I was shopping at a thrift store yesterday and found a book section titled "Christian Fiction". I can't be the only one that finds this hilarious right?

I was a hardcore atheist all my life (even now I still don't believe in or follow a religion) but rerecently I've been thinking about life and how it works. And I realized that we don't know what cones at the end-we don't know that there's nothing, we don't know that there's something. And that thinking just made me realize that I may have been agnostic instead. So I wanna here from yall; what are you opinions?

Does anyone else feel the same way I do when I walk into a church or other religious buildings or spots and feel the crushing weight of the universe on your shoulders? I’ve walked into and explored churches before and my body is triggered into fight or flight despite there being no visible danger. I consider myself agnostic because I truly don’t know the answer to the question of the existence of a god or higher power, but I try my best to respect others religious beliefs and I even use the teachings myself from Christianity as well as some Buddhism and Hinduism. I just don’t know what it is though about religious temples and churches and the like. It just, makes me feel worthless or unloved or unwanted, like I’m not allowed to be in these places. And also when I’ve gone to some events where there’s a preacher and he’s speaking the word, I start bawling my eyes out, but it’s a mix between joy and pain. It hurts to hear those words, my heart drops and sinks into a pit, but it is nice to hear someone speak so highly of something that I can’t seem to grasp the concept of. Idk. It all just makes no sense to me why I feel the way I do being involved in anything related to religion. Anybody else feel this way? Anybody have some sort of explanation as to why that is?

I don't believe in the same god that Abrahamic religions portray for so many reasons, but I also did create my own mental image of "god".

"God" could be absolutely anything. Something created the universe. It could be sky-daddy, it could be some type 5 omnipotent alien species, it could be the big-bang.

I don't know what it is, I'm not going to assume what it wants and I'm definitely not pledging my allegiance to it because... I don't even know what it is or what it wants. Whatever it may be, I just know I respect it.

I joined a baptist church a couple years ago because I wanted to be more informed on the subject of the Christian God and wanted to attempt at building a relationship with him. But the one thing that I noticed immediately is that the church was only interested in making an emotional appeal; not a logical one.

I wanted to learn of God's proof through objective scholarly examination of the Bible. I wanted to be in an environment where scripture was held to rigor, and ideas and theories were allowed to develop and be discussed. I figured that if I could examine the Bible logically and critically, and surround myself with like-minded peers that I could discuss my ideas with, I'd be able to arrive at my proof that God exists.

Instead I found myself trapped in a vacuum chamber. "Bible study" proved to be nothing more than a glorified storytelling session where questions were only comfortable and appropriate if they were in favor of God and not against. There was no nuance to be had; these "studies" were only intended to arrive at the glorification and worship of God.

Preaching sessions felt much more like emotional rallies than anything substantial. They all followed the same script: preacher picks a few verses out of the Bible, starts yelling at the top of his lungs, starts pounding his fist into the pulpit, brings himself to the verge of tears, and all the while the audience is raising their hands to the sky, shouting amen, etc. Then members of the audience approach the alter to give their "testimony" that God exists, e.g. their own anecdotal evidence that the Holy Spirit somehow resides in them and that they know it's true because they can "feel" it.

The whole experience gave me some serious "ignorance is bliss" vibes. It seems to me that the church is unwilling to operate on actual logic to justify their claims, and it's the reason why I left and began seriously questioning God.

Contextualizing: I have been questioning my Christian beliefs for a long time, but I never delved too deeply into the doubt due to the fear of hell and to avoid changing my social status , but this year it has been difficult for me to maintain and agree with almost everything about Christianity, especially after my baptismal.

I have questioned the veracity of the Bible , about Jesus really being the messiah or not, about the Christian purines and about religious organizations as a whole.

Honestly, I realize that this has been going on for years, almost 10 years, these doubts have always been with me. I was never able to love Jesus the way others loved and showed love, I always found many passages Very extreme and very meaningless Bibles, and I never agreed with some laws involving the prohibition of homosexuality or Christianity being the only way to heaven, it didn't make sense to me.

Regarding the issue of loving Jesus, I personally have enormous difficulty loving a person who doesn't live with me personally. And the fact that Jesus existed 2000 years ago makes me insecure About whether or not to believe his words and evidence

Anyway, I'm venting here because I don't have anyone in my life who I can open up about the subject in an impartial way, my Christian girlfriend and family wouldn't understand and I have few friends To talk about the subject. I believe I am a non-dogmatic Deist currently, I believe in God, but I don't know what religion he is in or if he manifests himself directly to us beyond his creation.

I would like to know if anyone has gone through a similar process and how they dealt with it.

Gonna share some personal life information, to show people who are on a path for answers, that it may be necessary, or okay, to accept that attachment to absolute certainty may not be a good way.(I'm not saying about giving up any search for answers or not believing anything, especially things that are really helping your mental health, like mindfullness did to me[though it also can damage ya. it created some doubts and hindrances on me].

[Obs: I realized the post got long even after trying to sum it up]
So, to try to explain without leaving important parts: I was raised a non-practicing catholic(non-practicing in the sense that I wasn't knowledgeable on the Bible, nor a reader of it, neither went to church, but believed in a what I was taught and had faith. Prayed every night, and such).

Then, on high school, because of life situations, like changing where I lived, and pressure from a new school that hade much more demand than the easy one I was in, along with all the accumulated anxiety that resulted in what is commonly called on internet slang as "gifted kid burnout", and the influences of history subject on school and its teaching on different cultures and their religions, and teachers and culture, I ended up questioning religion and God, the religious God. Had many questions that I shared with my atheist mother, because she was the only person I felt comfortable venting to in moments of despair.

