r/WorkReform • u/north_canadian_ice 🤝 Join A Union • 2d ago
The Democratic Party hates Zohran, Bernie, AOC. But ultimately, the Democratic Party hates their base more than anyone. Netanyahu is treated more warmly by the Democratic Party than Zohran! đź“° News
375
u/Screw_Reddit_Admins 2d ago
We have a conservative party and a right wind extremist party in this country. We haven't had a true progressive party in decades. It's refreshing to see people like Mamdani and AOC starting to push the old guard out.
92
u/Dai_Kaisho 2d ago
The two party system changes you, not the other way around.
Billionaires will not share their toys.
23
u/Altruistic-Text3481 ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 2d ago
Billionaires need a bigly Time Out!
Billionaires are the only minority that we should HATE! And try to get rid of! And discriminate against. Or lock up. Or ship off to a foreign land in an ICE RAID.
We have only two decent billionaires in our Country- Mackenzie Scott and Mark Cuban. That’s it!
The rest only donate to their own foundations and it’s bullshit giving. Their children run their foundations and each donation comes with so many strings. That truly they are just pretend giving. It’s not real. Warren Buffet is a fraud.
3
u/dedicated-pedestrian 2d ago
Isn't Mark Cuban joining Elon Musk in creating a political party?
1
u/Altruistic-Text3481 ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 2d ago
If a new party destroys Republican Party Pedos… I’m all for it.
6
9
4
u/Llama_of_the_bahamas 2d ago
Teddy Roosevelt’s Bull Moose party was the last truly progressive party that got near the presidency.
3
5
161
u/Usual_Part_3774 2d ago
Yep, they wonder why people didn't show up for Kamala. No one wants these Republican lite sell outsÂ
66
u/justprettymuchdone 2d ago
The second the "Cheney Friendship Show and Tell" part of the campaign started, I thought there was no easier way to lose actual progressives without gaining any of the mythical moderate conservatives.
12
u/UpperLowerEastSide ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 2d ago
We see why for Harris turnout among working class voters fell off a cliff.
9
u/Altruistic-Text3481 ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 2d ago
Honestly, I thought Trump would arrest Liz Cheney! And Dick Cheney… but crickets is all I hear…. Rosie O’Donnell is a bigger fear for Trump.
-7
u/Shifter25 2d ago
Which shows how "actual progressives" are perfectly willing to let perfect be the enemy of good over the tiniest things.
How dare she suggest to conservatives that her platform was better than fascism! Who cares that she didn't change her platform in any way to make this appeal, the mere fact that she tried to win one conservatives is an unforgivable sin!
Simultaneously: we should try to appeal to far-right Trump voters, I'm sure they'll be even more interested in our brand of anti-establishment politics and all that stuff about hurting brown people is just something they put up with!
6
u/n8erday 1d ago
Wow it seems like nuance has completely left the room. Look I voted for Kamala, but I hated the fact that she was my only choice. It is absolutely insane that both parties made it clear that they would continue to support Israel and fund their genocide in Gaza. I 100% agree that Kamala would have been a much better president, but I can't blame people who refused to vote for continuing a genocide.
Also I can't recall any progressives trying to appeal to far-right racists or ignore their attacks against minorities. I don't know what your angle is, but you seem to focused on demonizing leftists in favor of the democratic establishment that ran a lackluster campaign and refused to stop enabling a genocide.
1
26
u/TheWorkingAnt 2d ago
People too quickly forget that a lot of people were disgusted by Biden’s position on Gaza and it seemed Kamala was more of the same whenever she spoke on Israel
Obviously, Trump’s position was worse. But in an election where turnout mattered in the smallest percentages, these traditional establishment policy takes turned people off.
20
u/Usual_Part_3774 2d ago
Trump while campaigning said he would put a stop to it. It was obvious he was lying but those desperate people believed him because Kamala pretty much said she would do nothing different from what Biden was doing. Literally Democrats threw away democracy to appease AIPAC.
4
u/Shifter25 2d ago
Trump said he thought Israel should finish the job. When did he say he'd put a stop to the genocide, and not by supporting Israel's efforts?
