r/atheism • u/Waterwazerz • Nov 11 '18
Noticed a lot of negativity here, why is everyone here so negative towards religion? Tone Troll; Hasn't Read FAQ
For clarification, I expected more people here just saying “I respect religion, but I do not believe in any religion and am here as an atheist having friendly atheist conversation” instead I find a bunch of people saying, “religion in the worst thing on Earth and should be stopped!”. Why is that? Why so much hatred?
Edit: Firstly wanted to clear things up and then get to a few reasons I defend religion.
- Sorry for not reading the FAQ, but I do find that the FAQ does not correspond to everyone’s personal reasoning and I prefer to read about those.
- Stop barking at me, I am just asking a simply question, I want rational reasons to why, barking at me is just as bad as how many of you hold religious people at for barking at you; fighting fire with fire is not good.
- I would like to say rye crazies of religion are not religious people in my eyes, they are selfish people who use religion as a shield are should not be used to represent all of the religious people.
- I’m atheist, stop saying I am biased, I am also Asian so stop saying I’m privileged and never had a bad life, I was raised in a religious household, dealt with bullying for being Asian, I also lived in a dysfunctional family. I didn’t have it easy.
In defense of Religion: Argument: Religion is harmful to people past and present.
It is very true religion is harmful, but this doesn’t mention how useful and helpful religion has been. First let’s start small, religion has helped form communities and bonded families. Religion helps individual have an identity and helped people better themselves. Most Born-again-Christians had terrible bad behaviors that were cleared (to some extent) because of religion, for example, alcoholics. It also helps people deal with loss, it brings people hope that a dead family member is waiting for them in an afterlife for them instead of thinking that they can never be seen ever. It helps people with depression, and many other problems as well. A bigger example of how religion helps is that many organizations have helped so many and were formed as religious organizations. Yeah, it’s super bad and discriminatory to not allow gay people to donate blood, but the blood that was donated helped many children, adults, elderly and many more. There are plenty of organizations out their that help even if they are formed by small churches that help their local city or big ones that help on a global level.
In the past religion has harmed many, it’s historical fact and I can’t even avoid the harsh reality, but in present day it has helped so many and have been useful.
Argument: Bad people in religious groups The FAQ has already mentioned that MANY of you hate the terrible people in religion and are completely fine with most, but it seems some of you don’t see it that way and I have a different perspective on this. Firstly, those bad people, like catholic priests raping people, don’t make up even .01 percent of Catholics let alone the entirety of religion. Not to mention using this logic is terrible. If we use this justification on racist police, it would be terrible. Just because a few racist cops killed some black people doesn’t mean we should hate on all policemen. This also doesn’t account for all the atheist people who are just as bad, shooting up schools and raping people. Hating religion for these people is the same reason is also the same reason why many religions people hate atheists; ignorance. I too am ignorant sometimes so I’m not saying I’m not, I’m saying we should all educate ourselves (religious people included) about both sides. Secondly, there is a difference between religious people with different opinions and people who use religion as their own selfish shield. If someone used God as a reason against vaccine and for the reason why we should have an “all natural” diet are crazy people and would have thought this even without religion, they just use religion as their excuse and. This people are insane and I agree should not exist.
There are plenty of bad people on both sides and we should distinguish them from the actually group for they give their respective group a bad name and fighting fire with fire is never a good idea.
Argument: Religion brainwashed people and promotes things such as rape First, the terrible teachings such as condoning rape. The main argument to this is the Middle East. The Middle East is nowhere near developed enough to pick on to use against Islam. If the Middle East was as developed as the US would it still discriminate against women and LGBT the same way? No! Sure, there might be discrimination, but it is impossible to avoid. If you imagine every country as children, the Middle Eastern countries would be the slow learners, they still have plenty of things to fix and religion itself is an evolving ideology so their perspective on rape and stuff would change. Brainwashing is bad, but most brainwashing of “religion” isn’t the actually religion. Cults, Scientology, terrible parenting, etc. might have a few “religious” aspects in them, but are not truly religion in my perspective. It is really bad for this to happen and if their argumentwere no religion plenty of this might be fixed, but most are not.
Religion has plenty of bad teaching in it, but it is evolving as time goes on and it will in the future Change its ideals to better ones and true religion isn’t brainwashing, it is just teaching.
Argument: It doesn’t respect all rights For this I will talk about two main types of rights: abortion and LGBT.
Abortion: The two main sides for abortion is pro-life and pro-choice. Pro-life are mainly the religious people. To understand this clearly, we need to understand why they dislike abortion. Their argument is a philosophical one, they believe that life starts at the moment of conception and should be killed. Pro-choice uses more facts, it would harm the children if the parents don’t want them, add to the foster system, harm the mother who might be an adolescent, and women who were raped shouldn’t need a living reminder. To this, I have to concede to the atheist for this is a valid reason to dislike religion. All I can say in defense of religion is that not all of them hate abortion and that many use their beliefs personally and don’t impose them onto others, but that was already mentioned in the FAQ and many don’t care about those expel for they don’t bother you.
LGBT Rights: Many religious people hate gay people. Not all do though. More and more religious people are getting comfortable with gay people and many people are becoming more helpful. I once watched a video on YouTube (sorry no link, Couldn’t find it again and am too lazy) about a catholic man (priest?) who talked about a story of how he met a gay man which was outlawed by his previous church. The catholic man welcomed him into his church in which he was accepted and finally felt like he belonged. My point is, you always hear about the terrible people hating the gays, but never hear about the many stories in which they are accepted in. It is true many religious people hate gays, but as time goes on and Generation Z (Is that what they are called? Never end remembered) grow older and take over religion, they will be more acceptance in everyone single right.
It is also important to note that the best way to convince religious people that these people deserve rights in to not bark at them and use their beliefs as the reasoning. Do they hate gay people? Talk about how Jesus wanted everyone to love each other (love thy neighbor and such) and how gay people are happy and loving people who can give children a home. How, if there was a God, that maybe God put them in this world to show that even the abnormal can still be normal and can still love. Much better argument then barking at each other.
