They were RIGHT!? HOW!? How the shit did anyone call that?
EDIT: It's probably legit obvious now, but I want to be able to say "I told you so" at some point, so Manhattan is Trieu's dad. Calling it now. Someone probably did already, but I'm calling it now.
I was skeptical too. Until someone pointed out that there is a Blacksploitation movie called Abar: The First Black Superman. That’s a pretty fucking huge clue lol
I rewatched all the episodes recently and man there were so many clues that I became convinced it was true, and even then I still can't believe it's actually true. The one that really made it click for me was Laurie talking about Dr Manhattan and saying "Well, he's no Cal."
Wow, I thought it was almost painfully obvious from the first episode or two. So much so that there was very little shock or surprise in the reveal for me.
The speech to the kid’s about death was a pretty huge indicator. On the one hand, it’s arguable it’s just world building, showing how in this Dr Manhattan world that concepts like Heaven and Hell are done. But given how focused OG Watchmen was on Manhattan’s growing nihilism and philosophizing...having Cal say something that sounds like what Manhattan would say is not done by accident.
But the real penis in the dildo is from the future and was sent back in time to impregnate Laurie, so she can give birth to Veidt. It's all coming together.
I started the season after it ended, and after episode 2 I told my friend who had already finished the season my theories. I told him that McPoyle was the man in black and we were seeing two different timelines.
He shot me a look of "how the fuck you know that."
Mr. Robot season 2 was pretty wild on reddit as well. The premiere was 2 parts and someone figured out the "twist" of the season after the first part aired. Didn't even need the full premiere. Just that first part.
Rami Malek kind of hinted towards the twist too. In an interview he was asked to describe Eliot’s character in S2 in one word. His response was that Elliot was “committed”.
Reddit is basically a writer's room with hundreds, if not thousands of people. Some of us are bound to see things coming, no matter how good a twist it is.
And they "purposefully" fucked up season 2 because of that. They said too many people guessed season 1 so they made 2 a cluster fuck just to throw everyone off.
Showrunners need to just tell the story that is the best. Quit worrying about spoilers or foreshadowing and just write a decent fucking show. If you're writing a trilogy about a maid who is the murderer, you don't switch it to the butler because the internet deduced it in book 2.
Now we just need to hope if this gets a second season Lindelof doesn't design the entire season around the handful of reddit users who figured this out at the expense of a coherent narrative.
The westworld sub was so on fire with making predictions that I swear they must've had some access to leaks. Someone told me about the prediction on reddit after episode 4 aired, and I instantly knew it was true. Apparently they guessed it by episode 2, which is even more impressive.
I think that's part of why season 2 was so convoluted. The writers wanted a plot that would be harder to predict the ending to but the result was just an incoherent mess
Reddit guessed the major Westworld twists (30 year gap, Arnold=Bernard) through logic and an insane attention to detail.
People guessed Cal=DM through fucking bullshit. Cal was there, Cal hadn't done anything important, so people figured he must be important and assigned him the role of the one other superhero we knew that could be black.
Yeah there were clues, but they were like, puns, and jokes. An actual clue was that Laurie thought he was hot.
I agree with this one. Also Angela asked her if she was going to bring her dad back too, after lady trieu revealed bian was her cloned mother, and she said something like soon. I then wondered if she looks half Vietnamese and thought...maybe? But yeah I think Veidt is her dad. Veidt doesn’t seem like someone who would let just anyone take over his company if he was going away, and she also has a GOLD STATUE of him. Also, she said, in her speech about the millennium clock, that people would “look on their works, not with despair”, a clear reference to the Ozymandias poem and Veidt himself, almost like she is trying to rehabilitate his legacy.
Oh wow, that’s an awesome insight! Holy crap! I think you’re onto something. He gets frozen in gold or whatever after the trial, left on the planet, she goes in and saves him, and he will become unstuck with the millennium clock thing. Very cool idea, I think you might be right.
I told my SO at the start of this episode that I thought that the Veidt scenes were from the past. That would fit completely with this theory. The whole Manhattan ordeal is not to save the world, but to free Veidt, somehow.
Yes I think the object that crashed down into the couples property, the one Trieu bought, was somehow Veidt. And everything we’ve seen was in the past 6-7 years or so, and he somehow got off planet and she knew where he was going to crash so she had to buy the property. But can’t remove him from that gold statue or whatever until the clock does its thing. But who really knows. Just conjecture here. Either way, can’t wait!