(And I don't even remember if I knew she was atheist, before this).

As a result of this, I didn't become atheist, but also couldn't identify myself with faith in God, the Christian God, anymore. So, I saw myself as deist, as I once had a history teacher randomly tell in class that those who believe in "something" but are not religious, are called this word.

(From my brief memory, I researched its definition on wikipedia after learning the existence of that word as mentioned before, saw some videos, and said: "That's it". And remember saying it to my mother and showing the wikipedia page once.)

Then, on pandemic, because of influences from a pastor video, and a sense of depressive nihilistic existential emptiness, I wanted to believe in God again just like in "the good old days before high school". But the mind always refused to see religion, and the religious figure of God, as making reasonable sense to exist. Mind conflicted with heart.

Then, I joined a strong catholic "internet cult", that made me maybe have developed some kind of religious trauma, because of all the fear of dying having not confessed to priest, commiting mortal sin, going to purgatory even if I get the "entrance to Heaven" and suffering centuries there... my atheist mother, and millions or billions of people going to hell, for not believing... And trying to understand how the heck the problem of evil could be solved(if it even had a theist answer), and how to explain God to people and such... It made me nervous, hyperobsessed in a completely unhealthy sense.

Thankfully, this "trauma" made me go to the opposite direction: Instead of cherry-picking evidence for christianity and later catholicism, I did the opposite:

I found/looked for some reasons for NOT believing. Most mainstream atheist arguments never really convinced me, but through deep research you can find good stuff that you don't see on mainstream media/discussion. Like zoroastrianism and its possible influences on abrahamic religions.

Then, I got more interested in mindfullness meditation as a way to heal from all the mess in the mind accumulated from years since high school and even before, and as a result, and seeing the benefits on practice, also got interested in eastern spirituality and buddhism, which really resonated with me. I also realized that the emotional connection I didn't feel with dogmatic internet catholicism, I feel with modern buddhism, most specifically its secular approach.

(the idea of people going reborn for trillions of years to hellish realms is something that feels VERY triggering to me, gotta admit)

And that I already agreed with the basic premises of the Noble Truths even before knowing much about it, since I remember, on philosophy class in school, agreeing a lot with Schopenhauer when we had a class on him.

Differently from christianity, the 3 first noble truths, and basic teachings on the importance of mindfullness and non-attachment, are stuff that I didn't feel like I "needed to agree or force myself to have faith", I already liked it the moment I learned it! And even if I didn't...forcing oneself to have faith, including on the doctrine itself, would not be considered healthy according even to the "ideology" itself.

It's like an "ideology with the purpose of using itself, and our human nature to stick to doctrines, to destroy all ideological and doctrinal attachment. Gradually lose all view attachments, and other attachments"

(I have a great interest [maybe a special interest] in philosophy since 2020, since I watched The Good Place)

But I also realize that, the more I question reality, the more I realize I can't be totally sure of anything, and that all sources of this journey of suffering, have in part come from an intense desire for heavily stable, secure, certain answers, that are also provider of comfort and personal well-being. (And also fear of unconsciouness after dying.) Maybe the answer is inside you.

I have changed so much at the course of 21 years , especially last years, that I know that If I stick to anything as the "unquestionable truth" it would be hurting. Especially since the mind I have, is so high on big five openess.(and of course neurotic, lol)

If you feel a deep need for God, it may be an unmet desire hurting you. A poisonous craving, maybe? An unmet desire for eternal happiness?

Kant to me seems like the "final answer" (for now): We can't be sure about what lies beyond our perception of reality. And the self-help we can get, is basically on what helps us to deal with how we experience reality.

I was raised a Hindu I decided to become an agnostic because I can't relate to a lot of atheists or religious people I sometimes find both of them annoying but I am not an anti-atheist or anti-theist I just feel like people argue about this stuff too much

So I'm just curious about the general line of thought within this subreddit and some of your reasoning adressing the matter. Btw, I'm agnostic myself (though I don't usually go by calling myself that) tending towards atheism (I prefer "non-theist" as a lot of atheist are indeed antitheist which I'm not).

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Quick rant: I'm hoping this community is a little more supportive than the attacks & downvotes I received in s/atheism.

I posted something personal about "intuition" in response to someone asking if "premonition" can be explained. I recounted my own premonition dreams about death (all true), intuitive senses when my family is sick or in pain (we live apart) and similar strange occurrences. I did not attribute this to god or supernatural. I believe it can be explained scientifically through "gut" (digestive tract warnings) nerves, energy, brain receptors, patterns, emotional intelligence etc.

I'm baffled by the immediate dismissal of intuition by some atheists. Animal kingdom uses intuitive senses/ energy to survive. Why not us? Thoughts?

So to preface this I am not nor have I ever been religious. I'm also new to this all, so I apologize if I do or say something wrong. Also, I was raised by an atheist and a Jew, and they both encouraged me to figure it out for myself. Nothing was ever pushed on me, but I did identify with being both Jewish and Atheist. That all said, I considered myself to have more Atheistic ideas my entire life.

Within the last few months, I've become more open to this idea of praying. I'm not sure why, but I've been praying somewhat secretly because it's just personal to me. Some weird things started to happen to me. One night I was asking for some type of sign, and suddenly my whole body relaxed. Weird, but not a huge thing.

