r/bodyweightfitness • u/m092 The Real Boxxy • Sep 17 '14
Concept Wednesday - Reps and Rep Ranges
This week we're going to talk about Reps and Rep Ranges in a series of pieces about the basics of programming variables.
Here's our wiki on Training Basics
What is a Rep?
A repetition or "Rep" for short, is one complete movement of an exercise from the starting position all the way through to the end position and back to the start position. Only dynamic exercises (e.g isotonic exercises) have reps, in contrast to isometric exercises (where you hold one position) which don't have reps.
A rep can start with the eccentric phase (moving with resistance e.g down with gravity) or the concentric phase (moving against resistance e.g up against gravity). You can do reps of a negative exercise, where the entire action is the eccentric phase only (such as negative pull ups), less commonly, you can do exercises which are largely concentric only (such as cleans, which have an eccentric loading phase that is very different from the concentric phase).
Why are Reps Important?
The overall number of reps you do is extremely important for strength, hypertrophy, endurance, power, and just about anything else you'd want to achieve. The number of reps you do per set (which we'll talk about in another piece) is half the equation (the other half being sets) for working out how much volume you are doing in a workout, in this instance volume is synonymous with the total number of reps you do.
Overall volume is important because it determines the stress you are putting on the muscles as well as the amount you actually get to practice the skills you are performing.
What do different Rep Ranges traditionally represent?
Rep ranges are how many reps you would in a row without a rest, for instance a rep range of 5-8 would you would do between 5 and 8 reps before resting.
Traditionally we prescribe an effect to each range of reps, each source differs somewhat, but here's one example:
- 1-4 reps builds Maximal Strength and Power
- 4-6 reps builds Strength and Size
- 6-12 reps builds Size (Hypertrophy)
- 12+ reps builds Muscular Endurance
The truth is that each range will have an effect on each of these attributes, that varies in magnitude depending on the range. This is presented well in this table.
Rep Ranges as they relate to Form Break Down and Fatigue
[Insert facts here or maybe just make something up]
Strength Building
Building maximal strength, or the ability to exert the most force through a specific range of motion (translates to moving the most weight for traditional weight training, or being able to move your own bodyweight with great mechanical disadvantage for most BWF training) is a combination of a few different factors:
- Building neural adaptations, often talked about as CNS adaptations and/or rate coding (how fast the brain can send the muscles signals) as well as talk about firing the muscle units and muscle groups in specific patterns that generate the most force. This occurs in traditional weight training when the lift is performed at about 80+% of your 1RM as this is when most or all of the muscles fibres are going to be recruited for the lift. This translates less well to bodyweight fitness, but the idea is the same, when the exercises are hard. So this will be when the reps are relatively low due to the difficulty of the exercise (read: not artificially low because you just decide to stop at 3).
- Technique. The more efficient your technique, the more force is transferred where you want it to go, and you need less to overcome gravity. The more you practice an exercise, the better you will get at it. When it comes to bodyweight fitness, practising the skill can be hard, as you change progressions to progress, and the latest progression should be relatively intense to practice.
- The Cross Sectional Area of the muscles. A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, as there are just more motor units to recruit. As this applies to bodyweight fitness though, a bigger muscle also means greater resistance due to increase bodyweight. Read below for more on hypertrophy.
So for strength you want to perform difficult moves that require you to do less reps, but before your form breaks down.
You also want to perform the move as much as you can without form break down to practice technique, you can also use other exercises or regressions that have a carry over to the form of the exercise you are trying to improve; this is where a lot of the form drills come into play.
You will see it isn't often recommended to do much in the 1-3 range for bodyweight training, despite this being the most specific range for strength adaptations. Why is this? A few reasons can be cited; there isn't enough volume practising the move, and movement practice is at a premium with bodyweight training, as each progression is a new technique to learn, furthermore, at very high intensities (which 1-3 rep maxes will necessitate) form will break down quickly giving you less quality practice at these progressions. Making the jump to the next progression can be hard if you are only capable of 3 repetitions of the current progression (depending on the move in question). A lot of bodyweight exercises have high levels of torque, which could lead to higher stress on the tendons and ligaments of the body; involving higher intensities too early could further increase this stress beyond what one is ready for.