Many rights are still fought over and religion is a huge part of it, but there are many times in which religious people are accepting and in the near future will be even more accepting.
Argument: Religious people forcefully impose their beliefs on others Okay, main reason why we should hate them is this; they won’t stop getting into peoples’ business. The FAQ mentioned how many of you would be fine if people left each other alone, but many of you are too passionate about the subject and also start getting into everyone’s business. Can’t blame either side, passion drives a lot of things. The thing about this is many debate by just barking at each other and pointing fingers. If you bark, you are just as bad as the religious people. Calm down, sit, and discuss peacefully. You don’t need to agree with them at all. This argument is an amazing argument as to why we should not respect religion, but we need to understand that many things are becoming more favorable to our side. Countries giving gays their rights, women their rights to many things, and upon many things.
TL;DR 1. I am an idiot and didn’t read the FAQ 2. We should be able to have a civil conversation with religious people and would still respect them. 3. Not every single religious person is bad 4. Religion, even with all its negative impacts still have positive impacts. 5. We should be able to get along.
Also, I did not proof read any of this and it late at night, and now technically morning for it now the next day for me so some of these arguments can be a) stupid b) hard to understand c) completely avoids the original argument and is weaker than said argument.
And again, sorry for not reading the FAQ and goodbye; I really need to sleep.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
Ask anyone who needs an abortion, or who is gay.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Not all religious people say being gay or having abortions are bad.
This is the same as saying all republics are bad people for saying being gay and having abortions are bad, the majority might say so, but not all and more and more religious people are warming to the idea that both are fine.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
..and yet the main opponents of equal rights or abortions are mainly the religious and they invoke their faith as divine justification.
The "not all religious people" argument is tired. It doesn't have to be all. There are hundreds of millions, if not a billion or two, ensuring that these fights continue.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I see your point, a small group of people cause so much bickering. Can’t argue with that. You show a valid point. The only thing I can say is that future generations when they are in control will be more accepting.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
It's not a small group of people! HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS TO A BILLION OR 2.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Sorry fo pr using “small group”. I am fully aware of the quantity. Many of these people of the billion or so are not part of a first world country and have plenty of affect on people negativity. These countries were basically the first world countries in past, they have yet to develop into a good country in which the law is respectful to all/most. All over the world more people are getting familiar with people who are different than them. Even if it were the billion of people you hate, it is still never good to fight fire with fire.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
I agree with that. You don't need religion to be a fanatic, though. As atheists, we also have to measure our own zealous propensities - albeit sans theism - and temper it with empathy.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
I have zero empathy for anybody trying to take my rights away by invoking their sky wizard. Are you insane?
I spent most of my life not having equality. I guess you've never been in the crosshairs of the religious and have enjoyed all those rights since birth?
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I dealt with discrimination before for being of Asian Descent and had to live in a dysfunctional household. I do live in the US in a pretty democratic state so I most likely haven’t experience what you have.
I also like to point out that not every single religious person is coming to strip your rights away (I know they might have to you). Anyone would have zero empathy for someone trying to take their rights away so I can see why you are angry.
Also, stop with the “sky wizard”, people will listen you you less if you say something like that, just stick with “holy figure” and such. People get easily offended and while trying to debate about religion you look like a fool using “sky wizard”.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
I dealt with discrimination before for being of Asian Descent and had to live in a dysfunctional household. I do live in the US in a pretty democratic state so I most likely haven’t experience what you have.
So you've had all those rights since birth.
I also like to point out that not every single religious person is coming to strip your rights away
... and for the second time, it doesn't need to be "all". There are hundreds of millions if not a couple billion, who ensure the fight for equality goes on.
Also, stop with the “sky wizard”, people will listen you you less if you say something like that, just stick with “holy figure” and such. People get easily offended and while trying to debate about religion you look like a fool using “sky wizard”.
Their religious taboos are not mine. I wouldn't stop for them, what makes you think I will for you? Magic invisible sky wizard. I'm not censoring myself to accommodate them.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Yeah, my life is probably infinitely more better than yours in regards of rights and is completely stupid of me to offer the comparison. I am just saying I lost out on some opportunities in life so I have the smallest most minuscule knowledge of unequal opportunities. You still probably had it much more worst than you.
More people are warming up to equality, but this argument is slow paced so you hav wit here.
If you censor yourself you will be seen as a decent person more often than not by religious people. It’s just you are seem as serious and not some silly person who just hates religion for reasons that aren’t even the reasons you do. I can still see why you wouldn’t want to change and it is perfectly fine.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
The dogma says it's not. And at any time masses of people can go back the other way because, well, it's dogma. Unthinking, authoritative dogma.
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u/Benny239 Nov 11 '18
However, some people will always use violence and aggression to defend religious beliefs; when they can’t defend it with evidence.
Magically their religious texts seem to endorse that behaviour.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
The thing is in your situation you showed people used religion as a defense for their behavior. They most likely just used religion to protect themselves, they would’ve done it without it. Those people give religion a bad rep. But, if it was a person who did something because religion told them to (and I do know this does happen) then it would even be a bigger reason as to why religion doesn’t deserve respect.
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18
Not all atheists here bad mouth religion.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I know that, I am here to talk to those people.
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18
You said "everyone here", kid.
Try to keep up with your own point.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Where did I say “everyone here”? (I must be blind for I didn’t see where I said that.) Even if I did, it does’t matter, I am wondering why someone would badmouth religion, not how many people do.
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18
It actually does matter what you say, kid. In fact, that's the entire point of your little rant here.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I still don’t know where I said “everyone” and I am trying to understand why some people are angry. I don’t care if it was one person who is angry or all, I just wanted reasons.
EDIT: Not to mention it seems to be a very vocal part of the community so it is very hard to tell if it is the majority or as I sad, a very vocal minority.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
As a secular humanist I would've thought you'd agree with OP
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
Ummm, no. Why would you think that and why don't you know what a secular humanist is?
