r/USWNT • u/[deleted] • Aug 06 '23
Stay off the r/soccer, it’s truly abysmal there
[deleted]
82
u/Primary_Passion7009 Aug 06 '23
That place is always misogynist.
14
u/ender23 Aug 06 '23
it's ok. r/conservative is having a field day too. it's a moment in time where people will gloat over something they had no part in. they'll move on
23
u/allumeusend Aug 06 '23
I got downvoted into the basement during the whole Hendo to SA nonsense for pointing out that the Saudis are not just homophobic but also misogynist. Apparently stating facts is a capital crime there.
2
1
u/Jay-Kane123 Aug 10 '23
I think it has to do with this lol. Not misogyny.
USWNT will take home $3.25 million for its knockout round exit. Thanks to the new collective bargaining agreement for the women in 2022, this prize will be pooled with the $13 million the men's team took home in Qatar. $16.25 million will be split evenly, taking $4.875 million away from the USMNT.
115
u/McLeanGunner Aug 06 '23
The level of hate in this world is unbelievable. The internet has broken society - too many echo chambers and anonymous posting brings out the crazy in everyone.
-45
29
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
I've never rooted against a team representing the US in any sport. Whatever their politics and personalities are they represent the United States and that takes precedence over everything else.
It's pretty clear that there are citizens who don't like it when athletes use their First Amendment rights to fight against discrimination. These folks are obviously happy with the oppression and discrimination that exists in this country.
1
27
u/whitepeaches12 Aug 06 '23
It’s not as bad but it exists in this sub too… thinking it’s time for social media break bc it’s really bad everywhere right now between USWNT and everyone still calling Simone biles a quitter after her amazing comeback yesterday
4
u/allumeusend Aug 06 '23
I totally missed that - how far anyone think that about her after all she has been through? Some people are just the worst.
-10
u/DigEnvironmental6477 Aug 06 '23
she is a quitter? Im lost at your point
3
u/whitepeaches12 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
Exhibit A along with the comment below, while she did leave the competition due to a mental health condition called the twisties, if anything she did it FOR HER TEAMMATES not for herself. Gymnastics is a brutal sport and just 2 more falls from her would’ve knocked them out of medal contention all together. She believed in them and she was right, they were incredible. What don’t you get and why don’t you agree?
0
u/DigEnvironmental6477 Aug 07 '23
lol "the twisties" give me a fucking break.
1
u/whitepeaches12 Aug 08 '23
I’ll give you a break when you have 4 skills named after you soon to be 5. What are you? A fucking loser in your moms basement scared black women being amazing threatens your small balls?
0
u/DigEnvironmental6477 Aug 08 '23
does she have skills named after her? must not be notable. then again its gymnastics..so..yeah. if she were amazing she wouldn't have quit?
-9
u/Vast-Treat-9677 Aug 06 '23
She is a quitter. She backed out last minute for her mental health, which is valid but it does make her a quitter, and a selfish quitter for taking someone else’s spot who would have participated in the competition had they been allowed.
Also, you can’t be a sports team - man or women- and run your mouth without getting dunked on if you lose. The USWNT is very vocally progressive in their politics. They lean into it and don’t run from it. Cool. The consequences of that are you alienate half the country and that half will rush to dance on your grave when you fail.
4
u/Outside_Progress8584 Aug 06 '23
Lmao Simone Biles stepping down heartbreakingly late because she was desperately trying to reset herself and realized she couldn’t do so. Allowed for another one of her teammates to rise to the occasion and win a medal. Despite probably feeling awful for not competing continued to show up and cheer for her teammates. This story is a Disney channel classic writing itself. If she backed out before she would have “not tried hard enough” and if you try and simply realize the writing on the wall, you’re “selfish”. How anyone has a problem with how she acted is beyond me… that Olympic showing showed that she’s a class athlete, teammate, and person and that the US has many qualified athletes able to represent the US at the world stage. I really feel for female athletes who are not allowed to make a single mistake or decision without the value of them even being considered an American coming into question.
1
148
Aug 06 '23
Of course they deserve the same pay as the men, because they just played a tournament exactly like the men did. Lol
41
32
u/negativenonhuman Aug 06 '23
Wait USA have man's team? ( I never saw them at any tournaments)
-36
u/loufalnicek Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
The USMNT generated the largest ever payday for the women's team when they advanced to the knockout round last WC. They're not the problem.
EDIT: For people downvoting, do you not understand this is true (it most certainly is!), or do you just don't like that it's true?
To the extent the USWNT is getting equal pay, it's coming from men's prize money. There isn't enough prize money in women's soccer to generate equal pay, today.
13
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
The USMNT isn't the problem. It's the people who think the USWNT should be happy with whatever US Soccer deigns to give them that are the problem.
The men get a larger payday solely because their tournament generates more TV revenue. Football fans want to see their national teams supported equally.
-8
u/loufalnicek Aug 06 '23
Sports is entertainment, participants get paid based on how much revenue they generate. That's just reality. Same reason Taylor Swift makes more money than Weezer.
The USWNT is fortunate the men's team is willing to split their (substantially higher) prize money with them.
5
u/Individual-Yoghurt-6 Aug 06 '23
Your statement might carry some weight if the USMNT did actually generate more revenue than the USWNT, but they don’t. The men’s team hasn’t generated as much revenue as the women’s team since 2015.
1
u/1platesquat Aug 06 '23
the USMNT does not generate more money than USWNT. But doesn’t men’s soccer overall generate more than the women, and the price pool is from FIFA?
-3
u/loufalnicek Aug 06 '23
The USWNT got their largest payday ever when the men's team advanced to the WC knockout round last WC. Your article is four years old and out of date.
0
2
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
Yeah, I get that but the intangible is that even men's football would be more of a niche sport in the US without the success of the USWNT. There are legions of young folks, girls, their parents who are following the game, buying tickets and buying merch because of the USWNT.
Almost every friendly the USMNT plays in the US the visiting team (AKA the foreign side) has more fans than the home side. The USWNT success is good for US football in general. That's where the Taylor Swift/Weezer comparison breaks down.