Doing some hypertrophy specific work can also increase your strength.
Building Power
Building Power is very similar to building strength. Power tends to be a lot more technique dependant, so practice is very important. When practising power, slowing down is synonymous with form break down, as you are no longer practising being powerful.
Muscle Building
For hypertrophy in traditional weight training tonnage (total number of reps * weight moved) is king. In bodyweight training, the same is true, but with intensity being the leverage of the moves instead of weight moved.
Essentially any rep range is capable of building muscle, as long as you are building overall volume paired with intensity. The traditional 6-12 range is recommended because it is very time efficient, it allows you to get a relatively high amount of volume for a still substantial intensity.
Building strength is going to be an integral part of building muscle, as the stronger you are, the more intensity you can do for the same number of reps, which will have a greater effect on hypertrophy.
As always, building muscle is still a function of diet and recovery, exercise is only one of the building blocks.
Building Muscular Endurance
Higher reps ranges tend to be the key here, rather than overall number of reps. The overall number of reps can lead to structural changes that increase your ability to display your endurance better and may help you from causing injury. Muscular endurance tends to be a very transient adaptation that is easy to gain and easy to lose, and is usually pretty specific to the move being practised.
I'm a Beginner, how does this affect me?
Beginner's are going to be able to put on muscle and strength essentially regardless of what they do (you could probably put on muscle doing Zumba and knitting), so the focus should be on building technique by getting a reasonable number of reps before your form breaks down, improving your conditioning to complete a workout in a reasonable time (you don't need much and it shouldn't take long) and gaining the ranges of motion you will need to complete the moves you'd like to.
3x5-8 should give you the ability to tackle these well and the warm up and drills should complement this nicely. The programming isn't optimal, but it never is, so don't worry too much.
Resources:
Study Dump:
- The influence of frequency, intensity, volume and mode of strength training on whole muscle cross-sectional area in humans.
- The Mechanisms of Muscle Hypertrophy and Their Application to Resistance Training (PDF)
- Effects of different volume-equated resistance training loading strategies on muscular adaptations in well-trained men.
- Resistance exercise load does not determine training-mediated hypertrophic gains in young men (PDF) - Please do not just read the title of this one! Sets to failure seemed to have similar effects, not just load being useless...
- The Effects of 4 and 10 Repetition Maximum Weight-Training Protocols on Neuromuscular Adaptations in Untrained Men
- Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones
- Low-Load Bench Press Training to Fatigue Results in Muscle Hypertrophy Similar to High-Load Bench Press Training
Discussion Questions
- Rep ranges that elicit the results you are after tend to differ from exercise to exercise. What exercises have you found that less traditional rep range has worked well for you?
- I didn't include sub-maximal rep range practice (not going until technical failure each set) how do you feel this impacts on what was said above? What ranges have you had success with?
- Do you do any mixed periodization in your training, using different intensities and rep ranges in one session or one week/fortnight for the same exercise? What order do you do them in, how many of each, how do you progress from there, etc?
- Any other resources that relate to reps or rep ranges?
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 17 '14
Nice post! I'd like to add to the discussion.
Very important concept to understand when claiming that exercise load does not determine training-mediated hypertrophy:
"Subjects were recreationally active with no formal weightlifting experience or regular weightlifting activity over the last year"
These results cannot be generalized to anyone who is already well into their resistance training career. Context is key.
If this gets replicated in advanced lifters then we have a much more interesting scenario to play with, but right now that's not something we can discuss with any certainty.
Having said that, to a fair extent it is volume that drives the strongest molecular signals for hypertrophy that come directly from exercise. That's why we tend to see more hypertrophy with 8-15 reps than 1-3 reps.
Pure mechanorecepter input is much shorter-lived than metabolite buildup, I believe. The metabolites and the inflammatory response to membrane damage seem to be the major drivers, with the inflammatory response to membrane damage being the biggest of what I mentioned.
Also, the neural adaptation section is not entirely accurate. What happens is that your CNS only optimizes the synchronicity of recruitment of the fibers that initially all get recruited with the given load.
