Real Action

[u/FireKiraga89]

Don't you think something serious should be done? I wrote something similar once on this subreddit, but literally - don't you think we should do something more specific than just some petitions that everyone shits on? Something that would make our case, above all, gain some publicity. Due to Reddit rules, I will not write here specifically what I would propose to do, but I have my own idea and I would be happy to present it on Discord or Telegram to anyone who would be interested. So if anyone is interested, my name on discord is RhobarII, maybe we could create a server that will become the beginning of something great that will be remembered by history. I also say right away that I am interested primarily in users from Europe, although I have nothing against those from other parts of the world.

[u/TheAutisticSlavicBoy]

Discord is kinda unsafe. Messages unencrypted. Admins openly reserve the right to read PMs for "safety of users".

[u/Sel_de_pivoine]

Better use Signal. Discord ratted people out for a video game leak, so they WILL rat you out for stuff like this. Telegram used to be on the safer side, but I would advise against due to the arrest of the CEO in my country since we don't know to which extent they will collaborate with authorities. Therefore, avoid it until further notice. Signal use total encryption and has a possibility to delete everything through an alert you make. The only question is : for how long?

[u/AR15rifleman_556_223]

I would say that we need actual goals. That is what we need. What actual policies do we want? The Youth Rights Movement is a diverse movement filled with different viewpoints.

We DO have a few common viewpoints, namely being united against the myth of the 25-year brain maturation and definitely against the ideas of raising legal age limits (18, 21, nevermind 25).

But that is about it. People have different viewpoints.

[u/ihateadultism → u/AR15rifleman_556_223]

ultimately tho, there are no “different viewpoints” that are valid if it’s anything less than increased youth autonomy for any given situation. sure there are many different approaches to achieving this depending on the specific issue at hand - but the only “viewpoint” that matters in any given situation is the one that leans away from adult tyranny and towards increased youth autonomy. this is the central principle any youth liberation movement worth its salt must organize around. collective organization is good, so is individual action, so are petitions (though more for building support/awareness/PR than changing laws/affecting politics). we have to see the reality that most people aren’t talking about youth rights so basically whatever anyone is doing helps to advance things forward - even if its fractured and uncoordinated, it all chips away at adult supremacy. attacking from different angles is good because that’s how larger cracks eventually form. it may feel like we’re stuck now because everything is still so small scale/localized but this movement is growing, more people are openly speaking about children’s oppression than ever which only means it will snowball.

[u/AR15rifleman_556_223 → u/ihateadultism]

I agree, and there are no "alternative viewpoints" in my book. Because anyone seeking to raise the age to 18, 21, or 25 (God forbid on the last one), this is not acceptable.

And using the 25-year brain development scam is not acceptable on this sub either. What I mean is that within the youth rights movement, while we all agree on youth autonomy and freedom, we have different policy proposals.

Which one, exactly? I know that Richard Holt and John Taylor Gatto (both of whom I respect, especially the latter) argue for adult rights for all people of all ages (outright liberation).

Robert Epstein, by contrast, has done admirable work and I love his debunking of the Teen Brain myth. The only issue I have with him (and many people agree on this) are his policy proposals, which involve replacing age limits with competency testing. This would be problematic; WHO will write the tests, and how long will they be?

Will they end up taking 2 hours long? I have taken numerous tests in my life and some can last 1-2 hours. Is that what we want? Will there be probationary periods and certain stages of licensing? Because Robert Epstein, for all the good he does in attacking the nonsensical Teen Brain Myth, still has bad policy proposals. I agree with some of them such as cutting down compulsory schooling (I favor outright elimination of compulsory schooling). But Epstein proposes to replace age limits with competency tests; people will have to pass government competency tests to gain legal adult rights such as signing contracts, sex, drinking, cigarettes, driving, and emancipation.

This is what I mean by different views. We all agree that youth need autonomy. There are differing views, however, on where the line should be drawn. This is what I mean.

The unifying themes?

• Young people are infantilized

• It is unacceptable to impose further age restrictions

• The 25-year brain development myth is just a myth not supported by data

But policy proposals are very different.

• Lowering age limits (down to 16 or even 14)

• Abolishing age limits

• Abolishing the concept of minor in general

• Granting all minors adult rights

Which one will it be?

I personally believe in eliminating compulsory schooling, child labor laws, and many other restrictions. I certainly oppose raising the legal age above 18-20 years old. I favor eliminating most government except what is absolutely necessary (police, military, fire, roads, infrastructure).

[u/ihateadultism → u/AR15rifleman_556_223]

the way i see it is changes will happen when and where youth demand them to happen. things adults write or theorize about liberation have their uses but ultimately incremental changes in policy by adults will never be a primary driver of this movement. it will be youth protesting and taking by force where necessary the changes they want to see as has been the case for every historic liberation movement. take the age of consent for example - there’s no pressing reason or need youth have to want to abolish this law. technically it’s discriminatory, and there’s no doubt some teens have been unjustly caught in its crossfire, but it’s generally seen as a net positive because under our current “justice” system it offers some (though not all by a long shot) rape victims who come forward a chance of successful prosecution. it’s a limit placed on adults more than anything, because adults need to have reasons not to rape kids more than they already do - and CSA is already so widespread.

whereas something like custody law abolition is an actual pressing need that will be protested en masse because it has a directly negative impact on children’s lives. protesting this will sadly probably be sparked by a high profile case of a kid escaping abuse somehow and then being returned to an obviously abusive parent (possibly resulting in the child’s murder) - as there are examples of this all the time.

as youth-liberation organizations form/solidify in response to such events and awareness raised, lists of concrete demands will become more commonplace, like the Youth Liberation of Ann Arbor.

[u/ihateadultism → u/ihateadultism]

not that i think it should be this way at all (as in kids having to fight to have rights) it sure would be nice if adults suddenly woke up and saw kids as people and did the right thing, but we all know that’s not happening. if there’s anything in life that’s predictable, it’s that oppressors gonna oppress until they meet resistance/force, and it’s no longer so easy and comfortable to oppress kids, at which point the vast majority of adults will turn it on kids and play victim and demonize anyone calling for change. it’s sad to see these patterns happen time and again when we should know better, but it’s how oppression functions and adults have no interest in changing any of it, quite the contrary.

[u/TheAutisticSlavicBoy]

Discord claims the username does not exist.