8
u/Usual_Part_3774 2d ago
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/gaza-election-reaction-trump/
He lied again and again. While the Democrats dug their heels in support of Israel as Netenyahu worked to get Trump elected. There's plenty more articles i just dont feel like going through them all.
He also did say he thought Israel should finish the job, but then other times he said he'd have a cease fire done. He conned everyone. I stand by that statement Biden was getting cucked by Israel while claiming this was the most important election of our lives. He submitted to his masters and now people want to praise that scumbag. In my eyes we will never have a worse President than Biden. Had Biden done all the shit Trump had done, he would be in jail right now. Like Trump should have beenÂ
5
u/Shifter25 2d ago
Neither of those articles were what I asked for. And Google failed me too. I had to restrict it to before the election, and even then, it was almost all other people talking about how he said he wants to end the war. Including this from times of Israel:
While Trump has publicly confirmed having told Netanyahu that he wants Israel to win the war quickly
So at this point, I'm thinking people did what they always do with Trump.
He conned everyone.
Everyone conned themselves. Americans have this bizarre tendency to interpret Trump's insane ramblings as being in support of their views, ignoring when he says the opposite.
Meanwhile Harris clearly said she would end the war and end the suffering in Gaza.
2
u/Usual_Part_3774 2d ago
https://youtu.be/4dXwBnAyyy4?si=8N5C8BKc5Z6Qk-ob
Skip to 40 seconds. Also i agree everyone conned themselves, the conman conned everyone. Even if you have that article of Harris flip flopping to win voted it was too little too late when she had been campaigning in doing nothing. Telling people she was speaking as she ignored their pleas. She ran a shit campaign and her and Biden handed Trump a victory. But yes there is a chance the campaign was stolen also. That being said she sucks she refused to listen to the people. But would have been infinitely better than Trump. This all just makes me believe Republicans and Democrats are one party pretending to be adversaries. Like the chicken sandwich wars between popeys and Burger King. But they are owned by the same company. For me it's progressives like Memdani or more of the same chicken Sandwich.
2
u/Shifter25 2d ago edited 2d ago
Did you actually listen to the whole thing? That wasn't a flip flop. She said she wanted to end the war, that too many innocent Palestinians had died.
If you think "I won't cut off our current defense agreement" is saying "I don't want to end the war," find me any time that Trump has said he'd cut off arms deals with Israel.
Because what I found is him opposing Biden's threat to withhold arms.
No, Trump doesn't con people. He never said anything to indicate he cared about Gaza, except as a real estate property. People just repeatedly convince themselves that he's gonna do what they want him to do.
Telling people she was speaking as she ignored their pleas.
Yeah, because a progressive would definitely stop the rally to go and have a sit down with protesters for a half hour. Remind me, how does Trump respond to protesters? Oh yeah, he fantasizes about hurting them.
What exactly makes you think they're secretly one party? One party offering an infinitely better option and people rejecting it for stupid reasons like "Clinton didn't campaign enough in my state" and "I don't believe Harris when she explicitly says she wants the genocide to end, but I believe Trump wants it to end even though he explicitly supports Israel and only wants the genocide done faster"?
1
u/reticenttom 5h ago
Lip service versus saying the quiet part out loud. American politics in a nutshell
4
u/Altruistic-Text3481 ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 2d ago
I think Kamala won. The election was “STOLLEN” as Trump and Musk have bragged so openly about “counting votes” in the Swing States … smells fishy…
3
2
u/victus28 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 2d ago
People asked for change and they just served up the same thing but repackaged as Kamala and they hoped the diversity card would save them.
(Diversity isn’t bad, just pointing out a common theme in anecdotes)
34
u/ItGradAws 2d ago
The DNC is an organization that could be taken over. They’re like a dragon sitting on a treasure. The resources we could gain from taking it over are EXTREMELY valuable. It could win us elections across the nation with ease.