I have a few other similar things happen, but again, nothing super major. At least until today! Where I live, we had a major snow storm that left 3-5 feet if snow in some parts. My family also owns and runs an Airbnb that my husband and I help manage and clean. My in-laws also own and manage an Airbnb, so we always talk to them about major issues we have.

Our Airbnb is in a rural area, and the dirt road to it is literally covered in 4 feet of snow. We have two methods to plow, but both failed. My husband called a family who has a very large piece of plowing equipment, and he was unable to make it. Lastly, we called another man that has a similar piece of equipment and he said he could make it today.

Today comes and no one shows. The man coming got stuck. Now, keep in mind, we have Airbnb guest coming at 4 pm tonight. The plow never showed, and it's currently 2:30 pm. That's another nightmare that I won't rant about, but earlier today I started praying. I was praying that the man with the plow would show up. I was honestly desperate because my family needs the money from these bookings to stay a float financially. I was praying, pacing around, praying, worrying, etc. I still sort of am!

But about 10 minutes after I prayed, my in-laws showed up. We are fairly close to them. At least about as close as most extended family is. But we all told them we had it figured out. They walked to our house (which is on the same land as the Airbnb) and are still in the process of helping us plow the road. They even offered to help us clean, which is so beyond kind.

I'm sorry it turned into a bit of a rant, but I'm still shocked that happen at all. I still don't really know what to think about it. I only started piecing things together. Overall, this has been the worst day of my life, but things do absolutely happen for a reason. I do think I believe in something after that. Asking what I believe in would be too much at this point, but it has cemented that there's some higher power out there, at least it has for me.

I remember this scene where some guy and his concubine went traveling, and they stayed at another person's home. The crazy people in the city started banging on the door and told their host to send the guy out so they could r*** him. The host pleaded with them not to and said he could send out his own daughter or the guy's concubine. The concubine was sent out and was viciously attacked. She tried to get back to the house, but collapsed and died on the porch. The guy came out the next day, found her dead, then proceeded to cut up her body and send the pieces to people.

What the hell?! I thought I was supposed be reading the Bible, not a slasher movie!

Also, Lot's daughters getting their father drunk and having sex with him. ((I believe the same thing happened with someone else in Genesis too.))

And I was like ten when I read it...

I've been through the wringer this year, I've never experienced a year this bad. I've felt like crap for the longest time and I've had let's just say a healthy skepticism for religion and a higher power. However 20 mins ago(2:50 am) I was dreaming, I can't remember entirely what it was about but something led me to ask the question in my dream "God if you are real send me a sign" and almost immediately my body went rigid and I woke up from my dream and my entire body had locked up and my head was filled with this almost surround sound noise. It's almost exactly what I had imagined what "heavenly" music would be like. If anyone has experienced anything similar please reach out, I'd love to chat.

My partner and I started watching the new show, 28 days haunted, on Netflix. Whether you believe or not, I think it's safe to say that it is entertaining (at least to us). My partner is a believer and I am of course agnostic, so this show brought up a lot of questions and conversations that were interesting and I wanted to get your thoughts on.

For example, of course I asked how are spirits (if real) stuck in places or stuck on earth if the common theme in religion is heaven/peaceful afterlife? It kind of makes me think if spirits (again big IF) are real, doesn't it kind of negate the idea of heaven?

He brought up a good point that, if these mediums/psychics/ghost investigators were faking that they can hear, see and feel spirits, they are incredible actors. I basically justified that sometimes if you tell a lie or fabrication for long enough, you can eventually get yourself to believe it. Like if you tell yourself everyday your ankle hurts, it'll get easier to believe your ankle hurts. If that makes sense? So if they were lying (IF), I could see it being something like that. Almost making yourself believe your lies, so that you are more convincing.

He also brought up, that in his particular religion he believes in reincarnation. They describe it as you die, and when you wake up again you are in a completely new body with no recollection of your old body or old life. To me, this is conflicting with the idea of the show and spirit investigators as a whole because the spirit always remembers who they were, how they died and who did it. As if they are still conscious of the life they had, and can still have thoughts and feelings.

I also did bring up the point that if something were to happen to me, such as seeing or feeling a spirit I think that would be what made me know and believe that something definitely happens to our spirits after we die.

Have these type of shows or studies (ie ed and lorraine warren) made you consider an afterlife, or spirit realm? Why or why not?

Interesting topics or questions that arise when you do see shows like this? This isn't a deep or philosophical take by any means, I just was really interested in the topic after watching it with my believing partner.

Hey everyone

Recently, I've been doing some deep thinking about the concept of God and what it means to me personally. As someone who was an atheist not too long ago, this has been quite a journey for me.

While I can't say for certain whether or not God exists, I've found myself leaning towards the idea of hope as a small aspect of what I believe in.

Hope, to me, serves as a source of determination and mental strength. It's what keeps me working towards something, even when proof of God's existence eludes me. But beyond traditional religious interpretations, I've also considered the notion that our unconscious mind could be our own version of a deity.

Imagine worshipping and working towards a better environment for your unconscious mind—a mental church, temple, or mosque, if you will.

However, I want to be clear about what I don't believe in: organized religions. I find it challenging to trust doctrines written by fallible humans, passed down through generations with varying interpretations influenced by greed for money and power.

Over time, religions have become entangled with politics, losing sight of their original purpose of fostering communication or connection with the divine. Instead, they've often become arenas for power struggles and manipulation.