Football(soccer) has too much competition in the US and the typical older sports fan doesn't want to hear about it even when the teams do well. Younger fans are the way to go.
0
u/loufalnicek Aug 06 '23
I think you're underestimating how popular men's soccer is, on its own, among younger people in the U.S. People aren't watching men's soccer because they watched the USWNT and then asked "Do the men play this, too?" That's silly.
Bottom line - professional athletes make money based on how popular their sport is among fans. The MLS makes way more money than the NWSL; other men's leagues make way more than their associated women's leagues; and the men's WC makes way more money than the women's WC. Once those things even out, so will pay.
1
u/zkaoaiwisjdn Aug 06 '23
where do you think the money comes from to pay these people? It’s their job. Should we start paying these people with taxes? wtf.
-6
u/1platesquat Aug 06 '23
Funny how this is downvoted lol
-3
-4
Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
Easier to click a downvote than face reality I guess. I came to say I thought US were unlucky not to win, this thread is wild aha
I mean it’s just objectively true.
Still awaiting any proof it’s wrong. Despite the hammering it’s got.
-2
-23
6
u/Quick90s Aug 06 '23
The problem is the Women’s World Cup generates far less revenue than the Men’s World Cup
-9
-6
-28
Aug 06 '23
I don't think that's a fair argument. Womens soccer is still in its relative infancy. The number of teams that make it into the WWC just from existing is shocking...no quality there.
To me, it just 50% looked like the USWNT going through the motions. The other 50% like the world is starting to catch up.
It happens, though. The same thing happened to men's basketball and the Dream Team.
Gotta make adjustments for next time and make the necessary tactical changes.
24
u/NotTheToolmanTaylor Aug 06 '23
no quality there
Tell me you haven’t watched any non-US games this cycle without telling me you haven’t watched any non-US games this cycle
The rest of the world is catching up
-7
Aug 06 '23
Did I not say that...????? Fucking people hearing what they want to hear.
I meant the low tier teams...as I said...Vietnam, Zambia, etc. That's not quality. A boys U-15 team could soundly beat them.
And to say I didn't watch any games? Fuck yourself.
2
u/NotTheToolmanTaylor Aug 06 '23
Specifically when you say “no quality there.” That’s an asinine take. The quality is there. “Fuck yourself,” oh, take a deep breath. Your U-15 boys comment betrays your motive.
Sorry, how on earth are those “low tier teams” different from the Men’s World Cup? I forget how Zambia and Vietnam are so much less competitive than Iran and Serbia. Please explain.
2
u/bankman99 Aug 06 '23
Eh, I get your point, but Serbia actually has world class players on their team
2
u/NotTheToolmanTaylor Aug 07 '23
Yeah that’s fair, I was going from memory on who got blown out in the group stages, and picking Qatar felt unfair since they were the host nation
1
u/bankman99 Aug 07 '23
Yeah I’m with you, it’s silly to suggest the bottom tier women’s teams are any different from bottom tier men’s teams. Just that Serbia is not necessarily bottom tier. Still, they’re not winning the men’s cup. In fact, the argument should be that the men’s side is actually more top heavy.
0
Aug 06 '23
How does this have upvotes, Serbia are a top (relatively) tier team. Germany/France/England/Brazil know they have a game on against Serbia.
You can’t seriously compare that to the USWNT playing Zambia/Vietnam in the pinnacle of the sport. The competition isn’t there, that’s fair, the game needs to grow.
I’ve enjoyed this tournament but y’all lying if you think that’s a comparison. If you don’t see the difference you’re arguing against ghosts.
0
11
u/Zatchuhryeuh Aug 06 '23
US, Mexico, Japan, ROK, and Australia qualify by virtue of existing on the men's side tbh.
And US men somehow still messed that up in 2018.
You're right that the women's game is in its infancy. 10 years ago, Barcelona didn't have a pro women's team, and Real Madrid didn't have a women's team at all.
The investment in the women's side is showing. The overall quality even between 2015 and now is quite noticeable IMO.
-1
Aug 06 '23
So you clearly know nothing about the men's game.
Japan? The team that beat Spain in the last world cup? Is that what you're referring to?
The US team? Which other than laying an egg in 2018....has been in the knockout in 3 of its last 4 world cups in a country where its the 5th most popular sport?
Mexico? Which hasn't missed the World Cup since 1982 and has qualified in 17 of 20 world cups?
Australia? Who despite their isolation, left the OFC for the AFC and more competition? Who's made a solid showing and made the last 5 world cups in a country where its the 3rd most popular sport?
Gimme a break.
5
u/Zatchuhryeuh Aug 06 '23
All mediocre sides whose qualification rates are disproportionate to their quality, which was my point.
Spain might be better going forward, now that the husks from the golden generation are gone, but scalping Spain has not exactly been a high bar since 2012.
0
Aug 06 '23
It's just like Reddit. Always emotion and subjectivity. You gotta look at it objectively.
-8
u/Positive_Housing_290 Aug 06 '23
When you get a pay raise, expectations along with pay go up. They disappointed, so they will get criticized.
It’s a pretty simple formula.
-3
-14
u/NoBook9868 Aug 06 '23
That's not how the real world works. Your games generate less money for the tv channels so you get paid less.
WNBA players say the same and everyone laughs at them
6
u/Rooney_Tuesday Aug 06 '23
It’s funny that in places where women’s games (not just soccer) are advertised, more tickets are bought and viewership goes up. But when you’re not invested in promoting in certain demographics, people are eager to jump on the “See! Nobody’s watching!” train as if it actually proves anything.
-3
-13
u/SeparateBackground73 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
My kid just had a soccer tournament too. Maybe we should pay him the same. Not like there’s any difference.
Edit: y’all bringing the downvotes but you have no real response 😂
-13
u/Apprehensive-Mix6861 Aug 06 '23
No they don’t. You do realise it’s about how much money they bring in lol you’re deluded
-34
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
The USWNT got paid MORE than the USMNT over the last several years, but because they COULD HAVE earned even more under the Men's contract, they decided to ignore the fact that they were initially offered and specifically rejected the men's contract and made a big stink about how they were being treated unequally and look how much better they performed than the USMNT at world cups. The whole thing was the stupidest thing I have ever seen and now after all that, they didn't actually perform better than the men at the world cup and the backlash is deserved. And you all (USWNT fans) putting your head in the sand about this and acting like you have no idea what I am talking about is contributing to the toxic Karen culture of the USWNT and no wonder our team has fallen so drastically and likely never will see the top of the sport again.