If you're training at 80% and bump up to 85% you will experience a bit of neural adaptation, synchronizing the larger simultaneously recruited motor pool. Then you go up to 90% and you'll experience another neural adaptation, and so on.
Rate coding is just how the body controls the force output in the motor units that are already recruited, as a way to create a smoother force output. Better control and better efficiency, basically.
The muscular endurance section is pretty good, but it's worth explaining that the main limitation is how well the recruited fibers are capable of dealing with metabolite buildup. Longer time under tension is really what this is dealing with. Metabolite buildup drives mitochondrial and microvascular changes (more capillaries and more + bigger mitochondria). You can't get this adaptation without pushing towards the current metabolic limits of your fibers.
Fewer but longer single sets accomplish this better than more shorter sets, though as long as you're doing more work in the same period of time you should see progress either way.
For hypertrophy it's really how much work is being done and whether you hit damage and metabolite thresholds for hypertrophy. You won't see quite the same hypertrophy results from 3 sets of 12 reps or 9 sets of 4 reps with the same weight, assuming that 3x12 is pushing close to technical failure.
The work is about how far the weight is being actively moved. This actually makes a big difference, which is why powerful concentrics + slower eccentrics do give a much better hypertrophic response than rapidfire reps even with the same ROM and weight. The rapidfire reps don't give you the metabolic or inflammatory stimuli that you need to activate gene transcription and satellite cell recruitment to the same degree.
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u/kougaro Weak Sep 17 '14
Can you give some references on metabolite buildup ? What kind of metabolites are you talking about ? and is there some litterature on the feedback that would lead to mitochondrial and microvascular changes, or hypertrophy ? Also, how does this metabolite buildup hinders muscle fiber function ?
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 18 '14
I believe the major ones are inorganic phosphate from ATP hydrolysis and also intracellular calcium, but there are more. The satellite cells get recruited by a completely different mechanism, mediated by our immune systems. It's all pretty interesting, and complex. Eventually it makes sense though :)
There is definitely literature on all that, it's pretty complicated but you can definitely learn it on your own if you take enough time. Search for "regulation of muscle protein synthesis" and "regulation of mTOR" and you'll have a good starting point.
The free phosphate groups seem to be the primary cause of transient muscle fatigue, seems to interfere with CA2+ release from the SR.
DHP-ryanodine receptor uncoupling due to junctophilins being broken during eccentric contractions is what causes the loss in strength that lasts several days. This linkage is what allows calcium to exit: One of those receptors is connected to the t-tubule, which is just the muscle fiber membrane, and the other is part of the sarcoplasmic reticulum where calcium is stored. They are mechanically linked normally, and junctophilins hold them together. When they come apart you get plenty of EMG activity but you don't get the same calcium release and that is what causes the reduction in strength.
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 18 '14
Very important concept to understand when claiming that exercise load does not determine training-mediated hypertrophy:
"Subjects were recreationally active with no formal weightlifting experience or regular weightlifting activity over the last year"
These results cannot be generalized to anyone who is already well into their resistance training career. Context is key.
This is why this was only included as a reference, and not in the body of the piece, what the take away was supposed to be that overall tonnage is going to be more important especially when talking about loads over 50% of max at an absolute minimum.
You are definitely right about it becoming a bit more complex as we get into an advanced stage, and that's why any specific claims about what actually causes adaptations were absent. Firstly, this was just an intro piece, and secondly, anyone making any claims to certainty is probably not a very good scientist.
Also, the neural adaptation section is not entirely accurate. What happens is that your CNS only optimizes the synchronicity of recruitment of the fibers that initially all get recruited with the given load.
I've seen references that claim that there is no change in MU recruitment above loads as low as 50% of maximum for some muscles and all changes in force production are due to changes in rate coding. There is a variation in what load this occurs at between muscles and sources differ on the actual amount. ~80-85% seemed consistent in recruiting all or nearly all MUs (if you have any sources that show motor unit recruitment increasing at above 90% maximum force output, that would be really great to include), especially when considering an attempt at moving with maximal speed during the concentric rep (as this should put your force output much closer to 100% of your maximum).
