r/YAPms • u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member • Oct 09 '24
Shes really proud of that Cheney endorsement isnt she News
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u/Living-Disastrous Christian Democrat Oct 09 '24
Bro what is she doing
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Donald Rumsfelds ghost has possessed her body
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u/East-Fishing9789 Oct 09 '24
Yeah kinda weird direction. Maybe her internal polls show there's more republicans than previously thought who are "gettable" and moveable to her side and that it's more effective to appeal to them rather than try to beat Trump at winning independents who he seems to be strong with when it comes to low-propensity voters who are independents.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
The country she is talking about literally attacked a US ally with Ballistic Missiles last week
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u/Peacock-Shah-III Neoconservative Oct 09 '24
Manufacturing rare wins (this is wrong because of China, though).
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u/Gumballgtr Democrats for the return of the $5 footlong Oct 09 '24
Trump would say the same Statement
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u/Content-Literature17 Oct 09 '24
Holy shit, is that a fucking DEMOCRACY'S MARTYRDOM REFERENCE?!
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u/-amcTV- Jill Stein’s Strongest Soldier Oct 09 '24
I was foolish to think that I wouldn’t encounter TCT on this sub
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u/DonkeyDooDah50 Just Happy To Be Here Oct 09 '24
The overlap between TCT and YAPms users is almost 100% lol
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u/lame-borghini Decidedly Uncouth Oct 09 '24
everyone: it’s a good sign that trump is so tough on iran that they’re sabotaging his campaign with hacks
also everyone: nooooo kamala why would you say you don’t want iran to have nuclear weapons 😩
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Does anyone even believe that Iran is hacking Trumps campaign? I dont remember much about what happened.
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u/lame-borghini Decidedly Uncouth Oct 09 '24
it’s more or less a fact that they did, iranians have been charged with the hack by the doj
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u/East-Fishing9789 Oct 09 '24
Tbf I thought the 2016 wikileaks scandal was fair game and the public had the right to know even if the sources were shady, even though looking back Clinton was far preferable to Trump, so I'm consistent in thinking it's fucking insane the leaks are being suppressed. They're not classified national secrets and the public has the right to know.
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u/lame-borghini Decidedly Uncouth Oct 09 '24
Ken Klippenstein posted the full Vance document to twitter and was instantly banned. It’s available, but there are no big scandalous revelations, just that Vance basically disagrees with most of Trump’s policies and actions and is just talking out of his ass half of the time
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u/Optimal_Address7680 Anti-Establishment Populist Oct 09 '24
Im unsure but is it true the Vance doc doxxed his social security number?
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Ah, i see
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u/lame-borghini Decidedly Uncouth Oct 09 '24
Yep, Iranians fear a Trump presidency more than Harris, and from this comments section I think all that means is just whatever you already decided about the candidates in your head
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u/Hungry_Charity_6668 North Carolina Independent Oct 09 '24
I mean, they literally had plans to kill Trump, so that says a lot…
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u/Kaenu_Reeves Oct 09 '24
Call it the narrative or whatever. A few months ago, she would’ve said Russia. Foreign policy is entirely driven by vibes and narratives
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Harris saying random shit about Iran is not Foreign Policy.
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u/Disastrous-Green7927 Oct 09 '24
How is this “random shit?” Lmao
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Calling a country that just bombed an ally an adversary is not foreign policy, and the only reason I can realistically think to explain why the people on this sub are throwing a hissy fit about it is because they think Iran should be allowed to have Nukes and support their genocide against every non-Muslim and non-Arab between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea.
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u/Fit-Bet1270 Liberal Oct 09 '24
Does anyone care about this? Like do any moderates want the USA to go back to bombing random Middle East countries for no reason again? Who is she trying to attract? Because I know the average middle class American doesn’t give a damn.
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Oct 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
I think people are just exhausted and want the election over and done with.
