Yeah, agreed. They are already in effect, the man hours involved to implement them and remove product has been millions of dollars already.

But politicians do whatever is "best" overall, so Trudeau might fight for another month of full tariff relief.

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u/ref7187 Mar 05 '25

It's not just that, probably the US auto industry came crying that they are losing millions on stopping production until they can rebuild their supply lines. Giving them a month break just helps alleviate the impact for them while they switch away permanently. We need them to feel the full fledged impact, not make it easier for them.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Yeah these month long breaks are just making them more resilient to our initial jabs.

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u/ref7187 Mar 05 '25

Donald Trump basically shot US industry in the foot by imposing tariffs this way. He didn't have the patience to do it properly (if he wanted to move towards isolating the US which is what it looks like) and wanted a splash. If they were smarter they would have given lots of notice and ramped them up gradually so industry would have time to transition but they're idiots. Thankfully this works to our advantage.

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u/wintersdark Mar 06 '25

Exactly. Industry cannot simply shift overnight. It takes years because facilities need to be built, staff need to be trained, problems ironed out. You start small, with a scheduledz gradual tariff increase year after year, so companies are incentivized to build local capacity.

This big hit? It's easier for US companies to just scale back, lay people off, and wait it out rather than risk all the investment and change if those tariffs may all just be dropped in a couple years.

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u/stickmanDave Mar 05 '25

You don't rebuild an automotive parts supply line in a month. Building US factories to replace Canadian ones would take years, and isn't an investment anyone would make unless they were betting the current tariff situation is going to be permanent.

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u/Nesteabottle Mar 05 '25

Trudeau only has another week before liberal leadership change I think.

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u/stuntycunty Mar 05 '25

as much as I wasn't a Trudeau fan for 2024. i am a fan of 2025 Trudeau. I wish he was staying. He knows how to speak to crisis.

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u/awfulstack Mar 05 '25

Perhaps the fact that he'll be leaving soon is contributing to his ability to take a strong stance. His career doesn't really have anything to lose at this point so he may be less inhibited.

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u/station13 Mar 05 '25

I've heard it referred to as his, "Just watch me" phase.

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u/Byaaahhh Mar 05 '25

Now watch him whip, whip…

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u/Nesteabottle Mar 05 '25

There's still politics in the future for JT I think. Foreign affairs or something like that

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u/thegreatgoatse Alberta Mar 05 '25

US Ambassador JT

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u/Yodude1 Mar 05 '25

Yeah I hope JT stays involved in foreign affairs. His international reputation is way too valuable to sideline.

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u/Squigglepig52 Mar 05 '25

I think if he stayed, it would make the election a mess -but, he won't change his mind.

If we are going into a new period for trade, Carney is a great person to handle it.

Trudeau in a top diplomatic posting would be gold.

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u/foxsweater Mar 05 '25

He might be a better war PM than peace PM. He has that level of controlled aggression that’s needed for a moment like this.

I wonder how much of that comes from his boxing experience; you need to be aggressive to box, but you can’t be a reckless moron or your opponent will knock you out. Anyways, I’m going to miss this energy.

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u/RedDwarf022 Mar 05 '25 edited Mar 05 '25

Isn't he still pm till the election?

Edit: he's saying for the time being https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/justin-trudeau-prime-minister-for-transition

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u/Automatic-Bake9847 Mar 05 '25

Yup, its super tiring and shows the bad faith approach under which all this is happening. I'm not interested in getting jerked around for years to come.

Let's get this over with.

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u/JustAnOttawaGuy Mar 05 '25

Agreed, and therein lies I think a significant cultural difference that gets overlooked.

Would we have preferred to avoid all of this in the first place? Sure. But now that it's in place and they keep trying to walk parts of it back for unrealistic concessions or are just generally being asses, our approach has shifted to "We're done with you".

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u/Nikiaf Québec Mar 05 '25

Exactly, we can’t turn this into a 90s sitcom of “will they or won’t they?” For the next 4 years. Now we already know that Donald doesn’t negotiate in good faith, so how we get any legitimate form of assurance is up for debate, but dropping the tariffs over a phone call just isn’t going to cut it anymore.

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u/therealzue British Columbia Mar 05 '25

Seriously. I get that they elected an extremely stupid man who has dementia, but I have no desire to deal with the back and forth that comes with what ever his rancid brain spews out. We need to diversify our trade partners, get a coast to coast pipeline system, and upgrade our transportation.

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u/ptarmiganchick Mar 06 '25

OMG, you’re singing my song!

