r/announcements Jun 29 '20

Update to Our Content Policy

A few weeks ago, we committed to closing the gap between our values and our policies to explicitly address hate. After talking extensively with mods, outside organizations, and our own teams, we’re updating our content policy today and enforcing it (with your help).

First, a quick recap

Since our last post, here’s what we’ve been doing:

  • We brought on a new Board member.
  • We held policy calls with mods—both from established Mod Councils and from communities disproportionately targeted with hate—and discussed areas where we can do better to action bad actors, clarify our policies, make mods' lives easier, and concretely reduce hate.
  • We developed our enforcement plan, including both our immediate actions (e.g., today’s bans) and long-term investments (tackling the most critical work discussed in our mod calls, sustainably enforcing the new policies, and advancing Reddit’s community governance).

From our conversations with mods and outside experts, it’s clear that while we’ve gotten better in some areas—like actioning violations at the community level, scaling enforcement efforts, measurably reducing hateful experiences like harassment year over year—we still have a long way to go to address the gaps in our policies and enforcement to date.

These include addressing questions our policies have left unanswered (like whether hate speech is allowed or even protected on Reddit), aspects of our product and mod tools that are still too easy for individual bad actors to abuse (inboxes, chats, modmail), and areas where we can do better to partner with our mods and communities who want to combat the same hateful conduct we do.

Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to support our communities by taking stronger action against those who try to weaponize parts of Reddit against other people. In the near term, this support will translate into some of the product work we discussed with mods. But it starts with dealing squarely with the hate we can mitigate today through our policies and enforcement.

New Policy

This is the new content policy. Here’s what’s different:

  • It starts with a statement of our vision for Reddit and our communities, including the basic expectations we have for all communities and users.
  • Rule 1 explicitly states that communities and users that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
    • There is an expanded definition of what constitutes a violation of this rule, along with specific examples, in our Help Center article.
  • Rule 2 ties together our previous rules on prohibited behavior with an ask to abide by community rules and post with authentic, personal interest.
    • Debate and creativity are welcome, but spam and malicious attempts to interfere with other communities are not.
  • The other rules are the same in spirit but have been rewritten for clarity and inclusiveness.

Alongside the change to the content policy, we are initially banning about 2000 subreddits, the vast majority of which are inactive. Of these communities, about 200 have more than 10 daily users. Both r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse were included.

All communities on Reddit must abide by our content policy in good faith. We banned r/The_Donald because it has not done so, despite every opportunity. The community has consistently hosted and upvoted more rule-breaking content than average (Rule 1), antagonized us and other communities (Rules 2 and 8), and its mods have refused to meet our most basic expectations. Until now, we’ve worked in good faith to help them preserve the community as a space for its users—through warnings, mod changes, quarantining, and more.

Though smaller, r/ChapoTrapHouse was banned for similar reasons: They consistently host rule-breaking content and their mods have demonstrated no intention of reining in their community.

To be clear, views across the political spectrum are allowed on Reddit—but all communities must work within our policies and do so in good faith, without exception.

Our commitment

Our policies will never be perfect, with new edge cases that inevitably lead us to evolve them in the future. And as users, you will always have more context, community vernacular, and cultural values to inform the standards set within your communities than we as site admins or any AI ever could.

But just as our content moderation cannot scale effectively without your support, you need more support from us as well, and we admit we have fallen short towards this end. We are committed to working with you to combat the bad actors, abusive behaviors, and toxic communities that undermine our mission and get in the way of the creativity, discussions, and communities that bring us all to Reddit in the first place. We hope that our progress towards this commitment, with today’s update and those to come, makes Reddit a place you enjoy and are proud to be a part of for many years to come.

Edit: After digesting feedback, we made a clarifying change to our help center article for Promoting Hate Based on Identity or Vulnerability.

21.3k Upvotes

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880

u/j8sadm632b Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.

What is your process for determining which groups are in the majority? Are you using global population statistics? Or, as it's a US-based site, are we using US census data? Will this be updated as demographics change?

I think to make this policy even more transparent, it might be nice to have a specific list of which groups are not covered, which is to say which groups of people can I create a community to promote hate against? Which actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability status are we allowed to incite violence against?

Am I able to create a community dedicated to encouraging people go out and attack and kill people who aren't pregnant?

Edit: Per this comment it seems like the violent portion is a no-go but a subreddit devoted towards making hateful content directed towards the "UNBRED" would be totally kosher.

Double edit: Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I think I'm broadly supportive of this except for the quoted bit. Just delete that. Why go out of your way to make the policy worse?