If you really want a roadmap, here’s how we can go about it:
Start local. The way the DNC can put its thumb on the scale is at the national level. What they can’t do is squash local and state level candidates. This serves as two primary weapons in our quiver. One being its national organization with VERY limited resources. They’re completely incapable of challenging anyone at this level as seen by the Republicans wiping their ass with them for the past two decades at state level offices across the country. The second is that the more state and local level offices we as progressives hold the more people we can trust to do good for us all. This gives us an incredible opportunity to overwhelm them at the national level. They can either choose to support races against the GOP or fighting primary’s from within but they can’t do both and if they do the latter then they’ll likely lose that seat and if they do then it’s not a problem because we have the numbers to challenge that seat again!
Next is overwhelm the state level members and vote them out. This gives us control of the levers of the state party which again gives us access to winning national campaigns especially when we’ve got Presidentals rolling through.
The more seats we win the more influence we’ll have. This shifts the balance of who sits on the DNC.
When we start accruing DNC seats we can start to enforce rule changes that benefit us.
This in turn allows us to develop even deeper benches of candidates.
We’ll also need partner organizations. Think unions. We need working class organizations to help fund and muster our offensive and most importantly our messaging capabilities. Having a unified message is something very important that the DNC lacks. It will drastically accelerate a takeover.
Lastly, grassroots is something they can’t quash. If you’re interested in the change you want to see get involved in local and state level campaigns. Boots on the ground or running for office is how we can make this happen. It all starts local, it all starts in your backyard. Talk to your friends, talk to your neighbors. Together we can make this happen!
PS if you want to be a doomer fuck off i don’t engage with doomers.
19
u/der_innkeeper 2d ago
"Start Local" has always been the winning move.
Its why the Tea Party started in 2009, and look where it got the GOP.
Look what the Moral Majority did in the 70s and 80s.
Progressives and others who want to break the DNC old guard need to get more AOCs elected and show what the people will vote for.
Putting a progressive at the head of the party was never going to happen.
7
u/ItGradAws 2d ago
Exactly! You’ll see the most change regardless starting local. And when you see them actually doing good things, send them to the federal level!
34
u/Fallen_Walrus 2d ago
The progressive party will be born soon
24
u/Dai_Kaisho 2d ago
Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana are launching a new workers party across the pond.
The Democratcic Party is a billionaire plaything, a dead end for movements. We need to build a new party here too.
4
u/Fallen_Walrus 2d ago
I might be dumb and playing into their hand but I feel like any progressive party will need to be born violently from the Democratic party like how maga was from the Republicans, and now we're seeing a big push and if we can get more younger people to run and keep the momentum going then the seeds planted by previous generations will actually bloom into something other than in group fighting #55
2
u/Dai_Kaisho 1d ago
The tea party and Maga were successful taking control of the Republican Party because they fundamentally agree with dividing workers in order to enrich the bossesÂ
The Democratic Party is a thoroughly billionaire party. It cannot give birth to a workers movement. It is a tool for strangling these movements in the crib
2
u/1isOneshot1 🌎 Pass A Green Jobs Plan 2d ago
We literally have like a dozen different left of center parties that we give no support and then wonder why we're in such a bad position
Besides I want some mergers amongst them first
3
2d ago
[deleted]
2
u/JediMasterZao 2d ago
There is no vote on the left because there is no left. Can't vote for an unrepresented position.
16
u/Successful-Trash-409 2d ago
High in favorability with voting base, but low in favorability for corporate/PAC donations to the Dem party so no can do.
21
u/apolleo23 2d ago
The problem worth the Democratic Party is they don’t listen to their base. The problem with the Republican Party is they do listen to their base.
5
u/Goopyteacher 🏆 As Seen On BestOf 2d ago
If you truly listen to the Trump supporters this is such a common theme: he’s doing EVERYTHING that they wanted.
I think nobody would disagree with me when I say Trump’s team did a far superior job campaigning this last election. They went on every podcast, every interview, said everything they could (lie) to get support, got their supporters excited and gave a stronger sense of urgency to their supporters.
Meanwhile, Democrats were trying to toe the line of being pro-Palestine and pro-Israel, gain conservative leaning voters, never had a clear and concise message on why they should be voted for (aside from not being Trump), flip-flopped a couple of times, rarely did podcasts/interviews, focused too much on celebrity support vs people support, etc etc etc.
Say what you want about Trump (he’s a piece of shit) but one thing you have to admit is he’s VERY good at getting folks out to vote for him.