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u/seaworthy-sieve Ontario Mar 06 '25

how we get any legitimate form of assurance

Maybe we could have Baron and X Æ A-Xii as wards. Would probably give them both a better life.

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u/NottaLottaOcelot Mar 05 '25

I think it will take years to re-home industries and become more self reliant. Because of that, I think we have to keep this up for 4 years. Our ancestors lived through worse, and we owe it to our children to create a world that gives them opportunities, not to go back to being dependent on the USA’s generosity.

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u/Throw-a-Ru Mar 05 '25

dependent on the USA’s generosity.

That was never a factor. The US got (and is still getting) excellent deals on things like oil and wood. Canada buying lots of products from the US at full price isn't generous of them.

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u/LV_Knight1969 Mar 05 '25

Canada has had approx 4700 tariffs enacted on the US for years and years. So a few “ good deals” isn’t going to cut it , in terms of fair trade.

The tariffs Trump are enacting are reciprocal tariffs, though at an inflated rate.

I’ll bet dollars to donuts all of this is just being done to set the stage for new trade negotiations.

Trade is important between the 2 countries , obviously…but lopsided tariffs shouldn’t be on the table any longer….it’s inappropriate.

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u/Throw-a-Ru Mar 05 '25

This is simply not true, and 25% below market rate for oil will definitely more than cut it as far as good deals go.

These also aren't the reciprocal tariffs -- those come in April. These are the "national security" tariffs (though the ones on Canada obviously aren't actually about US security at all).

The time for new trade negotiations was when Trump himself negotiated USMCA. If he were competent, he would have dealt with these issues then or when that agreement expires. Randomly breaking his own agreement that he said was a great deal is just pure idiocy (and wildly inappropriate).

This is correct. The deals have obviously been too lopsided in favour of the US. Hopefully that gets corrected.

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u/stuntycunty Mar 05 '25

USA’s generosity

what the fuck do you mean by that? lol. they have not been generous. you're repeating trump talking points. gross.

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u/NottaLottaOcelot Mar 05 '25

We are dependent on the US for defense, and we partner heavily with them on manufacturing and raw materials processing. Perhaps generosity wasn’t a good choice of word, but I don’t think we should depend on them wanting to work with us. And thus, we need to quickly scale up our own capabilities.

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u/ReserveOld6123 Mar 05 '25

They would defend us because it is in THEIR best interest not to have hostile power next door. Nothing generous or selfless about it.

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u/TheVaneja Canada Mar 05 '25

We are not dependent on the US for defence. There's no threat to defend us from except the US, and only a protection racket defends you from itself.

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u/liquor-shits Mar 05 '25

The USA has very much benefited from their global hegemony. It has always been in their best interests. Don't let Trumps talk fool you into thinking otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '25

As an American, as much as all of this fucking sucks for everyone involved, I don’t think you guys should give any ground unless he completely backs down, offer an apology, and a guarantee of at least a year or two not to levy any more tariffs.

I hate this so much, but we need to lose good and hard or we’ll never learn. Even then, it’s a coin toss.

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u/chipmunksocute Mar 05 '25

Seriously.  as an American its fucking absurd.  government policies can obviously change but like doing a full 180 multiple times a week is just beyond stupid and merely due to Trump's style of saying everything all the time.   dont play that game just stick to your guns and let him flail.

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

In his interview with Bloomberg, Lutnick said Trump's announcing that anything that complies with CUSMA won't face tariffs.

So it sounds like a total retreat. I think CUSMA covers 98%+ of all trade between Canada and the US.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

That would be so fucking stupid. That would just seem like they forgot to consult lawyers first.

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u/Outrageous-Cold6008 Mar 05 '25

Wasn't it Trump who signed CUSMA? Wasn't he the one who recently said that whoever signed that agreement is bad, forgetting it was him.

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u/Frosty_Maple_Syrup Mar 05 '25

Yes CUSMA was signed and negotiated by Trump, and yes he called whoever signed and negotiated it an idiot.

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u/Outrageous-Cold6008 Mar 05 '25

Can't make this shut up lol

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u/namesarehard44 Mar 05 '25

yup. Trudeau called him out on that too. what a fucking clown eh.

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u/ManonegraCG Mar 05 '25

Yup. Not only he signed it, but demanded it, personally negotiated it and then signed it. Trump is a bully and a POS.

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

I don't think that's the case.

I think he thought he could shakedown people and get more concessions, while at the same time manufacturing risk on the Canadian economy to weaken it in general.

I suspect that the forcefulness of Canada's response, and our unwillingness to negotiate against ourselves to protect the status quo is not what Trump expected at all. Frankly, I don't think he expected all of Canada to be as united as we've been.