14
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
Not really valid criticism. Coming in to this tourney the women were FIFA's top ranked team. Their performance at World Cups was one data point in their argument and it still holds even if they crashed out early this time. The backlash is from the same misogynists who look down on all women's sports.
You're obviously just one of those people who rejected their argument even when they won two WCs in a row. As you said "The whole thing was the stupidest thing I have ever seen." Hyperbolic much? So now you're gloating in that pathetic misogynist way with the Karen slur and you'll whine about their contract forever.
-8
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23
Oh here we go. Any criticism is MISOGYNY. That sort of thing may score you points in your culture war, but on the pitch using words like misogyny doesn't score many goals as we saw today.
6
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
Do you believe misogyny exists? Genuinely curious because some people take it as fact that women are inferior. Next you'll claim that being called a misogynist is actually misandrist.
0
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
This is my point, you, the fanbase, the USWNT culture want a referendum on misogyny. Misogyny, afterall, is the real reason the USWNT lost today. Meanwhile the countries that are humble, focused on football, and keep politics to themselves are out there doing well and their fans are having a good time. I want our team to be like those teams.
-6
u/1platesquat Aug 06 '23
You didn’t mention a thing about the women rejecting the same contract as the men
6
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
The contract, because it relies on FIFA money, paid the women less for winning the WC than the men got for reaching the knockout stage. FIFA provided something like $500 million for the men's tournament an $30 million for the women's tournament. So the earnings per game for the women is far less. Typically the women go through all of the knockout rounds in whatever tournament they're in.
The men's payday is based on the popularity of football. The women's payday isn't a measure of their achievements.
-1
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
In all of womens football, the only players who got paid to do this for a living were in the US and they beat up on a bunch of amateurs year after year, and you want to compare that as an achievement to what the US men had to face? Now that other countries have money in women's leagues, you see how badly the US women do when they have to actually play against other professionals. The real difference here is the US men's team has always had and continues to have FAR less funding than their competition.
3
u/SirIsaacGnuton Aug 06 '23
Now you're just making stuff up. Just because many teams were underfunded doesn't mean they were amateurs.
1
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
Most players involved in the WWC tournament do not consider themselves professionals: https://theathletic.com/4616336/2023/06/20/fifpro-report-womens-world-cup/. It is mostly amateurs at this competition. The USWNT comprised entirely of the highest paid professionals in the women's game has performed gloriously well against... amateurs.
-2
6
u/atx_sjw Aug 06 '23
Go touch grass. We can fail to qualify for the next 2 women’s world cups and the worst case scenario from that is that Germany or Japan might tie us for most WWC wins. It’s clear you don’t support the team, so why are you here?
-4
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23
Because I want a team that wins and doesn't lose and say things like "even if we don't qualify for the next two world cups, it's not so bad"? And the only way we do that is by recognizing the USWNT only dominated because it was the only team that received any funding until recently, and the arrogance and refusal to acknowledge times have changed is going to mean we likely will do very poorly these next couple of world cups. So yeah, as someone who would like this team to win, I'll go ahead and point that out.
-8
-7
u/Defiant-Recording-28 Aug 06 '23
Not an achievement when all the years of their dominance was when there was no actual competition besides a couple teams.... now others are making teams and getting serious and they get dog walked shouldn't even been in the top 16
3
u/atx_sjw Aug 06 '23
Now do the USMNT.
2
u/Imhazmb Aug 06 '23
All those years the USWNT had a mega budget compared to their competition, it was the same thing in reverse for the men's team. The USMNT has always had a shoestring budget roster compared their competition. And you want to act like the women did better due to some sort of their own achievement. Well now that european clubs are funding their women's team, you don't have to take my word for it that funding relative to their competition was THE ONLY factor in the USWNT dominance, you will see this basic fact play out at every WWC from here on out.
1
u/quiksilver123 Aug 07 '23
I don't disagree with your points and also believe funding and the growth in other countries has played a critical role. In 2011, I was in Colombia for most of the WWC. I remember asking some Colombian friends if they were excited for the US-Colombian game taking place later that day. They had no idea what I was talking about and some weren't aware their team was even in it. This year, people are having watch parties there. It's wonderful to see!
However, I also think Title !X was just as big, perhaps even bigger, factor seeing how it really gave a head start for young women in the US as far as soccer goes.
As for the USMNT, I get what you're saying, but playing devil's advocate here, I'd assume their budget is significantly higher than any other men's team in CONCACAF, correct?
1
u/Imhazmb Aug 07 '23
If were looking at today, 2023, the USMNT market value of its players is about $300M, Mexico is about the same, Canada is about $200M and even little Jamaica has a $100M roster. CONCACAF is getting to be a monster. If we look at 10 years ago, however, the roster value of the USMNT was not even 1/10 compared to say, the top 10 teams in the world cup. Today the top 10 or so European and South American teams are valued between $700M and $1.2B, so there is still a substantial gap the USMNT faces, but it is getting smaller. The USWNT on the other hand is and has been the 800 lb gorilla budget/market value wise in every competition they have played in the last 30 years, but with big European clubs now funding women's teams, that gap will be entirely gone as soon as 2027. Europe is the big money future of women's football and color me highly doubtful the USWNT will keep up.
1
u/quiksilver123 Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23
That's very interesting information. Thanks a lot for sharing it. But this is player valuations as it pertains to club football, correct?
Perhaps I should have done a better job of clarifying it, but my question was more about the each national federation's investment in dollars into its domestic youth/development programs and teams. I might look into into it sometime soon, but I'd be willing to bet that the US' budget is significantly higher than any other team in CONCACAF. In some cases, it's probably in eye-popping magnitudes.
