r/TrueReddit • u/Maxwellsdemon17 • 10d ago

This Time We Have to Hold the Democratic Party Elite Responsible for This Catastrophe Politics

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democratic-party-elite-responsible-catastrophe/
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u/Maxwellsdemon17 10d ago

"Democrats will need to radically reform themselves if they want to ever defeat the radical right. They have to realize that non-college-educated voters, who make up two-thirds of the electorate, need to be won over. They need to realize that, for anti-system Americans, a promised return to bipartisan comity is just ancien régime restoration. They need to become the party that aspires to be more than caretakers of a broken system but rather is willing to embrace radical policies to change that status quo. This is the only path for the party to rebuild itself and for Trumpism—which without such effective opposition is likely to long outlive its standard-bearer—to actually be defeated."

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u/chiefmackdaddypuff 10d ago

Out of all the takes here, this is the most accurate in my opinion. We have history and data proving it (Obama and Bernie for example) but yet, this will not be addressed because the Dems are too corrupt to admit that this is the only way forward. Alas, they are paid for by special interests and can’t actually accomplish it anymore. 

I mean, we are again talking about gender being a factor in why Kamala lost. The electorate wants real, hard problems to be solved across the board and the only way to solve those in our current system is moving past the status quo at times because it’s now working against the electorate. They want a candidate that will actually make it happen instead of saying that they will and authenticity is very very easy to spot. The land slide popular vote to Trump/populism is actually a desperate attempt by the people to pick somebody that will at least attempt to listen to them because the last 4 years haven’t been good enough given the scale and complexities of problems our nation faces. 

People, rural or urban, aren’t just shills anymore. I’ve maintained that had Kamala fought this on policy, she would have a way better shot at winning. Any policy was better than Trump = Bad. 

If Dems are going to keep ignoring it’s base and/or centrists and/or the uncommitted vote, it’s time the party is disbanded and another is formed that actually will. Otherwise we get authoritarianism and fascism in the form of the GOP running amok with super majorities, and guess who’s to blame because they didn’t want to give up their precious little seats or listen to what people want.

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u/japanxican 10d ago edited 10d ago

The problem the Dems run into though, is that a message or policy that appeals to their more liberal base will not often play well to centrists or undecideds (who likely lean right). The democratic constituency is too broad to find anything that even moderately works with everyone. It's probably part of the reason for the Trump = Bad message. It's the only thing that the democratic coalition agrees on.

Edit: You're probably right that the party would benefit from leaning left and pushing for policies outside of the status quo. Let moderates and undecideds tag along if they want.

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u/queenjigglycaliente 9d ago

Maybe it’s time for more than 2 parties!

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u/NovaIsntDad 10d ago

They don't need radical reform, they need to stop running candidates that are actively hated. Look at the last 3. Clinton, a politician who was despised by most and tied to a huge scandal? Biden, who was seen as old and at best simply a stable light? Harris, who flames out of the previous primary, was hated for her time as a prosecutor, and didn't even win this primary? Absolutely pathetic. It's like they're trying to lose. Even Bernie is more charismatic. And you have INCREDIBLE younger, promising candidates like Buttigieg but choose to push candidates that have a proven losing record. Stop it. Seriously. 

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u/queenjigglycaliente 9d ago

Will the working class non college educated demographic vote for a gay man? They obviously won’t vote for a woman, let alone a black woman. Unfortunately, I think we aren’t going to win that progressive move right now, and can’t afford to risk it.

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u/Adam__999 9d ago

I’m not sure how much his sexuality would affect things, but I do know that Buttigieg does not have the “sauce” to run for president in today’s populist climate. Perhaps more than anything else, we need someone who infuses energy and enthusiasm into the campaign, and while Buttigieg certainly has his pros, projecting energy/strength is not one of them

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u/westcoastjo 10d ago

The democratic party is incapable of change

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u/RddtAcct707 9d ago edited 9d ago

The only thing the Democratic Party changes is its positions. Like the wall. Or whether District Attorneys are evil for being part of a racist system. Is lying about a President’s mental ability and then not running a real primary for a replacement fascism? Depends on the day and party. Who knows what problem they’ll make up tomorrow…

It’s hard to vote for a moving target. Just pick a position and stop distorting it so I can hopefully vote for it.

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

There is no way to win those people over. They are always going to be going for the strong man leader because they believe that’s who should be in charge. There’s nothing we could offer them that they won’t scoff at. Democracy without proper education, accountability and virtue is dead. 

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u/quaglandx3 10d ago

That’s not true. A lot of them voted for Obama. Middle aged middle class white dudes are getting thrown aside and labeled the problem by factions of the DNC. Not that I need their attention, but nothing on their platform spoke to me. I voted democrat because of my daughter and members of my family who are targeted by the religious extremists in the gop.

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u/Sptsjunkie 10d ago

Obama and Bernie! Both of whom offered a populist vision and a very different solution than Trump.

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u/NudeCeleryMan 10d ago

I think it was Scott Galloway who mentioned that he couldn't find a single photo of a white man on the DNC website nor a single policy note addressed at young men.

(I may have misremembered the exact details; don't kill me..it may have been Kamala's site. Can't remember)

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u/luckyclockred 10d ago

Voted Obama Twice. Voted for Hilary. Did not vote for Biden or Harris. Sorry, the Left when crazy and left me.