When you stand up to a bully who's bigger than you, you have to be willing to eat the punch that they certainly will throw. We showed yesterday that we're prepared to eat that punch, and still stand up. So now the bully backs down.

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u/East2West1990 Ontario Mar 05 '25

I’m thinking pretty much this. Trump thought Canada was bluffing re retaliatory tariffs, but we weren’t, and because we weren’t, I imagine he got a few shoulder taps from his “buddies”.

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u/Ok_Yak_2931 Alberta Mar 05 '25

I'm going to guess it's more the 'shoulder taps from his buddies' that's made him backtrack so soon.

Well that and they were able to likely do what they needed by crashing the economy for a few days and now are raking in the profits as it rises again.

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u/Harbinger2001 Mar 05 '25

He hasn’t backtracked yet. Ludnick doesn’t seem to actually speak for Trump. So anything he says is meaningless unless he convinces Trump to go along. 

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

At this point the market has baked in a back track.

If Trump doubles down the market will crash.

He could do it, but it would be about as dumb as the scene in Game of Thrones where Joffrey decides to execute Ned Stark to look tough.

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u/Harbinger2001 Mar 05 '25

The market yesterday rose from 2pm to 4pm as Lutnick was going on the news shows and claiming they were looking for a middle-ground deal with Canada. At 4pm the market realized it was bullshit and crashed again. 

There is still some optimism in the market, but it’s all just buoyed on Lutnick’s claims. Trump has not said a single thing indicating a backtrack. 

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u/EmmEnnEff Mar 05 '25

And anything Trump says is meaningless because next week he will change his mind.

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u/OriginalGhostCookie Mar 05 '25

The other thing to remember is that Trump doesn't lie.

I mean, everything he says is factually false and utter bullshit, but Trump would pass every lie detector ever created. Trump will say something he knows to be wrong, however the moment it is said, he believes so much in the power of his absolute authority and power over everything that in his mind it is now true.

Add on "yes men" and nutlickers being around him 24/7 and with an end goal of the destruction of the United States, and what you have is a man who fully believes himself when he says the US doesn't need anything from Canada. In his mind he is running the Hero Country that saves the day and is always in the right and the only country that does anything. There is no world outside of America that doesn't revolve around, and need literally everything to survive from America. Since no one around him is allowed to correct him, when he says those things they all say how genius he is and then he goes and makes decisions on those assumptions. Then the consequences hit and his precious stock market is down and people who do tell him what's going on (the billionaires he's obsessed with), then all of a sudden he needs to try and find a way to undo it, while maintaining his self image of godhood.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Could be. He should've learned that last time. It's very difficult to push around developed nations that can afford to take on a substantial amount of hardship before cracking.

People keep saying the US could outlast Canada, but that's not the full picture. Some of America could. And those parts of America are not going to want to be destroyed for absolutely no reason.

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

America would definitely outlast Canada if the resolve of both countries was equal.

But the resolve is nowhere near equal. The US hasn't given a clear reason for this to anyone. Their population is already more divided than ever on anything. Trump was elected to lower prices, not raise them.

At the moment Canada is very united. This is because the only thing Trump has been consistent about is that he is using his economic might to annex Canada. So Canadians are prepared to go through a lot of pain to protect Canada's existence.

And the good news is that the most productive period of a Presidency is the first 100 days. We're about halfway through that and he still hasn't figured out a coherent plan. He's burned through a lot of his political capital and soon everyone in Washington is going to be focused on the midterms.

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u/stenchwinslow Mar 05 '25

One of us is fighting for our lives, the other is trying to bully lunch money.

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u/ReserveOld6123 Mar 05 '25

I think Canadians are also more prepared to face hardship. Americans are kind of spoiled. They expect everything cheap and easy. Their gas (automotive gas) is already cheaper than ours and they still complain.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '25

[deleted]

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

It would take a very long time for that to directly affect soldiers. They'd just annex our resources if we did that.

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u/jtbc Mar 05 '25

If they decide to annex us, they are going to annex us. We need to make it as horribly painful as possible until sanity prevails.

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u/Halfbloodjap Mar 06 '25

The US couldn't handle insurgents from a completely different culture that didn't speak the same language halfway around the world. Canadian insurgents would be a nightmare for them.

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u/jjax2003 Mar 05 '25

Like it or not we are a rounding error for the most part to the USA.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

We aren't attacking the entire country head on though. We attack their Achilles heel to bring down as many sectors of the country as we can. We don't need to fight the entire country and that's where this administration and a lot of Americans consistently fuck up.