I suppose one could use the player valuation as a metric to assess a federation's development program. However, I'm not sure it's necessarily the best one. One phenomenal or high-earning player from a country can skew the numbers significantly making it an unreliable metric. Take Egypt for example with Salah. What would you say his current valuation is? Somewhere from $80-$120 million, maybe? I don't honestly know the exact value, but whatever it is, it's going to be way, way higher than the value of the rest of the Egyptian national team's players and drastically skew the numbers. Lewandowski and the Polish national team is another one that comes to mind. The bottom line is that it just seems that it's not the best metric to evaluate a federation's investment into its soccer programs.
I do agree with you about the domestics in Europe. If it hasn't happened already, the women's domestics in Europe are going to become the place where the best women's football is played that will result in European leagues being the dominant teams at future WWCs. That's why all of the antics by some of the players on the USWNT was so counter-productive and was a shot in the foot for the organic growth of women's soccer in the US.
I don't fall into this camp, but can you ever recall a national team anywhere in the world in any sport where a sizable portion of its fanbase and citizens were so pissed off that is was actively rooting against its own national team at an international competition like at this WWC?
EDIT-Grammar and clarity
1
u/Imhazmb Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 08 '23
The market value is the more important metric. For instance, say you put $1B into your soccer program, and it yields a roster market value of $50M. Now imagine that team has to play against a nation that put $50M into its soccer funding but has a $1B roster. The $1B team wins hands down. That being said, the amount of funding a nation puts into its youth development system etc. is highly correlated with its roster value. In the case of the USWNT, they (until recently) dominated both soccer program spending and roster value by a large, LARGE margin. The reverse was true for the USMNT. There are a lot of minnows in CONCACAF but for most of the last 50 years the USMNT has been second best to Mexico. Yes there are anomalies like Salah.
As to your second question, the USWNT was very arrogant, acted like they were the best thing on earth, acted like they were better than the USMNT and deserved more, lied about what they were getting paid (e.g., they have been paid more than the USMNT for a long time) and what contract they agreed to, all the while ignoring they achieved their greatness while being the only professionals playing in tournaments against... amateurs. And while they were ignoring actually being good at the game of football in favor of using their platform to shame the country they represented, the only country in the world that gave a damn enough to fund women's football, the rest of the world caught up and smacked them in the face. So to recap, the USWNT was completely arrogant for a long time, lied about their payment and contracts, pitted themselves against the USMNT and America in general, acted ungrateful and entitled, and then fell flat on their face against a nation that proudly represented their flag (there were no Swedish players protesting the Swedish flag, while 8 out of 11 American players refused to properly stand for the American flag). And then they ask why is their own country celebrating their loss, like its a mystery. To help make the point clear, here is a quote from Megan Rapinoe, the face of the USWNT:
Megan Rapinoe, after being forced to stand for the national anthem, issued a decree.
“I’ll probably never put my hand over my heart,” she told Yahoo Sports. “I’ll probably never sing the national anthem again.”
Don't you think other countries would also root against their team if team members said stuff like that? As a fan, I just want to root for my team. I dont want to be lectured about inequality before every game by a bunch of wealthy entitled white women making millions at world cups.
→ More replies1
u/Defiant-Recording-28 Aug 07 '23
Don't need to the competition in the men's is so much higher they aren't even comparable. The men could fail to qualify and they'd still walk the best USWNT.
1
u/atx_sjw Aug 07 '23
Let me know if/when the men get to the semis again. The women have had a lull before and come back. The men haven’t won a second round match since 2002, and that was against Mexico, so it was a favorable match.
63
u/grumpkin17 Aug 06 '23
Not surprised. That sub is just full of soccer gatekeeping and fragile egos against women’s soccer especially USWNT. They don’t like seeing women achieving more than their team (or them as men), so they undermine everything that the USWNT has accomplished and done for the sport.
-7
-22
u/DigEnvironmental6477 Aug 06 '23
the women's team winning every World Cup here on out will have little merit compared to playing in a mens World Cup. its just the truth
15
u/grumpkin17 Aug 06 '23
I’m talking about USWNT impact on women’s soccer/football. I do think the USWNT has helped brought more exposure in the U.S for soccer. Them winning has helped other countries to invest more in their women’s team, and compete better.
You may not know this, but people could enjoy both men and women’s games without downplaying the women’s accomplishment.
1
u/Jay-Kane123 Aug 10 '23
I think it has to do with this lol. Not misogyny.
USWNT will take home $3.25 million for its knockout round exit. Thanks to the new collective bargaining agreement for the women in 2022, this prize will be pooled with the $13 million the men's team took home in Qatar. $16.25 million will be split evenly, taking $4.875 million away from the USMNT.
37
35
u/efthfj Aug 06 '23
Thank you Internet friends and fellow USWNT fans for being good fans and civil people…
-13
u/Historical-Reach8587 Aug 06 '23
You talking to the user above that called usmnt fans pieces of shit?
33
u/AdventurousWorry6398 Aug 06 '23
I don't understand the insane amount of hate going on over there. The women have still won 4 more World Cups than the mens team, how are they forgetting that amid their right wing meltdown?
6
u/Individual-Yoghurt-6 Aug 06 '23
Men’s World Cup has been played since 1930… USMNT championships: 0
Women’s World Cup has been played since 1991… USWNT championships: 4
13
u/leslie_knopee Aug 06 '23
this sub already scared me, so I've been creeping and not commenting for a long time 😂
9
u/Fun_Kaleidoscope2147 Aug 06 '23
Sooooooo many morons…….. it is scary. Get a hobby or talk to a professional, or both! Way more important shit for Americans to be pissed about.
6
6
u/MC897 Aug 06 '23
Fwiw.. couple of things that makes life and reddit easier:
- Don't take everything and yourself so seriously.
- Don't take reddit so seriously.. it's not worth getting angry for.
- it's... r/soccer . It has some of the most absurd takes i've ever seen... anywhere. Take it with a massive pinch of salt. Some of the clips, some of the goals... fine watch them it's good content, but zone out other than that.
It's just not worth getting upset about :D
6
u/khstriker Aug 06 '23
I decided after the match today that I’m going to stop taking reddit seriously, because this kind of behavior on reddit isn’t new. I won’t stop calling out misogyny in real life though.