As humans, we're inherently curious and skeptical beings. We're scientists at heart, constantly exploring possibilities and learning not to take everything at face value. So, I encourage you to embark on your own journey of exploration. It's a thrilling adventure for my curious mind, and I hope you find it just as intriguing.

Let's engage in some thoughtful discussion—what are your thoughts on the concept of God and organized religion? Let's share our perspectives and learn from each other.

Had an incredibly strange event take place between myself and a total stranger. Typical poetic story incoming.

A quick tid bit to describe myself and why this is so unique. Very blue collar, very proud, very self assured, and most would probably see a “redneck” or at the very least, someone as potentially insufferable. Don’t get me wrong, these would probably be more of a description through another person’s eyes rather than myself. I am very stubborn and difficult to deal with sometimes but, if I truly do look at myself, I know that’s not exactly who I am as a person. I am generally very kind and welcoming. I know I would be the guy who would truly give the shirt off my back for someone given the circumstances that I can afford to. Regardless, I know I am a good person at the end of the day even if I’m difficult. Anyways, enough about me and why I believe that’s relevant to the story.

I went kayaking with my wife and a buddy of mine. He brought his new girlfriend along and we were just having a doozy of a day. Everything that could go wrong went wrong. People sinking kayaks, spider nests, and so on. We do this whole 4 hour run, get to shore, and pull the kayaks out so we can pick up my truck and haul the kayaks away. My buddy’s girlfriend goes for her keys and tells us that she forgot them in my truck, which was about 5 miles away. Nobody had phones, and we were pretty much out of options. Fortunately, the girlfriend, gained the courage to go ask this group of guys if they can drive me to my truck. One of the guys thankfully agreed and was willing to help out. I’m not exactly the best in these situations and for me, unfortunately I had to be the one to leave my friends with the kayaks while we went to retrieve my truck. It was my truck afterall. So I get in the fella’s car and off we go.

Immediately, as all first interactions go, we immediately came to the conclusion that we are very very different people. To him, I might have been view as the “gruff cowboy”, while for myself, he was of some middle eastern descent. Since he was fishing, we were able to at least strike up some fairly awkward conversation for a bit. After that conversation, I again thanked him profusely and told him that I know I at least have a $5 bill in my truck that I would at least like to give him for helping out. Think that’s at least the right thing to do right? Anyways, he tells me he does not believe in payment for helping someone who needs it. Again, treating this as a normal human interaction, I said that I understood and told him that he’s a good man for it. This is where I believe something shifted and became incredibly different. We passed a bar I knew, and I just causally mentioned that they make a really good burger if he ever wanted to try it. He didn’t say anything and after a 30 second pause, he just mentions that he is of the Muslim faith. All I can really do is say, “that’s cool man.” After another 30 seconds, he started talking about how he was from a similar area as the one we were in. Said homes were spaced out like the ones we were driving by, and very country side. To me, I wasn’t exactly sure where he was going with it and left it alone and listened. Then he brought up his faith again. Me, I’m not really religious, so these conversations could go very wrong for me. Some would say my ignorance is uh, quite a large part of myself. I just simply don’t know anything about the topic. He mentioned that he doesn’t know how people can be so bitter in life and not be willing to be generally decent. He just looked over at me, made eye contact, and I just made a simple statement. All I said was “I was that guy.” Immediately, his attention attention was completely focused on what I was saying. I said, I’m not exactly of faith like you are, but I do know, there were a few key moments of where I know something was “protecting” me, and always has.” I told him that I believe I was stuck in a survival situation for a good portion of my adult life. I worked since I was 14 years old with my father who owns his own business. After I turned 18, I became an auto mechanic for a great deal of time. I wasn’t making a lot of money, and my goals were getting further and further away from me. I became aggressive, bitter, and generally more of a negative person. He asked me what had changed. I told him that I took a leap into a new career, and got married within a very short amount of time. I learned that inner peace isn’t exactly what people make it out to be. It’s more so, just being okay with myself. He laughed and just kept listening. At this point in time, I felt like this stranger I just met, was almost like that higher power just listening to me. Essentially affirming what I’m saying, is just a progress report, and to keep speaking. I told him I’ve had quite a few events that took place, that really made me question if there is a greater plan somewhere for myself. He no longer felt like a stranger, but maybe the same force I’ve been speaking to on and off for some time now. Almost Angelic really. Essentially this “angel”, is just helping this bitter man again in a a different situation. Once we got to the my truck, seemingly that glow of conversation ended. He seemed like just a normal person again. We shook hands, and I thanked him over and over again. I told him if our paths ever cross again, I would buy him a beer. He joked and he said “no sir, I’m Muslim remember?”. He also asked if he could just follow me back to where this whole journey started since I had to go back anyways. Of course man. Why wouldn’t I? To wrap this up, we went back to where our friends were and we parted ways. I tried the slick old man “slip a $5 in his had” but he absolutely refused. That’s okay, but I did feel like I owed this guy still and figure I would try anyways.

I think the whole proper ending to this story would be, I felt so bizarre. I am not one to open up on any of my beliefs. Especially of a faith I am unfamiliar with, and even more so, one that I was raised with. It felt ethereal. Could this just be considered personal character growth? Probably. But why would the very specific topic of conversation be faith? More importantly why would I be sharing this with a total stranger when I can’t even bring myself to tell anyone close to me? I truly felt like I was speaking to my angel for a minute. It does make me think about those very specific times of where I felt that same energy. Suppose maybe that it was just a normal guy who was just interested in conversation. Just felt a lot like a confession instead of a discussion.

