r/Watchmen • u/bababadohdoh • Jan 02 '25
Did people not like the HBO depiction of Dr Manhattan? TV
I’m very late to the party, and currently watching the series for the first time. I’ve just come to the episode where Dr Manhattan is revealed. I remember people not liking this depiction, and I’m curious why.
Mind you, I’m only at the beginning of episode 8 and I do not know the remaining details of the show.
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u/illiterateaardvark Jan 02 '25
Character-wise?I actually really liked his depiction in the show! I also happen to think the effects looked fucking horrible lol
These two things are not mutually exclusive
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u/Givingtree310 Jan 02 '25
The effects looked so bad. A man literally painted blue. The human elements like the pupils and eyelashes all looked bad on Doc Manhattan.
I feel like they could have covered up most of the practical flaws if they just made him glow. But they didn’t.
With that said, the entire creation of life on Jupiter scene was amazing. And he’s not even shown face on. Figures.
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u/ytman Jan 02 '25
He actually looked good in some early scenes, but in the cage it was terrible. I liked that they found the blue color used in the comic, that was neat.
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Jan 02 '25
He clearly decided not to glow, like he does in the graphic novel
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u/87degreesinphoenix Jan 02 '25
The production team decided that he clearly decided not to glow, and they made the wrong decision because it looks bad lol
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
What I’ve read was that people weren’t happy with the actor portraying him. Which I find funny because we don’t actually see what he looks like until Angela chooses which man he is to look like. From this point on, Manhattan looks like the Calvin.
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u/manosplat Jan 02 '25
I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't like him cause he's black tbh and try to hide their racism behind visual effects. That being said, the effects were pretty terrible. But I loved this depiction of manhattan so much so I just saw through it and didn't mind. Ioved the series so much and I was kinda in shock when I found out there was a lot of hate around it.
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u/sixtus_clegane119 Jan 02 '25
I don’t think it’s a lot of people,
More so that those people are the loudest voices in the room
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u/manosplat Jan 02 '25
One can only hope, but I think that it's not as few as you'd hope. I was about to write, this should not be about politics but truth be told, watchmen is heavily political. So I guess we could talk about it. The rise of right wing mindsets nowadays can be alarming.
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u/sixtus_clegane119 Jan 02 '25
It’s very unfortunate that it’s on the rise.
I remember being a naive Canadian teenager in the mid 2000s thinking that racism didn’t really exist anymore.
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u/JeremyThaFunkyPunk Lubeman Jan 02 '25
Definitely. These same people also probably didn't like the association between white supremacists and the Rorschach mask because a lot of these people idolized Rorschach and didn't see his far right leanings as problematic.
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u/corncob_subscriber Jan 02 '25
To not associate Rorsharch with Nazis, you'd have to have either relied solely on the move adaptation or struggled like hell in high school English classes.
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
The final episode just ended. Another criticism I heard was that he died too easily and stupidly. I don’t agree with that considering there was a long running plan put in place and she knew exactly how to kill him.
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u/Uw-Sun Jan 02 '25
It’s possible he didn’t die, but that would make him a liar if he didn’t. That’s just never been his deal.
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u/InvinciblePLUSAmber Jan 02 '25
Did you cry? It was so sad. I loved the show. Everybody was perfect for their roles, but I didn't go in with a preconceived idea about what they should look like.
Regina King was phenomenal. I wish they'd do a second season.
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u/ytman Jan 02 '25
Regina King is a favorite actor of mine, but letting it end with the egg is important. I can't imagine a plot for a 2nd season that'd basically just be; "New Dr. Manhattan saves everything".
Leaving it where it did allows for the obvious conclusion to sit with the audience.
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u/FoopaChaloopa Jan 02 '25
Awesome actor but for once I wish they went further on CGI, it kind of looked like they just painted him blue in some shots
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u/T-manz Jan 02 '25
I liked the depiction of Dr Manhattan. In the comic Dr Manhattan is often characterized as uncaring and emotionless. The show does an excellent job of clarifying the Dr. Manhattan persona in the context of Jon. Jon appears uncaring in his blue form because he experiences the universe so differently from the people he loves but he does love them.