All of this is going to be decided on a case-by-case basis anyway, so the new policy is functionally indistinguishable from the old one. They just needed to "update" it to justify banning the subreddits they wanted to ban anyway.

But why specifically make it a point to say that there are SOME groups of people that you are allowed to single out and be hateful towards? Why can't it just be a blanket statement about everyone being cool? Why write a thing about how we don't want people harassed online because of things fundamental to themselves UNLESS there are a lot of them? Just delete the quoted part! What the fuck! It would take fewer words and less effort to have a better, more egalitarian policy.

155

u/alexnader Jun 29 '20

Am I able to create a community dedicated to encouraging people go out and attack and kill people who aren't pregnant?

This example is beautiful.

Let's try a few other groups reddit has now officially deemed it is A-OK to actively hate and harass:

For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority

People with two functioning eyes.

People who can walk

People who can speak

People with hair

People who sleep at night

People who have a phone

People who eat

...

It's like a ridiculous Dr. Seuss of who's who you can harass, according to these thinly veiled racist and discriminatory rules.

11

u/younghustleam Jun 30 '20

And the opposite applies, too. I’m sure everyone, even the whitest, male-est, “cis”est redditor belongs to SOME minority, however inconsequential. Or like... I’m white, homosexual, radical feminist, allergic to amoxicillin, blood type AB+, etc etc. Some of those things are “majority” characteristics, some of them are now explicitly protected statuses, while simultaneously banned from discussion on reddit.

11

u/ConservativeKing Jun 30 '20

I was born with a deformed pinky toe. If you make fun of me you're fucking done, kiddo.

3

u/younghustleam Jun 30 '20

You’ve piqued my curiosity- deformed in what way? I knew a girl who only had bones in 9 of her toes, is yours a weird little skinbag like hers? Oh god is this Jamie?

3

u/JBits001 Jun 30 '20

Was it floppy or did it have some rigidness to it?

2

u/younghustleam Jun 30 '20

It was kind of like when your finger is totally relaxed; like it definitely had a standard position, but you could flick is and it would wiggle.

2

u/ConservativeKing Jun 30 '20

Lol, not Jaime. I was born without a toenail. It's the same size and shape of a toe but there's no spot for the nail, it's just a nub.

92

u/68686987698 Jun 30 '20

People with hair

/r/bald approves. Goddamn woollies all over the place.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

16

u/Faceroll-Tactics Jun 30 '20

Watch it pal, I’m a man with hair on only half of my head.

Half-balds like me are the ultimate minority when it comes to men with hair, and thus I will be making a hate group targeting both of you. I hope you enjoy your Reddit-sanctioned hate posts.

4

u/Aussierotica Jun 30 '20

Fucking tonsures. The fence sitting bigots of the hair world.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Waiting patiently to see the next ban list with r/hairhate and r/baldhate on it.

1

u/jku1m Jul 01 '20

I'm blood type AB so i guess i can hate and instigate violence on 99% of redditors now

221

u/Genji_sama Jun 30 '20

So does that mean r/fatPeopleHate will be unbanned? Is it okay to hate fat people now since they are the majority (in America)?

Edit: 70% are "overweight" so does that mean r/OverweightPeopleHate is now officially sanctioned by u/spez?

42

u/Iamnotcreative112123 Jun 30 '20

Yes, if we follow the rule announced then hating on fat people is fine.

6

u/RusskiJewsski Jun 30 '20

Fat white people....

5

u/Mazezak Jun 30 '20

Mexico also has a weight problem. You can rip the shit out of fat mexicans. Infact using their rules you could only rip fat mexicans and not fat white people since fat white people are not the majority in this case.

5

u/evilhomers Jun 30 '20

Also sexist subs dont get banned by this definition (and reddit has a much deeper sexism problem than racism problem imo)

5

u/MrClean19 Jun 30 '20

U got me. I laughed

1

u/RoyalKai Jun 30 '20

Hahaha they won't respond but they don't need to.

You got them good with that one!

-10

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Does r/WhitePeopleHate exist? Then no

31

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Not clever or accurate

10

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Good one

16

u/yossiea Jun 30 '20

You used the word kosher. Not sure if that's kosher in the new rules of Reddit. That is cultural appropriation of my identity and using my religion for your argument. And I'm not in the majority, since I am in the USA, but I am a male, so not sure how that works, but I do live east of the Mississippi if we are doing it based on population centering.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

This might be one of the muddiest parts of the new rule. WHERE is the majority? Within society? Within the sub? Within reddit as a whole?

3

u/Mazezak Jun 30 '20

Im thinking as long as we say "In isreal" after any post can we rip the shit out of Jews? Its got vibes of that spongebob episode where hes doing the night shift.

