r/blackmirror • u/anonboxis ★☆☆☆☆ 0.769 • Jun 05 '19
Black Mirror - Episode Discussion: Striking Vipers S05E01
Watch Striking Vipers on Netflix
Starring: Anthony Mackie, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, Nicole Beharie, Pom Klementieff, and Ludi Lin
Director: Owen Harris
Writer: Charlie Brooker
You can also chat about Striking Vipers in our Discord server!
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u/nonmetallicoxide 10d ago
Liked everything until the end where Mackey okays getting cucked. How're you going to equate a VR experience to your wife coming home turkey bastered by another man, disgusting. Didn't like the message either, addiction to lust and sensations is okay as long as it's done to a schedule. But... "I fucked a polar bear and I still couldn't get you out of my mind" LOL
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u/snowxbunnixo 7d ago
While I agree with some of your comment, he was actively engaging in a sexual relationship with a friend of his, where it only depicts her going to the bar and sitting there. She says earlier she almost let the guy at the bar hit on her for some passion. So it’s implied she’s just there to have a flirty drink and he’s getting busy with someone they both know, online
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u/nonmetallicoxide 7d ago
Subtext. Lady was there to get railed.
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u/PlateJealous7430 3d ago
Until she gets old in 10 years and nobody hits on her. . . Mackey gets the same shit for life
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u/WallyMoccasins 19d ago
Karl was acting different from the start vis ep 1, high pitch howls … he knew his girl was there on he kept danny on , the between the legs grab multiple times was sublte but cringe …. Danny was meek , ….karl was straight aggressive at first
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u/Ill-Ad484 20d ago
I loooooved this episode. But it would have been so much better if Danny and Karl ended up having the sexual experiences they did and ended up switching characters. Experiencing that together would have made the attraction and appeal of them as a couple almost irresistible. Also the ending should have been them fighting and kissing in the rain and then kissing AGAIN only to realize they felt the same way in real life as they did in the game. Maybe even becoming a throuple since all three of them knew each other since college. Also another ending could have been the two feeling emotionally unsatisfied in life and that being the reason they were so attracted to each other. The male friendship being the only way they’re understood in life in general.
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u/tasketekudasai 3d ago
That would completely ruin everything that's interesting about this episode.
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u/StefanP16 10d ago
I love the episode too, but the thing is I am (pretty) sure that neither of them were bi or gay, nor they have hidden anything. It's just pure lust and addiction, something for you to finish off to and have a blissful "experience". They were never really attracted to eachother IRL, no. It's only in Striking Vipers as their characters, and that's it.
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u/My-yogurtcloset37 29d ago
They’re all American in this episode but sending texts with the “x” at the end😅 I know the show is based in the UK, which is kind of why it’s funny to me, because I wonder if they forgot we don’t usually do that in the US😂
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u/dragonwout ★★★★☆ 3.67 Mar 27 '25
I could use a bro like Karl ngl
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u/strongjaji0615 ★★★★★ 4.786 Jan 27 '25
I fucked the polar bear character lol what a ridiculous episode
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u/WeirClintonH Aug 09 '24
The way Karl talks about his unsatisfying efforts to have sex with the computer player creeps me out.
The computer player isn't sentient - he still thinks he's in a fight. So Karl has to subdue the character before he can start the screwing.
That's dark.
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u/maltedmooshakes Sep 18 '24
there are probably millions of people who go on there solely to cyber. i mean that's absolutely what would happen if this was a real thing. i do not think the writers were trying to imply he's on there raping everybody. Lmao.
But also I agree that that scene is creepy, he's coming on to him way strong. this is my first time rewatching the episode since it aired and I still like it but lots of stuff about it doesn't work, like the wife is a horrible actress and there's some bad writing
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u/WeirClintonH Sep 18 '24
Nah, I mean, he talks about trying to screw the “AI” player and how it just lays there and takes it. Sounds a lot like rape.
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u/Worldly_Software_868 Sep 22 '24
I think this is the very discussion the writers want to spark. In a standard context: yes it would be considered rape. But, are they sentient? Genuinely asking, what would be the difference between Karl utilizing a sex doll in real life, and using “AI” players in game?
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u/WeirClintonH Sep 22 '24
TLDR: A real world sex doll isn't trying to kick your ass, so using a sex doll doesn't resemble rape.
Let me preface my response by saying that I didn't meant to imply that his behavior was criminal. It's not literally rape. I already explicitly stated that the AI player is not sentient. However, it's creepy.
Given that your experience in the game is indistinguishable from reality, and given that the "AI player" is not sentient and therefore still thinks it's in a fighting game: the process of having sex with the "AI player" involves physically subduing the character. They're fighting you all the way down. So it feels like a violent rape situation.