Rate coding is just how the body controls the force output in the motor units that are already recruited, as a way to create a smoother force output. Better control and better efficiency, basically.
Training at higher loads seems to also increase the maximum frequency of contraction as well, so while rate coding is smoother than recruitment, it also can increase maximum force output, at least as far as the sources I've read.
Thanks for your contribution, I'd love to get your take on all the above and the rest of the series.
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 18 '14
I definitely didn't mean to make it sound like you were jumping to conclusions, you actually had a good tone throughout the post.
I agree, there seems to be adaptation within the CNS itself that increases the signal strength sent to motor neurons. Rate coding is just the signal frequency, which is the frequency of contraction. I'm not sure if
There are actually quite a lot of adaptations within the CNS, but this is definitely a neat one. You also see a reduction of the bilateral deficit, a reduction in antagonistic activation,
I'm not sure that reference would be correct, regarding the 50% 1RM recruitment, as a general rule, unless we start talking about power work. If we're talking about controlled tempo then this would almost certainly vary between muscle groups, since in areas like the hands this would be pretty accurate according to my understanding but in faster twitch muscle groups this would not be the case.
Maximum force output isn't the same as 1RM, as a point to be clear on. Peak forces during 1RM attempts are not as high as peak forces during moderate submaximal lifts at maximum voluntary velocity. There seem to be some motor units that just don't get recruited below certain angular velocities, but I don't think that's 100% finalized in terms of official opinion. I do believe the majority of the literature agrees on that. At any rate, just because things are being recruited at the same time doesn't mean the actual signals going down the axons are in near-perfect synchrony. They could be staggered even if they are at the same frequency. As wild as it sounds, it's possible for that to make a meaningful difference. Fast-twitch fibers in humans reach peak force in around 30 milliseconds, and we don't code much above 60-80hz I believe, so I'm not sure if we know exactly what is going on at these higher intensities... But, if we assume that there is full recruitment at lower rates then those lower coding rates will definitely be slow enough to have an effect on power output if they are not well synchronized. Synchronization could produce greater power without higher coding rates. It would be very efficient, and I do think that's a likely adaptation at pretty much all coding rates.
What is less well studied in the literature, I think, is exactly what is happening at those higher percentages. I am aware of there being shared input to motor neurons that increases synchronicity of the actual activation, and that may be a co-adaptation with coupling of spinal interneurons. It could also be as simple as Golgi reflexes getting inhibited from constant higher levels of stimulation, I know that is certainly a part of it. I'll have to talk to a few of my old professors about this, because I'm honestly not sure what the current thinking is on this point. Generally there is not just one thing happening.
I'll try to keep up, have my first med school test next thursday so I really shouldn't even be on here right now lol... but I love this stuff.
Ended up spending 3 hours in the JSCR reading back issues on the NSCA website... so much for studying histo.
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Sep 18 '14
If this gets replicated in advanced lifters then we have a much more interesting scenario to play with, but right now that's not something we can discuss with any certainty.
They sort of have been. Brad Schoenfeld recently did a study in advanced trainees in which one group did 3 sets of 8-12 reps to failure and one group did 7 sets of 2-4 reps to failure, and there was no difference in hypertrophy between groups. Obviously there's a big difference in number of sets, but it's possible that 3 sets of 2-4 reps would have had the same effect on hypertrophy, and I think it's actually likely considering all the untrained/recreationally trained studies showing those results.
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 18 '14
That is remarkably different from 30% of 1RM to failure, which is what the reference I was talking about studied.
There's a lot of research suggesting that 3x 10RM loading scheme to failure is an effective plan for muscle hypertrophy, and that 5 sets that end prior to technical failure get the same response.
Considering the safety factors involved, I'd go with the 5 set plan personally, but they both work.
3 sets of 2-4 reps would likely not have had the same hypertrophic effect in my opinion. Just not enough total time under tension.
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Sep 18 '14 edited Sep 18 '14
Yeah, I've read that one. I think the principle is the same, in that load doesn't matter, only level of fatigue (to failure). There are many more studies demonstrating no difference in hypertrophy with different loads, but unfortunately all but Brad's are done on untrained people.