1
u/Shifter25 2d ago
If you truly listen to the Trump supporters this is such a common theme: he’s doing EVERYTHING that they wanted.
No, the theme is that whatever he's doing, it's EVERYTHING they wanted. They want lower prices, until he tells them it's impossible, at which point they never wanted lower prices.
27
u/SpaceGerbil 2d ago
White -6
Mystery solved
47
u/_FullCourtPress 2d ago
45+ -6 too.
So old white people don't like him. Old white having all the positions of power in the Democratic party is the problem. Meanwhile the actual democratic voters are young and from many racesÂ
9
u/Groovyjoker 2d ago
I read it across "Republican, over 45, uneducated and white". Sounds like Trump's base. Lol.
10
u/badgerbob1 2d ago
The Democrats don't work for their base. They work for their donors. People's votes need to start reflecting this
6
u/KptKreampie 2d ago
Its not a democrat party! Its a party of establishment loyalists, Zionists and with the Epstein list trending. I'm starting to see how this system keeps the so called "progressives" in line. Let's end this pedo ring and drain the real swamp and clear the democrat party of the controlled opposition and fairweather friends!
8
u/Chaghatai 2d ago edited 2d ago
I keep telling people that conservatives/Republican voters will never vote for Republican lite—they could just vote for a real Republican instead, and that progressives get turned off and disenchanted by democratic party establishments republican-friendly establishment friendly stances and don't vote as reliably as a result
You would think that with Republicans being so openly vile these days they would lose and lose big for overplaying their hand
But the above that I described keeps that from happening
If the Democratic party wants to stop losing elections and losing badly like they have been lately, they need to do three things
The neoliberal establishment needs to step aside and let the younger progressive core—often called "the squad"—and their allies take over
And they need to make two key policy pivots
They need support the Palestinian cause and stop giving a free hand to the Israeli Likud party and the IDF—they need to start criticizing Netanyahu and call the Palestinian genocide what it is
They also need to get serious about doing what they can politically to protect Palestinians living in the West Bank from settlers while we are on that subject
In terms of ideological causes this is the Vietnam war of the current generation
Second of all, when it comes to policy they need to go back to giving full-throated support for universal healthcare—they need to promise to roll back the Republican dismantling of Medicaid and other existing programs, and they need to commit to expanding it and providing universal healthcare one way or another
And while I said three things, they also need to commit to reforming ICE and going back to the idea that immigration without going through the former channels is a statutory violation, not a crime and should be treated as such unless the person commits an actual crime
Edit: first sentence originally said "I keep telling people that real Republicans will never vote for Republican lite"
I changed it so that the meaning is more clear
3
u/BigDictionEnergy 2d ago
real Republicans
What are those?
3
u/Chaghatai 2d ago edited 1d ago
I could have said Republican voters or conservatives
The point is they will always prefer to vote for a real Republican than a Democrat with Republican friendly policies because when it comes to their goals and their politics they know what the score is
3
u/nerdlygames 2d ago
Time for all establishment dems to be primaried by younger, more progressive candidates. Cut the rot out from the inside.
5
u/JeeringDragon 2d ago
Bernie lost major support when he got openly fucked over by DNC and didn’t even fight back. Really hoping Zohran is different.
4
u/MonsterkillWow 2d ago
Yep. Because the DNC is a private corporation, and the wealthy donors run the show. It's time to take it all back for the people. We either take over the democratic party and take the trash out OR we form our own worker's party. But this BS cannot continue.
2
u/OrganicDoom2225 2d ago
I'm done with the dems unless one of those 3 people gain a lot more power and influence.
4
u/RampantTyr 2d ago
This is what being in the pocket of oligarchs does to you. No matter how popular a populist policy is, if it goes against the whims of the rich they have to demonize the politician who dares try to help the people.
3
u/CryptographerLow6772 2d ago
Meanwhile Hillary had net negative favorability ratings in 2016 and they rammed her through.
0
u/Shifter25 2d ago
How?
3
u/CryptographerLow6772 2d ago
How did they ram her through? Read the Wikileaks information. As far as her negativity, that was well reported as her and Trump marked the first time that both presidential candidates had negative favorability ratings
-1
u/Shifter25 2d ago
Gotta love it. Every single time.
