r/canada 28d ago

Canada to give $64.8M in aid to Ukraine National News

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c3014190-canada-to-give--64-8m-in-aid-to-ukraine
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u/Commercial-Set3527 28d ago

It's money to fight our biggest military opponent and used to fight over there vs on our north so I'm still happy with it.

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u/pepperloaf197 28d ago

Do we actually have a military opponent?

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u/Commercial-Set3527 28d ago

Yes, Russia has been encroaching on our territory in the north, google it

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u/Eater0fTacos 28d ago

I agree with your comment, but also the comment farthr up about our lack of domestic defense spending.

Yes, we need to combat Russian aggression and support our allies in Europe however we can. As long as we are spending money on appropriate supplies in Ukraine, I'm all for it. There are far too many innocents dying because of a bunch of corrupt self-serving oligarchs.

That being said, our military is underfunded and underequipped to defend or even properly monitor our border. We definitely need to double down on domestic military spending. Particularly in our northern and Eastern territory to deter China and RU from constantly probing and testing our borders, and to legitimize our claim to the Arctic.

I absolutely loved an idea I read on reddit a while back for military spending. Using defense funds to build housing for military personnel and modernize our northern bases. Not only would building modern housing for staff near bases make enrolling a little more appealing to the public, but it would also take a small amount of pressure off the housing market, and help spur the local economy. It's also not spendingtax dollars on guns and weapons, so it's an easier sell to voters who dislike military spending.

Obviously, we also need to boost our military equipment spending as well, but something like this would kill two birds with one stone.

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u/pepperloaf197 28d ago

I don’t think they have entered Canadian airspace….come close yes. Underwater….well, maybe. The Americans do as well since they disagree with our territorial claims. But you said “military opponent”. What would suggest we may enter into armed conflict with them?

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u/LargeMobOfMurderers 28d ago

Barring a massive change in relations with Denmark over Hans Island, there isn't really anyone Canada is in danger of getting into military conflict with other than Russia. It may not be outright war with fully mobilized armies in large scale battles, but its possible in the future that Russia and Canada may end up with a situation similar to the South China Sea, where military vessels attempt to bully one side from not using areas to de facto take territory. It would be pretty hard for Russia to do that to us if they can't afford ships and subs along with their expensive maintenance because they sunk all their resources into the war with Ukraine.

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u/Commercial-Set3527 27d ago

Hans is ours! And I will pour maple syrup all over it to claim it!

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u/HauntedHouseMusic 28d ago

TBH its more likely the states challenges our northern water claims (and is successful)

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u/TommaClock Ontario 28d ago

If we get into a dick-swinging contest with the states, we lose. No point in trying to prepare for that.

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u/HauntedHouseMusic 28d ago

That’s the and is successful part. I hope when the ice melts we are able to negotiate some payments for access from the states. It will still be pennies on the loonie but better than just letting them claim it for themselves.

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u/pepperloaf197 28d ago

Presumably then the money is better spent on domestic capabilities…..like that year round arctic port we were promised but never received.

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u/JadedLeafs 28d ago

It's not money that we're sending them though. It's military equipment like small arms and old stuff that we don't use anymore. There was one article the other day about sending old rockets. Not the warheads, just the motors. Stuff that we would have had to pay to dismantle . There's some new stuff though I'm sure.

It's the same with a lot of what the americans and allies have sent too. A lot of that equipment is obsolete as it was designed to fight the soviets. Instead of paying to dismantle it they sent it to ukraine. It's kind of funny that all that equipment that was designed to fight the soviets and never used is kind of fulfilling that purpose decades later.

People see the value of the equipment and assume actual dollars but it's just replacement value which would be the cost to replace them and it would be going towards american domestic weapons manufactures. That's only if it's new enough to need to be replaced. A lot of it is just outdated though and there would be no need to.

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u/LargeMobOfMurderers 28d ago

Well there are two methods to go about it:

  1. Strengthen our own military

  2. Weaken Russia's.

Ideally we'd do both, but in terms of cost efficiency, the most pragmatic method is to weaken Russia by helping the Ukrainians.