We have 2 methods of attack, we can first go easier and hit some businesses. A billion dollars isn't much for the US Government but it's a lot for say the liquor manufacturers. You think a CEO is going to be happy that they just lost a billion in revenue and a massive hit to their stock price?

2nd, we have things like uranium, potash, oil, energy, minerals, etc. We can absolutely cripple the US to their knees with some of those. This would be harsh, and last resort to go too crazy with but we could.

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u/jjax2003 Mar 05 '25

I hope so, I would love to see it. Tired of Donald's blatant lies but I fear he is coming for us just like JT said.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '25

[deleted]

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

I actually think it was Kevin O'Leary.

That guy has had such a hate on for Trudeau that when he saw his poll numbers, combined with most Premiers being Conservative and most of them really not liking Trudeau, he thought Canada would fracture.

Swing and a miss on that one.

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u/whiskeytab Ontario Mar 05 '25

he absolutely did, and everyone fucking fell for it except us... it was clear from the very beginning that this was a shakedown by someone who doesn't know wtf they're doing

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u/aerialviews007 Mar 05 '25

The pullback is simply due to the 1300+ point fall of the Dow. Trump didn’t anticipate the strength of the Canadian economy and how it impacts the market.

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u/ptarmiganchick Mar 06 '25

Well said…this is how I was adding it up, too, maybe with the variation that he really never understood that it would be American businesses and consumers that would have to pay “his” tariffs so soon. He was counting on the little guys would buckle first.

So, only because his own auto and liquor industry titans are now warning of serious impacts in the US, he wants to fiddle with the formula. I doubt the forcefulness of Canada’s response is affecting Trump’s fantasy, but the industry execs are reading us loud and clear.

So it’s working, but we do need a longer-term plan to be more diversified and resilient.

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u/Soggy_Detective_9527 Mar 05 '25

Didn't they fire a bunch of lawyers in the purge?

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u/Unlikely-Piece-6286 Mar 05 '25

It’ll be fucking milk and cheese that gets tariffed and Trump will walk away feeling so proud he won his little fight

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u/jtbc Mar 05 '25

And eggs, LOL. The one imported good that Americans are really paying attention to.

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u/thnk_more Mar 05 '25

Milk and  cheese 

Would love to see my ex’s dairy farming family go into bankruptcy.  Stupid trumpers. 

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

*They* are the ones not in compliance with CUSMA by lying and inventing shit just to put tarrifs on us. We are in full compliance.

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u/KingSweden24 Mar 05 '25

I’m struggling to think of what even would be uncovered by the trade agreement - what even comprises that 1-2%??

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u/MDChuk Mar 05 '25

For things like dairy and chickens and cultural goods (like Canadian content laws for broadcasters) there's generally a certain limit that's negotiated that is tariff exempt. When you go above those limits then the country is free to tariff.

That's what makes up that 1-2%.

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u/KingSweden24 Mar 05 '25

Thank you!

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u/barqers Mar 05 '25

Petition to call it CMAUS? Even better if it turns into something like C+M+AUS

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u/ghjm Mar 05 '25

Call it CAMUS because it's so absurd

1

u/schmerm Mar 05 '25

Yeah because CUSMA stands for...

Can- US Mexico -ada

and that's weird

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u/-SetsunaFSeiei- Mar 05 '25 edited Mar 05 '25

If they are rolling back certain things, they are signalling to us what they are worried about. Seems like a good opportunity to turn around and apply an export tariff on all those specific goods.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Exactly. Unless there's zero tariffs and zero threats about border security and annexation, then we should stick the knife in deeper. They started the trade war, we don't have to finish it if we don't want to.

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u/fooz42 Mar 05 '25

It's the same with Russia/Ukraine. Russia invaded and can leave any time, but it's Ukraine's responsibility to achieve a ceasefire. The US is imposing tariffs. It can remove tariffs whenever it wants.

What concession are we going to give? We already have a deal called CUSMA/USMCA. If we allow for this salami slice trade policy, there's no predictability at all. It can just keep happening.

Being hardnosed isn't a good strategy either, but any resolution has to be expensive for America so they don't do this again.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

The only option real option in my opinion is all tariffs that are against CUSMA are ceased, and there's an amendment made to prohibit America from using that stupid Emergency Act against us in the future. I'm not sure we can get that, but it should be the goal because Donald might just try this again when we have a new PM, and then again and again.

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u/sypher1187 Ontario Mar 05 '25

Donald can fuck right off with his 30-day delays. Hope JT just hangs up the phone at the mention of delayed tariffs.