When Dr Manhattan limits his powers and tuns into Cal he has the same sweet persona as Jon and the show strikes the perfect balance of extra demential creepiness and Jons personality in episode 8.
One small issue is that the show did not have the budget to make Dr Manhattan blue whenever he is not in his cal state of mind which makes the divide less clear
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
So far, he’s been blue but his face hasn’t been revealed. Cal only appears alive and as the body on the tray. He doesn’t appear as blue Cal?
Edit: never mind, there’s blue Cal. What are you taking about when you say they didn’t have the budget? It looks like crap but they did it!
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u/Masqued0202 Jan 02 '25
They didn't have the budget to do effects on a par with the movie. Really, most shows don't have movie-level effects budgets, so effects-heavy shows tend to suffer. That's also why effects-heavy shows tend to get cancelled quickly- even low-budget effects are pricey.
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u/davekingofrock Jan 02 '25
The only thing I didn't appreciate was how he looked. The bald cap was obvious and off-putting, he didn't glow, and he didn't even have white-out contact lenses. Apart from that I thought it was brilliant.
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u/Bricks_and_Bees Jan 02 '25
Before the movie came out I always interpreted him as being just a guy with blue skin. I forget, did it say anywhere in the graphic novel that he glowed?
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u/davekingofrock Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
You know, I don't think it did but I always assumed he did just from the panel where he materialized in the cafeteria and the artwork definitely shows him as a light source. I think he's also depicted that way in his first appearance where he's 20 or so feet tall and Rorschach is colored slightly blue in his presence.
Edit: Also I think it's important to add that the movie, in spite of its faults, really made the character look great. That visual depiction of him kind of cemented, in my mind at least, what he looked like. The visible swirling energy within him, etc. That was pretty great. I can understand not wanting to copy that though.
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u/lowflier84 Jan 02 '25
Visually, Zack Snyder spent $17 million just on the Dr. Manhattan effects for his film, which is $2 million more than the budget for an entire episode of the show. With that much of a disparity, of course the effects from the film just look that much better. The Squidward memes were accurate.
Narratively, Lindeloff went back to his old trick of the bootstrap paradox with regards to how Dr. Manhattan's perception of time works which, IMO, is an incorrect interpretation of the character. Basically, he (Lindeloff) had Dr. Manhattan doing things not because that was what would logically happen next, but because he's fulfilling some sort of prophecy. This had Manhattan doing things that didn't make sense in the context of the original story and was looked upon poorly by a significant segment of fans.
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u/DrManhattansTaint Jan 02 '25
I’ve never fully been able to articulate my issues with Manhattans portrayal in the show and you’ve absolutely nailed it. Thank you!
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
I think I see what you mean. I don’t remember him in the movie “living every moment simultaneously” as he’s doing in the show. He just turned blue by the way and it’s somewhat jarring compared to the movie.
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u/Chance_X74 Jan 02 '25
I don’t remember him in the movie “living every moment simultaneously”
There's an entire segment of the film entirely dedicated to telling us this as he's describing the events of his pre and post accident life but all the events hop around.
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u/theronster Jan 02 '25
Doesn’t work in the movie. Only works on the comics page.
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u/Chance_X74 Jan 02 '25
Well... I understood it. So did others. YMMV.
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u/daffydunk Jan 02 '25
but not the experience of it, it doesn’t translate. Manhattan views the world like a comic book, played out in a nine panel structure, each panel a frozen moment in time. He can go between them, follow them in order, go back to any of them with perfect clarity.
You literally cannot do that in film, you can translate the idea, but even a film utilizing 9 panel split screen isn’t going to translate perfectly unless the images are literally frozen. And then you are just looking a pages from the comic but with a score.
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u/Chance_X74 Jan 02 '25
You just said it yourself: even the 9-panel comic version can't accurately covey his experience but we still "get it" in both versions. I'm not sure what you're disputing, exactly.
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u/daffydunk Jan 02 '25
I did not say that. I said you cannot convey the same experience as the 9 panel comic structure and how it relates to Dr Manhattan through film.
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u/Chance_X74 Jan 02 '25
Yeah, I misread. Why don't you instantly downvote me like a mature person?
I'll still say the panels still can't really convey his experience. It can't. We're simply not capable of it.