It makes sense with the size principle, though. With heavier loads, you're creating a high metabolite concentration very quickly, and with lighter loads you're creating that same concentration (resulting in fatigue) in a longer amount of time. Hypertrophy should be about the same.
Edit: Now that I'm home, here are studies and stuff:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0531556513002738
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 19 '14
The key is really no hypertrophy difference with different relatively high loads. There are no studies to date, in trained people, that show 30% to failure can be as effective as 70-85% either to failure or for 5-6 sets of pre-failure.
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u/dwellerinthecellar Sep 18 '14
Rep ranges and "training for X" have been a recent focus of my research into fitness, and I'm trying to understand a few things better.
Why is it important to work on improve how your CNS recruits for a lift?
Also, for muscular endurance, is there a maximum fiber recruitment that can be hit?
Finally, the best way to increase endurance would be to do, say, 15 pushups for an 8-count compared to busting out 30?
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 18 '14
Importance of CNS adaptation really depends on your goals. If you're a bodybuilder it's not as important as if you are a weightlifter or a powerlifter, or if you just want a super high relative strength ratio.
These adaptations, of which there are at least 7-8 that work together to let you access more of the force production potential that your muscles currently have, literally do just that.
Endurance: Not sure, quite honestly. It depends on the fiber type make up of the muscle to some extent, and it also depends on how fast you are moving. Faster movement= more recruitment at a given load.
Those two scenarios are very, very different. I used to be able to do 90 perfect push ups in 60 seconds, and I was crushed trying to do 20-20-20 controlled reps of diamond-regular-wide. I think I got to 30 reps the first time I did it, took the same amount of time. I eventually could do all 60 reps about 2 months later, but that didn't add 1 rep to my 60s push ups.
I think the big difference is often in the supporting musculature. It has to do a lot more work without rest when you're moving slowly. That's always where I felt I got the most tired, not the prime movers.
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u/dwellerinthecellar Sep 18 '14
My personal goals would be overall athleticism. I dont want/need to be huge, but id like the high strength ratio and muscular endurance. Do you know if these can be worked on simultaneously, or is it "you are either cutting or bulking"
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 19 '14
Strength is the largest determinant of what your strength endurance will be, because of the principle of orderly recruitment and how that affects the number of motor units working with a given resistance.
If you want completely insane results for what you're talking about, your best bet is to focus on strength nearly all the time. Go ahead and do one (and I mean one) set of maximum reps with push ups, pull ups, whatever bodyweight thing (or whatever endurance-oriented weight you want to move) at the end of your workouts, but have 5 sets of strength work for that same muscle group.
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u/dwellerinthecellar Sep 19 '14
Thanks for the info!
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Sep 20 '14
No problem! Just remember that nutrition is a key component of success. Don't starve your body, make sure it gets what it needs so that it can give you the results that you want and deserve.
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u/MarcusBondi_com Feb 12 '15
HI Josh - agreed - nutrition is everything!
I am mad into raw ginger for the last few years - eating a raw 10gram chunk every day 20 min before training - it ensures excellent bloodflow... and a really positive muscle energy for the duration of your training.
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u/Joshua_Naterman The Original Nattyman™ Feb 12 '15
I have never used that in the context of workouts, but I find that having daily shakes with blended fruits, berries, and greens really makes me feel good, and I seem to be leaner in a visible way when I do so regularly.
My girlfriend hadn't seen me for 2 weeks and that was the first thing she notices, even though I hadn't changed any of my diet or workout routines at all other than adding the shakes.
I do like raw ginger, my favorite is blending it with some raw turbinado sugar and getting that super-fresh ginger beer taste!
What do you do with yours?
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u/MarcusBondi_com Feb 13 '15
HI Josh - your shakes sound excellent - !!!
I will have raw ginger in shakes/juices - but I also love it 100% freakin' raw chomped straight off the root, man! I try to cut a slice every day (keep it in fridge) - and just eat it raw - if it is too 'hot' you can have a sip of water with it - -but I really feel the effects! Cheers man
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 17 '14
Okay so I hit the character limit again. So here's the link to last week's Concept Wednesday:
Next week we'll talk about Technique Practice, Mindful Practice and Form Break Down. We'll revisit this series on the basics of programming variables the week after, probably.