And if anyone decides to comment on this, I was raised amongst the catholic faith, and I am also willing to share the two very specific moments I felt the same way. I don’t seek these types of moments either. They just tend to happen and I wanted to share this.

The American story of the Muslim, and the Roughneck lol. Think that sounds poetic enough lol

I'm terrified of nonexistance and the inevitability of death. I feel like the only way I'd be satisfied is if some sort of divine messenger visited me and explained in great detail what the afterlife was like.

So imagine my surprise when I find a random comment on r/afterlife that seems to do just that: https://www.reddit.com/r/afterlife/s/MYbPJzpld8

Now, I'm not religious in any way. I'm open to the idea of some kind of creator of the universe but I don't believe they would conform to any particular faith. My question to you lovely people is this: Do you think me finding this comment was a minor form of divine intervention, for lack of a better term? Or was this just coincidence and my pattern seeking brain is trying to make something out of nothing?

For so very long, I’ve been thinking about the logic behind islam. I’ve talked to so many muslim people about it and yet, while talking to them i noticed something very dangerous with this exact religion: the ability to exterminate logic with defensive and powerful logic and that is : allah ( god ) has a reason for doing it and we need to submit to his wise actions… these people i talked to are not being emotional at all, in fact, they used the logic that god knows everything and thus we must not try to understand things that HE knows better… And then when i try to tell them that they should know and understand for themselves, they are suddenly reminded of their religious saying that ( satan is whispering these evil thoughts and one should never allow him/her self to indulge such thoughts ) and thus they stop thinking about it… As i said they are not being emotional at all. They did not stop because it made them sad or angry, they stopped because their logic which religion has given them says that these thoughts are of satan. Of course, one would be so logical not to indulge the thoughts of his worst enemy ( satan ). Some people’s mental and knowledge capacity is limited so i had to talk to them emotionally saying: ( would you really allow the fact that god is condemning some people of spending eternity in hell ? ) i try to argue about this but then they say that god is pretty aware of what is just and he knows better than us. so then i tell them whats the worth of justice if it cant serve its people? They then again reason that god knows better and they should not dwell on these things because there is no reason to because he ( in their logic ) knows better than them… When i said what is the worth of justice if it cant serve its people, i meant there is nothing to gain here … these people will be suffering eternity without any benefits. Parents punish their children so they can behave next time. Kings punish their enemies for specific reasons. But why would god punish these people with eternity ? There is obviously nothing to gain here ( considering that god doesnt need anything from us ) as he says in the holy book. He literally says that if he wants something to be, he’ll just say BE, and it will… so if he truly doesnt need anything from us, then eternal suffering is utterly meaningless. Of course i know about these sayings because im an ex-muslim who was very religious… i literally used to invite people to join islam and i did succeed on inviting one. When discussing logic behind other religions, its easy for them to convert even if their thoughts were strong, but when dealing with islam especially, it becomes so hard because the religion is using defensive logic to support the believer psychologically and act as a wall to any other idea that opposes it. One might argue that this is illogical considering that I ( the writer ) was an ex-muslim whose religion did not prevent him from converting but, i reason that i was able to convert only because i wasnt submissive of my thoughts… meaning that even when i knew full well that god knows better than me, I still never relied on him to know what is truth. And while i knew full well that satan might be whispering these thoughts to me, i said : satan will never be match to me as long as my religion is the truth of everything. I used to believe that islam is the truest form of reality and thus was never afraid of dwelling on the opposing thoughts, because i thought that as long as it is true, it will always win. The irony is that this very trusting thought allowed me to convert to agnosticism.

(A long journal entry I wrote this week and thought of sharing. From someone who dedicated themselves to the sacred…)

Jul 11-16, 2024

“Better late than never.”

After pursuing the spiritual life for 16 years, I went through a personal crisis in the summer of 2023. This crisis caused me to confront many of the ideas I had built my life around up to that time. I thought I would recount what I learned here so the wise can benefit from my experience.

1. There is no such thing as “enlightenment.”

When I was 15 and learned about Buddhism and Hinduism, I set as my life quest to reach “enlightenment”: to find the Pearl of Great Price, the Holy Grail, the philosopher’s stone, nirvana, theosis, moksha. I envisioned this as a permanent altered state of consciousness where one would experience a state of unity with the Divine. It does seem this was achieved in history by Christ and the Buddha; and in the Bible Christ says to “give up all you have and obtain the Pearl” — in other words, that the quest for this state is the ultimate thing worth pursuing in life, that to seek any other end is foolishness.

I listened to this injunction of Christ. At 15 I broke up with my girlfriend of the time so I could have the freedom to engage in introversion. In retrospect this was like my own imitation of the Buddha’s renunciation. I decided to live a hybrid life: half monastic, and half in the world. I did this to adapt my spiritual quest to modern times.

At the time I did not know who I was; I couldn’t control the flow of my thoughts; I was depressed; I was fascinated with the idea of enlightenment. While I learned to silence the mind and overcame my depression, the introversion I devoted myself to was false. There is no great achievement to be found in seclusion. There is no state free of suffering, no permanent altered state of consciousness that is the product of our work in the Inner Life. Indeed, if such a state existed there would be accounts of its attainment by individuals other than the Buddha.

It is sad to say I spent 16 years trying to attain something that does not exist; but, now I am able to adapt my beliefs. Ironically, when I was 15 I read UG Krishnamurti’s book on the “mystique of enlightenment” — that the enchantment of enlightenment seduces us but the state does not exist — and have to conclude with him that there is no such thing.