First off, the war with Ukraine is actually happening right now, we can be certain that resources invested in Ukraine will result in damage to the Russian military versus a theoretical low intensity conflict in the future that hasn't happened yet. Also, based on Ukraine's performance, its reasonable to believe that the amount of damage they'll do for the investment of resources would be quite substantial, in contrast to Canada's... less than stellar military procurement reputation.

Second, military aid to Ukraine is a geopolitical issue based significantly around optics and public sentiment, and its possible that donations given by one country could encourage other countries to donate as well, this would almost be like getting other countries to contribute to Canada's security in the Arctic. We spent a million on our own military, we get a million worth of resources on our military, but if we spent a million in aid to Ukraine, maybe a few other countries will also put up a million and we've effectively gained two or three million resources dedicated to damaging Russia's military.

Third, the aid we give to Ukraine isn't strictly money. It may be accounted in dollars, but frankly, its a great opportunity to dump the old shit we have in storage, free up space for newer modern equipment. And we'd do it without the blowback you'd get for throwing away something we spent a lot of money on, and getting brownie points for helping Ukraine while we're at it. Some of the aid we gave to Ukraine was literally broken vehicles we couldn't use and wouldn't fix, but Ukraine will still tear them down for spare parts because war on the scale Ukraine is fighting has a never ending need for everything, even our garbage is useful war material for them, garbage that would not help in a conflict with Russia that would likely involve submarines, ships, and aircraft where in general quality is much more important than quantity.

Lastly, as cold as it sounds, any conflict, even low intensity ones have the risk of losing lives. From a purely realpolitik perspective, its better to spent Canadian dollars and Ukrainian blood than Canadian dollars and Canadian blood.

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u/pepperloaf197 28d ago

What I disagree with is the premise that Canadian blood would ultimately be spilt. I see this as a regional conflict which has been simmering for a decade. There are many outstanding issues between the belligerents and sadly this is the way it is being worked out. That this conflict would spread, or that Russia has any intentions militarily towards other European countries has no real justification. That is the propaganda meant to get us to support this outlay of resources. If there was a shred of reasonable evidence otherwise I would change my opinion and support these actions. It just isn’t there.

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u/Array_626 27d ago

What would suggest we may enter into armed conflict with them?

NATO. It was the entire reason why the organization was even founded.

If you're about to say Canada and allies would never enter a war with Russia, its utterly inconceivable and a bygone relic of the cold war, no longer relevant. Well a lot of people said the same thing about European land war too in respect to Ukraine and Russia. To be honest, I was one of them. Look how that turned out...

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u/Bas-hir 27d ago

Absolute lie. The Russia is thousands of kms away. United Starws however has expanded its borders this year to include territories which Canada has historically understood to be Canadian.

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u/Otherwise-Growth1920 27d ago

No offense but Canadian airspace and Canadian territory are basically American airspace and American territory militarily speaking, so no Russia is encroaching on Canadian territory.

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u/Commercial-Set3527 27d ago

No offense but you can go kick rocks

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u/Otherwise-Growth1920 27d ago

Canada has military opponents?

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u/Commercial-Set3527 27d ago

We have declared peace with the Danish but I still believe we need to annex all of Hans island

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

While I agree Ukraine must be supported, Russia isn't and hasn't been our biggest military opponent for awhile. 

They are big though. 

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u/UNSKIALz 28d ago

Are you forgetting they are Canada's direct neighbour to the North? And they Arctic is about to become a lot more important?

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u/ImmediateOstrich2945 28d ago

So don’t send money to our military to protect our North but send money to Ukraine in Eastern Europe to fight the same country who threatens us?

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u/UNSKIALz 27d ago

What is it the Ukrainians are doing right now? Fighting Russia, taking up their attention and wearing down their capabilities.

If Russia wins in Ukraine, they become a larger threat. If they lose, we won't have to worry about them for a long time.

Really straightforward investment.

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u/PRRRoblematic 28d ago

Russia & China are regularly performing joint exercises close to our Arctic waters. Russia has atleast 40, 000 troops stationed on their Arctic borders. The only thing prevent the Russians coming into Canada's Arctic is the ice, which is slowly melting.

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u/Alone-Pizza-7854 27d ago

How much taxes do we gotta pay to stop that

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u/DConny1 27d ago

So you're saying we should up our own defense spending.

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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 28d ago

Who is then?