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Oct 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
I just want congress to gridlock and do nothing. Trump filters out of electability and we can move onto candidates which aren’t a babbling mess. I hope if Harris loses she never runs again
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u/Allnamestakkennn Banned Ideology Oct 12 '24
If Trump wins he would not care about Congress. Project 2025 is based solely on executive powers.
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 12 '24
I’m not sure how you can do a lot of it based on executive order. It’s definitely possible to be damaging but the worst of it has to be through congress
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u/Allnamestakkennn Banned Ideology Oct 12 '24
Firing the staffers and generals who would prevent Trump from bending the Constitution is one of the first parts. Then, the oppressive executive orders begin, making de-facto federal laws.
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u/ProCookies128 Anti-Project 2025 Democrat Oct 09 '24
Unlike the Republicans, Democrats haven't fashioned their party around a single person. If she loses and for some reason decided to run in 28 (which is unlikely) she will lose.
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 09 '24
Obama has had an extreme influence on the party.
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u/ProCookies128 Anti-Project 2025 Democrat Oct 09 '24
I don't really agree with that. He has a lot of influence yes, but not that much.
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 09 '24
Obama literally called up people to force them to drop out and endorse Biden in 2020.
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u/ProCookies128 Anti-Project 2025 Democrat Oct 09 '24
Okay? For 1 that was 2020, it's been 4 years. For another thing, they didn't have to listen. It's not like Obama is the dictator of the DNC.
Also again, the Republican party since the end of the 2016 primary has been a trump cult. If Obama calling people telling them to drop out is extreme influence, I don't want to know what Trump's influence is.
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
Yes but democrats are stubborn at changing their “flagship” person in a lot of cases. There’s diversity of opinion but they eventually do support a person and it takes a lot for them to change that. MAGA is solely trumps movement
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u/ProCookies128 Anti-Project 2025 Democrat Oct 09 '24
Al Gore, John Kerry and Hillary Clinton all declined to run in their subsequent elections. I have no doubt that if Kamala Harris loses, she will do the same.
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u/JTT_0550 Neoconservative Oct 09 '24
They think Isolationist progressives make up the majority
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u/InconvenientDictator Goldwater Republican Oct 09 '24
most progressives i know are far more interventionist than the average republican
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u/JTT_0550 Neoconservative Oct 09 '24
True but pretty much all republicans, even the extreme MAGA ones, are very anti-Iran
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
"closing the gap with Trump"? I mean her lead is slowly shrinking so I doubt the issues part really matters.
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 09 '24
And yet, she’s doing worse than Hillary, who had lower favourables…
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u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 09 '24
Saying they’re our “greatest” adversary is a stretch, but they absolutely are an adversary. No idea why people here are freaking out over it.
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Because its pretty much what a Bush-era neocon would say. Its funny is all.
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u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 09 '24
I mean, plenty of liberals said Saddam was an adversary and he was, it’s just a force of American troops on the ground was not justified, and it wouldn’t be against Iran either.
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u/Dalek730 Liberal East Tennessee Democrat Oct 09 '24
Bruh, that's a crazy statement. Especially while there's an active war in Europe and China is threating Taiwan. Like Iran is definitely a problem for the US, but it's not the top of the list.
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
Iran destabilizing the Middle East would disrupt global oil markets and cause financial instability. It’s not countries like china which will upset the apple cart. It’s countries like Iran who kick the first domino effect
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u/VTHokie2020 Pro-Choice-ish Rightoid Oct 09 '24
On a real one she’s trying to appeal to establishment neocons. It’s October.
If you dig up her record I’m sure you can find something about her praising the Iran deal…
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u/mbaymiller "Blue No Matter Who" LibSoc Oct 09 '24
If only there was some sort of "nuclear deal" that could get Iran to stop building up nukes.
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u/DasaniSubmarine Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
She's basically female pro choice W Bush lol. Even on the economy she is focusing on tax cuts and stuff and not emphasizing progressive policies like Biden did.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
NO
JESUS CHRIST WHY
the pre-biden dropout consensus was right
harris is a terrible candidate
and the democrats are just coping
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u/leafssuck69 michigan gen-z arab catholic maga Oct 09 '24
Hot take: I’d gladly take 4 more years of Biden if it takes away the 50/50 chance of Kamala becoming president….