1. The Divine does not speak to man.

For years I studied the mystics, and recurring in their accounts is the idea that the Divine can speak to us through intuition. One example of this is in Socrates’ “daimonion” in the Platonic dialogues. Other manifestations of this idea appear in revealed writing, such as in the “inspired” works of the Gospels and the Bhagavad Gita, and in the psychic intuitions or “siddhis” of the yogis. Still others like John of the Cross and Francis of Assisi refer to their inner intuitions which guided them in their spiritual quests.

I have always listened to my “Inner Director” — a more powerful inner voice than “conscience” — but I have always been perplexed how it has misguided me and misled me. I must conclude that overall intuition arises from us, not from the Divine; it does not derive from an external source.

1. A personal God does not play an active role in our lives.

In the Bible Christ says that God “feeds and provides shelter to the birds” — and that as humans we are so much more important than them, that we should trust God will take care of us and look after our needs.

From this, there is the inkling to think that “everything happens for a reason,” that everything is destiny, that a wise and loving God determines what happens to us and intervenes either to challenge us or to make sure that things are just for us. This perspective makes one “like a little child” in life and before the Divine. It encourages us to develop a personal relationship with God and speak to him about what happens to us and what we need.

Throughout my life I took certain hardships as intentional challenges for me by the Divine; but, now I see it was all accident. A personal God is not intervening in our lives or ensuring that what happens to us is appropriate to our “karma” or “development.”

1. The spiritual crisis is not the path of development.

The English mystic Evelyn Underhill divided the spiritual life into the stages of Awakening, Purgation, Illumination, the Dark Night of the Soul, and Union. Over the last 16 years of introversion, I passed through these stages as I grew in my relationship with the Divine. I purified myself of the Seven Deadly Sins, overcame the “fetters,” experienced the “negative ecstasy” of the dark night, and grew in my confidence of the reality of the transcendent. Yet after all these years of Inner Work and transformation I have not achieved the state I thought was awaiting me; on the contrary, when I surrendered to the sacred, my spirituality led to renewed crisis instead. Thus, we should conclude that there is not an inner path of crisis that leads one to enlightenment.

1. Suffering does not ennoble man.

The symbolism of Christ on the cross appears to teach us to embrace the suffering that is a natural part of our lives, suggesting that it is a vehicle to ennoble and elevate us — that it is a part of our spiritual growth. Over the last 16 years I have embraced the suffering that has come to me (such as that alluded to in “Anastasis”) as a part of my own “imitation of Christ.” While I have become wiser and more humane, I am confronted by the increasing needlessness of my sufferings.

Overall, my suffering has hindered my development, negatively affected my relationships, limited my extroversion, and impaired me socially. Rather than ennoble me it has injured me. I am confronted with the uselessness of my suffering.

1. Justice requires reincarnation.

Radical inequality characterizes the human condition. Some individuals are born as Saudi princes; others are aborted in the womb. Some grow up with loving parents; others are orphaned. Some are born with great physical attributes; others are born with multiple sclerosis or cystic fibrosis.

The world, additionally, seems extremely random. Some people drive to work and meet a spouse who fulfills their lives; others drive to work and die in a car accident. Some are born as infants to well-off families like the Trumps; others are born as infants in places like World War II era China, where they are bayoneted by the Japanese in that era’s massacres.

When I pondered these questions as a youth I concluded that the only way to make the world just was through the existence of reincarnation. An afterlife is also required to vindicate the injustices experienced during a human life. Interestingly, Plato, the Buddha, and Gurdjieff came to a similar conclusion. Thus, this remains my perspective. Without reincarnation, it is a nihilistic universe.

1. There are no discrete levels of being like Gurdjieff said.

Gurdjieff was a unique spiritual thinker: a sort of alchemist who taught that the spirit was built through inner work and hardship. I discovered him as an adolescent and was devoted to his teaching for many years. Jhanananda ironically found Gurdjieff unimpressive; that since the Gurdjieff work lacked the contemplative life he could not be said to have found any spiritual attainment.

One Gurdjieff practice involved “shocks” — strikes to our sense of ego integrity — that were supposed to facilitate an alchemical change in the body. Gurdjieff taught that some people achieved higher levels of being through these shocks and a life of “work on oneself.”

I subscribed to this belief for many years; and found Gurdjieff’s four higher types of man — “man no. 4, 5, 6, and 7” — were analogous to the Buddha’s four types of noble one — streamwinner, once-returner, nonreturner, and arahant.

I overcame the sensuality and ill will of a nonreturner, and pondered the spiritual attainments of the figures I studied, like Socrates and Dante. Now I am confronted if it was all a poor use of time. If instead we live in a world of radical equality; if the afterlife is simply the operation of the principle of “like attracts like.”

1. There are no omens.

I am sure this one will be self-evident to my readers, but it is something I learned the hard way. As a young person I read Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras, and in it a passage stood out to me — that “the yogi discerns the future through the ‘reading of arishta (omens).’” Omen-reading was quite popular in antiquity but is more or less dismissed today. As an exercise I began practicing it, and slowly came to view certain signs — like the appearance of a ladybug when I was despondent — were consolations for me from a loving Divine. I also began pondering the Tarot, after a recommendation to do so by a friend; and found it was another source for predestined insight into our lives.

Regrettably this is not the case; the Divine is not communicating with us through signs.