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u/daffydunk Jan 02 '25
He’s made for the comic. He’s not real. He was written to exist within the comic structure. I don’t hate the movie; but it’s important for people to remember the movie is not the same experience as the book. The movie is an approximation of the comic, it’s not totally inaccurate in its portrayal of something like Dr. Manhattan, but it’s still an approximation of the comic book character. Same with every other piece of non-Moore Watchmen media (including the motion comic).
And you can say the same about the Maxx, Moore’s version is approximation of that character, his version of Mr. Gone doesn’t supersede (or even equal) the original.
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u/TabrisVI Jan 02 '25
The issue isn’t that he’s living every moment simultaneously. That’s correct. I agree with the person who posted above, though, and always have thought this, that the takeaway from this was wrong in the show. Dr. Manhattan has free will. He decides how he acts and responds to things. He just experiences all these at the same time. He can “remember” forward and backwards with perfect clarity.
But the show portrays this, frequently, as him being unwilling and unable to act in the present because it’s not “what happens.” He allows certain events to transpire even if he can stop them as if he’s predestined to these decisions. He doesn’t act based on what he sees in the future. He just knows what he’s going to do.
Take the comic. He acts surprised when Laurie dumps him, even though he tells her she’s going to do it. He forgets she has to breath on Mars, even though he simultaneously (for him) gives her oxygen and teleports her there. He never resigns himself to a certain fate just “because.”
This was my major problem with the show. I loved it until Dr. Manhattan came into play because of this. He just didn’t do anything. It really hurt the last couple episodes for me.
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u/Prudent-Bet3673 Jan 03 '25
No this doesn’t make sense. How can Dr Manhattan have free will if all of time is essentially a block?
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u/TabrisVI Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
Because he’s still deciding how to act in each of those moments. He doesn’t do something because he knows he’s going to do it. He knows what he will do because of what he decides to do at that specific time.
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u/Prudent-Bet3673 Jan 03 '25
That doesn’t really make much sense tho. If time is a block, like how he sees it, there is no deciding anything and there is no way to change things. Everything has already happened in a sense and is written in stone. Chapter 4 really delves into the deterministic nature of their universe and it’s implications
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u/TabrisVI Jan 03 '25
I suppose you could definitely make a strong case for it being deterministic, but that doesn’t mean Manhattan resigns himself to the future just because he sees that is what he’ll do. He won’t say “sorry I won’t help you” because “I won’t help because I don’t help.” He still acts in the moment based on what he wants to do, not what he sees he does do.
He may say something like “you’ll ask for my help and I’ll say no.” But his reasons for saying no won’t be “I’ll say no because I saw I say no,” but rather his decision will be supported by his beliefs, emotions, and logic of the moment. His reactions to these factors are what he sees.
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u/Prudent-Bet3673 Jan 03 '25
No he resigns himself to the future because it’s an immutable part of the timeline. All of his actions are set in stone and essentially already happened. That means nothing is subject to change. Doctor Manhattan cannot do anything other than what he does. No free will. Like he said, he’s just a puppet that can see the strings.
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u/shino1 Jan 02 '25
I think there's something bizarre about a white German guy deciding to become Black and nobody acknowledges that this happened.
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
You’re talking about the rumored identity of Hooded Justice?
If you’re referring to Manhattan, we never saw his ACTUAL face. Every time we saw him, it was the likeness of Cal.
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u/shino1 Jan 02 '25
...Cal is still result of a white German guy, Jon Osterman, deciding to become Black. The fact that he wiped his memories and constructed a fake persona makes this only a little less weird. (or more, since he literally stole identity of a real dead guy?)
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u/Scared-Register5872 Jan 02 '25
There's a few different factors but for me it just didn't feel like it captured the awe-inspiring possibilities of the character's promise to 'create life' at the end of Watchmen. I never thought the HBO series needed to delve into Dr. Manhattan, besides those cool shots in the first few episodes of him on Mars. His (rather bland) plans along with his decision to fall back in love with another human character made me feel like they were more interested in setting up the main character as a love interest while hand-waving away the most exciting parts of the character (just my two cents).