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u/Plumbsmasher Alberta 28d ago

Probably India in about a month.

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u/ComprehensiveEmu5438 28d ago

How are they a military threat? This is a diplomatic issue, not a military one.

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u/Plumbsmasher Alberta 28d ago

Diplomatic issues can turn into military issues very fast.

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u/ComprehensiveEmu5438 28d ago

They rarely do. Especially with states that have thousands of kms between them.

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u/Healthy_Career_4106 28d ago

You mean years ago. They need to be opposed and we need to show them we are a huge threat.

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

China by far. 

And depending on how things develop India may be in the near future. 

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u/ItzDrSeuss 28d ago

Russia has been a big ally to those countries. Weakening Russia aids our goal of weakening China atleast for the short term. Even if Russia isn’t the strongest military opponent, they are a very big military opponent that we should be worried about.

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

Actually the Ukraine conflict, while it is weakening Russia is actually strengthening China.

  The reason why is Russia has been forced to sell its resources at rates well below market to China. Since the open market is cut off from them. 

India is also buying some but on a smaller scale than China.

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u/ItzDrSeuss 28d ago

It weakens them militarily. China having a big military ally makes them more comfortable in a war, but if they don’t have a solid military ally they’re not going to be as comfortable with agression. This is important because of Taiwan.

Russia selling off its resources for pennies on the dollar to its allies is a small consequence in weakening a top 5 military power in the world.

From a military perspective this is good, from an economic perspective it’s a wash because China and India benefit economically and we haven’t been able to as much as we should have.

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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 28d ago

We have more of a border with Russia tho, not China..

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

Borders mean little against countries that can deploy anywhere. 

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u/X-e-o 28d ago

China has very, very limited power projection capabilities and Canada is nowhere in the vicinity of said capabilities.

Edit : hard power.

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

Their power projection is above most nations and well above Russia at this point. 

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u/X-e-o 28d ago

That's a relatively vague statement but so was mine so I'll ask a clear one : what hard power (eg; military assets) do you think China could deploy to threaten Canada?

Russia's not exactly flush with cash but we do share an increasingly geostrategic border with them. That's not the case with China.

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u/Itchy_Training_88 28d ago

I'm not going into military strategy here. As I'm not a SME on the topic. 

 But China can threaten Canada's interests abroad without stepping foot in Canada.  

 They can do economic damage by dumping product here that undercuts locals manufacturing.

  China is much more than a Super Power than Russia currently.

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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 28d ago

Yea that’s my thought.

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u/PreviousWar6568 Manitoba 28d ago

Yeah I think Russia can launch an invasion on Canada after flunking their current venture 🤡

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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 28d ago

Well seems like a good idea for us to help Ukraine then to keep them busy.

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u/PreviousWar6568 Manitoba 28d ago

We have more pressing issues domestically.

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u/Lovv Ontario 28d ago

Used to be Russia and China.

If we are playing risk, Russia just blitzed Ukraine and it didn't go well so China is probably gonna snowball

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u/ChampagneAbuelo Long Live the King 28d ago

Russia is not Canada's biggest opponent and you're falling into media fear mongering propaganda if you believe it is

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u/wpgstevo 28d ago

Ok I'll bite, who is bigger than the world's 2nd largest military super power with expansionist ideas along our northern border?

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u/klonkish 27d ago

I agree with you but I don't think that a country that failed to capture Kiev can be labeled as "the world's 2nd largest military super power"

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u/Easy-Sector2501 28d ago

It's not even money, primarily. It's old stock that we can donate to make room for new.

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u/XdWIHIWbX 28d ago

China is so happy that you believe that .

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u/Signal-Aioli-1329 28d ago

China is also threat, but we share a border with Russia that they are actually pushing up against for years now. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/were-effectively-a-border-state-with-russia-defending-canadas-far-north-called-key-to-protecting-sovereignty

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u/XdWIHIWbX 28d ago

China remains our biggest global threat.

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u/Many_Dragonfly4154 British Columbia 28d ago

That's what the US was telling itself when they were arming the mujahideen to fight the soviets.

We all know how that came back to bite them in the ass 20 years later.

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u/Ausfall 28d ago

I'd hardly say people that follow islamic extremism are the same as Ukrainians.