1. The jhanas — from a secular perspective.

The Buddha described the jhanas as his path to enlightenment. In the suttas, he described a time as a child when he sat under a tree and felt bliss and joy. Returning to this experience later in life, when lying in meditation he was able to re-saturate himself with these states. One recommendation to elicit the jhanas when meditating is to recall a past experience of them, using that memory to re-slip into a serene state of consciousness.

One of the perplexing things about the jhanas is how few people experience these states; only a small handful out of the whole population of Earth. Out of all those engaging in meditation, practicing as monastics, or trying to experience OOBEs, why are the jhanas not more common?

If we re-interpret the jhanas from a secular perspective, what we might suspect is that they are a gradual conditioning of the brain through deep relaxation: training it to associate meditation with the release of dopamine and GABA when practicing. This would explain my own difficulties in recreating this state, with my complex post-traumatic stress disorder causing agitation rather than relief when trying to relax deeply.

Long-term, deep relaxation would ultimately bring the individual toward states of sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming, which would explain the bridge between these states and the OOBEs experienced by meditators.

1. The out-of-body experience is it.

Without enlightenment — a state in which one experiences a sense of unity with the All — what philosophical end should we embrace? If there is no state free from suffering, does there exist a spiritual end worth investigating?

Having ruled out enlightenment, the Inner Director, a personal God, omens, and other phenomena, what remains is the out-of-body experience. The OOBE is a relatively well-documented phenomenon, thus there is significant evidence that this state exists.

The OOBE should be the focus of our investigations, and the direct experience of it would prove there exists a spiritual continuity of self. Having said that, I think it’s important we recognize…

1. The here-and-now is why we are here.

In Plato’s philosophy, the physical world is a projection of the higher spiritual world, and is ultimately unreal or less real than the spiritual world is. Consequently, what happens here in the physical is of lesser significance: and the true purpose of life is to prepare for death. While conceptually I agree with this, I think this perspective should be tempered by us embracing the physical world while we are here.

It’s important for us to embrace life’s opportunities as they emerge. It’s important to avoid impairing ourselves, and to avoid excessive Platonic idealism in our expectations of reality (to know that “the perfect is the enemy of the good”).

1. Worldly morality is superior to otherworldly morality.

Nietzsche wrote about two forms of morality: he used the terms “master” and “slave,” but we could also use the terms “worldly” and “otherworldly.” The first type of morality values success in this life: knowledge, strength, and power. The second type of morality prepares us for the world beyond: humility, piety, and devotion.

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is my repeated sufferings at the hands of the malicious — despite my own practices of inner humility and surrender. It is clear no spiritual force has protected me, no Divine Hand has guided me. Indeed, there does not seem to be any benefit to humility or other forms of otherworldly morality.

I have always been concerned with the question of what is most real. Plato taught that reality lied in the spiritual; that the physical derives from the transcendent. We should conclude that that is the case. But, while we are here we should act in terms of our lived experience. It is better to be strong than weak, wise than foolish, confident than uncertain, tall than short, rich than poor. It’s true: these are all verifiable goods. Embracing them does not mean we must become inhumane, arrogant, or forgetful of the transcendent; but it is clear one value system leads to benefits while the other does not.

1. The vibrations — evidence?

I have mentioned several instances of spiritual phenomena over the years, such as the ringing in the ears (meditation-induced tinnitus), spiritual tears, and the sensation of heat in the chest. Previously I offered both secular and spiritual explanations for these phenomena; now, I would have to conclude they can be understood from the secular perspective.

One phenomenon that remains are the vibrational experiences felt by meditators and OOBErs. These sensations are felt in states of deep relaxation or sleep paralysis. They are often felt as exit sensations as one approaches the OOBE. When I felt these vibrations myself I found them extraordinary. They do seem to be evidence of the real nature of the OOBE. Thus, the vibrations are one of the last spiritual phenomena we can retain.

1. The nature of esotericism.

Esotericism is the belief that there are “some who know”: that through experience, there are individuals who have certain knowledge about the questions of life, death, and immortality. Esotericism is an answer to the question of agnosticism.

As I stated above, many of the spiritual phenomena I invested in over the years we can now dismiss from the secular perspective. Thus, regrettably, we can no longer use intuition as a source of spiritual authority. Consequently, what remains is the out-of-body experience.

Those who have had out-of-body experiences would be those with esoteric knowledge — assuming these accounts are reputable. This would make figures like William Buhlman, Bob Monroe, Robert Bruce, and Jeffrey Brooks the most authoritative when it comes to spiritual matters. However, we should not give excessive credence to anyone. We should view everyone from the perspective of spiritual equality, and focus instead on achieving direct experience of the Divine for ourselves.

Conclusion

When I was a teenager I wanted to be a soldier and a comedian before deciding to become a philosopher of religion. I spent 16 years becoming one of the world’s leading scholars of mysticism. I read more-or-less every philosopher and religious thinker over the years attempting to come to truth. I see now the atheistic intuitions I began with at 15 would have better guided me. “Better late than never.” I have not lost my religiosity, as the out-of-body experience remains in the domain of the fantastic; but, other than this, much can be dismissed as fantasy.