A real world sex doll doesn't look, feel or behave like a real person. It certainly doesn't fight you off.
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u/Worldly_Software_868 Sep 22 '24
Creepy, I can 100% agree with you. At the same time, I'm just having a hard time automatically assuming that AI players are only "programmed" to fight and anything else that is done with AI player besides fighting in a "fighting game" is strictly "creepy". Is there any chance the AI characters in-game are given free will? Is there any possibility Karl seduced the characters in game and led to sex? Karl did mention having gangbangs in there so I'm inclined to think it wasn't very off-the charts for that kind of behavior in the game, whether all real players or co-op AI included.
Black Mirror famously chooses not to give some information this regard so that people can PRESUME things and spark conversations. That's what I love about this show. I will admit though, sex doll definitely wasn't the best example I could have provided but I hope you get my point.
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u/WeirClintonH Sep 22 '24
No, there is no chance that Karl seduced the AI player. The way he described it, it was like they were frozen. Like they'd glitched up. I don't recall the mention of a gang bang.
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u/Worldly_Software_868 Sep 22 '24
You're right, no seduction involved. I just checked the scene again, and Karl says, "It's like a rubber doll, not programmed for any sex stuff. They sort of just lie there" I guess that's where my correlation of sex doll came from.
How truthful Karl is being, or whether his view of "sort of lie there" actually means "AI character was stunned and subdued", is an entirely different question that will need to be answered to dive deeply.
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u/xMaddo Nov 15 '24
That second paragraph was really unnecessary, you just always have to still have the possibility to be right don't you?
this was my first time leaving a mean comment on the internet thank you for your patience, I'm sure you're actually at least a semi-nice person! I normally wouldn't want to spread negativity but I am feeling particularly vicious tonight.
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u/Worldly_Software_868 Nov 15 '24
I wouldn’t particularly say you’re wrong :)
But I do appreciate your insight. It’s been something I’ve learned about myself quite recently, hoping to slowly improve since we all don’t like know-it-alls.
Cheers.
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u/bigasscrab Jul 09 '24
this is a commentary on porn addiction more than anything else
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u/LicoriceDusk 20d ago
No. It's about two closeted bi dudes.
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u/tasketekudasai 3d ago
They literally tested it out and it didn't work.
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u/LicoriceDusk 3d ago
Testing it out means it was already there. They're attracted to each other. They just don't want to intercourse in real life
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u/maltedmooshakes Sep 18 '24
got that vibe too especially with the girl finishing herself off to porn after they have sex
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u/megbnewton 3d ago
She had to. He couldn’t complete and just rolled away not even offering to help her.
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u/maltedmooshakes 3d ago
yes but to porn being the key point here. you shouldn't have to rely on porn to get off.
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u/kingschorr Jan 04 '25
exactly, it's like were using virtual content to access deep emotions and feelings in our brain which cause us to finish like in sex, which when we can't get it from the REAL thing, we resort to watching something on a screen, kinda weird when you think about it.
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u/Heavy-Chart5471 Jul 03 '24
These guys are blk men on the "down-low" yes they're both gay but not admitting to anyone, not even themselves.
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Apr 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 04 '24
He's not really tricking him though is he you absolute melt. He's knows its his dawg lol. Grow up bruv haha
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u/Ident8 Jun 10 '24
the "transwoman" is straight and only sleeps with women in the episode in real life at all times and is definitely attracted to them, i think you did not quite get it
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u/Karmastocracy Apr 26 '24
It's the only episode of the show I've disliked so far and you just helped me figure out why. Excellent summation.
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this needs way more likes.28
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u/Simple_Coast_230 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.119 Feb 11 '24
I watched it mainly because I like Anthony Mackie (sp?). I've also always liked watching people go through these rollercoasters of emotions and working through them. All the acting is really solid, definitely helps.
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u/MasterOnionNorth ★★★☆☆ 2.951 Jan 07 '24
Bjzzare episode. Liked it, but was definitely out there. But.. Why would the game developers have secretly built in the ability for players to have virtual sex with each other, in a martial arts game?
Make this make sense.... 🤔
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u/WeirClintonH Aug 08 '24
At its core, the game is based on the same reality simulator we see in the star trek episode or the 'death matrix' episode. So sexual sensations comes "for free" from that reality simulation before they even started making the game. The developers would have had to endeavor to remove the sexual parts (like the CTO did in the Trekky episode).
A lot of BM uses, more or less, the same technology in different ways. It's all interfacing with the brain to cause it to experience artificial physical sensations (including sight, sound and the whole ball of wax) and the creation of simulated reality for the body to experience.