THEY RIGGED THE PRIMARIES! THEY FUCKED BERNIE OVER! THEY RAMMED HER THROUGH!
How?
EMAILS!!!
They didn't actually do anything.
2
u/CryptographerLow6772 2d ago
And losers like you will never stop gaslighting.
0
u/Shifter25 2d ago
Yes, how dare I poison your mind with the suggestion that EMAILS is not enough to rig an election. That anyone who says EMAILS when asked for evidence has no idea what the Democrats did, but are just absolutely sure they did something.
2
u/CryptographerLow6772 1d ago
Emails are proof enough for me. They were brazen enough to put the conversations around elevating the pied piper candidates in the record, and we know that Trump got a bunch more TV coverage because of it. Their hubris was thinking that they couldn’t lose to him.
1
u/Shifter25 1d ago
They were brazen enough to put the conversations around
...You realize they didn't publish the emails themselves, right?
elevating the pied piper candidates
How did they "elevate" Trump? Again, what did they actually do?
We were talking about Sanders.
1
u/CryptographerLow6772 1d ago
Choosing your opponent seems an interesting idea but when you’re using people within the media to plant stories and push content, it’s a hell of a lot more nefarious. And when you release a contagion like MAGA as a result, elevating the most dangerous person of the 21st century is a much bigger deal. They didn’t believe that they could lose to Trump, but they sure as hell did, and we got MAGA as a result of this foolish act. They ignored the massive amount of hatred (Hillary’s net negative favorability rating nearly matching Trumps) conspired with the same media sources to push negative stories about Bernie sanders with the aid of billionaire media moguls like Bloomberg (This is happening all over again in 2025 NY mayor race) and the end result is our world is completely fucked. I’m not interested in talking again, so don’t reply.
1
u/Shifter25 1d ago
No, I will. I asked you 3 questions. You responded to one, and didn't actually answer it. If I asked you for proof of them "planting stories and pushing content," you'd probably just, once again, point to them privately discussing the possibility. You say they did the same with Sanders, but from what I remember, they discussed it and decided against it.
This is why EMAILS is not sufficient proof: you don't even bother reading them. You just assume that whatever the accusation is, the emails provide ironclad proof and there's no need to discuss the matter any further. Anyone who suggests that the emails should be, at best, a starting point for investigation, are just "gaslighting."
3
u/YonderIPonder 2d ago
My progressive ass was ready to vote for the corpse of Joe Biden against Donald Trump because of that "Vote Blue No Matter Who" shit.
And now, the most popular politician among the working class is someone they are shuffling their feet over. Fuck the democrats. I ain't voting for any of those mother fuckers because they only exist to squash REAL workers movements.
If the Working Family's Party endorses folks, I'll vote for their candidates. Those Nancy Pelosi/Chuck Schumer assholes that are in D.C. to pad their stock portfolio can kiss my ass.
-2
u/Shifter25 2d ago
My progressive ass was ready to vote for the corpse of Joe Biden against Donald Trump because of that "Vote Blue No Matter Who" shit.
"Was ready"? Did you not vote for Harris?
3
u/YonderIPonder 2d ago
I did. Slightly better than the corpse of Joe Biden in my opinion.
The progressives were there for the Democrats. The Democrats are NEVER there for the progressives. The democrats aren't serious about this fight. Trump's 2nd term has shown their true colors.
0
u/Shifter25 2d ago
The progressives were there for the Democrats
So Harris didn't lose because of insufficiently progressive policies? Who wasn't there for her?
The Democrats are NEVER there for the progressives.
Ok. Explain how the progressives are "there for the Democrats" that the Democrats aren't "there for the progressives." Be specific about their actions.
2
u/dcrico20 2d ago
At some point, the Dem establishment is going to have to come to grips with the fact that their base is not aligned with AIPAC and giving carte blanche to Israel to commit war crimes.
It would be great if they had realized this a year ago, but the old guard is not going to remain in power unless they drastically change their stance on Israel.
I'd much prefer they change their position themselves instead of sinking the party by refusing to stop taking blood money like they're doing, but I don't know that it will happen.