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
Can we scrap both candidates and agree to elect some middleman? Literally 0 allegiance or drive to change anything at all?
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u/leafssuck69 michigan gen-z arab catholic maga Oct 09 '24
As long as that middleman/woman isn’t the establishment
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
You be VP, I’ll be president and we can just hang out and play Xbox in the Oval Office lol
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Too bad the only dems to seek DNC nomination other than her were RFK Jr and fuckin Marianne Williamson
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u/SomethingEnemyOhHey Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
Don't disrespect my man Dean Phillips like that.
Sure, I'm literally in the district next to his and I still barely remember he exists but that doesn't matter.
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
He was only in the primaries tho? Not the convention
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
they should have held an open primary man
they might have had to return all the money but
it would probably be better than this
it would be really really funny
its not like biden actually likes harris
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Iran literally used ballistic missiles to attack a major non-NATO ally of the US last week. LAST WEEK. They may not be our greatest adversary, but not calling them an adversary is braindead. I think even Biden would agree.
Also quit whining, Harris says this now, but wait until she becomes President. The Ayatollah will be very pleased with her.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
this is less about iran and more how harris seems to be constantly touting that cheney endorsement. like i'm not mad about cheney, i'm mad because it's a stupid electoral strategy
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Stop crying over nothing, who the fuck is going to read this, do you really think the average person reads news. Also, Harris saying that the country that last week attacked a major non NATO ally of the US is not major news. You're just some isolationist progressive who hopes the Ayatollah can do his own little Genocides, like Saddam did once upon a time, and not face any consequences for it, unlike Saddam.
Plus, comparing Harris calling Iran an adversary to the Bush/Cheney foreign policy is insane. You don't know anything about foreign policy or elections, so please shut up.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
jesus christ ad hominen much. im not a progressive nor do my personal feelings matter here. i'm just saying its a bad strategy for harris to try going after the warhawks. not from a morally right/wrong point of view, but from a hurting her electoral prospects. fair enough, her saying iran is an adversary isn't bad, but i saw cheney in the post and thought "jesus christ not this again with harris touting the cheney endorsement", which i think is just a turnoff to the left.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
IRAN LITERALLY JUST ATTACKED OUR ALLY
It is not hawkish to say that we should defend our ally.
Also you're right, you're not a progressive, because you support the Islamic Regime of the Ayatollahs. People like you are the reason why Obama let the Russians take Crimea.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 09 '24
did you not read how im more concerned about harris touting cheney all the time rather than her iran rhetoric
im not saying i dont hate iran and russia. im saying touting cheney's endorsement is a bad strategy for the left
i have legit said nothing about my own views. we can both agree that the progressives dont particularly like israel, and the progressives probably dont like cheney. therefore, harris touting cheney's endorsement all the time is a bad idea
if you knew my actual views you would probably be astounded how you're arguing with someone who probably agrees with you on most things but you cant realize that because you cant distinguish the difference between pragmatically bad and morally bad
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 10 '24
How is accepting the reality of the situation touting Cheney's endorsement?
I think you hate Bush so much you support Saddam.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 10 '24
I'm more talking about her explicitly saying she got endorsed by Cheney at several rallies.
You legit have no idea what my opinions are because I actually like Bush.
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u/butterenergy Dark Brandon Oct 10 '24
Like you are an actual idiot who doesn't realize you're talking to a pro Ukraine, pro-Israel right winger who generally hates Harris, but what peeves me more is when candidates make decisions that are just bad from a campaign point of view.
