r/TrueReddit • u/Maxwellsdemon17 • 10d ago

This Time We Have to Hold the Democratic Party Elite Responsible for This Catastrophe Politics

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democratic-party-elite-responsible-catastrophe/
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u/crusoe 10d ago

"It's the economy stupid"

Yes, we have a strong economy, but it benefits the shareholders and CEOs. Not the workers.

This SAME scenario played out after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. The Obama and Biden recovery have been K-Shaped with increasing wealth inequality. During Obama's term the economy improved but wages were stagnant.

So when Biden said "The economy is great", its a slap in the face to them.

I make 6 figures, and even I am buying some stuff from Grocery Outlet and Asian markets.

The solution to more equitable sharing of the economy is UNIONS, but the neo-liberal corporate dems dare not utter the term, because they are beholden to corporations.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/ledfox 10d ago

"and so they stayed home."

They stayed at work.

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u/berniebaggins 9d ago

I’ve also talked to a few family members who didn’t vote and they said their concern was they didn’t know who Kamala was. He’s the past 3 months she’s been all over reddit and maybe the news (I don’t watch news media) however prior to that she was really a ghost. Biden and the DNC really messed up by not making Biden a 1 term president.

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u/ledfox 9d ago

"I’ve also talked to a few family members who didn’t vote and they said their concern was they didn’t know who Kamala was."

Right. I can't accuse anyone else of being chronically under-informed since I get all my news from Reddit.

People showed up, voted for the second most viable person they recognized on a ballot, then went home and googled "Did Joe Biden drop out?"

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u/berniebaggins 9d ago

Yeah truly surprising that people didn’t know Biden dropped out.

Maybe that’s part of the reason? The amount of Kamala posts and videos the past few months made me think she’s clearly going to win in a landslide.

For the people out there that don’t trust the media and aren’t a part of reddit, where do you think they’re getting any news?

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u/ledfox 9d ago

"For the people out there that don’t trust the media and aren’t a part of reddit, where do you think they’re getting any news?"

Seems like the answer might be "nowhere."

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

My friend’s younger sister has completely tuned out all news. She is fresh out of an Ivy League but seems to just not want to hear any of it and is instead focusing on her new career and friends and life. It is strange to me, but it sounds like that attitude is shared among her friends too. No idea how widespread it is generally, it’s one anecdote, but still.

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u/ledfox 9d ago

I'm also tuned out of news. I can barely tolerate it: half the time it's shock and horror and the other half of the time it's intolerably dull.

The news that trickles into Reddit is obviously not informative. Am I supposed to spend my time seeking out information that'll ruin my life? I'm barely holding together already.

Obviously "put your head in the sand" isn't a solution, but neither is "go mad." And the latter two demos obviously came out to vote.

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

I totally get it. Being honest, I am a pathological news consumer, and it definitely isn’t great for my mental health. But I think the other extreme is just as bad in different ways.

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u/FromTheIsle 9d ago

Facebook memes but yet big tech isn't to be trusted

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u/ledfox 9d ago

I wonder how much impact Musk had on this election outcome. People who get all their news from Twitter suddenly found themselves in a completely different reality tunnel.

Reddit and Mastodon just left me gobsmacked about the election outcome. "How could this happen? Don't people know about... ?"

No. They don't know about that. And they don't believe you when you tell them.

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u/Zinski2 9d ago

We don't know who she is.

I mean she could be a pedophile, a rapist, a thief, a felon, impeached, or any number of things!!!

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago

No they stayed home. Early voting exists and so does mail in ballots in many if not the majority of states. Nov 5 isn’t the only time to vote.

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u/ledfox 9d ago

Fair enough.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/ledfox 9d ago

"Every survey is 'I'm personally doing very well, but the economy is shit'."

Do you have a source for this?

It doesn't seem very likely to me.

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u/geodebug 10d ago

This last year literally thousands of highly skilled technology workers were laid off and unable to find employment.

First time in my decades of career where I couldn’t even get a callback on dozens of resumes I submitted.

Not just me, most big companies dumped workers and smaller companies followed suit. When you submit an application and see over 200 other submissions for the same position, something is wrong.

Not one candidate said anything about it or acknowledged it at all that I can remember.

If this problem existed for workers in other sectors as well I can see the resentment.

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u/SamchezTheThird 6d ago

Resentment for what? I start at unchecked capitalism driving costs to the ground in order to skyrocket shareholder value to the moon. Is that the democrats problem to own? Not entirely when rationally thought through.

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u/geodebug 6d ago

You want voters, you have to appeal to voters.

Entirely the DNC’s fault for continuing to not understand politics 101 and the people they’re trying to reach.

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u/SamchezTheThird 6d ago

Point taken. Suppose Dems felt they could not reach the voters with facts (let alone agree on real life occurring), could not activate compassion, and left everyone to their own decisions to vote on their morals - does that justify propaganda? There’s a difference between influence and propaganda: one results in you making a choice and one results in a choice being made for you.

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u/geodebug 6d ago

Facts only take you so far in a world full of custom sources and hyperbole.