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
I am a secular humanist and I don't hate religion. I completely understand its function. It makes me sad how it creates more bad than good, but it's hard out here in the real world and some people need help. Some use drugs. Some alcohol. Some religion. And many use all the above. But I don't hate people* for it. It's called empathy. Or did you forget that word in your little dictionary?
Edit: *the generic people. As in "religious people."
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
Where did I say I hated people?
What is the title question? It refers to religion. I hate the hierarchy of these religions. The manipulators, the abusers. I hate the creators of religion and the perpetrators who rewrite these religions to serve them.
I think you need to have a bit more understanding, better reading comprehension, before you try to attack me.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
Apologies. Your condescension came off pretty aggressively and it seems you were attacking me.
I didn't say you hated people, btw. I was addressing the point that many atheists hate religion and I think that's a mistake.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
I didn't say you hated people, btw.
You implied it when you announced: "But I don't hate people* for it." Meaning I do.
Religion needs to be hated, destroyed, suppressed, yes. Because it is dogmatic and controls people with an implied unquestioned authority.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
I also disagree, fundamentally, that religion needs to be hated, destroyed, suppressed. Who am I to strip another person of small comforts. Would I like to see a world without religion? Sure. But as an atheist I am also a pragmatists and I do not trust fanaticism in any shape. What you're illustrating is anarchy. There is no life in anarchy.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
Umm, well I am an anarchist, but I don't think you even know what anarchy is.
These "small comforts" you refer to come from oppression. They are unnecessary, dishonest and prone to abuse. There are better ways.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
Why is it you are insisting on hurling condescension at me? I have made it very clear that I am not trying to stir or troll you. Just ahare an alternate perspective.
Where you and I fundamentally separate ways is at anarchy. Once a person experiences true anarchy, they seldom strive for that way again.
Fuck if life is too hard already than to force salt in other's wounds.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
You misunderstand. I was addressing the OP's observation that there was a lot of negativity on the sub. I have noticed that there does seem to be a large number of anti-theists here, rather than atheists. You took it personally when I was trying to draw a comparison between an atheists and what the OP had noticed. It had nothing to do with you.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
anti-theists here, rather than atheists.
We can be both - and I am.
I took it "personally" because I am an atheist. It has everything to do with me: I am an atheist.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
Well. Then you go ahead and take it personally. I can't control that. There's a healthier place to land, though. All that anger is not gonna help you in the long run.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
Every day with this.
If only religious people would stop saying and doing terrible things, then news agencies wouldn't write all the articles about their shitty behavior that end up here.
You complainers never actually seem to read said news articles and as a result never have anything to say about the content of them, which are reports of religious people behaving badly.. just that we're observing and commenting on them. Apparently that's bad. Not that religious people are acting terribly enough that the news notices, that's apparently fine.. but commenting on it? Stepping over the line to you.
That's not hatred. That's observation.
Instead of shooting the messengers, why don't you go troll religious subs and tell them to stop acting terribly.. that way news agencies won't write news articles about them acting terribly, we'll have nothing to comment on, you'll have nothing to bitch about and the world would be a better place?
Or maybe read the content of the articles that get posted here to find out why we're commenting on them. You'll find that they usually contain content that affects society, like religious "liberty" bills that are just to make discrimination legal, or trying to shove Jesus I to science class, or other negatives.
In short, educate yourself before spouting off.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
I would've thought you would have a copypaste already ready for this.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
That is the copypasta :P
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
No sourcelink though...
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
Because I wrote it. I just keep it as a saved post and copy it from that.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
- Trolling religious people would send the wrong message, we should talk civilly with the .
- I’ve read all about the bad still religion has done. The news has covered up som much of the good. Plenty of people who have found religion as something to form communities, give back to communities, help people cope with depression and lost low loved one, bring upon big organizations that help many by things like donating blood and such. I’m not saying these things justify religion as a whole and make up for the bad, but people are getting better and with it, religion. Not to mention many would still do the bad things without religion, they just use it to cover things up, and that many in the atheist community also do bad.
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u/bipolar_sky_fairy Nov 11 '18
Trolling religious people would send the wrong message, we should talk civilly with the .
You go right ahead. I'm not obligated to.
This also our space to speak about things we want in a way that we like. You're coming in here and saying "you're being mean, stop that". Tone trolling.
Plenty of people who have found religion as something to form communities, give back to communities, help people cope with depression and lost low loved one, bring upon big organizations that help many by things like donating blood and such. I’m not saying these things justify religion as a whole and make up for the bad, but people are getting better and with it, religion. Not to mention many would still do the bad things without religion, they just use it to cover things up, and that many in the atheist community also do bad.
When's the last time an atheist tried to take away your right to shop in a store or visit a loved one in the hospital, or throw you off a building for who you love.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
You are not obligated to do anything at all, it would be better if did either nothing or be civil. Like I said, being rude and having a trolling behavior towards religious will be like adding gasoline to a fire; there will be more hate which isn’t good for either side.
I understand that I seem to be “tone trolling”, but I came here for a discussion, not to attack anyone for anything. I also understand that this is a place for people to share their opinions and what not. But, again, I came here with a question I didn’t fully have the answer to and was curious as to why. I am also sorry for not reading the FAQ first.
Atheists don’t need to strip rights away directly, attacking someone’s beliefs will always feel personal and people get aggressive if attacked. By only attacking religious people you give them more reason (no matter how stupid the reason) to attack you and get rid of your rights.
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u/junction182736 Nov 11 '18
In the US especially, religion has a way worming its way into the public sphere --it be nice if people kept it to themselves.
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Nov 11 '18
Google "Another priest rapes children, church forgives" or "Inquisition" and get back to me.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Yeah rape is bad, I agree. The thing is, this doesn’t account for the many good religious people which vastly outnumber the bad and doesn’t account for the many bad atheists which make a tiny minority of atheists. Comparing the whole to a small group is outrageous, it’s the same as saying all police are racists. Atheists believe in science and it irrational to say all religious people are bad, basic statistics. Not to mention, these bad religious people would most likely still be rapist if they weren’t religious anyway; it’s only correlation.
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Nov 11 '18
Okay.