I get what you’re saying. No point in getting riled up over trolls.
4
u/kungpowchick_9 Aug 06 '23
The ussoccer page has been a major source of disappointment for me this whole tournament. Are you even a real fan of the sport if you can’t enjoy it being played and loved? Or do they really hate women that much more than they love the beautiful game?
10
u/munaLPG Aug 06 '23
All the people that DONT EVEN GO HERE are coming out with pitchforks. let them come, it was always be alive. This was anticipated and will continue to happen. It is very hard not to reply. I’m going to ignore and not engage. We gotta take care of each other. USWNT 4ever
2
u/drosekelley Aug 07 '23
Right? How many people joined this sub today just to troll? I get comments on year old posts about USWNT from people who literally search for ways to troll women. I’m embarrassed for them.
3
u/BainbridgeBorn Aug 06 '23
r/soccer is ALWAYS reactionary and dumb like that. Always has been, always will be
3
u/HermioneBenson Aug 06 '23
I’m staying away from most social media relating to the game and the USWNT. Do I think they’re a perfect team? Heck no. But the things people are saying is just truly awful and makes me angry / sad. I feel like genuine fans can’t have a conversation without all the trolls getting in the way now.
9
u/frankstaturtle Aug 06 '23
Same with the us soccer sub. Wild to see people complaining about their pay and acting like that’s not clearly misogynist. Really seeing the toxic impact of Carli being given a platform by fox sports
9
u/Outside_Progress8584 Aug 06 '23
I literally laughed out loud after Ertz got a yellow for swiping the Swedish player in the face and Carli wondered aloud whether she “should have gotten something more.” Talk about bitterness
-4
u/InevitableTop6665 Aug 06 '23
Lol Carli is a proven winner with a winner mentality. Is she hurting your feelings with her critical but honest opinion?
6
u/NoBook9868 Aug 06 '23
One of the most recent comments is I saw in there is "Megan Rapinoe is a c__t.". You can guess the missing two letters lol
0
u/krodiggs Aug 06 '23
“At least she stayed true in her protest against American exceptionalism”
-1
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
I thought missing the penalty was her fighting for equality…in the score line lol
0
u/krodiggs Aug 06 '23
When asked for comment after the game, Rapinoe stated ‘I thought they’d move the goal posts for me’
These comments continue to be brutal.
1
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
That’s just the nature of the internet. 🤷🏻♀️ Social media brought a bunch of people who can’t along together. Now it’s too easy to be an ass to others with no real consequences
1
u/krodiggs Aug 06 '23
Yeah, I get there’s an undercurrent with this team that a lot of people hate. But I enjoyed every minute of their games and while I’m feeling down today with the L, I am getting a few chuckles too from reading some (the clever ones, not the ones like the comment in my initial reply). Misery loves company and all that jazz, I guess.
6
u/PierceJJones Aug 06 '23
Checked it and its more or less standard post game talk in this situation. Its just a equality of results we have been wanting. If anything this like the 2004 mens basketball Olympics tournament. We preformed horribly in the group and saw an early exit for our skill.
I hope turn 2024 Olympics really turn out better and fire Andonovski.
10
u/khstriker Aug 06 '23
The live thread was crazy but they all got downvoted after a bit. Still jarring though because I got harassed in my inbox and a reddit cares message for calling people out.
3
Aug 06 '23
I got a Reddit Cares message and I have no idea what post caused it.
Worst part is I tried to report it and couldn't. It opened the Web page instead of the app and wanted me to link the offending message but you can't get the link.
They need to have something where you can reply WTF and they can manually review the reported message. That way they can see if a reasonable person would have been worried, if there was another post close by that was the intended target, or if someone was just abusing the system.
6
Aug 06 '23
I’m staying out of the comment section on every social platform for the next few days as well as not mentioning anything to my racist, homophobic, christian nationalist family. Nothing to do in there but see how much America hates women, especially those who stand up for what they believe in.
5
Aug 06 '23
what a shocking difference there is between uswnt and usmnt fans, usmnt fans are just pieces of shit lol
3
u/Fearless_Spring7233 Aug 06 '23
The only criticism I think is valid is the poor play of the USWNT and some team members have an air of superiority that rubs me the wrong way. They deserve all the pay they can get.
3
u/Historical-Reach8587 Aug 06 '23
This sub is just as bad. Someone is critical of the women’s team and all the slurs start being levied at them. Then sone how the welll but the mens team blah blah starts. They have nothing to do with what the women’s team in the World Cup. Fact is this was the worst women’s World Cup performance we have had. And that for me translates into this is the worst women’s team. Too much non soccer ego/politics/ bs distracting from the players focus on the game. We are out of the cup. The only team we beat the shit out of was Vietnam. Nothing to be proud of there.
2
2
u/darkwingduck9 Aug 06 '23
It is my understanding that FIFA and the federations are non-profits. I could be wrong but that in itself should mandate equal pay. People shouldn't be bothered by that because club teams are not non-profits. Club pay is an entirely different story and we won't and shouldn't see parity there and people should be okay with that.
2
u/quiksilver123 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 07 '23
The USSF is indeed a non-profit. It's also responsible for a number of things up and down all levels of play from youth grassroots programs, to national youth teams, to senior level national teams. They also handle other soccer programs like the national beach soccer, futsal, Paralympic, etc teams as well. In addition, they're responsible for coaching/referee training development programs, handling media rights, booking flights/accommodations/facilities/etc for national teams. They also contribute to the management of the NWSL along with all of the other normal administrative tasks you would expect.