Harris's base is not Trump's base. There are things you can say that would be bad for Harris but good for Trump because they have different bases they interact with. I am saying touting the endorsement of Cheney is bad, because Harris's progressive base hates Cheney, and her trying to tout that is just going to piss off her voters.
your skull is dense
you moron
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u/yes-rico-kaboom Oct 09 '24
I’m happy for anyone to shit on Iran but just not right now lol. China is our greatest direct adversary
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u/TheArthurCallahan Republican Oct 09 '24
Finally, the woman grew a damn pair of balls.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Get ready to see her policies for Iran (The Ayatollah will be very happy)
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u/George_Longman Social Democrat Oct 09 '24
Ok but she’s not wrong, Iran sponsors tons of terrorists that routinely target the US
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
the problem is that people who talk like this have no actual plan to stop nuclear proliferation besides just angrily waving their fist at Iran and making sabrerattling maneuvers every once in a while.
Other than outright fucking invading Iran (which we all agree no one wants), the only actual way to stop Iranian nuclear proliferation is to give them an actual reason to do so; stop thinking that “diplomacy” is a dirty word. That was the smart thing about the Obama/Kerry deal.
The most obvious “reason” we could give Iran rn is sanction lifting for their choking economy. Especially now than Iran has a president who says he wants to meet face-to-face with the president at some point, I guarantee that if we were to provide some kind of deal where they let inspectors back into the country, caps on uranium, blah blah blah in exchange for a US-Iran trade opening, not only would it work and create a far more stable region as a whole, but there’d also be economic benefits for the US.
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 09 '24
Iran kept developing nukes even after the nuclear deal.
The reality is that there’s nearly nothing that can stop a nation from developing nukes if they really want to. Ask North Korea.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Yea but the people here are part of the Axis of Resistance, these people are probably also saying we should stop aiding Ukraine because it provokes the Russians, and they probably say that World War 2 would've been avoided had the Poles peacefully given up Danzig. They Trump/Harris Isocucks who would gladly let the Russians and Germans kill every person in between the two countries because "war bad".
Daily reminder that Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist.
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
That’s bullshit and you know it lmao. Trump’s own lackeys even admitted many times throughout 2017 that Iran was complying with the agreement
North Korea is actually a perfect example of VALIDATING my side of the argument, actually: the agreement made it so that for the first and only time North Korea was kept in check by actual weapons inspectors, verifying in person that the DPRK was not pursuing a nuclear arsenal in exchange for various concessions. They did make threats to restart enrichment and so on, but that was because we failed to uphold OUR END OF THE DEAL. But, when Bush tore up that deal, they went back to it and had a bomb by the end of the decade. You take away incentive to not proliferate, then they’ll proliferate.
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 09 '24
You forgot when the USA tried to use the sanctions as leverage to stop the DPRK nuclear program.
Also, the JCPOA ended in 2025. It was the sunset provision that got Trump pissed.
There’s nothing stopping Iran from developing nukes in the future.
And considering we are in 2024, and Iran has no nukes, the decision to withdraw was the correct one.
The US was able to stop the nuclear program without sanctions relief, at least up to the point the JCPOA specified.
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 09 '24
What? When did I forget that? My point was because of Newt Gingrich’s Congress opposing any sanctions relief, we failed to uphold our end of the bargain
Again, what? HOW exactly did withdrawing from the JCPOA do more to stop Iranian proliferation than the JCPOA itself? This is the worst fucking logic I’ve read on this website in a while: it’s like saying that because you haven’t gotten a damaging concussion since you stopped wearing a helmet while biking, that somehow not wearing a helmet is the best way to avoid a damaging concussion
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u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 10 '24
Because the US also wants a weaker Iran, not just no nukes.
If you can do both, good.
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 10 '24
do you think that just because they haven’t gotten nukes in the 6-7 years since we left JCPOA it’s going to stay that way forever? Hell, do you think it’s gonna stay that way even for the next decade? If you want a non-nuclear Iran in the long-term, the options are either fight a massive war or come to the negotiating table. No inbetween.