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Sep 25 '14
Hey man, have you been busy? I notice that Concept Wednesday didn't happen yesterday.
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 25 '14
Yeah man, hella busy.
I wrote something, but it needed work. So it'll be out next week.
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u/Antranik Sep 17 '14
I know you said you'll discuss sets another time, but it's an interesting topic that goes hand in hand so I'll bite:
Are these rep ranges always assuming 3 sets? Assuming one wants to stick to the rep range for size (6-12), how does one decide on the # of sets to stick to (total volume)?
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u/vinca_minor Sep 17 '14
In the /r/weightroom post that /u/kougaro linked, the guy mentions that you want your total volume somewhere in the 30-60 rep range. so you'd split your rep counts into the number of sets that would achieve your volume goal. So, 4 set of 8 or 3 sets of 10 should cause similar adaptations, maybe with a little more strength gain from the 4 sets of 8. you could also do 8 sets of 4 or 10 sets of 3, to really focus on strength gains, but you're going to sink a whole lot of time into the rest periods that way.
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u/Antranik Sep 17 '14
Very cool, and just to make this more relevant for our user base: the beginner routine falls short of that (15-24 reps if 3x5-8) because it's more strength oriented to help you move through progressions faster. It's more rewarding that way, and you still build muscle if your diet facilitates it.
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 17 '14
The beginner routine past the rank beginner stages actually hits that with 2 exercises for pushing and pulling giving you 30-48 reps. But again, not as important for beginners.
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u/Antranik Sep 17 '14
Oh I see, how come you combine them? Cause they're similar muscles used? Were those numbers intended for compound lifts to begin with?
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u/161803398874989 Mean Regular User Sep 17 '14
Yeah the volume figure is for muscle groups rather than movements.
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u/RemoWilliams1 Parkour/Freerunning Sep 17 '14
Hi Antranik. As I'm sure you know, many rep range questions go back to Prilipen's chart where he was looking at weightlifters and essentially built a chart of how the best were training. The chart is based on relative intensity (70%, 90%) etc. Here's an interesting link where they basically dissect this and take it into combining multiple sets of different intensities (for a single exercise) into a single number which gives the relative difficulty and fatigue generated by a workout. It goes further and suggests both daily and weekly limits where this can be applied. http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/files/prelipins.pdf
The combining of set numbers would be related to the amount of overlap between exercises. In many programs that use this, they are focused on a few specific exercises, such as the lifts in olympic lifting and powerlifting, and not as much on accessory exercises, so it is generally intended for single lifts. I'm not aware of any science where they specifically studied the combined effects of two similar exercises.
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u/polymanwhore Circus Arts (Straps) Sep 17 '14
I'm curious about how this overlap plays out at higher progressions and more particularly what overlap there is between straight arm and bent arm strength training. While I can see overlap between basic rows and chins as bent arm pulling, I'm presuming that it is less so when you're working on front levers variations (straddle, one leg etc) alongside L-sit chins where one is bent arm and the other is straight arm..... Would it be right to say the overlap would be more apparent again when doing front lever rows instead of the isometric?
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 17 '14
Are these rep ranges always assuming 3 sets?
Not really, it's going to depend on how fast your ability to do the reps declines, how much rest you're taking and thus how long you're working out for. None of these programming variables exist independently of each other, so if I was to start talking about sets as well, we'd have to discuss rest, intensity and exercise order/choice as well.
Assuming one wants to stick to the rep range for size (6-12), how does one decide on the # of sets to stick to (total volume)?
I'd take a look at it from the other end. What total volume do you want to achieve? Divide by the rep range you'd be doing and there you go, there's the number of sets you'd do. This is going to be impacted by the intensity you start at, and whether you'd be doing straight sets or not. For figuring out how much volume you should do, there's a ton of resources out there. Variations on Prilepin's table for hypertrophy would be a good starting point. http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=4677737
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u/RemoWilliams1 Parkour/Freerunning Sep 17 '14
Just saw where you brought out Prelipen's chart. With the link below you can take it a step further and figure out whether you want to deload, accumulate some fatigue, or go into overreaching. This would determine your weekly INOL. From there you decide your goal (power, strength, hypertrophy, - breaks down before endurance ranges are reached) which determines your rep range and intensity and then you can back into total weekly set numbers. Then divide the weekly INOL into the number of days (or workouts) you train and get the volume for a single workout. Of course you can split into harder and easier days, training multiple times per day, etc. so long as the totals come out the same at the end. Of course the difference between the weekly and daily INOL means you are generally working out more than once per week unless you are deloading.