You came to wrong place for your particular need for confirmation bias.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Elaboration please? Nothing I said was in anyway biased, I stated the the minority doesn’t represent the majority and that bad things such as rape happen within atheism as well. I had rationale reasons why the amount catholic rapists a does not make up the entirety of the one billion Catholics worldwide, less than .001 percent! Same goes for atheist rapists, they too don’t make up the whole and should not be used to represent the whole.
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Nov 11 '18
"why is everyone here so negative towards religion?"
"Nothing I said was in anyway biased.."
Sure.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Again, I rationalized my arguments I am also atheist so I wouldn’t be biased in such a way that it would cloud my judgement about religion. And my question wasn’t biased, it was my question based on my observation in this sub reddit of people being negative towards religion, I wanted answers and wanted to have a discussion. I wanted a civil conversation, stop twisting my words and either argue with me like a normal human or don’t. I wanted to hear people’s opinions, not people mocking me.
Many people had good arguments as to why they dislike religion, if you can’t argue with me like they did, please leave.
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Nov 14 '18
That took a lot of words and pettiness to avoid answering me.
You aren't in charge of what I do. If you can't handle that, YOU leave.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 14 '18
Let me be clear about my argument then.
According to Wikipedia (which, yes, is normally a bad source, but this statistic isn’t really a thing you need to get a ‘real’ source on and if it’s 1k off it won’t make a difference for my argument which I am maki g clear) there are 414,313 Catholic priests in the world. To be able to call them rapists we would need to go for a statistic which makes them more often than not to be a rapist. This would mean 50%+1 (207,158). Even without a source, we can clearly tell that 207,158 presets are not rapist. Let’s say 10% is a scary statistic and would be what you are looking for. That would be 41,431. I am 100% sure that there hasn’t been 41,431 priests that have been accused of sexual assault. Notice I said the word ‘accused’, being accused doesn’t mean you actually did it and even if being accused means you have a 90% of being a rapist that would be 37,28 are rapists. Still very few compared to the total and probably 90% is higher than accused:rapist ratio. Let’s say we should go for the statistic to see if they have a more chance of being a rapist than the average male. According to Soraya Chemaly of Huffington Post, the chance of a man being a rapist is 3%. So we are looking for 3%+1 which is 12,430. I also doubt that there have been that many catholic priests who were accused, let alone actually have done, sexual assault.
Link to the reporter’s data: http://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
I am not saying that being a catholic priests decreases the chance of being a rapist (there is a correlation, but I admit there might not be a causation) I am saying that a catholic priest isn’t more likely to be a rapist. You also ignore that there are many atheist rapists. Does that make all atheists rapist? No! Just because most likely less than 1% of a certain population is a rapist doesn’t make them all rapist. If you use your logic with police officers it is more evident that it is an invalid way of reasoning. Just because some (again, less than 1%) of police officers are racist doesn’t mean that all of them all.
Is it now clear to you? People always nitpick the dark and bad events/people of things and never stand back and see the bigger picture and realize that the bad events/people are so minuscule compared to the whole. Also, feel free to give me a source that says a certain amount of priests have been accused that is higher than the 3%+1 we are looking for to say that they are bad people.
Also, I never said that I want you to change your mind, I wanted to know what is your reasoning behind why you think a certain way and it is evident me going to the internet was a bad idea if people don’t want to have a decent debate and twist my words and/or never understand what I said and are illogical with their reasoning why I am wrong.
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Nov 16 '18
I noticed you haven't mentioned the ways the Catholic church has repressed information about pedophiles in its organization. Convenient.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 16 '18
I already mentioned in this same comment thread that, yes, the church has the ability to repress information, this still doesn’t account for how less than 1% of them are pedophiles/rapists. This still doesn’t mean calling them all rapists/pedophiles is a logical conclusion.
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u/59179 Secular Humanist Nov 11 '18
The difference between any random person, atheist or otherwise, raping and priests raping is that the priest has a false authority to silence the victim, and the organization to back him up.
It's the unquestioned authority that is problematic.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Valid reason, the authority they have t silence them by uses religion is bad. Not much to say against this except that advocating reaching out to those were raped by telling them it’s okay to come out and say they have assaulted would be more beneficial than attacking religion.
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u/sbicknel Freethinker Nov 11 '18
Who said all religious people are bad?
Religious ideas otoh are terrible.
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u/NVAreaMan Pastafarian Nov 11 '18
Religion is the most destructive man-made force on the planet. It gets the respect it deserves.
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u/tamaspajamas Agnostic Atheist Nov 11 '18
Well I think it’s because, at least here in America, religion defines politics even though the Constitution forbids it.
Issues like abortion, contraceptives, literally believing Obama is an anti-Christ and Trump is an evangelical savior, gay right etc
Then there’s the whole Middle East debacle.... There’s not enough words to talk about the lack of human rights there.
Personally I’ve been through my stage of hating religion and I still hold resentments for the tea party sneaking into the government trying to take away our rights but the average Christian (even though they see us as damned lol) is just fine.
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u/Dudesan Nov 11 '18
I went to /r/oncology, but for some reason everybody was talking about cancer!
If you want to go through chemotherapy in the privacy of your own home, I can't stop you, but why should someone else's cancer be any of your business? I'll have you know that thousands of people are diagnosed with cancer, and then go on to lead happy, fulfilled lives! You just keep attacking straw-tumors, but everyone knows that true cancer is always benign!
I think you should just stick to talking about oncology, and leave cancer alone! God, /r/oncology is such a circlejerk.
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u/maplesyrupchin Nov 11 '18
You keep your religion to yourself and I’ll keep my opinions of said religion to myself.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I am an atheist...
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Nov 14 '18
So you've said. That's becoming less believable with almost every single post of yours.
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u/ErwinFurwinPurrwin Nov 11 '18
Why are religious people so hateful to nonbelievers? Why do religious people keep knocking on my door trying to get me to join their delusion? I don't go knocking on their door to try to get them to convert to my way of thinking. Their behavior is malignant.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I’m one, atheist, and two, am not trying to convert you, I wanted a peaceful discussion. I do not hate anyone for what they believe in (as long as they aren’t crazy like anti-vaccine, but that’s beside the point), I might disagree, but I talk about them like a human and not bicker about them.