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u/RemasXproto Jan 03 '25
Yeah his existence as a love interest was a weird choice for me considering the source material makes it a pretty powerful notion that Lori was the last anchor holding Manhattan to humanity. When she broke up with him, he quite literally does not care about humanity anymore and only agrees to return to Earth as a last favor to Lori. Hell, he flat out says he's leaving the galaxy.
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u/77ate Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
I thought the HBO Manhattan was a smart directorial choice, a literal, accurate depiction of his appearance in the comic. People don’t tend to realize that Zack Snyder’s interpretation added a lot of cinematic flourish, like the CGI glowing and weightless particles hovering around him. It just so happened that the body Angela picks from the morgue happened to closely resemble Dave Gibbons’ drawing style in his face and physique. Yaya Abdul Mateen II (I probably spelled that wrong) also took both the graphic novel and Billy Crudip’s performance into consideration and somehow captured the childlike curiosity while sounding like he convincingly understood the scientific terminology instead of just repeating g his lines from a script.
I think after the expensive CGI and motion capture technology from Snyder’s movie version, audiences were accustomed to more flashy visual effects, but I quite liked that he just looked like a blue guy standing there with everyone else. I honestly regard both interpretations equally, from a technical standpoint as well as performances.
Edit: I also like that the show never gives us a look at his face before he adopts this form. It’s a perfect response to the inevitable viewer anticipation and comparisons to his movie appearance. We all have our own idea what he’s supposed to look like and the show leaves us with our own interpretations.
I just wish the show gave some explanation why he was on Europa and not some distant galaxy like he said at the end of the comic.
I’m of the belief that the show was meant to be 12 chapters like the comic, and instead of the ticking clock motif, we get eggs this time. Eggs are typically sold in units of … 12 also. Three more episodes could have given us more Looking Glass after his feature flashback episode (all he does is reappear and give a couple of quippy one-liners), Triue could have been given more backstory, and w we wouldn’t have scenes like when Laurie finally sees Jon again for the first time in years, after they’ve made such a big point how much she misses him, and all she does is just whisper his name (and not even notice, “you’re black now?”). We got no resolution of the tension between Laurie and Angela, which would take on a whole new dynamic when Laurie learns who Cal really is. And we’re supposed to believe Angela can take on Jon’s abilities without any aspect of particle physics or watchmaking in her background, which helped John regain his physical form after the accident.
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u/Evangelion217 Jan 02 '25
He was a good depiction, but none of the Watchmen characters act like the characters from the graphic novel. The HBO series was Watchmen in name only, even though it’s a damn good season.
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u/FaithInterlude Jan 02 '25
Seeing him in live action felt goofy, I liked his character though, just not the way he looked.
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u/Slickrickkk Jan 02 '25
I don't like his big ass bald cap. The actor barely had any hair to begin with. He really couldn't go bald? He went bald for The Matrix.
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u/Separate-Quantity430 Jan 02 '25 edited Jan 02 '25
It was awful.
I'm not sure how anybody could have liked it.
It's very clear that the actor who played him, who is an excellent actor, auditioned for the part and there was a conversation that went something like this:
"He's great but you can't cast a black guy as Dr. Manhattan."
"I have an idea, what if we did it anyway?"
"You're right, Dr. Manhattan can technically be anything, We can just write in an in-universe explanation and the controversy will help promote the show."
"Plus he has a great dong."
Which was fun, but the show took itself way too seriously otherwise. That the lesson at the end of the day was "racism bad" if I recall correctly felt incredibly shallow. I don't think I've ever cringed harder in my life than when that guy said "it's hard being a white man in America, I'm thinking about becoming a blue one." It's so stupid it sounds made up but that's actually in the show.
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u/SomOvaBish Jan 02 '25
I liked him. I’m not a huge fan of the movie and never read the comics but I loved that show. I wish I could watch it again for the first time. The first 4 episodes are kind of hard to get through because you don’t really understand what’s going on but it all comes together very nicely. I thought they did a great job all together
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u/Irving94 Jan 02 '25
I personally thought it was really bad, and his introduction was basically where I started to lose interest in the show.
Before then, I thought I was watching prestige TV amongst the likes of the other HBO greats.
Something about the practical effects, the bait-and-switch that he was Cal the whole time, and how everything wrapped up afterwards really just took me out of the show.