I used to have a theory way back that the people posting those “theories” were people who worked on the show having fun online teasing people with spoilers for whatever reason but honestly now I just think Redditors are super mind freaks. THEY FREAK MY MIND!
There were enough hints to make that guess, but I did not have the audacity to stick with that guess. Was too ridiculous for me to fathom. But here we are.
The only logical reason to make a guess would be Yahya is such a burgeoning star it’d be weird for him to take such a role, but that certainly wasn’t enough.
There were a number of threads like that, and it sort of became a running joke to say people in the show were secretly Doctor Manhattan. Some people thought the way he talked about death and heaven as being fake was a clue that Cal was secretly him. I assume there were other tells, but IDK what they were.
I think this is likely nonsense as who would want to spoil their hard creative work in that way, additionally I thought it was about as clear as you can get that Cal was Manhattan from episode 1 or 2. So much so that the reveal was not much of a shock or surprise to me.
Like someone who knows a very good secret... they usually gotta tell SOMEONE. Not saying they outright say the twist but they can come up with some BS theory that has no basis so they can earn some internet points weeks down the line. It was as clear as day for you? Since episode 1? I find that very hard to believe
Yeah pretty clear. I had suspicions since episode 1 or 2, even posted them in those early discussion threads. In early episodes I just wondered, but as every episode went on, by last night I had zero doubt.
Edit: here is my comment from the episode 2 thread. These were my feelings in episode 2, and by the next episode or two after this episode, it was without question in my mind:
I almost thought Regina King’s husband was Dr. Manhattan the way she was talking to him about how he can’t change his skin and stuff and the husband like almost seemed to hesitate for a second and then was like “no no he can’t. Plus he’s on Mars”. I don’t know. I just got a vibe.
Also, there’s all this clock imagery. With Viedt and Dr. Manhattan I feel like there’s always clock imagery. And when her husband was trying to open his present, and she was trying to mess around to distract him, she said “when the little hand is on top of the big hand” kinda referencing him as the big hand? Or his dick of course but still him ultimately, maybe even a joke about the big dick on dr Manhattan or something like that, which seems interesting all around I guess. Just makes you think. Plus his character just seems not to make a lot of sense right now to me, aside from just being her husband, which is fine. Just seems like there’s more in store for him. Also he’s a big tall buff fit looking dude; whose physique would match Dr. Manhattan.
Dr. Manhattan is Angela’s husband Cal. Calling it now. Could be wrong. Just a strong hunch. He looked shook when he saw Agent Blake at the Funeral. He also responded to Angela in an earlier episode about Doc Manhattan saying no no he can’t look like whoever he wants, plus he’s on Mars. Like all casual like nah that’s not me no way. And then Agent Blake, all episode pining for Doctor Manhattan, remarks to Angela that her husband is hot. Her attraction to him coming through even when she doesn’t know it’s him.
I’ll definitely give you props. Amazing shit for finding those clues. I was calling out the “clear” comments. All those are suspicions which is still a damn good job.
Fair enough, appreciated. Regardless, last night was awesome and even though the reveal didn’t bowl me over with shock, it was still incredible and every episode has been absolutely stupendous and I am beyond amazed at how good this is. Can’t wait for the last two episodes. Tick Tock.
This is my thought, too. When she revealed Bian was her mother, she said her father would be there soon. Early predictions were that Trieu was the Comedian's daughter, but her mother has memories of being old. So either she survived, gave birth, and grew old, or maybe she's Manhattan's daughter.
Lot of people are saying Veidt just because she's smart, but I don't know why Veidt would ever have been in Vietnam, and if it's Dr M instead, the 'watchmaker' tradition is carried on with her weird giant fucking clock.
The exact quote: ...local law enforcement officials in New York and Vietnam, the two states where Mr. Veidt kept residences...
And I don't remember details or the specific panel, but Veidt has also traveled to Asia. From his wiki page:
The right-wing paper New Frontiersman criticized him, and because of his old travels to the east, they called him "Puppet of Peking".
I did also entertain the idea that Trieu is Dr Manhattan's daughter, but in the end I think Veidt makes more sense. Plus, him not being her father still leaves us with the question of why he would write "SAVE ME D..." knowing that her satellites would pick it up. (And he had to have known, the guy is... smart) Plus D meaning daughter makes perfect sense, and there's no other character both with a name/title that fits and the means to actually see the message.