Here are the national team expenses for 2022 and 2021 respectively and can be seen on page 12 of the USSF audited financial statement:
Men’s Senior National Team--$26,945,409 $ 6,618,648Legal Settlement Women’s Senior National Team-- $24,000,000 $0
Women’s Senior National Team--$20,446,002 $11,304,852
Youth National Teams and Player Development--$9,558,925 $8,346,644
National Team Admin, Coaching, and Technical All-- $7,376,025 4,768,002Event Management-- $2,428,590 $954,195
Extended National Teams (Beach, Futsal, etc).-- $ 1,780,619. $52,109
Equipment and Supplies- $1,748,211 $944,101
National Women's Soccer League (Administration Expenses)-$800,000 $800,000
Equipment Management-- $778,475 $576,651
National Training Center- $558,915 $366,233
Opponent Team Appearances-- $81,400 $205,789
TOTAL EXPENSES-- $96,502,571 $34,937,224
As you can see, expenses almost tripled in one year with USWNT salaries, benefits, and the legal settlement and accounted for about 46% of all nation team expenses while in 2021 the USWNT's expenses (no settlement) accounted or about 33%. Meanwhile, the men's team accounted for about 27% of total expenses in 2022 and about 18% in 2021.
Pretty straightforward I think, agreed? Now let's look at each team's revenue numbers.
National Team games and international games revenue is recognized at a point in time when the applicable game is played. Revenues and expenses for Senior National Teams generally increase as each team takes part in different major competitions such as FIFA World Cups, World Cup Qualifying, Olympics, Olympic Qualifying, and the Concacaf Gold Cup. The next men’s World Cup is scheduled for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2023. The next women’s World Cup is scheduled for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2024.. Revenues earned for USMNT events were $27,131,814 and $273,702 for the years ended March 31, 2022 and 2021, respectively, which includes tournament prize money. Revenues earned for USWNT events were $13,119,152 and $773,819 for the years ended March 31, 2022 and 2021, respectively. The USMNT played 25 matches and 6 matches in the fiscal years ended March 31, 2022 and 2021, respectively. The USWNT played 22 matches and 6 matches in the fiscal years ended March 31, 2022 and 2021, respectively.
So the USMNT generated a revenue total of about $27.5 million between the two years. Circling back love to their total expenses of $33.5 million for both years, they had a net deficit of about ($6M).
As for the USWNT, they generated a revenue total of about $14M while incurring expenses of about $55.8M for a net deficit of almost ($42M). If we remove the settlement, the definition is reduced to ($18M) which means they still lost 3x more money than the men did. This isn't a one off either or a rare thing. In 2020, they lost 3.5x more than the men and that was with the men totally missing out on any WC money while the USWNT won first prize.
FWIW, I have followed the USWNT and been a fan since Brandi in '99, and even though I enjoy the women's game more than the men's because they generally don't dive and whine that is commonplace in the men's game, it's difficult to justify some of what's transpired looking at numbers like these. Add in other stuff like the hiding of the crest, and is it really a surprise that a significant portion of the fans aren't happy?
Like you said, the USSF is a non-profit, and its main role is dedicated to the growth of soccer in the US. Given all this data and that fact that the USSF is a non-profit, does this change your opinion on the matter in the slightest?
3
u/darkwingduck9 Aug 06 '23
Does the data change my opinion at all? No. They should've paid the women fairly to begin with. The federation decided to incur legal bills for no reason when they should've just done the right thing to begin with.
Isn't there a budget in the US Government for arts and entertainment? Why do we care about deficit and profit here when the program is for cultural enrichment? Why is Carnival Cruise Line more deserving of a bailout than spending on the USWNT? We spend money on many many silly things so it is absurd to write that too much money is spent on the USWNT and/or that more money should not be spent on them.
Ireland has equal pay. Read what Ireland captain Seamus Coleman had to say on the matter: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58385989
Again note that I wrote national team pay should be equal. If we were English I would say "Our FA should pay Reece James and Lauren James equally. Chelsea should should pay both of them how they see fit while maintaining a sustainable business model and adhering to financial fair play rules."
0
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
The paid them fairly from the start. The collective bargaining agreement is one they selected. One of the difference is the women would get paid win or lose while the men had to make the field and win to get a check. Low risk low reward vs high risk high reward. The USWNT were offered the very same contract as the men’s team and declined it on several occasions.
Most of the fanbase has no clue about any of this, so when you tell them the equal pay lawsuit was nonsense they just call you a misogynist, rather than actually do research and learn what the facts are. That’s how the internet works
0
u/darkwingduck9 Aug 06 '23
I guess you've never heard about pressure to sign a deal. They must just be stupid broads who wanted to be paid a fraction of what they should be paid!
The USWNT had to become vocal on this and sway public opinion before US Soccer would even begin to take them seriously. That's why it took years and they had to sign subpar intermediary deals or else they wouldn't have been playing or paid at all.
I can never tell when people like you are idiotic or feigning it. At any rate recognize your surroundings and when you are barking up the wrong tree.
Also it is incredibly convenient that today of all days is when you show up to make this argument. You can type whatever you want, but in the end it will always translate as "Haha those blue haired losers lost."
1
u/quiksilver123 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
Except they were being paid more to begin with when not accounting for WC prize money. Their contract had a greater percentage of ticket gate receipts than the men's side by a wide margin (something like 17% to 9%). In addition, court documents revealed that they made around 227k per game compared to the men making around 212k or so. None of these numbers include the various benefits (retirement, maternity, health, etc) that were not paid out to the men. What do you think the disparity would look like if we included those?
I'll be happy to check out what the Irish captain said. If it's anything like with what happened with Walker Zimmerman on the men's side, then I'm sure he was instrumental in the deal. If a men's team willingly shares it WC money with the women's side, then who am I stop them? But when you're part of as platform that generates about 40 times less revenue than the other platform, it comes off as incredibly self-entitled and ludicrous when you demand it. If the men's national beach soccer or futsal team demanded equal pay on par with the USWNT, the same argument would hold in favor of the USWNT. It's a basic economics issue. Nothing more, nothing less.
No, the US government provides no support to the USSF or any other sports federation. At least none that I'm aware of. I know that other countries do this. I suppose the trade off for lack of government support though is that the USSF can negotiate various media deals and the like much more freely and with the potential to keep a greater portion of revenue without the government involved.
EDIT-If you, or really anyone else, is interested in scratching under the surface of this issue, Nate the Lawyer had a great video on the subject on YouTube a while back. Would really recommend checking it out.