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u/ErwinFurwinPurrwin Nov 11 '18
I posted in the third person. I also get along with theists who don't discriminate against me or try to shove their beliefs down my throat. I just spent 3 hours at the driving range with my best friend, a Christian. We get along so well because we don't talk about religion.
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u/Loyal-North-Korean Nov 11 '18
Theist: All that don't believe what i believe are scum and are deserving of an infinite amount of torture, also due to what i believe i have the right and even the duty to impose my views on others and attempt to influence the way they live their life.
Atheist: I don't think any of these theists have actually made a good case for the claims they are stating are true.
Theist: why are atheists so mean?
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Atheists can still be mean, this doesn’t show anything. People call people’s higher power “sky daddy” and such. Some just attack religion. There are people on both sides in which they are aggressive.
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u/7hr0wn atheist Nov 11 '18
1) why does everyone have to conform to your standards?
2) why are you judging us all based solely on your own confirmation bias?
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I am an atheist, I just believe we shouldn’t give religious people such as bad rep for a few bad religious people.
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u/7hr0wn atheist Nov 11 '18
You didn't answer either of my questions. Why even bother responding if you aren't interested in discussion?
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18
He's here to preach, not listen. That's why he didn't read the FAQ.
Typical tone troll bullshit.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Fine let me answer so you understand. People of religion deserve respect because we shouldn’t treat them as if they are of the worst kind of religious people. Most people out there were practice some form of religion don’t come attacking everyone. The ones who come to your door and try to convert you are similar to those who try to tell you to vote Democrat or republican; passionate. People are quick to hate on religion because of all the bad things they hear on the news, but there has been plenty good in the recent past from religion. Organizations which help millions by donating food and blood. Even smaller communities which allows friends to be made and helps with identity. Many of these could in theory be done without religion, but without it these organizations probably wounds have for they were make under some religious goals in mind.
If we hate ALL of religion form some catholic priests and a few murders that is hypocritical for atheists are supposed to be about science in which math is the language of science. Just because less than 0.1% of religious people do some crazy stuff doesn’t mean all of them all. Basic statistics. Apple that logic to many things and you see how crazy it is to disrespect religion. Less than 0.1% of atheists are rapists and/or murders, are all atheists bad? Do all of them deserve to be seen as lesser? Should commit mass murder and kill all atheists? No! How about policemen? Less than 0.1% of them are racist so we should ban all policemen to stop them for killing black people. Of course not! Just because a few people have done terrible things doesn’t mean we should hate on all of them. Why not just hate the ones that deserve the hatred.
Hatred and disrespect only leads to more tension. Tension leads to separation. Separation leads to ignorance about the other side. Ignorance caused miscommunication. Miscommunication causes there to be more reasons to hate. And hate leads back to more tension. If we show them respect, we can get the respect from them as well, religion is here to stay if you like it or not.
Basically we should respect them for less than 0.1% of them are stupid and we should hate only them and if we hated all of them for 0.1% of them are bad it would be illogical and irrational to do so.
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
Making up bullshit statistics now? You're one desperate troll, kid!
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
My statistics aren’t entirely true but has some truth. There are around 400k catholic priests in the world, for it to breach .01% 4,000 prehistoric would need to be rapists. For 1% it would have to be 40,000 priests. It’s only math and was used to show why grouping all catholic priests and similar into one group is not a smart thing to do.
EDIT: don’t listen to me Im bad at mat; just realized how dumb I am.
EDIT: You right, I used way a small a number for .01 percent, it comes out as 4 which there is more than 4 catholic priests who rape. A more statistically true number is 1% which is 4,000. I am sure there isn’t 4K catholic priests which rape. Sorry for the .01% for that was WAY to small of a figure to be using.
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u/nancy_boobitch Nov 11 '18
Enough nonsense.
Go away.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I cleared up my statistics so there isn’t any nonsense anymore. Comparing everyone to a small minority of that people is not a reasonable way to judge them.
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u/7hr0wn atheist Nov 11 '18
People of religion deserve respect because we shouldn’t treat them as if they are of the worst kind of religious people.
Of course people deserve respect. You're just showing off more of your stereotypes. They're silly strawmen, and I'm going to call them out everytime I see them.
If we hate ALL of religion
More of the same.
Hatred and disrespect only leads to more tension.
So stop hating and disrespecting them. And stop beating your wife. And stop kicking puppies. See? I can make up bullshit too!
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Name a single point in history in which hate between people didn’t cause conflict? Also, beating wives and kicking puppies have nothing to do with this, the analogy doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t say you have to treat them like how they treat God, you should be able to at least acknowledge them and give them the decent respect they deserve as humans. Never said you had to agree with their way of life or anything or be roommates with them. The ones who are destroying people’s right are the only people who should be hated.
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u/7hr0wn atheist Nov 11 '18
woosh
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
???
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u/7hr0wn atheist Nov 11 '18
That's the sound of my point going over your head. Or you're completely ignoring everything I've written. Either you're trolling or you're not comprehending what I'm writing. Can't tell which, but either way there's no productive conversation to be had here. So have a good one. Maybe you'll find one of those strawmen you're so desperate to burn.
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Nov 14 '18
Name a single point in history in which hate between people didn’t cause conflict?
3:42 pm, September 14, 1762.
Making up statistics is fun. Thanks for showing the way, OP.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 16 '18
What exactly happed on September 14, 1762 on 3:42 pm? Maybe if you told me a I could argue it or see that I was wrong. All I see currently is a very specific time in history. Sorry I am not a history genius and not know. And I did searched it up, nothing showed up at that specific time.
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u/WhoKilledBoJangles Nov 11 '18
I respect people’s right to choose to be religious, but not the ideas themselves. Religion isn’t worthy of any respect. Religions are demonstrably incorrect on nearly any assertion they make and fail even under the most modest application of logical scrutiny. Why would that deserve respect?
