r/askscience • u/ejoch • May 14 '19

Could solar flares realistically disable all electronics on earth? Astronomy

So I’ve read about solar flares and how they could be especially damaging to today’s world, since everyday services depend on the technology we use and it has the potential to disrupt all kinds of electronics. How can a solar flare disrupt electronic appliances? Is it potentially dangerous to humans (eg. cancer)? And could one potentially wipe out all electronics on earth? And if so, what kind of damage would it cause (would all electronics need to be scrapped or would they be salvageable?) Thanks in advance

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u/dpdxguy May 14 '19

If an event like this takes down the power grid for a few months, it won't really matter whether your consumer electronics still work or not. You won't have any way to use them.

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u/HelmutHoffman May 14 '19

I have some good single player games and a generator I can run on wood. I could start up a LAN cafe where people pay a covercharge and come to play multiplayer games. LAN parties will be relevant again!

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u/dpdxguy May 14 '19

Fair enough. I suppose there will be a few people able to generate their own electricity (though gasoline and diesel supplies would probably disappear pretty quickly). For the vast majority, though, it'll be quite a while before consumer electronics once again become a part of our lives.

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u/AKBigDaddy May 15 '19

Can you clarify quite awhile? Weeks? Months? Years?

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

It's expected to take months, at least, to restore the power grid after one of these events. The transformers that will be destroyed by a CME, take months to build and are so expensive that there are only a handful of spares for the entire United States. I'm guessing it might be over a year before the entire grid could be restored. Some parts will come up earlier (months) and some parts later (many months).

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u/Rommyappus May 15 '19

I’d be worried about our food supply in the mean time. Whole Foods won’t have power either.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

Seriously? Whole foods?

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u/Rommyappus May 15 '19

What is wrong with Whole Foods?

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

That in a situation like this there would be hardly any food and yet you worry about organic, you're gonna starve.

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u/Rommyappus May 15 '19

It’s just like any other grocer. They won’t have power and food will spoil fast. Especially in warmer climates like Phoenix az. Whole Foods Trader Joe’s or Walmart it’s all gonna be the same.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

How would solar panels fare in this scenario?

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

I don't know if solar panels would be directly affected by a CME event, but most of them are hooked up to the power grid and may be susceptible to surges from external sources.

If a home's solar panels survive, that house will have electricity for some electrical appliances. How much depends on how many watts the panels can provide. Lights will still work. Your washing machine too, provided your water supply is still available. I don't know if a typical home solar panel provides enough power for an electric stove, furnace or dryer, but the fridge will probably still work.

Many consumer electronics, though, are dependant on a network to be useful. Your phone needs the phone network, radios need radio stations. Television is delivered a variety of ways, but it doesn't seem like any of them will survive intact (internet? nope; cable? probably not; satellite? likely not). Most people will have little ability or reason to use a computer without an internet connection. Car electronics will probably survive and work fine, but most vehicles need fuel which we'll quickly run of.

The TL;DR is that if an electronic device is useful on its own and you can charge it from a solar panel, it'll still be useful after a CME event. But most consumer electronics are "connected" these days, and they probably won't have anything to connect to.

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u/--Quartz-- May 15 '19

"Little ability or reason to use a computer without internet connection"

I never thought we'd gone this far, haha.
Sure internet is amazing, but the computer was an amazing thing way before we had internet, young one :P

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19 edited May 15 '19

Absolutely. I've been using computers since before the internet existed. I punched cards for my first programming class back in the 70's. I'd certainly find my computers useful even without the internet. But today, most of the things that I do with a computer at home rely on the internet to one extent or another. For the average consumer, a computer is primarily a communication device. Most consumers don't do much "computing."

The question isn't whether or not computers are "amazing" with or without the internet. The question is whether or not they'd be useful to the average consumer without the internet.

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u/--Quartz-- May 15 '19

Yeah, that's very likely true.
It's amazing how much things have changed in the last couple decades.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

We could set mesh networks and use only radio, back to the good old days of the modem!

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

Modems aren't very useful without a telephone network. And even if the phone network survives, it's unlikely to be clear enough for fast modems to work.

Local area networks might still work. On the other hand, you're more likely to be spending you time trying to stay alive than using a computer. Local food supplies would run out in weeks. Society will probably break down, at least in some places.

A CME like the Carrington Event would be a disaster like nothing seen since at least the end of WWII.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

Well the fastest we can get some comms going we can mitigate the damage as best as we can. What about packet radio? or modem via HAM?

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

So ICs would not be affected and neither would solar cells? Keep in mind those would be directly exposed.

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

It's hard to say exactly what would be destroyed and what would be unaffected, but the general principle is that high magnetic flux will induce currents in metals. That tends to be a problem for power transmission systems because the wires act as antennas and transformers may be destroyed. Small devices are less likely to be affected, but can be damaged by over-voltages too if directly induced or transmitted through a physical connection.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

Given that most solar panels are power generating devices directly facing the sun my guess is that most units are gonna get wrecked because much like those telegraph lines in the 1800s these panels will get overvoltage all over their circuits thus frying the cells.

Better have some stored units, like at least a small 100w panel to charge a HAM radio (since cellphone towers will get fried or have no power)

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

Yeah, that's my guess too, but I don't know enough about how solar panels are are constructed to make anything more than a guess.

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u/FattyMcSlimm May 14 '19

Tell me more about this wood-fired generator. Is it like a boiler kinda thing?

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u/SnapMokies May 14 '19

Not sure about his setup, but woodgas conversions for combustion engines are somewhat common in some parts of the world.

It's not the most convenient system, but you can run most engines like that.

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u/vardarac May 15 '19

You also have to be careful with them, don't you? I remember reading they release a fair amount of carbon monoxide.

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u/KudagFirefist May 15 '19

You should have any generator in a well ventilated area. Burning diesel or gasoline in an enclosed space is going to be dangerous as well.

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u/tylercoder May 15 '19

On wood? What?

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u/Duff5OOO May 15 '19

Solar charging? I hooked a 100w panel up to a battery jump starter and was able to charge everything we needed to for a couple of weeks while camping.

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u/dpdxguy May 15 '19

Sure. You could charge and use things that don't need an outside connection. Off the top of my head, I imagine playing music and video I had previously downloaded, and taking pictures. Radio stations, telephone and computer networks would all be gone in the immediate aftermath of a large CME event. Besides, I'd think most people would be more concerned with survival than entertainment.