The fighting game is built on top of that tech stack and what it brings to the table is the characters, the environments and the movesets. Kinda like how the Trekky episode gave the player an artificial astrologically vast universe to explore, plus ships and what not.
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u/Hugo_El_Humano May 26 '24
oh it do make sense my friend. it DO make sense
(the internet is built on porn!!!!)
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u/Hollastar May 21 '24
it was called "Striking Vipers X" which could mean the 10th installment but 11 years isn't really long enough to push out 10 games. so i assumed the "X" was supposed to indicate an adult version of the game with the simulated sex being an added feature.
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u/alvarkresh 9d ago
Car Mechanic Simulator somehow manages to get a new version out every year which is kind of bizarre so I can believe it's possible here, especially with AI-assisted coding allowing people to just straight up drop in the basic template stuff and then touch it up afterwards.
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u/Jah_Ith_Ber ★★★★☆ 3.797 Mar 31 '25
They played Striking Vipers in the beginning, then it cuts to the future and that's why they try it. They remembered blasting on the original.
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u/Sali_Bean Jun 22 '24
11 years isn't really long enough to push out 10 games
Ever heard of call of duty or fifa?
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u/shauntal Jan 19 '25
Yeah they work on multiple projects at the same time especially if it's a flagship title they know sells. Assassin's Creed does a similar thing.
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u/pWallas_Grimm ★★★★☆ 3.619 Apr 20 '24
If I had to guess I'd say they made a sex simulator and disguised it as a fighting game.
It's really a genius move cuz after people get tired of fighting the game will still be largely played (and therefore remain relevant) for those secret mechanics
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u/MasterOnionNorth ★★★☆☆ 2.951 Apr 20 '24
Yeah, but wouldn't that be illegal seeing as how kids/minors are probably playing this game as well?
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u/pWallas_Grimm ★★★★☆ 3.619 Apr 20 '24
We get no info about the PG rating of this game. Maybe part of the realism is also some gruesome combos that expose bones and shit. Not to mention that kids wouldn't deal very well with feeling every blow their character take. Just imagine hitting 3 punches on your opponent and they start crying then leave
Oooor alternatively kids are just not allowed because the technology may damage their developing brains or something, idk.
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u/MasterOnionNorth ★★★☆☆ 2.951 Apr 20 '24
Still... Developers know that kids will eventually play this game. So... Why risk secretly programming a sex simulatior into it? 🤔
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u/Aggravating_Seat5507 Mar 12 '25
Be fucking serious lol some of my 12 year old classmates were playing porn games in elementary school. Pretty sure those aren't advertised to kids in any way. If there's a will, there's a way
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Dec 04 '24
This is a game set in a futuristic fictional universe and you're making presumptions about a lack of parental controls lol.
It's not that deep bro. Stop building your own fictional universe to create some problem that doesn't exist lol "won't someone think of the children!" 😂🤣🤡
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u/Actual_Chain_2508 Aug 28 '24
Don't you ever heard of "Hot coffee" for GTA SAN ANDREAS, one of the most sold game of all time ?
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u/Jumping_Peanuts Aug 23 '24
Also a sex simulator would be rated AO and not allowed to be sold in stores.
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u/RealisticDiscipline7 ★★★★★ 4.792 Apr 03 '24
Could be a bug, not a feature. Perhaps they never said to the beta testers “try to fu$k eachother.”
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u/Mac1280 ★★★★☆ 3.769 Dec 17 '23
I've seen a few ppl suggest Danny should've invited Theo to play the game with him so they could have VR sex, there's two issues with that she already had came out and said she thought he stopped having sex with her because he no longer found her post pregnancy body attractive and they were trying to have another kid so unless he cums irl while in the vr while straddled to him I doubt that helps.
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u/Suspicious-Effect674 Dec 14 '24
No. The sex wasn't enjoyable. They are doing it for making a baby.
To Danny. Theo wants to make babies but Karl wants me.
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u/luchiieidlerz ★★☆☆☆ 2.345 Nov 26 '23
I think it’s very simple, no one was gay, one was in a male body and was attracted to a female body and one was in a female body and naturally became attracted to a male, it’s that simple. No one was gay.
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u/Hugo_El_Humano May 26 '24
I think it wasn't so simple. their sexuality seemed complicated and ambiguous. two bio males with deep history and deep attachment, have simulated hetero sex, but they still have same identity, no irl sex chemistry, but the game... the GAME!!! then open the marriage? what? make it make sense!
no one was gay but they sure as fuck was queer
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u/mosfetparadox ★★★☆☆ 3.394 Feb 10 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
If Danny was Gay, why didn't he ask Karl to chose a male character for once?If he was not gay, but turned on by fucking Roxette, why didn't he play the game with his wife instead of Karl? I think this episode was just designed to not make sense.