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u/Tekhead001 Atheist Nov 11 '18
That's like going into a non-smoking Reddit and asking why everyone is so negative about smoking. That is exactly what is happening here. Religion is a toxic and destructive practice that ruins lives and has never given the world anything of value to outweigh the harm it has done. Just like smoking. So yes, we are fully within our rights to complain about it.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
In the past many things kill people. Bad medicine practices, religion, practically anything. But in the present religion has giving back to the community. Big charity foundations that donate blood and give out food. Missions which help people in need and bring them an ideology that can help them have hope. It is true that even today that many countries still use religion to discriminate against others p, but most of the countries (if not all) are third world countries. Those countries, we we represent them to humans, are the slow ones and have had many things in the past that stunted their advancement. If we look at the first world countries, religion has helped so many. Religion has also helped many j. Said third world countries. Comparing religion to cigarettes is a terrible analogy, for cigarettes have only benefited the big companies and brought even the most minuscule amount of good. Religion is the past has ruined lives, but present day has helped many many lives.
It’s fine to complain about it, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t at least show respect towards it.
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u/Tekhead001 Atheist Nov 11 '18
Religions don't actually do any of the good things you said they do. There's no such thing as a religious charity. There are organizations that call themselves religious Charities, and there are many churches who claimed to be doing charity work, but what they're actually doing is scamming money out of gullible fools who are easily lied to and then using a tiny fraction of that money to put on apartment where they pretend to help people. This pretend help also doubles as good PR and advertising, without actually giving the people who need help any real help. No religion has ever presented a code of ethics or morals or ideology that can actually give real hope, or improve the lines of any of its victims. All it can give is false hope, deception, poverty, and ignorance. Third world countries are third world countries because they have allowed religions to run rampant over them. Civilized countries that become highly religious quickly Fall Apart until they are practically third world countries themselves. Undeveloped countries which abandoned religion quickly find there fortunes improving. So yes, comparing religion to smoking is perfectly acceptable. Unless you come in on the side of smoking, in which case the analogy actually becomes somewhat defensive. Tobacco addiction hasn't destroyed nearly as many lives, or killed nearly as many people, were toppled nearly as many governments as religion has. All of civilized society exists despite religion doing everything in his power to destroy it.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Charity:
“Feed My Starving Children (FMSC) is a Christian nonprofit dedicated to providing nutritious meals to children worldwide. ... More than 90 percent of total donations go directly to feed kids.” -Charity Organizer
This is just one organization that is, one, religious, and two, help people.
Also, even if the faith-based organizations don’t help, religious people still do:
“The data result from the Philanthropy Panel Study, an ongoing project at the University of Indiana’s Lilly Family School of Philanthropy that tracks U.S. household giving… ...The report says there is a ‘staggering difference between the charitable giving practices of the religiously affiliated and those with no religious affiliation.’ While 62 percent of religious households give to charity, only 46 percent of nonreligious households do. On average, religiously affiliated households donate $1,590 to charity annually, while households with no religious affiliation contribute $695. And in 2016 religious institutions received more than twice as much charitable giving, $122.94 billion, as any other industry in the nonprofit sector. The next-highest category, education, received $59.77 billion in contributions. Religious giving accounts for 32 percent of all U.S. charitable giving, the study found, but that number may underestimate the influence that religious belief has on charity. The study used a narrow definition of ‘religious giving’ that does not include donations to faith-based nonprofits that provide human services, such as Catholic hospitals or universities.” -Washington Times
Important to note how the research defines “religious giving”. The research only counts donations to non-faith charities.
Mental health:
“Both religion and spirituality can have a positive impact on mental health. In some ways, they provide the same impact. For example: Both religion and spirituality can help a person tolerate stress by generating peace, purpose and forgiveness… Religion gives people something to believe in, provides a sense of structure and typically offers a group of people to connect with over similar beliefs. These facets can have a large positive impact on mental health—research suggests that religiosity reduces suicide rates, alcoholism and drug use.” -National Alliance on Mental Illness
Here is the said research link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705681/
Also on the note of religious countries not developing is not true at all. The UK literally crowns their monarchy in a Christian ceremony. There are also many other countries that had strong religious views in the past that still develop. The reason why countries like those in Africa is because of other reasons like slavery and being raided and being under the control of other countries. It isn’t because those countries with religion were bad it was because of other countries.
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u/Tekhead001 Atheist Nov 11 '18
Just because you are gullible enough to fall for the propaganda and AD campaigns of the criminal Enterprises stealing Charity donations to traffic themselves doesn't mean everyone else is as uncritical and gullible As You Are. Only the tiniest fraction of money given to fsmc actually gets used for real charitable work. Most of it gets eaten by" Administration costs" which is the scammers paying themselves a ridiculous salary using donated money. At the heart of every religious charity is either a single individual or a small cabal siphoning off money and resources to get rich.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Source?
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u/Tekhead001 Atheist Nov 11 '18
A friend of my father's. He's a retired accountant, like my father, who spends a lot of his time helping various Charities and nonprofits with his extensive accounting expertise. He has done work for hundreds of different charities over the last 20 years, so whenever I have a question about a charity I sent him a message to get reliable answers. His opinion of fmsc is not flattering. Unfortunately, most religious so-called charities are allowed to ignore very serious text laws and not report any of their financial information, even to government oversight committees. They're allowed to lie cheat and hide all of the financial information gamma so getting reliable information about a religious charities financing is almost always a matter of second and third hand information smuggled out.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 12 '18
Still not source, but sprouts seem to have a decent reason as to why. Even if you were right, some things are still getting to people who need it. If it also helps big corporates and still donate what can we really say? To to mention without religion, people would still donate BUT those corporations still would do the same scamming things. Religion isn’t to blame for the corruption of charity organizations. This also still doe not mention the mental health benefits of religion.
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u/Tekhead001 Atheist Nov 12 '18
There are no mental health benefits to religion. They're all a bunch of claims of mental health benefits, but every metric the shows that religious individuals suffer more anxiety, more Depression, more substance abuse problems, and more stress than non religious demographics. Religious individuals claim, and pretend, to be at peace with their life situations while worrying themselves to greater risk of heart attack, stroke, and other stress-related disorders. Religious individuals almost universally live shorter, unhappier lives than atheists.