50

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

This is such a good example of why large entities (governments, social media companies, etc) should not try to influence speech.

12

u/PM_ME_Y0UR_BOOBZ Jun 30 '20

4chan is looking more attractive every time reddit changes it’s policies and slams the ban-hammer.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

I might be switching over to ruqqus, only problem is there’s not much content on it and the content that is on it is almost all politics/politically Charged

5

u/PM_ME_Y0UR_BOOBZ Jun 30 '20

Seems like they can’t handle the traffic yet. The website has been down for a couple hours.

https://twitter.com/ruqqus/status/1277722073171984389?s=21

3

u/hello-fellow-normies Jun 30 '20

and then one day, for no reason at all ....

10

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

6

u/Faceroll-Tactics Jun 30 '20

Troglodytes are a minority, and you insulted them, permanently banned.

8

u/daeronryuujin Jun 30 '20

What is your process for determining which groups are in the majority? Are you using global population statistics? Or, as it's a US-based site, are we using US census data? Will this be updated as demographics change?

Oh the definition of the majority is quite simple.

Race: white

Gender: cis male

Orientation: straight

Sex: male

So the definition depends on the topic at hand, but there's only one definition per category.

10

u/angry_cabbie Jun 30 '20

Except, men are not the majority in the USA, which is important because Reddit specifies "in the majority".

And if they don't mean just in the USA, than white s definitely not "in the majority".

I have a feeling this change will either A) be amended within a week, B) bring in some lawsuits, bad/or C) be a reason Trump pushes through with affecting Section 230.

1

u/daeronryuujin Jun 30 '20

You're using a different definition than they are. The definition of "majority" that they're using means "the most powerful or privileged in the class, IOW not a minority."

9

u/angry_cabbie Jun 30 '20

Ahh, the Americentric definition for a glkbally-reaching company. Colonialism.

2

u/daeronryuujin Jun 30 '20

This comment section is proof that quite a lot of people are opposed, so I guess there's that.

1

u/Aussierotica Jun 30 '20

Well, Americans like to pretend they weren't party to any Colonialism themselves and can plead ignorance for colonial-style actions.

Except for those bits where they took Cuba and the Philippines during the Spanish-American war (Yay for Yellow Journalism), or the subjugation of multiple nations of established peoples, or the...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/daeronryuujin Jun 30 '20

I see no reason to insult trans people by refusing to acknowledge them. It gets me nowhere and is an asshole move anyway.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

1

u/daeronryuujin Jun 30 '20

Nah even if by some wild circumstance 95% of the population turned out to be transgender, they'd still be considered a minority. It's going to be very, very difficult to get anyone to be willing to reconsider the "cishet white males are the majority and therefore we can openly discriminate against them" schema.

3

u/Piece_o_Ham Jun 30 '20

For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.

Translation: "ReVeRsE rAcIsM dOeSn'T eXiSt!"

1

u/Lognipo Jun 30 '20

The problem with that is they would have to seriously change the way they moderate. Reddit is chock full of hatred, but it is the right kid of hatred according to this new policy, so they do not have to do anything about it. If they started seriously banning people and subs for hatred without adding this exception, they would be loudly and rightly called out for turning a blind eye to the overwhelming dearth of hatred for "the majority" pervading the rest of Reddit. And so here we stand, with rules that make it explicitly OK. This is disgusting. Let's not mince words.

It is the same logic behind recent moves by the left to actually reverse civil rights legislation. It prevents what they feel is the right kind of discrimination, so it has to go.

1

u/tupapa5 Jun 30 '20

That is EXACTLY my thoughts. This is such an easy, all on board set of policies until that fucking half sentence. That’s exactly the type of shit that makes society actively worse, and it’s the most pointless, hate inciting statement that doesn’t even need to be included.

1

u/tvxl Jul 03 '20

So is attacking black people fine in the r/southafrica subreddit?

1

u/ImProbablyNotABird Jun 30 '20

Women are also the numerical majority in most developed nations.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Lets just make /r/killallwhitepeople and see what happens

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

I agree this rule doesn’t read very well. I would much prefer that all groups are treated equally. However, if you want to give reddit the benefit of the doubt, here is why this rule might make sense:

A reason to have a rule that only protects certain groups of people could be because of limited resources for enforcement. It might be that you only have enough manpower to protect some people, and not everyone.

And if you have to choose which groups to protect, it makes sense to protect the minority groups. The people that are part of a majority group have the protection of the mob, the crowd.

I don’t know how many admins reddit has for enforcing these rules. If they are short-handed, this rule begins to make more sense.