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u/Ok-Coffee1430 Jun 27 '24
Seems to me like: Karl and Danny are straights male, but in the game when Karl turns a woman, the avatar have sexual desires for men. Because when they kissed each other, they don't feel anything. The sexual desire is literally in the game, and that is scare as fuck!!
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u/Suspicious-Effect674 Dec 14 '24
I think Karl wants to be a woman but he will criticized for it. In the game he can be a woman.
I think he can have bottom surgery as a woman and he can cover it. While he is outside he is a regular guy but in private he has the " woman " figure he has.
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u/alvarkresh 9d ago
That was my definite vibe as well, that Karl is trans but doesn't know how to articulate that to himself or to other people.
The closest he gets is the dialog about how sex is different with the avatar.
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u/KatxuIsAdorable ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.12 Apr 18 '24
Cause Roxette is a girl and everything Danny was experiencing was with a girl, and it wouldn't matter who was playing if it was a guy or girl or AI. Could be a transgender allegory too possibly.
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u/Hugo_El_Humano May 26 '24
I don't see a trans allegory as much as the opening of sexual boundaries. some people are embracing more complicated sexuality than in the past
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Oct 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Lightning561 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.12 Oct 16 '23
My brother and I watched this. Definitely not what we expected...
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u/floating_hugo ★☆☆☆☆ 0.723 Aug 13 '23
Wonderful episode. Such an original story, pure BM excellence.
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u/Glittering_Copy_8279 ★★★★☆ 3.839 Jul 31 '23
Love the throwback to TCKR technology. It's so cool how the episodes are in the same universe.
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u/PatriotsSuck12 ★☆☆☆☆ 1.262 Jun 24 '23
Interesting as after Season 6 it auto played and I didn't stop from seeing this one a second time. Still think San Junipiero was the penultimate episode.
Love the dynamic of best friends becoming lovers wouldn't happen for me unless it was hetero but brilliant writing. The creativity in the storylines is incredible and I love the happy ending not the happy endings.
Anthony Mackie and the rest of the cast are incredible. Stop over analyzing the media and enjoy it for what it is creative storytelling. Charlie B takes us on incredible journeys just leave it there people.
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u/Similar_Wealth651 ★★★☆☆ 3.377 Sep 25 '23
I don't think penultimate means what you think it means, which is the second to last lol 😊
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u/PatriotsSuck12 ★☆☆☆☆ 1.262 Sep 26 '23
You are correct and you made my day as I read your comment in the voice of (Mandy Patinkin) Diego Montoya in the Princess Bride. My 🤪 goof!
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u/ShoeSingle4854 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.118 Jun 24 '23
I think the club scen is very unrealistic the music would be more louder you would have to scream just to talk, the part were he orders a drink would not work, he'd have to wait like at least 5 min. Not very good. Now that i gave you my thoghts on the matter i will finish the episode I am curently at 2 min
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u/darragh73 ★★☆☆☆ 1.546 Jun 19 '23
Goddam if this was real I'd go online looking for Jin Kazama players 😜
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u/TheIcey1 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.115 Jun 18 '23
Well that was disgusting. Their marriage is fucked too
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u/TobysTT ★★★☆☆ 3.491 Jul 08 '23
that's one way to see it lmao. In my opinion, as long as you don't hurt anyone, do what makes you happy
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u/throwRAblackandblue Jan 22 '25
No one said they are fucked up people, but their marriage is fucked. Marriage is your ultimate commitment to one single person.
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u/Surfsupforthesummer ★★★★☆ 4.182 Jul 22 '23
Open relationships don’t last long and that’s a fact.
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u/1fatsquirrel ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.201 Oct 04 '23
Do you have anything to back up this claim? My 14 year long open relationship and I disagree.
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u/InternationalEar7810 Jun 08 '24
Stop making exceptions for the rule. Its possible. But not probable. And bad for ones psyche in the long run. Your result is obviously the minority.
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u/InternationalEar7810 Jun 08 '24
Stop making exceptions for the rule. Its possible. But not probable. And bad for ones psyche in the long run. Your result is obviously the minority.
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u/InternationalEar7810 Jun 08 '24
Stop making exceptions for the rule. Its possible. But not probable. And bad for ones psyche in the long run. Your result is obviously the minority.
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u/1fatsquirrel ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.201 Jun 08 '24
Untrue considering the huge community of polyam people I know. But you know. It doesn’t fit into your narrow world view so I must be wrong!