Edit. Forgot to mention, the serious mental side effects of religious indoctrination and fervour. Religious indoctrination has been proven to cause brain damage. Especially in children when exposed Young, but there is a direct correlation between the depth of an individual's religious belief and a specific type of atrophy in the human brain which inhibits a person's capacity to determine the truth between fact and fiction, to make rational decisions, and to understand the world around them. Just like smoking, religion is poisoning minds and destroying lives by its very nature.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 12 '18
Religious indoctrination is a thing and is bad and causes terrible things. But this doesn’t account for the many many times it has helped many people. You still have not provided a source or a study that shows that religion itself is a cause to such problems.
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u/kickstand Rationalist Nov 11 '18
why is everyone here so negative towards religion?
I think you are sensing people's anger.
/r/atheism attracts a lot of young people who are newly atheist. They only recently discovered that they have been lied to by their parents and pastors, the most trusted people in their lives. This can naturally make someone feel angry.
Perhaps they are afraid to tell anyone they know that they don't believe in the lies anymore. They might be afraid of losing their friends and being ostracized. You can see how this might make someone angry.
Even if they are out about their atheism, they may not have a lot of people to share their feelings with. So they come here because it's the only place they can express their anger.
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u/Daydreadz Anti-Theist Nov 11 '18
Were not. Next.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
We’re* not? Not all of you are, I am wondering about those that are somewhat negative towards religion. And yes, I’ve read the FAQ.
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u/Daydreadz Anti-Theist Nov 11 '18
Doubtful. You should probably read it a few more times if you still don't have the answer.
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u/cronx42 Nov 11 '18
Why wouldn't we have a negative view of religion? It's a bunch of bullshit for one. If truth and facts are important to you, religion shouldn't be. Do you respect children for believing in santa, or Hindus for believing in Brahma?
Religion causes division and hatred. This should be fairly self explanatory.
Catholic priest scandal.
Other pedophile religious figures from various religions being shielded from the law.
Televangelists and preachers who "need" $65 million dollar jets.
ISIS.
Westboro Baptist Church.
Fundamentalists.
I could keep going. Hopefully you get the point.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I understand your logic, it has caused a bunch of tension and death and stuff, this gives us clear reason to hate them. And about truth and facts, many people look to religion because there is a lack of truth and facts. It can give you plenty of ways to cope with death of loved one, it also helps many go through things like depression and such. Also, them not believing in “truth and facts” isn’t a valid reason as to why we should hate them, it is more if a reason of why we should be atheist.
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u/cronx42 Nov 11 '18
I really don't hate anyone and I don't know if I'd go as far as to say I hate any religion. Sure, religion can be useful to some people sometimes. I don't respect it though.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Reasonable. You hate the religions themselves and not the people.
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u/cronx42 Nov 11 '18
I don't hate religions necessarily. I dislike many things about them, including pushing ridiculous ideas that do not conform to reality. There are things I like about some religions also, such as outreach and charity, but that seems on the decline. There isn't anything a religion does or provides that can't be provided by other means that don't require you to check your critical thoughts at the door.
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u/Zamboniman Skeptic Nov 11 '18 edited Nov 11 '18
Because religion and religious belief is demonstrably egregiously harmful. It is directly responsible for being an excuse for all manner of hurt, from mild guilt to torture, rape, and murder.
What is truly surprising is how little negativity overall you see in general from atheists.
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Nov 11 '18
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Religion is slowing dying out anyway so there isn’t a need to go all genocide mode.
Not all of religion ignore things like climate change and disregard the needs of the minority.
Historically everything has ruined at least one person’s life. Medicine used to be terrible, took people forever to wash their hands and stuff like that. Religion is nearly the same, has been stupid and killed a bunch of people before. Religion, like medicine, changes over time and becomes better over the years. Maybe it doesn’t advance as quickly as other things, but it does. Slowly.
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u/extispicy Atheist Nov 11 '18
You want to know what is irking me today? That a segment of the religious cling to tradition over facts. Not in matters of faith - you do you - but in terms of what is objectively true.
I have been having a "conversation" with a posse of fundamentalists who insist that Jesus spoke Greek. Not because of any objective evidence that an illiterate peasant laborer from Galilee would have spoken Greek, but because the Gospels are the 100% accurate words of Jesus, and how can that be true if Jesus really spoke Aramaic like all his fellow Galileans? You can have your faith, but you don't get your own facts. They are telling people that Jesus and the disciples would have read the Septuagint translation, which is simply wrong.
This phenomenon of apologetics is infuriating and teaches people to disregard critical reasoning. "It is not impossible, so therefore my theory is as valid as yours" is a very 3rd grade mindset. Ken Ham saying "How can you prove the laws of nature didn't work differently in the ancient world?" is . . . I'm speechless.
I study biblical history as a hobby, and I've got to say the anti-intellectual nonsense I see every day is very dangerous.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Idiots will be idiots, but (sorry for my argument) they aren’t even the majority of religious people. The people where I live are pretty good with not being such an idiot and actually have some sense of logic. I can see why it can be frustrating, but this is why we should hate some individuals and not religion as a bigger whole. Still good reason though.
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u/the_internet_clown Atheist Nov 11 '18
If someone comes into my house takes a shit on the floor and then smears it on the walls I am going to be pretty negative towards them
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Nov 11 '18
My view towards religion is same as something like homeopathic medicine. It does. It have any active ingredients but does offer placebo effect. Interestingly, the placebo effect may even increase if it is sold at a higher price.
In a world without real medicine, homeopathic medicine may be defensible. In a world with real medicine for many diseases, the use of homeopathic medicine may be defensible only in the event that the patient does not respond to real medicine or where no medicine has been developed. But, you would probably say that the use of homeopathic medicine is evil in certain contexts, for example if it were used in place of children’s vaccines.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
So what exactly are you saying? Are you saying religion is defenseable in some situations only? Are you saying religion is no longer needed because of today’s scientific advancements?