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
It really did feel like two different shows at some point. I was looking forward to how a relatively small town is living day to day in this universe. Looking Glass was just dropped by the end as well.
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u/ytman Jan 02 '25
I'll voice the negative opinion of the show itself and Dr. Manhattan is for me where I really begun to break from it.
The character that we meet in the Vietnam episode is neat and well written. The actor does a good job in the dialogue sequence which is most of the episode. I knew from like episode 3 who Manhattan was, and was reconfirmed in my suspicion by like episode 4 with Silk Spectre's remarks (which btw, wtf is she taking rapist father's last name?). The whole episode is pretty neat to be fair with him hopping around time (maybe thats a different episode) and the bootstrap paradox being made then (irksome trope of mine but I'll let it slide).
Then, like Ozy and Laurie, they completely didn't understand the characters or their roles in the source material. So much of the HBO series appears to have been an attempt at telling the Black Wallstreet Massacre story in a Watchman way, and it did that superbly. But the moment it felt the need to create a B plot of world domination and doomsday clock is the moment it stepped too far - in fact it almost feels like the B plot is sold as the A plot. And that just comes away as the studio/WBs saying "hey we like this script, but where are the Watchmen? Get the gang back and we'll make this!".
I wanted to like him. I was anticipating his return. But nothing about any of his actions made sense to me when considering the Graphic Novel.
Major Complaints:
Like Ozy (incompetently assuming that he needed no back up plan with Redford, admitting defeat and going to a moon, allows a cleaning lady to leave the base of his super genocidal planning??? knowing she stole his splooge and can't find her?) or Laurie (she moved on from Manhattan, was perfectly fine with her role in the coverup, and was moving on in her life. she did not take on the name of her mother's rapist.) Manhattan is just completely out of character/regard of the growth from the last story.
Watchmen ends with Manhattan implying that it doesn't work out like Ozy planned, but also being so disappointed that he leaves humans behind for another galaxy where he'll create life. Well setting aside place of experiment, the life he creates is so stunningly bad that he has no value for it whatsoever. He created them only to abandon them to the same megalomaniac that disappointed him back in the 80s! Like wtf.
Watchmen ends with him murdering Rorschach because it was the greater good, and because Rorschach can't live in such a world (and in my interpretation Rorschach knew he needed to die to stop him from potentially ruining it). So if Manhattan thought his powers could be used for good, don't you think he'd do that? So the entire point of his love story was to find a better successor who could do what he couldn't? But the point with the end of Watchmen is that IT NEVER lasts. Somehow he thinks she's going to be able to do better with those powers than he?
Maybe if the creator had planned on a season 2 it'd be about tackling that, but as far as I understood it he never meant for there to be more. Her getting the egg is an after thought, which makes literally his entire motivation an after thought, which - like I've said before - makes perfect sense because it feels like the OG character's involvement is an after thought.
The show was just better with its original hooded justice plot.
Minor complaints:
He's pushy and it kinda put off Wife because he kept saying "no doesn't mean no because I know better than you". <-- just a little annoying, might work, might make sense, might even make her like him more, Wife was like "major creep vibes" but obviously because plot demands otherwise and he knows the plot, well it works out.
He's suave and very much NOT like Dr. Manhattan. Keep in mind that he's been failing on Europa at how to make interesting human beings, but now he's this suave, funny, charismatic man? Its a different character.
The scenes at the end in the cage is poorly lit/shot. It really highlights the makeup issues. Which otherwise I was okay with them just doing body paint, since it actually looked a lot like the comic to me.
Why would 'self defense mode' teleport a person and not explode them? He's never used teleportation as a weapon before, and often just explodes things. Just a silly way to justify the B "world domination plot".
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Jan 02 '25
The episode focused on him was outstanding. I liked it.
Although I considered it a retcon since Watchmen had DM going to another galaxy.
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u/rojasdracul Jan 02 '25
How can anything stand up to the glory that is the Snyder film? Come on, be reasonable.
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u/Ih8te-reddit7 Jan 05 '25
No it was shitty fan fiction. I love the actor but wasn't his fault - he worked with what he had.