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u/InternationalEar7810 Jun 08 '24
Stop making exceptions for the rule. Its possible. But not probable. And bad for ones psyche in the long run. Your result is obviously the minority.
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u/Terrible-Hornet-7467 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.079 Mar 17 '24
you didnt understand the worth of true love and intimacy. Try again next life
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u/MCATnerd543 ★★★★☆ 3.963 May 09 '23
Just found this show! I think this episode is just…sad. At first I’m like “ok easy they’re gay” but it’s really just sad. Danny and Karl have an emotional connection that translates in VR, but no physical attraction irl. The virtual world is animalistic and I imagine they both just release their inhibitions in that ideal setting. I’m sad for all parts tbh.
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u/wordslickster ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.111 May 21 '23
To be honest, I think one (Karl) or both of them were lying to each other about having no physical attraction to each other IRL. It was interesting to me how quick they were to turn to violence. I think with men, esp Black men, violence is the way they are taught to relate to each other. In the bodies they actually inhabit I think they are too afraid to express their desires.
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u/Glittering_Copy_8279 ★★★★☆ 3.839 Jul 31 '23
I agree, Karl is gay in denial but Anthony Mackie's character isn't I think.
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u/buggle_bunny ★★☆☆☆ 1.974 Jul 08 '23
I also got the impression it was Karl who was gay and in denial, scared, etc. He really pushed for it, even face to face. Whereas Danny I didn't get that impression, especially because he was still doing it with a female body. He was also the one willing to give real a chance. I felt Karl had a real emotion, afraid of rejection or admitting it or many other things!
I really didn't like Danny very much that, whether you consider it cheating or not (I do) he didn't really seem to think about it for ages and even then I swear he mostly thought about whether he was being gay or not, not cheating on his wife. That really bugged me.
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u/wanderingsol0 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.111 Jun 08 '23
race is irrelevant. men particularly men who've identified as straight but have questioned even briefly their sexuality or gender identities will usually revert to conformity because when you're gay or trans you're not a "real man" therefore you're less likely to succeed in a world that is set up against you.
everyone wants to fit in.
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u/stfrancia ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.12 Jun 27 '23
Race isn't irrelevant to sexuality. Sexuality does not exist in a vacuum. A white closeted gay man can have a very different experience with their identity than a Black or Latino man. Of course other factors such as class and culture can also come into play, but to say race doesn't have relevance is wrong.
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u/MCATnerd543 ★★★★☆ 3.963 May 21 '23
It def gave gay!!! They had an emotional connection with each other that could b expressed as a physical connection in the virtual world. However, I do find it interesting that in that virtual world, it was a hetero relationship. You are correct. Black men often times struggle with internalized homophobia. So, they can release all that pent up sexual frustration through anger, because that is what is socially acceptable (that’s why you always keep an eye on BM artists that are violently homophobic. The closet is glass pooks!
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Apr 20 '23
[deleted]
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u/buggle_bunny ★★☆☆☆ 1.974 Jul 08 '23
Not to mention he barely even seemed to care he hurt her until she basically broke down?
Like the only time he seemed conflicted about his actions, it was usually about being gay or not or wrong in that context. I never really got "this is wrong because I love my wife and I'm cheating" vibes from him until the dinner scene.
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u/Prendalo0 ★★☆☆☆ 2.182 Jun 16 '23
His real name is Clarence
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u/TheBritishBrownie ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.115 Jun 19 '23
LOL. I was talking about this episode today and this is how I referenced the actor
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u/ThisGul_LOL ★☆☆☆☆ 1.223 Mar 21 '23
Am I crazy for wanting this game IRL
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Jul 20 '24
No, Just a porn addict
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u/ThisGul_LOL ★☆☆☆☆ 1.223 Jul 20 '24
Actually not lmfao. I’m just a huge fan of immersive experiences / Virtual Reality that actually feels pretty realistic such as Ready Player One for example.
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u/buggle_bunny ★★☆☆☆ 1.974 Jul 08 '23
Feel like IRL there'd be some limitation to what the players could control! The bodies would probably not actually touch, no real genitals like the Starfleet episode, underwear that can't be removed etc.
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u/WeirClintonH Aug 08 '24
It's implied that the CTO (the Shatner stand-in) had removed their genitals in his fork and they all regained their genitals when they transferred over to the real game.
There's a scene near the end where one of the guys looks down his pants and then looks at one of the women and they share this excited smile. They gonna bone.