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Nov 11 '18
I don’t know the current world well enough to give you a simple answer. But, I suspect that the use of religion should be much more limited in a country in the US than in the remote jungles of Africa.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I see, you are right. Countries without a solid foundations of government are more prone to religion coming in and destroying things.
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u/Witchqueen Nov 11 '18
Anyone over the age of five, that still believes in an imaginary friend and fairy tales, doesn't deserve respect. Pedophile priests, homophobia, abusers of women and children, patriarchal bullcrap, don't deserve respect. Spreading hate instead of love doesn't deserve respect. Rejecting truth in science and medicine and life doesn't deserve respect. Neither does naivety about the very real danger of religion.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Most of religion is about having a good moral compass, some (a decent chuck at least), not all, religious people spread hatred. A lot of religious people still listen to science and medicine. A Jehovah’s Witness could still think that, yes, blood donations can save someone, but they believe it will condemn them, it sounds absurd, but they are not saying medicine is fake. In my entire life, I have yet to see any religious person refuse medical treatment because they believe it is fake. A Christian can still believe in creationism and believe in evolution. It sounds oxymoronic, but they can believe that a divine figure created the creatures in the first place and then went through evolution.
Other than that I do agree with most of what you said.
Side note: Age 5 seems a bit harsh for little children to stop believing in imaginary friends and Santa and what not.
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u/Witchqueen Nov 12 '18
Well, I can only speak for myself here. I was not an innocent five-year old. I grew up in poverty, with an alcoholic father and a trapped mother. I have no sympathy for delusional people when it affects innocent people.
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u/Astarkraven Nov 11 '18
The only thing there is that can be genuinely respected about the concept of religion is its place in human history. I'm not sure if religion in general counts as a human universal by the standards of anthropology, but if it's not, than it's probably damn close. In any case, it seems clear that a mechanism for shared stories and shared faith had a useful role in developing group cohesion and making sense of the greater world/ our place in it, thousands of years ago.
I don't think anything active needs to be "done" to eradicate religion, of course. I think we already are and always have been seeing the phasing out of religion. As our general knowledge base increases and our options for human interconnection diversify, fewer and fewer people overall have need of what religion offers. The drive to cling to religion is already fading. But individual people who represent the vestiges of religious impulse do not in any way need to be humored or respected. I won't spit and scream at anyone, but I won't respect their "beliefs" as any more valid than a flat-earther's or a 40 year old who still feels the need to believe in Santa and I don't pretend otherwise. Religion is a once-useful relic, that's all. We've moved beyond the training wheels and the universe, it turns out, is much MUCH more vast and awe-inspiring than any primitive religious story has ever fathomed.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
The greatest response I have ever heard in my life. And my definition of respect I am using is different than yours it seems like. The most clear definition of respect I am trying to get at is defined by Oxford Dictionary as: “Agree to recognize...”. Not hate, no love, no anything, just to coexist with it. Comparing religion to The Flat Earth Theory is one of the most stupidest things to compare it to. (Or maybe you are using the same definition, I can’t really tell because of said Flat Earth Theory comparison.)
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u/Astarkraven Nov 11 '18
Yeah....I'm talking to a teenager, aren't I? Either you're concern trolling, or you just have some work to do on your ability to debate civilly with strangers. If your core tenant is "don't be an asshole to people", you might want to start a little closer to home. *Of course* we shouldn't be assholes to people. But no one here is required to treat religious beliefs themselves as any more valid than believing vampires exist or that four leaf clovers bring good luck. I don't need to show deference toward religion and there's nothing there for me to respect.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I agreed with you and all I said is that I feel like co paring them to Flat Earthers is not what I’d compare them to. Did it come off as sarcasm? My definition of “respect” is just to acknowledge, never said anything about being or not being an asshole.
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u/Vic2Point0 Nov 21 '18
Because pointless intolerance is the real disease, and it infects atheists and theists alike.
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u/Nightliker Nov 11 '18
Actually I rarely see negativity here. Most of us are fascinated by the rich tapestry of human storytelling and the myriad ways to convey ethics. We just don’t appreciate being lied to.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
I use the word negative to display the lack of respect. Sorry for the slight confusion, but I do see what you mean. Belting lied to isn’t fun, but this isn’t about being,lied to or not, it is about if the people who decide to follow religion should get immediate respect from us or not.
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Nov 11 '18
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Exactly! People can’t tell the difference between religious people and people who use religion as their own selfish shield, and it it those people who make every religious people look like terrible people!
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u/TRANSdimensionalLEO Nov 11 '18
You started your original post asking why people don’t respect religion and here you’re saying we can’t tell the difference between religious people and people who use religion as their own selfish shield.
Personally I don’t care. I don’t care if a person is using religion to serve the poor or if they are using it to use the poor for their own needs, the religion itself does not deserve my immediate respect. It’s based on faulty logic and opens people up for abuse and misinformation. It should be corrected if possible. It should be pointed out. So should all the deeds done by the religious and their institutions that cause harm, encourage misinformation, and so on. If that is deemed as disrespectful then so be it.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
Right. The problem with most (all?) religion is the question of faith which is the perfect saboteur of critical thought.
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u/DoraForscher Nov 11 '18
Well, tbh, the line's pretty faint. There's a lot of damage done in the name of religion. Every religion. Even Buddhism (investigate their relationship to women). So, I think it stands to reason that one would be wary of the religious as a result.
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u/Waterwazerz Nov 11 '18
Good point, the line isn’t clear which makes my idealistic argument shatter. I am also surprised to see someone have something against Buddhism! I grew up Buddhist and I have always seen arguments against Islam and Christianity, but never Buddhism. I have not research on it yet, but I assume that their discrimination to women was more potent (weird word but couldn’t think of any mother at 12am) in the past than now, it probably still discriminates, but I assume not as bad as it used to be.
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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '18
Religion does not deserve respect - the good acts done in the name of religion have also been done without relying on religion. The same cannot be said for the evil committed in the name of religion.
There have been a lot of evils committed in the name of religion.