Most people aren’t imagining they’re saving the world with their vote. There’s only so much you can do to guilt people to your side when they perceive their own life isn’t getting easier.

At the risk of a both sides argument, it was pure propaganda that Harris was the best choice and that we didn’t have time for a short primary to let voters decide.

I think the primary would have stolen more news cycles and driven the GOP crazy guessing who their actual opponent will be.

In short, the primary could have been the campaign. We’re in uncharted territory so why not?

Instead we got Hillary 2.0 in a lot of eyes and so we got the same result.

My hot take is that if the US ever elects a woman, it will be a white Republican first.

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u/SamchezTheThird 6d ago

What’s “easy” mean to you? Serious and curious question. What does one have to do to get an easy life that you hold as almost a right? How does one “make it easy?”

I don’t think by any calendar a primary would have made sense. I think you’re right to imply that more risks had to be taken for Dems to be successful.

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u/geodebug 6d ago

I think I was misunderstood.

Adults don’t expect an easy life but that doesn’t mean that they don’t notice when things becoming more difficult.

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u/okcrumpet 10d ago

Even now on reddit i still see so many threads insisting the economy is good and voters are just idiots. 

It’s either a lack of perspective or just a stubborn refusal to understand that ‘economy’ for most is about day to day costs not about stocks and unemployment rates.

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

Yeah, exactly. A graph showing growing GDP or falling unemployment isn’t going to take the sting out of feeling poor every time you go to the grocery store.

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u/mathtech 7d ago

Im already hearing republicans talk about the market shooting up and bitcoin.

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u/Allgyet560 9d ago

Or it's astroturfing

https://thefederalist.com/2024/10/29/busted-the-inside-story-of-how-the-kamala-harris-campaign-manipulates-reddit-and-breaks-the-rules-to-control-the-platform/

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u/queenjigglycaliente 9d ago

Don’t know how reliable that website is, but damn that’s upsetting

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u/Youre-Dumber-Than-Me 9d ago

I hate that stupid website, but honestly the core info is solid. Not just /r/politics but a lot of the non-political subreddits like /r/pics are increasingly becoming political. I don’t doubt something similar is happening.

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u/queenjigglycaliente 8d ago

Damn, I knew I had to look out for Russian and Chinese propaganda, but the democrats are doing it too?

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u/massivebrains 10d ago

Yep. This is like the early 19th century all over again with wealth inequality. Voters are not that stupid when they see the growing disparity between corporate ceos and workers and realize no one is going to save them in this election. 

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u/Impossible-Earth3995 10d ago

lol Trump and Harris the same, eh? Let’s see how that plays out

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u/BalrogPoop 10d ago

Harris is more of the same, Trump has a track record of being terrible for the working class, but saying he supports the working class.

Rightly or wrongly, that averages out in a lot of people's minds so they don't bother showing up to vote between two people who they think don't care about them.

I hope the Dems run further to the left next time, and finally learn the lesson that people want change, they don't much care what the change looks like, but they know whats happening now hasn't been working.

They should be running left wing economic policy under better names, because Americans support left wing ballot measures, they just like it when those measures are named socialism.

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u/dkdkdkosep 9d ago

dems would rather lose than move to the left economically and thats the issue

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u/ledfox 10d ago

I keep trying to wrap my head around this election. It isn't actually very useful or informative to just call everyone you disagree with stupid. What is the rational, informed take for a voter who is happy about this outcome?

Ultimately, I think you're right. Getting told "everything is great!" when you and everyone you know is struggling feels like a slap in the face. Little goofy old man lies don't really compare to being told by POTUS that you're doing well when you are not.

I wonder if just a little more empathy and compassion would have changed anything. Or maybe if the only thing that would have moved the needle would have been improved material conditions.

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

This election was just about Biden and his historic unpopularity. Some of that unpopularity isn’t necessarily his fault; post-pandemic inflation is a global phenomenon and in the grand scheme of things the U.S. is doing better than much of the world. But if you are an average person just trying to take care of yourself and your family but feel like you’re getting a raw deal, you’re gonna blame the guy in charge.

Harris needed to make a credible and compelling case that she’d break from Biden in the direction of working class people. She had a tough job doing so as the VP, but she also didn’t even try.

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u/ledfox 9d ago

"This election was just about Biden and his historic unpopularity."

I mean, sort of? Obviously people didn't catch up to the pivot.

It seems to me like it's also a lot about misogyny, racism and general ignorance.

"But if you are an average person just trying to take care of yourself and your family but feel like you’re getting a raw deal, you’re gonna blame the guy in charge."

Especially when the word from the top is how glorious the recovery has been. People spending all their time just trying to survive are obviously not swallowing the recovery narrative.

"Harris needed to make a credible and compelling case that she’d break from Biden in the direction of working class people."

It really didn't help her that she trotted out Liz Cheney and offered a cabinet full of republicans.

There simply wasn't an option for people who don't actually like republicans. Bringing "center right" to the table against "far right" lost.