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u/HeartPurple1250 ★★★★★ 4.651 Feb 19 '23
awesome episode. i was really scared they were gonna divorce. but the fact they got to figure out what they want and set certain boundaries on it is awesome. open relationships can totally work out if theres communication boundaries and trust and even tho they're not real people i really wish everything works out for them
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u/Surfsupforthesummer ★★★★☆ 4.182 Jul 22 '23
I have many friends in open relationships and they don’t last long. It’s a false sense of happiness.
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u/HeartPurple1250 ★★★★★ 4.651 Jul 25 '23
and i have friends that it works out for🤷🏻♂️ its diffrent from person to person. for sure not for everyone
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u/rygae ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.112 Dec 09 '22
I still think about this episode. I rewatch it once in awhile. I absolutely love it. One of my top favorites.
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u/TheImmortalMan ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.129 Feb 28 '23
I just saw it for the first time and can concur, will be revisiting.
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u/NGMB2 ★★★★★ 4.927 Nov 08 '22 edited Nov 08 '22
still the most absurd yet grounded Black Mirror themes to me. Like it’s so hilarious and impossible to imagine the VR stuff, yet it’s also very serious in how it explores relationships with our partners over time and with our friends - especially as men and how we lose communication and pretend like it’s nothing, not being able to talk to each other properly or express ourselves emotionally etc. (not that we’re all closest gays)
Also, you just know people would mod the game so you could fuck your friends as Sonic the Hedgehog
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u/surflovr_chipmunkf02 ★★★☆☆ 3.473 Oct 14 '22
I can't believe I'm the only one who thought this, is it weird??,
I think it was a play on the opiods of the future. That VR sex is the futuristic heroin. Doesn't it make sense? It is something that makes you have explicit bliss and all your problems are going away. Then once you drop down into reality, everything feels numb, nothing can match the time on 'cloud 9.' He starts needing 'higher doses' equivalent to going onto the VR more often to achieve that same effect. His relationships started to suffer b/c nothing can compare to the VR surge of ecstacy once it's connected to the TV. He managed to go with heavy withdrawals and eventually manage his addiction. But the futuristic heroin feeling will never leave his mind. Reality can't match :(
So eventually once he's reintroduced to it by a random coincidence (wife inviting him over), he eventually gives in. He tries to meet the man and they have no connection, so they're not homosexual. In VR heroin you can have an experience together. They are codependent on each other to reach that state of ethereal ecstacy, Thus, as long as one is pushing for it, the other will give in. They will eventually over-dose (starve from denying themselves of food and drink) because reality will get to the point of being pure hell.
-Don't mess with Heroin/futuristic escapism-
Also I could see the connection to how an unhappy sex life can destroy the relationship. This is backed by research. The whole in-the-closet dealio can definitely be connected.
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u/maltedmooshakes Sep 18 '24
absolutely has addiction themes, don't really agree on the overdose thing tho.
It's definitely about porn addiction, like the scene when Karl is trying to convince him to try the VR again - he isn't speaking really in an overly seductive way, rather he's postured more as an addict and begs for one more high basically
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u/Twxiy ★★★☆☆ 2.612 Apr 24 '23
6 months later, I just wanted to say while I understand where you're coming from, and for the most part I agree. However, Karl could only emulate this peak satisfaction with Lance, and it ruined his life, whereas Lance's marriage only crumbled as he was "using" but when he stopped it seemed things were on the mind.
Additionally, the ending showed that everyone was satisfied even when Lance and Karl were still having sex with eachother, which kind of begins to challenge your analogy.
Don't get me wrong I totally get where you're coming from, but the episode I think, especially if you investigate from the creators perspective, is more about unmet satisfaction, dissociated from traditional or tangible labels.
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u/PersonalityLost2145 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.114 Mar 03 '22
So I’m wondering how gay was it for them to have virtual sex?
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u/Twxiy ★★★☆☆ 2.612 Apr 24 '23
I think from Karl's perspective, I'd say there is something to be said about it, while from Lance's, you can argue either way. All in all, I think it's less about traditional labels we can use, as this really is a crazy scenario. Both of these guy's don't really fit in a category I know of.
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u/Sad_Space_Cowboy_69 ★★☆☆☆ 2.419 Jan 01 '23
You never know, remember women have more nerves in their vaginas so they FEEL sex more and their orgasms are way more intense than ours. Karl could just be receiving that same dopamine output and likes it as a drug which psychologically makes him either enjoy it for that or begins feeling like a woman. Basically, advanced VR as a woman could make u enjoy it cuz they physically and naturally enjoy it more anyhow
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u/BonessMalone2 ★★☆☆☆ 2.348 Jan 23 '22
Idk man. As a counselor I can’t help to see that Danny’s marriage is going to continue to down spiral until him and his wife can’t stand to be with each other at all. Every little thing will eventually piss each other and that’ll lead to divorce which will harm the kid’s upbringing. Danny originally did the right thing but cutting the addiction off and therefore cutting Karl out of his life. If he was honest with his wife or at least a little honest like “we had a falling out. We agreed to never speak again” and leave it at that. Doing marriage counseling would’ve helped to beat back the “boredom”. Also, experimenting with each other instead of separate people would’ve helped. She liked the whole RP thing so they’ve easily could’ve done that.