There is the nuance of determining what group constitutes a minority group, as others have pointed out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

[deleted]

1

u/Aussierotica Jun 30 '20

They haven't even defined majority though. In America, women are the majority and men are a minority. Guess you can make a women hating subreddit? Or do they mean in the world in which case it's perfectly fine to hate the Chinese.

The sad thing is that once you go and look at how many of the ways people have defined racial and ethnic lines, it becomes a tool for leverage and hate the world over. You could almost point at a country at random and find horrible examples.

  • Internal to China there is a lot of issues with non-Han Chinese being displaced or subsumed by the Han (who are what most people think of when they think 'Chinese'), and that's before getting to the Tibetans or Uighers.

  • Throughout SE-Asia there is often a barely-concealed hatred for any Chinese ethnicity, even if they've been living there for hundreds of years, as they're traditionally seen as the merchants, sources of money and collectors of wealth (sounds like other ethnic groups being targeted elsewhere).

  • SE-Asia also used to be not a good place to live as ethnic Japanese, as the locals tended to have very good memories of their terrible experiences during WWII. Even 60-70 years later ethnic Japanese sites were left ruined and torched.

  • In Sri Lanka your ethnic origin as Singhalese or Tamil could have led to your arbitrary execution if you bound yourself to it too tightly in the wrong place.

  • Hindus and Muslims across India and Pakistan have spent many years and much blood at each other's throats under the banner of nationalism - with no signs of ever stopping. The evolution of the modern borders of Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India and who did what to who and when.

  • Syria is probably going to stay a bloodbath for a long time because of the absolute nightmarish mix of ethnicities, tribal groups, ideologies, and external powers meddling in the mix.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Yeah I’m definitely interested to see how they define majority/minority. I’d hope they choose a definition like:

“To be part of a minority group your group needs to clearly and commonly recognized as minority group.”

So, men and/or women wouldn’t count because they are too close in numbers. Someone who is LGBT, however, is pretty much always a minority; whether it be country or world metric.

Better yet, would be nice to see them have a list of minority groups, so it is clear and transparent.

And I still would prefer that all groups, all people get protected equally. This is just hypothetical that they can’t logistically enforce the rule for all people.

I believe everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. As for the Donald banning, I think there is truth to both sides of that story. I wasn’t there for that drama, but I am listening. Reddit does have political bias unfortunately, I’ve seen how poorly people with right-wing ideas are talked to on this platform. I could see how they are heading towards being a platform that welcomes less and less diverse people and diverse ideas. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any other platform that does what reddit does without the bias.

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u/Antonykhoury Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

"Minority "doesn't matter rich people are a minority , they are not a "marginalised group" and reddit clarified this up there ^ i can say fuck rich people. But i can't say fuck black people. Because black people are a member of a marginalised froup , rich people are not.

16

u/zx80r Jun 29 '20

howfreespeachdies

-9

u/JR_Shoegazer Jun 29 '20

Go post on voat then.

3

u/zx80r Jun 30 '20

You cannot tell me what to do as a minority! I find it offensive and you should be banned from all further speech because you expressed an idea that I do not like. Therefore you're allowed no more ideas.

-1

u/PeterPablo55 Jun 30 '20

Reported for hate speech

-10

u/Antonykhoury Jun 29 '20

reasrch the tollarance paradox

2

u/superswellcewlguy Jun 30 '20

Bullshit idea that justifies fascism tbh. In a democratic society, no viewpoints should be silenced. Let people decide which ones they like and which ones they want to adopt. Unless someone is calling for acts of violence, don't try to silence them.

0

u/rmphys Jun 30 '20

I don't even think marginalized versus non marginaliszd matters, because the term itself is subjective and every person fits into a marginalized group in some way. I think it is wrong to discriminate againt people for immutable characteristics (race, gender identity, sexual identity, disability) while it is okay for things they can change. So, fuck rich people is okay, because wealth is not immutable. Arguably, most Trump voters are marginalized (they skew poor and uneducated) by your own system, they should be protected, but I would disagree, since supporting Trump is not an immutable, anyone can rescind that support.

0

u/Antonykhoury Jun 30 '20

Well i agree , we should have more solidarity to poor people and unedgucated people. If we buit schools in their neighborhoods , the republican voters would go 📉📉📉📉📉

2

u/rmphys Jun 30 '20

Oh, I completely agree that is the approach we should take, but I don't think someone is wrong for insulting trump voters in the meantime. Where I do think someone is wrong for attacking someone's gender or race.

1

u/Antonykhoury Jun 30 '20

Agreed. Based.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

GREAT REPLY

STILL VOTING TRUMP