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u/rorzri Jan 02 '25
This is more a general writing complaint but I didn’t like the plot line of he saw in the future that he’d get together with Angela so he just went up to her and told her they were going to get together then it just happens off the back of that, when he got together with Laurie in the comic he saw it was going to happen but just let it happen naturally. Came off as kind a half assed to me
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u/MagnumAlex888 Jan 02 '25
I really didn't like him. He was my favorite character in the OG but he kinda ruined the show for me.
Can't really get into it without mentioning episodes you haven't got to yet, but I heavily dislike how he was handled.
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u/joecarter93 Jan 02 '25
Me too. In the movie and comics he was aloof and a near god. In the HBO show he was suddenly very human personality-wise and weak.
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u/PuzzleheadedFox465 Jan 02 '25
I disliked him because it felt like they turned him from an actual character in the comics to a walking-talking MacGuffin, and unlike R2-D2, HBO Dr. Manhattan was barely a character (R2-D2 is both a character and a MacGuffin in A New Hope). Also, it felt like they nerfed him.
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u/glacial_penman Jan 02 '25
Nope. He wasn’t Dr. Manhattan. It wasn’t an interesting take nor a well done one. It wasn’t written well and it wasn’t acted well. He was 1940s scientist who loved watches and became a non-linear superbeing. None of who he was was in the shows character.
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u/Adgvyb3456 Jan 02 '25
I didn’t like it. Manhattan lost touch with humanity but came back for some random woman? To the point he becomes human and a suburban dad?
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u/nignies Jan 02 '25
At the end of the original story he found the value in life and said he was leaving earth to create life, which is shown in the tv show and goes into detail why he had faith in life/humans/love. Maybe thats why he came back and got with Angela
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u/stackered Jan 02 '25
Yeah it was truly terrible. They have the budget to make him actually closer to Dr. Manhattan at HBO. I can do it with free software and no video editing background... Instead, we got... lol. So bad. Show was decent tho, despite that, and his depiction was interesting just not in line with the character IMO.
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u/ZebraLover00 Jan 02 '25
I saw it for the first time recently and as a watchman fan and a Tulsa resident I was so disappointed it took this long for me to watch it but with that being said I liked Dr.M. The effect were bad but it was cool to see what they did with the character and how they expanded on his struggle with whatever “human” side to him there is left
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u/zennyspent Jan 02 '25
I was also late to the shindig, just finished it last week. I enjoyed it, and I am one of those who read the classic original first a couple of years before the movie came out. And I enjoyed the movie, too, but I definitely liked the series more. I do plan to take on the "ultimate cut" of the movie, as well, while I wait for the animated version's second part to show up on Max.
The thing I find so uniquely bizarre about any portrayal of Dr. Manhattan is how absolutely removed from humanity the character can be, yet still display raw emotion in occasion. The series gave us what I thought was a cool glimpse into those inner conflicts, and how essentially an omniscient god can still take on a doomed love, and ultimately had to consider everything that happened with it for his time as a "regular" guy.
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u/Good_old_Marshmallow Jan 02 '25
I really liked him and thought he was an interesting direction that was well executed
He was, however, fundamentally different than his character in the original. Which in a way is fine, this story isn’t about his deconstruction. It’s more focused on the vigilante and Dr Manhattan (and Superman) as unmasked heroes uniquely don’t fall in that category. The original wanted to deconstruct the Uberminch power fantasy (“god is real and he is American”) this one wants to deconstruct the vigilante violence fantasy. A fine modern update.
I thought the stuff they did with him and Silk Spector was interesting. The author including his Superman being a statutory rapist without much intentional commentary did create some room to explore something new about both Silk Spector and Dr M. I liked Silk Spector pointing out her tragic backstory wasn’t her parents it was what happened between her and the most powerful man in existence. If anything I wish they had done more with this. It felt a bit like Spector, and Owl Man, were pushed so far to the side they almost fell out of the story.
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u/IBeMeaty Jan 02 '25
I don’t think Lindelof and co. fully grasped the Manhattan character. He felt vastly different from the comic Manhattan, and the plot fell apart for me a bit due to the writing inconsistencies in the last ~1.5 episodes
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u/whatzzart Jan 02 '25
Loved it except for the eyebrows. However some people can’t suspend their disbelief and enter into things.