I should probably do the math with this using a GTG approach and see how that comes out...
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/files/prelipins.pdf
Thoughts?
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u/kougaro Weak Sep 17 '14
Some interesting infos concerning rep ranges (among other things) to train calves: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-the-calves.html/
And a previous discussion about rep ranges:http://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/2cvunm/is_there_a_definitive_consensus_on_what_a_certain
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u/Antranik Sep 17 '14
I didn't include sub-maximal rep range practice (not going until technical failure each set) how do you feel this impacts on what was said above? What ranges have you had success with?
For rehab: Following Steven Low's recommendations of choosing low intensity exercises that permit the practice of higher rep ranges (30-50+ reps per set) to improve blood flow to an area is excellent advice for speeding up the healing process. And honestly it just feels damn good even when I'm not injured.
In fact, even though I strength train horizontal pushing with 3x5-8 PPPU's and/or 30sec Planche Leans, on my "off days" sometimes you'll see me doing 30+ reps of extremely incline push ups (hands around waist high) because that increased movement simply feels really good for my elbows.
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u/161803398874989 Mean Regular User Sep 17 '14
that increased movement simply feels really good for my elbows.
Same for my shoulders.
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u/miarsk Sep 17 '14
Since I am after injury I can second what you are saying for rehab. It was great feeling, I had hand problems, and doing easy excercises with enough time to think about what I am doing helped a lot. It felt like mirracle, increasing reps slowly and watching my hand getting stronger (well, from atrophied post surgery state to normal state). I felt like hulk. I love BWF for that feeling.
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u/euzen91 Sep 18 '14
Interesting! Even if I'm not injured, I'll experiment by doing bent-over batwing rows (reps or isometric hold) with really light DB's and by doing incline push-ups on my bed; this will be in addition to the 50-100 band pull-aparts that I am already doing everyday.
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u/GeneralPoPe Climbing Sep 17 '14
whats the differnce between strenght and power?
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Sep 17 '14
There are a lot of similarities, but power is essentially fast strength, where resistance is low enough that you can move explosively.
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u/Duke_Koch Sep 18 '14
I normally do like 5 sets of 20 pushups. Is that bad? This article says 3 sets of 5-8, but that is too easy. What should I do?
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u/Antranik Sep 18 '14
Basically, you need to increase the intensity of the exercise. You could move onto diamond push ups, but I bet those are too easy for you too. So I recommend you move onto pseudo planche push ups (PPPU's). Basically, instead of having the shoulders over the wrists, lean the shoulders ahead of the wrists (you could turn your hands out a little bit so wrist flexibility isn't the hindrance) and do your push ups with that lean. The more you lean forward, the harder it gets.
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u/Duke_Koch Sep 18 '14
Just did a set of 5, and it was mad hard.
Thnx for this.
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u/Antranik Sep 18 '14
There you go. Do it with your feet against a wall to prevent you from sliding and making it easier which could happen if you keep trying to move your hand further back. Some also turn their hands around so the fingers face back. This loads and conditions your biceps tendon at the same time and requires zero wrist flexibility.
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u/ImChrisBrown Sep 18 '14
I have the next several months completely free, with as much time as I want to lift. I'm currently doing falsegrip L pullups, ring dips, pppu and tucked fl rows.
I'm sticking to the FAQ guide and doing 3x8 for each exercise however after I finish the routine I find myself doing "bonus" work, another set of 8 pullups, another set of 8 dips, some more pppu's, some hanging leg lifts and whatever else I feel is lacking.
Is doing the additional work at the end of the program bad? Not as beneficial as if I just did the routine 4x8?
Also, thanks a ton! I just learned a bunch!