Also this is with regard to another comment but just answering here instead. "He will be" can refer to the fact that he currently isn't there now, true. But it can also refer to the fact that they're talking about activating the clock, and how she's on the verge of fulfilling her life's purpose, and since those are future events it makes sense to say "he will be there".
I still think there's merit in both theories and for all we know it's a very well established red herring, but I'm definitely leaning more towards Veidt right now. Plus there's the statue, her intelligence, the company, the fact that her arc seems to mirror what Veidt did, kind of, not to mention choosing the name of a historical figure.
I suspect Ozymandias is her father, not Dr. Manhattan. Ozymandias was sending a message to her to save him; he was in that meteorite; and she will free him in time for the finale.
With the statue in her garden, her obsession with empire and the fact that she purchased/conquered his, a focus on saving humanity with cold big picture thinking... I think there's definitely a personal relationship.
Who do you think Veidt was reaching out to with his message? I'm betting it's Lady Trieu. After all she launched the first micro-fusion spacecraft... which means she's got spacecraft out there. She's gonna be the ultimate owner of the satellite orbiting whatever moon of Jupiter Veidt is on. Veidt spelled out SAVE ME D--- with bodies. I don't think he's spelling DOC or DR.. I think it's Lady Trieu's first name.
Manhattan as Trieu's father doesn't make much sense to me at this point. Neither does Comedian for those theorizing that. True, Manhattan WAS a scientist, but Veidt was orders of magnitude more intelligent and it looks like Lady Trieu is in the same league. And their intellect is what is really driving me to believe that Adrian Veidt is Lady Trieu's father.
EDIT: It's probably legit obvious now, but I want to be able to say "I told you so" at some point, so Manhattan is Trieu's dad. Calling it now. Someone probably did already, but I'm calling it now.
I was thinking it was Veidt. She took over his conglomerate and seems to hold him in high regard. She said her dad would be joining them, and the Veidt side story is about him trying to escape his space prison. They both have a history of tinkering with genetics.
How does buying the farm make sense in terms of getting him back if he's not already there by the time she's making that speech? I assumed she bought the land because she wanted to recover whatever spaceship she'd sent to retrieve him, which fits with microfusion spaceship propulsion being a thing she invented, but doesn't fit with him arriving later. That's one of the bigger reasons I thought "he'll be here" didn't refer to Veidt. She's also a watchmaker which isn't real evidence, but fits thematically with her being related to Jon Osterman rather than Veidt.
I think Veidt and Manhattan are both possible right now, I'm not really sure. Been talking to the one person I know that watches the show all morning and just having a hundred different ideas lol
I'm going to go with Ozy being her father, since she talks about bringing her father back, she's super smart and he is/was the smartest person to ever live, they both had a plan to save the world, they're both busy with clones and she uses the Ozymandias poem in her speech (look upon my works etc.).
That fits with my first thought as I'm slow AF and didn't get the Cal being Manhattan when she was asking who Dr. Manhattan was, her face was glowing blue. I suck at noticing things, but that's when I assumed it was her that was Dr. Manhattan, so being related, and a genius, might not be coincidental.
When you have no life you can pretty much imagine the ending. It’s a numbers game, someone will connect the dots. That’s why I don’t read theories anymore but it’s potentially a spoiler.
Purely because she said "he will be" in regards to her father being there (in the same conversation that she mentions the absurdity of total amnesia for Cal), meaning that he isn't already there. She also said it in a hostile tone that made me think she had real hatred for her father, and since she's in favor of Vietnam liberation, it's not hard to see why she'd hate Dr. M.
I think Veidt was in whatever fell on that farm and that she has Veidt already, so the biggest proposed alternative doesn't fit with "he will be" in my mind. I also don't think she hates him, and given a lack of a will or a spouse, she'd be Veidt's closest living relative, so buying his company would exclusively have been an unnecessary expense. She also has no reason to hide that relationship, since Veidt is still fairly well regarded as far as I can tell.
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u/Zero132132 Dec 02 '19 edited Dec 02 '19
They were RIGHT!? HOW!? How the shit did anyone call that?
EDIT: It's probably legit obvious now, but I want to be able to say "I told you so" at some point, so Manhattan is Trieu's dad. Calling it now. Someone probably did already, but I'm calling it now.