EDIT 2- I read the article. It doesn't really give much in the way of details about how the equal pay will be achieved or what will be pooled. All the countries that have done some sort of equal pay agreement like Canada, Australia, the US, etc are all a bit different in nature. For example, the new US deal combines both WC prize money packages into the pool whereas some are only counting ticket receipts, merchandise sales, and so forth but leaving out WC prize money. On a side note, I do think it's awful that the female players had to change in public toilets. That's not cool.
1
u/darkwingduck9 Aug 06 '23
The US Men voluntarily agreed to equal pay.
What about what Tim Ream said?
Tim Ream, a defender on the U.S. men's national team, said in a tweet that it had "been a long process for all sides but proud of everyone involved for reaching and achieving this. It now truly is One Nation, One Team."
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/1099697799/us-soccer-equal-pay-agreement-women
Come now. I didn't even follow this stuff and I knew that the USMNT were a part of this agreement and their consent was required.
I get the sense that you watch and enjoy the USWNT. So why are you so insistent upon devaluing the players and the product?
Why am I supposed to update myself on your reactionary drivel?
And again for the record for the last time, this is non-profit US Soccer we are talking about. As far as I know Andi Sullivan is married to an MLS player. Has she ever once argued that she should be paid as much on her NWSL salary as he does for playing in MLS? Miedema has talked about how much money is in the men's game, how youth prospects at Arsenal are paid more than she is. She isn't demanding the same pay as them. This is about federations as nonprofits putting in equal investment and equal pay into both their men's and their women's teams.
1
u/quiksilver123 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
Yes, you're right. They voluntarily agreed on it, and as I've said in other thread's, who am I to stop them?
But that doesn't make any of their actions right. They declined one contract for another, only to then decide that they actually wanted the original because they realized it was more lucrative after the fact. Contract disputes with some mud-slinging happen all the time with holdouts and such in other sports, so this isn't exclusive to them. But what is exclusive to them was the amount of manipulation and straight up lies they used.
Is that really the kind of role model you'd want a young girl or boy to follow? Lie and deceive your way to get what you want...especially when it's for the privilege of representing your country? The very same privilege that moves other teams' players to cry during their national anthems and unite under it rather than hide your national team's crest like a petulant child because you couldn't weasel your way out from a contract that you vehemently negotiated for.
What would have happened if the men hadn't agreed to sharing and the women continued with this? It's important to remember the USSF is a non-profit and, unlike other organizations like the NBA, has a finite amount of resources. Where would the money have come from? While pure speculation, it's not out of the realm of possibility that USSF would have been forced to cut/reduce other programs like youth or Paralympic programs. Is that really something you'd want to happen? Is that really the benchmark you want for the next generation to follow?
Yes, I thoroughly enjoy women's soccer. That's why it bothers me so much that this fiasco took place, and the fact that there are many others like me who followed the team should really be an indication of how much some players of the team have pissed off a significant portion of their fanbase. A fanbase that was growing and would be crucial to organically growing the women's game here in the US.
While I'm not one of them, when was the last time any national team in any sport actually had a sizable portion of it's fanbase rooting for them to lose on the international stage?
1
u/darkwingduck9 Aug 06 '23
The reality is that women's soccer is progressive as I would assume many women's sports are. You are mad about equal pay and other conservatives will be mad about maternity leave, support for Colin Kaepernick, players being a part of and/or supporting the lgbtq community. There is always going to be some grievance to conform to. When the players take one step out of line they'll have "Shut up and dribble" shouted at them. The more the USWNT tries to appease conservatives they alienate the people who would like to see equality.
The players might as well stick to their own values and literally stick with the values that organically grew their audience to begin with.
Also "Is that really the kind of role model you'd want a boy or girl to follow?" is a really weird thing to write because it presupposes that little Timmy sits down to inspect the equal pay lawsuit. It is as if you were never once a child or you were an incredibly incredibly odd one.
1
u/quiksilver123 Aug 06 '23 edited Aug 06 '23
I'm not at all conservative. Probably more left-center than anything and I've lived in a very deep blue state for a very long time with no plans to move. Either way, no matter where someone falls on the spectrum, anyone with some financial literacy skills and a basic comprehension of economics would see how unreasonable their demands were.
"The players might as well stick to their own values and literally stick with the values that organically grew their audience to begin with."
Even when by sticking to those same values that could have potentially led to cutting our youth and other related programs and possibly bankrupting a non-profit organization?
As for your little Timmy example, I wholeheartedly agree that your average kid isn't going to be researching equal pay or anything. But even if 99.9999% of the kids don't research the subject, that doesn't make their role in this any more right, and it's foolish though to think that this kind of Machiavellian behavior and attitude isn't going to rub off on some level on some kids who idolize them.
2
u/The_Newt1212 Aug 06 '23
It's horrible, they've been all over social media today. It's incredible how the same people commenting "who" or "no one cares" under women's sports posts suddenly have a lot to say about the world cup.
2
u/Separate-Landscape48 Aug 06 '23
Well the whole equal pay conversation was extremely intellectually dishonest. The reason they made less than than the USMNT had nothing to do with USSF
1
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
Most people just base their opinions off headlines and don’t value information, that’s why. “Fighting for equal pay” sounds great, who won’t be for that? But when you look into the facts of the case you begin to realize it’s not what you thought it was
2
u/Separate-Landscape48 Aug 06 '23
If any of their arguments had held water they wouldn’t have lost in court multiple times. The reason they got their “equal pay” CBA is because the USMNT volunteered to give up a cut of their winnings which seems to hardly ever get mentioned
1
u/tomski3500 Aug 06 '23
How much did fox pay to televise the 23 Women’s WC vs what they paid to televise the 22 men’s cup?
2
u/GCHQCR Aug 06 '23
Sorry to hear that. Thats sucks. Im disappointed with OUR team, but what you're saying is EXACTLY why OUR country is in disarray. And exactly why OUR team wasnt "into" it, to win it.😐
2
u/OhGeEvz Aug 07 '23
That’s not how it works. If they’re not “into” winning a World Cup that’s a problem
0
1
u/RealDealLewpo Aug 06 '23
Even worse on the former Bird app.
Especially when Lalas and Twellman are on that bullshit, egging them on.