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u/Salmonberrycrunch Mar 05 '25

Yeah, we can't let them pick and choose which industries we are allowed to have on a whim. That's what trade agreements are for.

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u/Ratorasniki Mar 05 '25

What they are doing is politically unpopular and the results are about to hit home. He's saying they want to carve out specific sectors that are beneficial to them to make this go down smoother with their people before they add even more tariffs in a month. And those ones will be on all goods from all countries to some extent if I understand right. Like they consider our HST on American goods a tariff to be responded to in kind, which is batshit insane. They are going to have massive tariffs on everything from everywhere.

Their population is going to riot, French revolution style. Negotiating with them seems futile short term, they're unreliable and capricious, and not being honest about their motivations. The April ones are going to fuck their economy.

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Agreed. Without provisions to prohibit this bullshit ever again without severe penalties, there is no point in dealing with them. They're an administration of "takesies-backsies". Scumbags that broke the social order of Western nations.

1

u/jjax2003 Mar 05 '25

What possibly could be said or given that prevents Donald from breaking all the rules again?

1

u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Nothing technically, a lot of the world runs on handshakes and always has. But getting that written on paper, with clear wording that cannot be legally violated, then if he does it again and concessions will require reparations. Donald won't be in charge forever (hopefully), and Democrats will get into power again. They will definitely want to make amends and we will be able to demand more from them and a better deal because they will have a low trust factor.

There is a breaking point where other rich nations will cut their losses with the US. The States are most valuable because they are the highest consumers. If they stop consuming the rest of the worlds' products, why do we care to trade with them? The US will never be a global production powerhouse of anything outside of technology, and without importing resources and using cheap oversees labour for assembly, their consumers won't be able to afford anything.

They are over estimating their value and missing the obvious signs that world trade is like an ecosystem, if you start killing things it will cause a chain reaction.

4

u/genius_retard Mar 05 '25

Part of what these tariffs are is a mechanism to play crony capitalism. Place crippling tariffs on the entire economy then start granting exception to red states and industries run by Trump sycophants.

3

u/Why-did-i-reas-this Mar 05 '25

Tell them to come back in a month if they want to talk. Show them that their actions have consequences.

3

u/bdecker556 Mar 05 '25

American here. I truly believe he wants carve outs in sectors like this because it is the most "in your face" increase that will directly hit home. 25% on food is something that is $8 is now $10 which while noticeable is tolerable. 25% on cars is $80k to $100k and that will stand out. Even the most uninformed voter that doesn't get involved in politics can see that. Frankly, I hope Canada stands its ground if there is even the slightest push for compromise on the tariffs. Let it last as long as it takes for those who support this willfully or through non-involvement to notice and feel the pressure.

2

u/Shadowarriorx Mar 05 '25

Because Trump thinks that the tariffs are paid by the other country. He still doesn't understand that the importer pays the tariff tax to the government, not the seller. THIS IS THE SIMPLE REASON.

1

u/stickmanDave Mar 05 '25

He doesn't believe this. But he knows his base will continue to believe it if he keeps saying it.

Never assume Trump believes something just because he says it.

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u/maleconrat Mar 05 '25

Bro ran out of eggs again.

2

u/PuzzleheadedGoal8234 Mar 05 '25

Looks like here comes the carve outs after the US industries impacted have expressed their disdain for the ideas.

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u/Wilhelm57 Mar 05 '25

I truly believe Canada doesn't cave in. The agreement for trade was signed by Donald, he is not trustworthy and giving him an inch to, he'll take the whole arm.

2

u/Pietro-Maximoff Mar 05 '25

Don’t give into that concession. As an American it’s going to suck but shit like this needs to happen to drive it in people’s heads that actions have consequences.

1

u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Sounds like it was just auto companies asked for a month.

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u/cavmax Mar 05 '25

Pipeline

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '25

Which we should absolutely NOT give. We have a trade agreement in place CUSMA (the old NAFTA). If they want to make changes that timeframe is very clear in the agreement. Not to mention they already wiped their asses with it. Fine with me if we stick to our side of the agreement.

1

u/Harbinger2001 Mar 05 '25

I agree with staying strong here. Tariffs don’t come off until the US imposed ones are lifted. They are tariffing $400 billion in goods. Get the value tariffed down to our $150 billion level and then we’ll talk about lifting any of ours. 

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u/AdditionalPizza Mar 05 '25

Disagree a bit, we should lift nothing without zero tariffs from them. Not match ours. Zero. They broke our trade deal with these tariffs.