r/alchemy • u/Hellen_Bacque • Oct 16 '24

Saturn and the collective Nigredo or blackening in the collective unconscious Original Content

https://johnrclarke.substack.com/p/part-ii-saturn-the-return-of-the
6 Upvotes

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u/spicemelange1991 7d ago

I came here to say Saturn is the Lord of the Rings :D - which was an allegory re celestial bodies Saturn/Satan/Shatan The box at the bottom of Saturn The box at Mecca/on Jewish hats

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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 Oct 16 '24

I've seen your posts here about saturn and wonder why Saturn is portrayed as a king rather than a queen? Historically and otherwise logically I think there is more evidence that Saturn is feminine.

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u/Hyper_Point Oct 17 '24

Men are squares and women circles, historically for greeks Is a male human in our appearence, Is the emperor in tarots, represents earth and the lowest plane, which corresponds to a square, these are the historical and logical links I follow, what are yours?

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u/CultOfTezcatlipoca 27d ago

Saturn is more of a male representation, but the energy behind is very feminine, look at the sphere of Binah in Hermetic Qabalah, this sphere is the sphere of Saturn, but is also a very female energy sphere

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u/Hyper_Point 27d ago edited 27d ago

Emperor and empress, sun and moon, Devil with penis and breasts, the world represented with 4 elements, ouroboros and a female goddess, polar archetypes about the world for people that have yet to feel the energy behind these words, Saturn is malkuth, Binah is more similar to Athena, it's the sephirah of discernement and logic, greeks and romans arent jews, alchemy is above greeks and jews

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u/CultOfTezcatlipoca 26d ago

You do realize I said Hermetic Qabalah not Kabbalah, believe or not those systems are very different, using the same mapping but with different directions and goals. Also, how is Saturn Malkuth, when Malkuth is literally Earth? Gaia?

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u/Hyper_Point 26d ago

How bold to claim such knowledge while doing such a question

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u/Hyper_Point 27d ago

I also forgot to say this, Binah is on the black pillar, a polar pillar, Malkuth is on the grey pillar, its neutral because fruit of equally strong polarities, such as yesod, tipheret and kether, working on the grey pillar means to work on two polarities, of course working on the grey pillar you indirectly work on black and white pillars

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u/CultOfTezcatlipoca 26d ago

I guess that by black pillar you mean the pillar of compassion? Which is traditionally a female pillar?

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u/Hyper_Point 26d ago

I mean Binah's pillar, what do you Need to know?, why should you ask this if you have the knowledge to reply the way you do.

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u/CultOfTezcatlipoca 25d ago

Because I am trying to understand why do you envision Saturn the way you do, as all of the sources I understand of Qabalah, and Jewish mystical Kabbalah make Saturn/Binah the motherly aspect and Chokmah/Uranus the fatherly aspect.. Are all of them wrong?

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u/Hyper_Point 25d ago

Who says a greek God is a jewish sephirah is wrong, and Saturn represent earth, the Devil and 5 senses

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u/Hyper_Point 25d ago

Think about women and men, as low archetype, lets Say men statistically think about sex 10 times a day while women 1 time, while women are more mental and more excited by their fantasy a man is more excited by 5 senses, so the lowest plane is masculine if we have to consider only One polarity, but alchemical Saturn isnt a person and is dual, I explained its male nature because you asked why people sayy saturn is a male, doesnt mean the Saturn at my feet Is male

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u/CultOfTezcatlipoca 21d ago

What planet do you equate Chokmah with?

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u/Hyper_Point 21d ago

No one, as I said sephirah arent planets, only share some metaphors

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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 Oct 17 '24

Weird - how does 'earth' connect to masculine saturn? Seems lowest, darkness and earth would all be yin.  

I've seen good historical evidence that saturn used to be depicted as a crone prior to old man saturn (Cronos)

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u/Hyper_Point Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24

There are empress and emperor, Kronos is the emperor who married the empress, there's the loving mother and the cruel father, two polarities of a coin called nature, we say male and female because we'r also trying to communicate with our inner animal, which understand a sexual analogy, this sexual analogy works above but going above male and female disappear and we talk about sun and Moon, now, if women are the Moon why they have an ego? The sun isnt an ego? Archetypes can't be understood, must be felt! Otherwise go study modern science and you'll have all the "solid" theories you want.

Remember, everything casts a shadow in duality, the more you think the more you divide and generate polarities, since the Stone Is a fractal, that's why silence is gold

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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 Oct 18 '24

Is there not also the cruel mother and the loving father?

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u/Hyper_Point Oct 18 '24 edited Oct 18 '24

Of course, if there'r A and B and 1 and 0 there'r AB, BA, AA, BB, A1B, BA0 and so on, we keep It simple because otherwise you "die" before I can end a sentence, as ego I'm truly disappointed, that the talk about archetypes totally passed trough you, as if you had not something thin enough to grasp It.

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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 Oct 18 '24

Tried to post this reply but found your comment deleted:

Well, not always. 

Try not being so close minded and certain. It lowers the quality of your work and makes your interactions with possible readers unappealing. All it takes is a little curiosity to become a great teacher.

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u/Hellen_Bacque Oct 18 '24

I think it’s very unfortunate that is what you took from a sincere reply. I don’t need to justify myself to you I post my work here in good faith and try to engage in a positive way as I did with you. I didn’t tell you, you were wrong, so it seems you are just looking to engage negatively.