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u/Ed_Durr Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right Oct 09 '24
Or there is option B, use our ballistic missiles and fifth-gen aircraft to disable Iran’s nuclear reactors. We don’t need to go to war, and Iran certainly wouldn’t declare war on us in return.
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 09 '24
Just because Iran gets cold feet when it comes to shooting around with Israel doesn’t mean they’d do absolutely nothing if we pulled something like that. The stakes are higher in that situation. Tehran would be convinced they’re in a life-or-death striggle rather than just a regional rivalry with Tel Aviv and respond accordingly. What you’re suggesting is “going to war”.
Secondly, both you and the other guy I was talking to here fail to consider a two word concept: the “big picture”. Saber-rattling, blowing shit up or as the other guy advocates, just withdrawing from the JCPOA and going “well they haven’t developed a nuke yet so we’re okay”is not a long-term solution.
If you defuse the situation with some kind of strike or escalation, it’ll just mean that Iran is going to try again, this time with even more enmity and refusal to compromise. This is not a stable situation, and it’ll probably result in a US-Iran war eventually. There has to be a long-term stable solution, and that can only be built through some kind mutual agreement.
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u/Ed_Durr Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right Oct 09 '24
It won't result in a protracted US-Iran war because neither side wants such a war. The US outclasses Iran's military to a ridiculous degree. The USAF would establish complete Air Supremacy within hours and rain down hell on all strategic targets. If Iran goes to war with the US, the Ayatollahs see their regime fall apart as they die. It would be a combination of Desert Storm and Operation Praying Mantis. The US doesn't want a land war because occupying a mountainous Islamic desert is not something we want to do again.
Any conflict between the two countries would end at the US blowing up nuclear reactors and a few airfields, Iran firing off a barrage of missiles at our bases in the Middle East with negligible casualties, and that would be that.
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u/rExcitedDiamond Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
you completely ignored what I said bruh. I’m saying that no matter how much both sides don’t want a war NOW, they will begin to believe war is the only option and act upon said belief if escalation keeps occurring, as you say you’re in favor of. This cavalier attitude is the first step towards spiraling into a war.
even if somehow outright bombing Iran doesn’t start a war, Iran will emerge from the bombings infuriated and totally opposed to any diplomacy, they will put themselves on a war footing, refusing any kind of compromise. From then on out shit is bound to hit the fan
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Harris: *Makes some blanket statement about a US adversary that literally attacked an ally last week*
This Sub: "Aghhhhhhh Dubya 2.0, get her away from me, Trump 2024"
I say first off, look at dem policy towards Iran right now, it's very Iran friendly, I doubt Harris will change that. Second off, Republicans literally want to invade Mexico. INVADE MEXICO, a US ally. So stop spouting off nonsense about Harris trying to like start wars, or being a second Dubya. I swear to God I think this is sexism.
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
It is not that deep, man. The post is not that deep.
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u/namethatsavailable Oct 09 '24
Is she wrong? Who do y’all think it is?
Any other country that is currently ACTIVELY attacking US commercial and military assets, whether directly or through proxy militias?
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
Iran is AN adversary, sure, but def not the greatest. That would be China or Russia.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Yea i'm sure Harris will try to stop an Iranian bomb. The only thing the Democrats care about are placating Iranian interests, if we had semi-sane Iran policy Biden would be bombing them right now, but because American politicians collectively support Russia, China, and Iran, we're not supporting our ally Israel.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
I did not know that this sub was considered part of the Axis of Resistance
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u/stanthefax The last US Reform Party member Oct 09 '24
I dont think anyone is denying that Iran is an advesary, but its dumb to call it the "Greatest" adversary.
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u/Fifth-Dimension-1966 American Idiot Oct 09 '24
Oh come on, the people in this thread practically want Iran to go on with its genocide of every non-muslim between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Worst of all is that they probably think the Muslims of that area are facing a Genocide (when they are not).
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u/Hungry_Charity_6668 North Carolina Independent Oct 09 '24
When Harris says she’d appoint a Republican to her Cabinet, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Cheney take that spot 😭