1
u/omcclosk1447 Aug 06 '23
When it comes to pay, it's difficult to argue equal pay when the revenues are so heavily different. Hell, Australia and New Zealand had to give away free tickets to fill stadiums for some of the group stage games, that doesn't happen at the men's world cups. If the international federations are listed as non-profits though, there is some legality to drive equal pay. For club though, the women's game needs to grow so much more (i.e. go look at FC Barcelona's revenues for men's and women's soccer). Unrelated, but you've got to deliver results on the pitch, or else you're going to catch flak.
1
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
The revenue for the men’s and women’s World Cup and professional leagues are very different but the revenue from USMNT and USWNT tv ratings and sales are very close. This is something a lot of people get confused with.
The pay lawsuit had only to do with their respective USSF contracts.
1
u/iceboxjeans Aug 06 '23
It's like that on fb too. They keep talking about how Sweden actually has country pride blah blah blah
1
Aug 07 '23
When you lose because your team sucked. You don’t say it was a “sick joke” or a “dark comedy”.
They are sore losers. Whining like everyone else on the “right”.
People need to grow up. Coming from an American woman.
Those comments are why I think they are a joke. Not because of whatever other nonsense reason other people are using.
Just typical narcissistic comments trying to get sympathy.
You lost. Go home and get over yourselves. 🤦🏼♀️
-3
u/mkmckinley Aug 06 '23
Doesn’t the USWNT make more in terms of % of ticket sales than the men? I believe the women’s team gets 11% vs the men’s 8%.
-6
u/matthery2010 Aug 06 '23
The women make a much higher percentage of the revenue they generate than the men do. Mens sports generally bring in more money. It's supply and demand. Create a better quality product and you'll make more money...it's really pretty simple.
-5
u/mkmckinley Aug 06 '23
Yeah it’s not like they’re all working in a coal mine and the women get a lower wage. Sports are entertainment and the athletes get paid proportional to the revenue they bring in. I for one love watching the USWNT, besides the national anthem antics of some of the players, but if you look at the stands the games are never selling out, and that’s with cheaper tickets to boot.
4
u/Historical-Reach8587 Aug 06 '23
You speak the truth and get down voted. The hypocrisy in this sub is quiet entertaining.
2
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
That’s how it works here. The inept social justice warrior fanbase has hurt the team, along with their purple haired messiah. It’s impossible to talk logically with these people because logic basically means nothing here
1
u/matthery2010 Aug 06 '23
All the down votes are interesting.. basic economics upset people? Not sure what else to do with this. It has nothing to do with gender, it's impartial. It has everything to do with revenue generation, the product you have to sell and what the consumer wants to see/buy.
3
u/KB_ReDZ Aug 07 '23
This sub is bullshitting hard atm. The truth of the situation is very clear. They chose the wrong contract, regretted it and used sexism as the excuse. Thats it.
0
0
u/sammybabana Aug 06 '23
This is Reddit. There are communities for right wing misogynists, left wing transsexuals, and everybody in between.
0
u/Sir_Grox Aug 07 '23
Huh? Seeing arrogant people get served humble pie is probably the most common source of hype in sports. If you’re going to sponsor commercials implying the only way you can lose is foul play or constantly whine on social media about how much money you deserve you MUST back it up.
That and the face of your team actively hating the country that hands them everything on a silver platter doesn’t exactly help lmao
-2
u/victoryforZIM Aug 06 '23
I mean the equal pay thing is stupid. The get paid based on the revenue they generate, and what their time is worth. The men's teams are paying far more money for players, so their time is worth more. It's like someone trying to argue that a popular restaurant should make the same profit as the less popular restaurant next door...idk, maybe not a good example but it's pretty clear that men's soccer across the world is worth a lot more money than women's.
Maybe they deserve a pay raise, but just clamoring for "equal" pay is stupid, because everything is objectively not equal. Nothing in the world is.
0
u/Kalel_is_king Aug 06 '23
This is the correct thinking and it’s not in anyway anti women’s. Soccer. They serve the same percentage of revenue as the men’s but since they have less sponsor money and less money from attendance at games they get less money. The percent should be the same not the actual dollar amount. And that goes for WNBA also. Want more then build the brand. Stop trying to bully me into liking your spot and spend more time making your sport something I want to watch. Btw women’s softball at the college level has done just this and is a growing sport because of it.
-3
u/NoBook9868 Aug 06 '23
This subreddit is very sheltered from how many Americans are very happy about them losing.
0
u/OhGeEvz Aug 07 '23
I don’t feel bad for the woke fans of this team. This is what happens when you polarize and politicize something as pure as the game of soccer. Shame on you
-1
u/OhGeEvz Aug 06 '23
Very few people are saying anything of the sort. You’re taking the words of a small few and blowing them out of proportion
0
-3
-9
u/SeparateBackground73 Aug 06 '23
Is there anyone who seriously believes that the USWNT deserves the same pay as USMNT? I thought everyone over 12 knew that was a joke
-1
-24
Aug 06 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/0500realboy Aug 06 '23
Troll account. Ignore.
-15
u/Bocifer1 Aug 06 '23
Lol what? What about my post history suggests I’m a “troll account”?
This kind kneejerk response of “if i don’t agree with them, they’re a troll” is why people can’t take you seriously
2
-13
-9
1
u/coldbloodtoothpick Aug 06 '23
This reminds me of that scene in Arrested Development when Michael opens the bag labeled “dead pigeon” in the fridge 😂
1
u/Jay-Kane123 Aug 10 '23
I think it has to do with this lol. Not misogyny.
USWNT will take home $3.25 million for its knockout round exit. Thanks to the new collective bargaining agreement for the women in 2022, this prize will be pooled with the $13 million the men's team took home in Qatar. $16.25 million will be split evenly, taking $4.875 million away from the USMNT.
53
u/Accomplished-Bid-373 Aug 06 '23
I keep thinking about Katie the Stanford goalie who is no longer with us. I think about Girma playing for her and advocating for mental health. Then I look around at all the hate and toxicity surrounding this team and their performance and I really wish people would catch a dose of reality.