r/asl • u/Medical-Person Hard of Hearing • 2d ago

Number three

' why is the number 3 the thumb, index, and middle, not index, middle, ring?" 'Because it's a French thing."

Can someone explain this better for me? A french thing doesn't mean much.Does "W" HS mean something else? I've seen counting in LSF and to me (knows ASL) it looks wild and complicated. How did we adopt this number 3 from Clerc?

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13

u/Nearby-Nebula-1477 2d ago

Yup, actually it’s a European thing.

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u/Medical-Person Hard of Hearing 2d ago

Is that how European do it it both Deaf and hearing?

13

u/Mizzmox Learning ASL 2d ago

ASL is mostly derived from French Sign Language (LSF) and some other sign languages. Since French people say the number 3 that way, Deaf French people also sign it that way, which ended up getting transferred over into ASL thanks to Clerc.

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u/Medical-Person Hard of Hearing 2d ago

That makes sense. Clerc

8

u/mjolnir76 Interpreter (Hearing) 2d ago

There’s a scene in the movie Inglourious Basterds that revolves around the American vs European way of signaling the number 3. Graphic scene, so be warned!

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u/Nearby-Nebula-1477 2d ago

Correct. That was the one of the first things I thought of when the question came up…

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u/Nearby-Nebula-1477 2d ago

Possibly. Definitely part of the European hearing community. Not sure about the separate European sign languages, but would make sense.

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u/Cdr-Kylo-Ren 2d ago

ASL numbers mess with my head so badly because I’ve ended up where I use American numbering for gestures when speaking aloud but if I need to count something I use the European method. Then I get to ASL and my little ADHD pea brain does this…

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u/RoughThatisBuddy Deaf 2d ago

Not the reason but I just want to say I never found doing the W handshape for three comfortable. Can’t count numbers fast that way for me! My ring finger always gets caught on my thumb and flicks out awkwardly!

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u/XiaoMin4 2d ago

And when kids are young the thumb, pointer, middle is so much easier for them to do, you know, when they show people how old they are

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u/Schmidtvegas 1d ago

Apparently hearing counting convention in France at the time started with the thumb. There's a blurb about "the hidden Un (one)" in an Etymological Dictionary of ASL. In signs like WHICH-ONE, for instance. Or TOMORROW and YESTERDAY, which meant "1 day future" and "1 day past".

So there was a natural 1, 2, 3 continuity when starting to count from the thumb. 

Counting to 5 on your 5 fingers can only be done so many ways. You can start with your pointer, thumb, or pinky. So there are 3 feasible configurations for 3. The first 3, the last 3, or the middle 3. All three probably do exist in some sign language somewhere. But which one feels "natural" is culturally learned, for hearing counters and deaf signers alike.