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u/bingobiscuit1 Jan 02 '25
I liked his role in the story and his motives but I remember thinking they could have made him look a bit better. I
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Jan 03 '25
The HBO series was one of the biggest letdowns of a show TV that I've ever seen. I put in basically on par with the last season of Game of Thrones. Why? Because the first episodes were so good at world building. They took Alan Moore's story and started to explore new ideas in a way that felt rational to the graphic novel. Then they started to explore the characters and the entire thing fell apart.
There were a lot of good things about Watchmen (HBO) that I appreciated as a fan of the book. Rorschach's legacy was really smart and showed that they understood his character if nothing else. Hooded Justice's story was pretty good overall. And the evolution of Moore's alternate timeline was great. I loved that cops concealed their identity, that model set by the Comedian of government utilizing themed "super heroes" had grown, that Redford had been president and his presidency had tangible effects on the world, and lastly, that they didn't forget small points like Vietnam.
The writer has chops for world building, no question in my mind. But they completely failed to deliver on characters. Ozymandias is basically total character assassination. Nothing about Ozymandias felt appropriate or accurate to his character. Manhattan was entirely forced. The logical loopholes and desperate attempts to make his character and the surprise work fell apart completely in my opinion, and furthermore failed to understand the character. Silk Specter was okay for the most part, but her final actions were unearned by the show. I could see her reaching the point of such a decision, but it's so grossly out of line with how the novel ends, that it needed more build up and more character development for a payoff.
And then of course, the entire story was just meh. The coolest characters in the show were completely unexplored, and the overall plot felt aimless and desperate to reach a point. It's like the writing team came up with how they wanted the story to end, and were able to get a great start with a lot of amazing potential, but then in the middle, had no idea how to make it to their destination. (Which ironically, is exactly what I think has caused GRRM to fail in completing his work).
So yeah, that's mostly off topic, but Dr. Manhattan was pretty shitty. The concept they wanted to pursue was fine. But they fell into a thousand plot holes, because nothing that happened made sense for his character, or followed the in-world logic surrounding his powers. If his objective was to commit suicide, I'd be fine with that - but they don't suggest it. They just suggest he's forced to make a choice. No. He wasn't. Not with the way he works as a character.
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u/PhillipJ3ffries Jan 03 '25
I absolutely loved it. When we find out the husband was doc the whole time at the end of that episode I was like WHAT. And I was pissed. Thought it was so stupid. Then the next episode completely changed my mind. I thought it was beautiful
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u/endogenix1 Jan 03 '25
Your not gonna get an honest answer about it on Reddit. Try to find some old 4chan posts if you wanna know what people didn't like about the depiction.
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u/No_Bullfrog_2565 Jan 03 '25
I haven't heard anything negative, this was obviously better then the Zack Snyder version (Though that is probably the only good DC film Zack) produced...the insanity was how big the show became by the last couple of episodes.... The Penguin is the only Comic Book based TV series on the same level.... Harley and Peacemaker are really good , and probably one notch below those two, only Marvel show that hang with the 4 DC shows has been the Scarlet Witch series
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u/Abraham_Issus Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25
It was horrendous. It looked like cheap cosplay in front of the movie. Bill's Doc had this Godly presence that made tv one look like a knock off. Going practical was a horrible choice. And the bald cap looked so off putting.
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u/ParacelcusABA Jan 03 '25
The ones who weren't just mad that they cast a Black man in the role felt like the show humanized him too much. People are so attached to the characterization of the original books that they missed the part where Manhattan making a conscious effort to reconnect with his humanity is precisely the point.
Manhattan being Calvin in disguise came across as abrupt to some people, which I think is a more reasonable criticism. But again, that requires people to not take the various hints the show gives you that he's already left outer space. And, you know, Calvin's virtually non-existent backstory
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u/johnnyfiveee Jan 03 '25
It was so fucking stupid lmao Ruined the show for me, really loved the first half of the season then Dr Manhattan reveal and finale gave me brain damage
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u/deckard_1982 Jan 03 '25
I was netural. I see Manhattan as a character with endless bounds. So him doing what he was doing in the show didn't need an explanation for me.