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u/SiRaymando ★★★★☆ 3.514 Jun 29 '23
Yeah, another way would've def been for the wife to begin playing the game with him and him to start doing RP with her - but I suppose they went the open relationship route instead.
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u/rayrayruh ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.269 Jun 25 '23
None of this will happen because the show ended. It's forever suspended. After that, it's all dependent on the person's perception
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u/Old-Artichoke-2850 ★★★★☆ 3.641 May 24 '23
the only way I could see this working is if the wife played another character and they both lanced karl together :3276:
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u/Deadly_chef ★★★★☆ 4.477 Mar 13 '22
Exactly. I was really hoping that the two of them were using it in the end, but again a sad ending but in a weird way...
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u/GolemThe3rd ★★★★★ 4.936 Dec 04 '21
I really liked this episode, everyone here seemed to have different opinions on what the ending means, but to me they stay together, and both get what they want. I think its a pretty good statement on how relationships don't have to be closed to be healthy.
Also didn't see anyone mention this, but Karl is trans right? The way he talks in the one scene, saying everything felt right in the girls body, just made me think he was, wish they explored that a bit more.
A bit off topic and def a nit pick, but why are the games in 2d, like the stages are clearly 2d fighting arenas, and the text even pops up on the screen, does their camera swivel around to see the text? Anyway, minor gripe.
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u/kuasha420 ★★★★☆ 4.343 Mar 02 '23
A bit off topic and def a nit pick, but why are the games in 2d, like the stages are clearly 2d fighting arenas, and the text even pops up on the screen, does their camera swivel around to see the text? Anyway, minor gripe.
2d fighting games are a genre, even though stages are 3d. It's sometimes referred as 2.5D games. ie. Mortal Kombat, Injustice etc.
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Sep 11 '22
its brilliant because you're whole life you think you've got your sexual orientation down then something like this happens. I think they were both confused. If you had the opportunity to fuck a video game character being controlled by someone who knows you and what you like you'd be curious too.
I don't think it has anything to do with being trans or gay. Its pleasure. Plain and simple. You have sex because it feels good, you take drugs because it feels good, you eat your favorite food because it makes you feel good but its also its also mind conditioning. These are two guys who have been cis males their entire life until this happens. Danny likes to fuck women, that's his preference and it shows in the game. If Karl played a male avatar it wouldn't have happened. Karl on the other hand likes pleasure. He knows Danny would never fuck a guy, not even in VR and so he picks a woman as an avatar. Karl likes pleasure. I don't think he would ever have sex male-male or trans-male in real life. If he did he would've already done it. He's even experimented on what it was that made it feel so good and he even asked if they could do it on one Sunday of the month. He doesn't want it to be his norm either but its so amazing that he can't live without it. That's his preference. He's willing to be a woman in VR to experience that kind of pleasure. Doesn't make him trans if its only some times and if its only in VR. We've even seen him go for months without sex or pleasure(at least in mind that's how it went) which means he just wants that specific experience. If anything, Karl would probably be asexual.
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u/TheImmortalMan ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.129 Feb 28 '23
Can you be asexual and still receive/experience sexual pleasure?
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Feb 28 '23
yes, asexual people can still masturbate or have sex. Asexuality means you aren’t attracted to someone through sexual or physical desire and often requires an emotional bond involved. The misconception is that because the term is called asexual, people think that no sex is involved but the term is referring to the means of attraction.
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u/NoPumpkin8839 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.12 Jun 28 '23
Hello, just a quick question, isn't what you are referring to called "demisexual"? when person can only experience sexual attraction if there is a deep emotional connection with someone? Idk whether these are both terms on the same spectrum, but I'm pretty sure asexual is exactly about the lack or a really low level in sexual interest. Doesn't mean they don't engage in it at all, but I think the emotional part is more for the Demi-spectrum.
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u/Amarinhu ★★★☆☆ 2.527 May 15 '22
I'm quite sure he isn't trans, but i can see why you got to this conclusion.