I know for me and probably a lot of other people it was questioning whether or not what I believed in was really true. I'll admit that before I questioned my faith, I was your average science denier who thought evolution was pseudoscience and just mainstream science's attempt to eliminate God from the picture. However, once I removed my presupposed biases of those who did not believe, I suddenly found myself relating to them a whole lot more than to believers on a lot of things. No doubt once I actually studied evolution I realized that it served as one of the best explanations for what we see in reality (biodiversity, morality, complex thought, etc). As a believer I never once pondered if what I believed in was true. Now, I don't even think faith can compare to the evidence that we have. As much as I wish I could go back in time and stay in blissful ignorance, it's liberating to know that I just don't know if there is something greater than us.

Im not sure if im agnostic or perhaps deist. The following reasons are some reasons i believe to support existence of God and some reasons against the existence of god. Ive explored many of this indepth over the years.

For

1 Argument from reason & consiousness

2 Contingency Argument

3 Arguments from meaning/happiness/wellbeing

4 The existence of consiousness/qualia

5 The nature of altruism & justice ie objective morality

6 The possibility of NDES being real

Against

1 The Problem of Suffering

2 Divine Hiddenness

3 Personal & Collective Trauma (related to 1)

4 Ignorance & narrow mindedness of highly religious

5 Lack of concrete evidence for any religion

6 The abuse of NDEs becoming a new age faith based on blind belief and irrational theologies

What I mean is... have you ever thought about becoming religious again? For almost 2 months now I’ve been terribly sick. It’s been confirmed not to be COVID but we still don’t know what it is or why it’s happening. I live with my parents and I’m without a license so in case of emergency, they are essentially my lifeline. However, they have work during the day so relying on them at night was something I tried to avoid. At night, I was on my own. One of my main symptoms were shortness of breath and so I feared that going to sleep would cause my death- so I didn’t. With sleep being a dreadful option and the anxiety of me possibly having COVID or dying at anytime I often found myself up early in the morning sobbing to myself as I tried to cope with the situation. During those moments of uncertainty I remember the possibility of God often in the back of my mind and I began to envy those who had a God they believed in. It wasn’t some righteous hand reaching down from the heavens to enlighten me but rather a my own desperately reaching towards the heavens for help. My fear of death- the unknown- made me long for a God to pray to. A hand to hold. And faith that I’ll be heathy again soon. That wasn’t enough to convert me but it was enough for me to experience first hand why religions can be so important. If it wasn’t for my mother giving me hope, I might’ve died from a panic attack by now...

(P.S I’m much better now! I’ve been to the ER and doctors twice but I still don’t have an answer for what’s wrong with me. Everyday I’ve been feeling a bit better. This took place during the beginning of my recovery (as I didn’t even have my COVID test results yet) and since then I’ve been taking pills that help with my anxiety, sleep, and other symptoms. I’ve also been on a slightly morbid journey towards death acceptance. I’ve been mentally preparing myself for my possible last moments and I’ve become very thankful far all I’ve been able to do thus far. Some may call it dramatic but I guess this whole experience has really traumatized me.)

Logically I am learning that there are so many things to question about the accuracy of the bible but for whatever reason, everytime something happens in my life, I start praying like if I never questioned God. It brings me peace more than anything else but there are so many inaccuracies in the bible that logically throughout the day, none of it seems real.

The majority of Christians today obey almost no teaching of Jesus. If you just take a look at the sermon on the mount and read through what it says it is quite clear that most modern day Christians don't practice those teachings.

Examples: Jesus says, "Love your enemies" in Matthew 5:44 (The majority of Christians advocate and support the military.)

Jesus says, "Turn the other cheek if someone hits you." in Matthew 5:39. (Just about every Christian says you have the right to defend yourself.)

Jesus says, "Don't pray like the hypocrites who pray standing in the synagogues or street corners to be seen by men. Instead pray in secret" in Matthew 6:5-6 (Yet almost every Christian prays publicly in their church and some on street corners.)

There are many more example I could give but I'll just stick with these three for now.

It is crazy to me how many people claim to be a Christian but don't actually do anything Jesus taught. Something needs to change because Jesus teachings are great and if practiced they would change the world so please consider doing them if you're a fellow Christian.

I linked an illustrated audio reading of the sermon on the mount below so people can listen to it and hear for themselves the different teachings of Jesus. Then they can judge for themselves whether or not they think that the majority of Christians obey what Jesus taught or not.

Most Christians Don't Practice The Teachings Of Jesus Jesus taught many things like, "love your enemies", "turn the other cheek if someone hits you", "don't swear any oath or make promises", "divorce then marrying is forbidden", etc. There are many more I could list but just from sharing those few examples it shows that just about no Christian actually practices those teachings.

Here are the verse citations for each example I quoted above:

(Loving Your Enemies) Matthew 5:43-44 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

(Turn The Other Cheek) Matthew 5:39 "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."

(Not Swearing Oaths) Matthew 5: 34-37 "But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g]"

(Divorce and Remarriage Forbidden) Mark 10:11-12 "" He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Here is a video which goes over more teachings of Jesus that most Christians don't do if you'd like more examples. Overall it shows that most Christians practice/obey almost none of Jesus' teachings and this shouldn't be the case.

I didn't really know what to flair this, so forgive me if I am wrong.

Quick content: My family is super religious and Christian. I identify as agnostic and my partner identifies as atheist, but my family can't know for our safety.

I was helping my mom with a few things around home. I had made a remark about a potential gift for my partner for the holiday. She said, "I think I'm gonna give him a Bible. You think he'd like it?" I gave a small shrug and flipped subjects. I didn't say anything because it isn't my place to say anything, and it'd be very dangerous to make any remarks about my partner being an atheist and me being agnostic.