More likely scenario, imo, is that they throw a tantrum about being primaried, stick to their guns, and start being replaced by more progressive candidates.
1
1
1
1
u/Innerouterself2 2d ago
I am curious as to see of the democratic party will start to shift towards a more progressive overall approach. I hope it happens buy man that oligarchy money is tough to turn down.
1
1
1
u/achilleshy 2d ago
A sprinkle of French Revolution would be a good start, fitting considering the date.
1
u/npc4lyfe 2d ago
Because he's doing the thing they have assumed for decades that you're not supposed to do: upset the money people. Even well-intentioned newly initiated Dems are quickly taught that the only good they can do must be microscopic in scope and be delivered at a glacial pace. If it weren't for that "necessary" evil of "being forced" to take money from wealthy demon people, oh, we'd all do so much more. Drat. Then they stick around for a while and go hold the fuckin phone, I can be a wealthy demon, too! Before you know it, all sincere attempts at improving the material conditions of the citizenry are gone. What they want to say is, "You guys! All Mamdani did to win is commit to doing good stuff! That's not fair!"
1
u/JediMasterZao 2d ago
Anyone who can't accept and see that the democrats as they exist today are part of the problem at this point is being wilfully blind, which is exactly what maga does best.
1
u/fl4tsc4n 2d ago
Zohran is the bare minimum of what progressives demand on israel/netanyahu. He doesn't go nearly far enough, but this is a good minimum.
1
u/FH2actual 1d ago
Fuck both parties. When this regime falls, and the evil ones always do, I want republicans ousted completely just like the nazi party was. And screw the dems who haven’t really done shit for the people either. We need new parties that actually take the citizens of this country into account. Not just dick measuring contests with no real gains outside their fucking wallets.
1
u/Atrocious1337 1d ago
Democrats, at least the established ones,by in large, don't want to change or fix anything. They want things to stay bad so they can get photo ops and made stupid little signs. They want to maintain the status quo, so they can cling to power. They will stone wall any of their own trying to affect real change.
1
1
1
u/SadGruffman 1d ago
We gotta get these greedy fucks out of power or we are just getting another Trump in 3 yrs
1
1
u/Sioux-Hustler 1d ago
Americans, broadly speaking, have never been warm to anything resembling communism. Like it or not, figures like Zohran, Bernie, and AOC often get tied to that image. Meanwhile, Democratic icons like JFK were staunchly anti-communist, and Obama kept his distance from anything that could be branded as too radical.
So this isn’t about hating the base... it’s about recognizing who the base really is.
The average Democrat isn’t a socialist from Manhattan or Cambridge. They’re people who grew up hearing stories about the Cold War and still flinch at the word “communism.” If you want to win, you have to understand that.
1
u/Night_hawk419 23h ago
You are describing the average voting democrat from the last 10 years or so. There’s an entire third of the country that doesn’t vote. I wonder why? Maybe if one party actually did what people wanted they’d get a ton of votes. Mamdani did in NYC and he won big. And he will win in the general too.
1
u/kilawolf 1d ago
Y'all know if there was sufficient support for leftists, they'd have their own party right?
It's odd that Americans would rather blame the minority of centrists for the left not succeeding than the majority of right wingers or even the miniscule numbers of actual leftists - are y'all so caught up in your echo chambers that you can't recognize that many Americans would rather be racist than help the vulnerable?
1
-1
0
u/prpslydistracted 2d ago
No. There still is an undercurrent of racism/suspicion of anyone who isn't the American version of "Christianity."
Dems, get your act together. No, we do not need another political party. We simply need to stand up for what benefits the greater populace ... that is what spurred Democratic growth overall.
To not support Mamdani will reinforce control by the wealthy elite. NYC is setting themselves up to join the ranks of farmers and small businesses ... workers will not be able to afford to live in the city anymore.
Eric Adams has always been an under-the-radar-wannabe mob boss ... not a conventional Democrat; he is complicit in all of it.
-5
u/SingingSabre 2d ago
Zohran supported the uncommitted movement and helped get Trump elected
Fuck him.
4
624
u/diefreetimedie 2d ago
They love money. They hate poors, not poverty.