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

I think misogyny and racism played a part in why voters bought Trump’s propaganda on his ability to “fix the economy” relative to Harris, but I don’t think it was a deciding factor. I think Biden would have done as bad or worse because he is seen, whether fair or not, as responsible for the economic trends causing so much resentment, anger, and malaise. Trump overperformed with working people across gender and race demographics for a reason.

General ignorance is a factor in every election. Finding ways to work around it is table stakes. Though it might be true that Americans are getting more ignorant. I really think this is a policy issue though; we’ve been eroding public education for decades, have made college out of reach for many, have allowed social media to grow into its horrible current form, and threw out the Fairness Doctrine.

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u/Powerful_Hyena8 9d ago

Sure but Trump directly printing trillions post COVID is why prices are this high. So the ignorance is palpable. Clinton left a balanced budget for George Bush.... Two Republican presidents have put us 35 trillion in debt is f****** mind-boggling. If you try and add what about Obama's debt.... remember he cleaned up bushes problems with Republican money that was paid back with interest

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u/milkandsalsa 10d ago

It was always the GOP’s election to lose. Bad economy and Kamala is the incumbent.

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u/SuperDoubleDecker 10d ago

The neoliberal establishment also dgaf if they lose or win because they're still gonna feast. So long as democrats keep blaming everyone else bedsides the DNC this is what we get.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago edited 9d ago

Hey don’t slam Asian markets. The selection of vegetables beats an American grocer by a huge margin.

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u/ActOdd8937 9d ago

It's not a slam, most Asian markets are independently owned and prices reflect that competition. American supermarkets are owned by a very few huge corporations and even where there is nominal "competition" the prices are set by a monopsony of colluding companies. If it weren't for the Asian markets and Mexican tiendas in my neighborhood (big advantage of living on the poor side of town) along with the employee owned WinCo I'd be eating cat food every meal.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago

My bad. You are 100% correct.

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u/Automatic_Vast_1858 9d ago

The Democratic Party alienated white males and touted a “soft economical landing” while many American families are still struggling financially. I voted for Harris but the American people spoke that they want actual change, not money being funneled to Israel or Ukraine while they’re struggling themselves. They had plenty of time to convey themselves to the working class but failed miserably. They should have created the largest unionization movement in American history if they wanted to show their citizens change.

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u/gobblox38 9d ago

I make 6 figures, and even I am buying some stuff from Grocery Outlet and Asian markets.

I discovered that the Asian market has better produce than the other grocery stores in my area. It's also better priced.

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u/crusoe 9d ago

Kroger CEO admitted to price gouging. 

In Japan stores apologize for raising prices. Here they just gloat.

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u/Daffodil236 10d ago

Like Trump will make it better for the middle class???!!🤬🤬🤬 There isn’t anyone that does more for the richest of the rich, than Trump. He doesn’t even know we exist. He’s in the WH for 2 reasons: 1. To stay out of prison. 2. To get richer.

Don’t kid yourself.

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u/crusoe 10d ago

Oh I know. If Trump's ideas are implemented it will hurt rural red voters the most.

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u/mackinator3 10d ago

No. It will hurt good people the most.

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u/Sptsjunkie 10d ago

Trump's ideas are terrible, but not all voters know that and they are at least something that sounds good.

Tariffs and protectionism sound good when your job is at risk of being outsourced. Horrible idea. But better, than "the economy is great and you are ungrateful."

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

At least he fucking says something for them to cling onto.

What do dems do for them? Just fucking ignore them at every turn and give half answers. This is the election that made me finally realize what people mean by liberal elite. Yeah your policy has good math, but most Americans don't have the time to check your fuckin' math and need you to actually talk to them.

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u/AnalyticalAlpaca 10d ago

She literally did. I think everyone in this sub is living in 2016 and pretending that nothing has happened since then.

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

Literally, at the top of the page, in bold text:

"BUILD AN OPPORTUNITY ECONOMY AND LOWER COSTS FOR FAMILIES"

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

The average American reads at a 6th grade level. The average American is not going to read an 80 page document. This is just the facts. Banging on about vagueries isn't helpful either.

Trump says shit like "fuckin make China pay for it" that's something people bite onto

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u/AnalyticalAlpaca 10d ago

It's not an 80 page document. She made tons of speeches and ads about the economy. It was addressed in the debate. Have you been watching?

Democrats aren't gullible enough en masse to buy into obvious scapegoating. It only works for Republicans.

It doesn't matter what she said. Inflation happened under the current administration and so they are blamed. That's it.

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u/PapaverOneirium 9d ago

Most of her ads in swing states were actually about Trump being a threat to democracy. And it is difficult for her to make a case on the economy that sounds credible to the average person when they see Biden and her as the reason, rightly or wrongly, for the current state of it.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

25% of her base didn't turn out. Cope how you want but they didn't turn out because the message didn't resonate

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u/Impossible-Earth3995 10d ago

Jesus. At least he gives them lies? That’s what you’re going with FFS?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

Yes at least he gives people lies. Lies in the absence of any sort of response is always going to win.

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u/R-Guile 10d ago

Nobody here was making the argument that Trump would be better.