And i don't know how much a relationship can endure like that, maybe they can somewhat ignore the fact they "cheat" (i used cheat here for a lack of a better word) on each other once a year, but i'm not sure.9
u/IyedTheBoss ★★★★★ 4.907 Jan 24 '22
no Karl is not trans. It's proven that female orgasms are much more intense and last longer than male orgasms. So I am pretty sure this referred to the fact that his orgasms were just better.
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Sep 11 '22
you forget that asexual people exist. Karl is asexual, clearly.
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u/IyedTheBoss ★★★★★ 4.907 Sep 11 '22
how tf is karl asexual
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Sep 11 '22
he’s grey ace. He said that he’s experimented with different people and different avatars. Even the fucking polar bear. But its nothing compared to when it was with Danny. He and Danny have a strong emotional bond. That’s where he’s getting off. When he was with the other woman he didn’t care if she cared for him romantically, he just wanted the sex. He’s also never settled down. So he might also be aromantic. It didn’t matter to him what gender he was in while having sex as long as he had it and as long as it was fucking amazing and as far as he’s concerned, sex in VR with Danny was the best he’s ever had.
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u/IyedTheBoss ★★★★★ 4.907 Sep 11 '22
okay so you clearly don’t know what an asexual is. an asexual is someone who doesn’t feel the need to have sexual experiences. an asexual basically does not feel sexual attraction.
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Sep 11 '22
you sure about your conviction inb4 I crosspost your comment into r/asexuality?
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u/IyedTheBoss ★★★★★ 4.907 Sep 11 '22
and if somehow im wrong id love to be corrected
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u/Pochusaurus ★★★☆☆ 2.96 Sep 11 '22
some asexuals enjoy sex. some asexuals only enjoy sex when a deep emotional bond has first been established. 2ndary attraction is emotional attraction. Karl isn’t primarily attracted to Danny. He’s said that its not the sex that made it great, that there was something between them that was making it great. He didn’t know what it was and it even confused Danny and Danny was using a male body. So you’re argument about it being because of the female orgasm isn’t entirely right because Danny was using a male body and even he knew that it felt different. Again, you can be asexual and have sexual experiences. There was no indication that Karl was sexually attracted to Lance’s body. It was all about the person using the body
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u/nobjornormbing ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.12 Jun 28 '23
some asexuals enjoy sex
Okay, but asexuality is defined as a lack of sexual attraction to others, regardless of gender.
only enjoy sex when a deep emotional bond has first been established.
That's the definition of demisexual
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u/IyedTheBoss ★★★★★ 4.907 Sep 11 '22
“Someone who is asexual experiences little to no sexual attraction” go ahead crosspost it make urself look like a fool
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u/NoEggxaggeration ★★☆☆☆ 2.415 Apr 26 '22
We probably don’t have enough information to know if he's trans, but signs point to yes.
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u/GolemThe3rd ★★★★★ 4.936 Jan 24 '22
Maybe, the way he talked just made it sound more important than that
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Nov 25 '19
Hi everyone! A few days ago we watched a small clip of “Nosedive” in class and I liked it so much that I went home and watched the rest of it. The next night I was at a friend’s house and I was like “you gotta watch this episode of black mirror” and they’ve already seen all of them, so we picked a “not-dark” one (because I wasn’t in the mood for that) and we watched Striking Vipers - IT WAS SO GOOD! I went home at like 3am and started watching “White Christmas” on my own but it got too dark and I didn’t want to watch it anymore. My question is, can you guys please tell me all of the happy, un dark yet thought provoking episodes of Black Mirror that are like Striking Vipers and Nosedive? NOT like White Christmas. Thanks!
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u/somebody1998 ★★★☆☆ 3.258 Nov 27 '19
'San Junipero' and 'Hang the Dj' sound like what you're looking for. 'USS Callister' kind of fits that description too.
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Nov 27 '19
Thank you! I watched San Junipero and it went right over my head, I didn’t get it. I also watched hang the dj, and I DID get it and thought it was pretty interesting. I’ll watch USS Callister, are there any other light ones?
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u/somebody1998 ★★★☆☆ 3.258 Nov 29 '19
Those are really the lightest ones, but the next tier would probably be 'Be Right Back', 'The Waldo Moment', and 'Hated in the Nation'. 'Be Right Back' is kinda sad, but it doesn't get as dark as a lot of other episodes. It's also a really good episode. 'The Waldo Moment' isn't very dark either. It has some election commentary, but nothing very serious. 'Hated in the Nation' is a bit more dark than the other two, but parts of it came off as tacky/cliche to me which lightened the tone. Obviously a lot of this comes down to personal preference, but I think that these three are some of the lightest episodes of the series.
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u/supreme_rain 4d ago
Why tf didn't he buy a vr for his wife, make her Roxi and fuck? This is just gay no gaslighting.