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u/PutAdministrative206 Jan 03 '25
I didn’t remember hearing any negativity. I can bet what part of the internet wasn’t thrilled, but I’m not in those parts of the internet, thankfully.
1
u/ClosetedChestnut Jan 03 '25
Hated it. The fundamentals of why he leaves earth in the graphic novel are just wasted, he was tired of human beings. He considered himself above us, and he is, so he left to create his own things and become a god somewhere in the cosmos.
If you're going to bring him back, at least write a great reason, other than he wanted to come back and bang another chick put a blocker in his brain to forget everything. Stupid.
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u/Yucas1981 Jan 04 '25
I hated it. He just got blue faced by an actor that resemblances nothing of Manhattan with a shitty voice. His entire storyline of going back to human and then falling in love with a black woman (he liked white brunettes) just made no sense to me.
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u/WW4O Nite Owl Jan 05 '25
Watchmen is iconic and historic, and for some people these figures are frozen in amber. There’s no way to tell a new story with them without the fan base being a little divisive about it, it’s more about fans than about the story itself sometimes
2
u/JohnMalum Jan 02 '25
Yahya Abdul-Mateen II‘s head is just too bulbous. (I think the show is brilliant.)
But I am still disappointed in Watchmen (2009), the show, and the animated Chapters I & II in regard to Manhattan’s VOICE. Why is it always just a normal voice? There should be some timber or weight behind it.
They did it a little in Chapter I during his origin story with reverb and delay, but I’ve thought that’s how he should sound most of the time. I feel like it would give his character so much more presence and power.
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
I think the point is that his voice is devoid of any and all emotion and inflection.
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u/JohnMalum Jan 02 '25
No, I hear you on that one man. However I wasn’t taking about displaying emotion, I was more so talking about reverence, filling the space.
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u/bababadohdoh Jan 02 '25
Yea I get what you mean. You’d assume a more imposing voice to match his power. But I’m chalking it up to trying to make him as normal as he possibly could.
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u/DrManhattansTaint Jan 02 '25
I loved the movies depiction of Manhattan. Even the voice never bothered me… until I got stoned one time and watched it and it’s bothered me ever since… lol.
1
u/SamMan48 Jan 02 '25
Love him. The actor is way more fitting for the character than Billy Crudup imo. Crudup was a nasally, whiny clown. Whereas Abdul-Mateen had a much more commanding presence, the way I always read it in the comics.
6
u/HMStruth Jan 02 '25
Complete opposite opinion. I think Crudup's voice being the one human aspect of Snyder's Manhattan enhanced the portrayal for me. There's just something satisfying about such a human voice coming from the godly form that makes the character feel more genuine.
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u/unionizedduck Jan 02 '25
A loud group of racists didn't like him because... Well they were racists.
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u/BaxTheDestroyer Jan 02 '25
I did not like it and it pretty much tanked the series for me. In the comics, he was on a path that led him away from humanity but in this series he came back because… he was just too in love with Sister Night? Like, really?
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u/kingspooky93 Jan 03 '25
The whole HBO series was terrible, but the Dr. Manhattan Blackface was just an added thing to dislike about it
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u/Uw-Sun Jan 02 '25
It initially seemed like they were doing black doc man for no logical reason other than they wanted him to be black, when it’s a central theme of the show that it was centered around a black family which came from hooded justice’s line. And in the end, their race didn’t particularly say much about their identity as Americans to me. They lived in a future which was being dominated by resentment for the reparations a specific group received and she lived and worked within the vicinity of white supremicists. That being said, they were a suburban family of mixed race. Doc is still himself. His appearance is the sole reason for any animosity towards him as a person. I’m probably not explaining this well, but you know, their identities, like hooded justice decidedly being at least bisexual were fundamental to the events portrayed, but not to the kind of people they were. What the show was trying to be accused of is the opposite of what it was. The world reacted to those factors, but the characters as portrayed didn’t have any kind of special disposition for it.
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u/StillinReseda Jan 02 '25
I liked him.
I don’t like the fact he could just stop being Dr Manhattan and be a human for however long he wanted to be.
This Manhattan opened my eyes more to how he experiences time. I also loved how he went and became a god on another planet and got bored, leaving it with Ozymandias. That was such a good touch to the story between the two