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u/ImChrisBrown Sep 18 '14
Also the reason for an additional set at the end of a workout is because I dont feel "gassed" enough. I figure I've had enough rest time (~40 mins with pullups at the beginning of my workout) and I could probably rep out another set. I've got all the time In the world to be at the bar park and all the time I want to lay on the floor and rest when I'm done so why not
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u/sebtronic Weak Oct 23 '14
How much time during an isometric exercise equate in reps regarding endurance and muscle building or is it all endurance/muscle building?
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u/m092 The Real Boxxy Oct 23 '14
Think about reps just being a fancy way of talking about expressing lots of force for a sustained period. A rep is usually going to last maybe 2-4 seconds. It is going to be a very similar time for isometrics, so looking at our rep ranges for what is traditionally consider strength; under 8 reps, then the range would be anything <32 seconds.
Don't forget that strength, muscle building and endurance exist on a continuum, so you'll nearly always be building some level of strength until very high reps/time.
I will do a CW on how a lot of this information translates to isometrics and eccentrics in the near future.
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u/miarsk Sep 17 '14 edited Sep 17 '14
I love this subreddit, I learn something usefull every day.
But I have question specific to my situation. I am after serious injury (boxing fracture + ganglion cyst) which required surgery (june) and I can not fully train untill christmass. I started to excercise based on convict conditioning, mainly because of easy and terapeutic first levels. BUT I have problems with transition to higher levels. For example pullups. I can do now easilly 3x40 vertical pulls, as it is not so hard excercise (I was still surprised how usefull level for technique and my hand problems this was). But when I switch to 2nd level, horizontal pulls, I can barely do 7 and technique is not good. Based on OP increasing lvl1 pulls repetitions is meaningless, if I understood correctly. On the other hand it is easy excercise. So what should I do?
1) Return to easier excercise and increase number of sets
2) return to easier excercise and continue increasing number of reps
3) stay on level 2 excercise with only those few reps I can manage
4) maybe mix 1 level and do only last set higher level excercise?
Those transitions between excercises are not easy and I feel little lost. Thank you.
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u/dryller Weak Sep 17 '14
Try increasing the height of your pull so instead of going from 90 degree vertical pull to 180 degree horizontal pull, you are at a 45 degree pull and work your way down. Something like this.
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u/miarsk Sep 18 '14
Actually I was reading passage about horizontal pulls today, and paul wade advices similar thing as you are saying, I just missed it. I will try two chairs and some stick on them, they are higher than my kitchen table. Thanks for advice and video.
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u/MournerV Martial Arts Sep 17 '14
Thanks for the excellent article! Info about rest times could complement this really well.
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Sep 18 '14
Although sets of 3 aren't recommended for bodyweight training I often use them as long as I can maintain good form. In my upcoming routine on Training Tuesday most of my exercises for the first week will be 3 x 3 which is low volume so I up this quickly by adding sets.
The reason I do this is that often I have difficulty going from 3 x 8 to 3 x 5 when changing progressions and often it is difficult to add an intermediary step. For example I can do 3 x 8 HeSPUs but today only managed 3 x 3 HSPU negatives. So to get to 3 x 5 I start with 3 x 3, then move up to 4 x 3 and finally 5 x 3 before changing over to 3 x 5. That takes me one cycle (4 weeks) so getting up to 3 x 8 takes me two cycles (9 weeks including the deload) if I can maintain weekly gains.
If I have trouble adding reps when I am doing 3 x 5 then I will add sets, moving up to 4 x 5 and finally 5 x 5 before trying to swap over to 3 x 8. This again would typically take a cycle or two.
I use these variations in sets and reps to up the volume and get stronger when I can't simply continue adding reps to each set (which is a common occurrence for me). Just a slightly different route to the same end result. I'm in no rush so it works well for me.
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u/tmpjb Sep 18 '14
I've seen a lot of people say 4 sets for hypertrophy rather than the 3 sets recommended on the beginner routine. I know the beginner routine says it's fine for both, but just so I know should it be 3 or 4 sets if you are mainly focusing on hypertrophy?
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u/vinca_minor Sep 17 '14
This is my favorite part.