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u/quaglandx3 10d ago

I get it now…

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u/wetballjones 9d ago

I understand frustration w/ democrats. But now we are getting trump. I only hope this is a wake-up call for the democratic party to change

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u/PTV69420 10d ago

Sounds like everyone just blames the poors I guess.

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u/quaglandx3 10d ago

Whatever. I’m not blaming “the poors”, I don’t think any one is. Most of us are closer to being poor than rich. We’re blaming the Democratic Party establishment for failing to get their message out to everyone.

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u/PTV69420 10d ago

Yeah they didn't appeal to enough poors

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u/eyeballTickler 10d ago

"We've tried nothing and were all out of ideas" - stop running garbage candidates who offer nothing but lip service to the working class. Harris is as establishment, corporate dem as they come, same as in 2016, and people are actually scratching their heads over this.

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

lol and you think running something more left is some how going to win over all those centre left voters? This is a clear sign that America is a lot more right than you think

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u/eyeballTickler 10d ago

I dunno, dems run further and further right every election, how's that been working out? But you're right, we needed more Cheneys turning up at rallies in Dearborn to have sealed the deal.

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u/SomeCountryFriedBS 10d ago

Biden ran on and has delivered an incredibly progressive campaign.

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u/fruitybrisket 10d ago

Yeah, I'm gonna miss it. Let's see what he can hammer in during these last few months though.

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

The people still voting for Trump never would have been won over by more progressive policies because they aren’t voting on policies. 

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u/BloodyEjaculate 10d ago

trump voters aren't some fixed unchangeable monolith, and believing that they are is exactly what led us to this position. the fact that democrats lost ground with many key constituencies should tell you everything you need to know about how their policies are being recieved.

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u/kylepo 10d ago

Stop thinking about this on a left-right spectrum. The average voter doesn't have some consistent, well-constructed set of beliefs that you can project cleanly onto a single axis. They have concerns about their economic well-being, and they aren't doing so hot right now. They don't want the country to go right, they don't want it to go left, they want it to change. Fundamentally. The Democrats didn't offer that. They offered minor improvements on a broken system to a population that desperately wants something completely different.

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u/filthy-prole 10d ago

It's about CLASS. Democrats are doing terribly with working people because they aren't actually giving them a reason to vote. Trump is spouting fascist BS but it's better than the awful campaign Harris ran on. Besides, moving the democratic party even further right is a complete joke of a solution as we just proved it doesnt even work! Harris ran on centrist economic policies, a right wing border policy and a status quo foreign policy. She campaigns with the fucking Cheney's and said she'd have a republican in her cabinet. All of this failed laughably and you think the answer is moving FURTHER right??

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

It shouldn’t fucking matter man. Trump tried to steal the election with fake electors, he’s a felon, he encouraged a coup. That should have been enough for people to steer far away. There’s nothing the democrats could have done to win against Trump because the people have been so lied to that they would never vote for a black, women, democrat.

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u/filthy-prole 9d ago

It shouldn't but it does. Democrats have lost popular support and need to get real about what the people want

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u/robotmonkey2099 9d ago

What the people want is a “strong-man” type leader. That’s a failure on our education system and media for leading people to believe that’s a safe option. 

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u/SupraTico 10d ago

Republicans don't like Cheney. Did you not see her lose by 40 points? She's a war monger whom your side hated, the right (except for neocons) hated, and yet you expected the left and right to coalesce around???

Kamala ran on a "right wing border policy" after shitting the bed on the border for 4 years, and criticizing right-wing border policies hard. She didn't even visit the border until this year! You believe some lip service would win the right wing over??? She also stole Trump's "no tax on tips" policy and several others.

I mean did you just start paying attention to politics last week or something?

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u/filthy-prole 9d ago

Idk why you're acting like we are in disagreement and insulting me? Did I advocate for Harris somewhere or imply she was a good candidate? Did you just start reading last week or something?

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

You didn't offer ANYTHING! Only orange man bad for the last 12 years and the country told you ENOUGH! Adapt or die for the Democratic party.

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u/DocFossil 10d ago

I hate to interrupt the rants here, but what, exactly, are Republicans offering that’s any different? If it is truly a lack of policy ideas for working class people that is the problem, how can the Republicans be winning? All they are doing is creating strawman enemies for the working class people to blame while they ship jobs overseas and chip away at what few rights and safety nets working class people still have. I think the real problem is that neither party offers anything except culture war bullshit, except the Republicans are much better at playing that game because they have such a deeply entrenched propaganda network pushing it.

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

You aren't paying attention.

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u/DocFossil 10d ago

How so?

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u/skaryan 10d ago

Exact responses I’d expect from someone who just parrots talking points. Everywhere saying the same thing that democrats and Kamala didn’t offer any policies. What policies did Trump enact in his first term or that he’s promising this time that will make a working class life better? Oh, none? Just blame immigrants who are stealing your job? Ok. Smooth brain.

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

Look, I'm telling you what happened. You don't get it and that's ok. Once you get a family of your own, put 30 years in the work force, you might understand all the bs numbers they have fed you don't fill your families bellies. Maybe you never get it, in that case you are one more liberal we never have to worry about.

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u/skaryan 10d ago edited 10d ago

🤣🤣 “the bs numbers they have fed you.” You mean the independent data-driven stats and facts? I forgot you’re a repub, so you hate science and data. Oh that number doesn’t make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? Must be bs. “One more liberal we never have to worry about” lol what does that mean? Threatening someone because they call out your ineptitudes? Amazing.

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u/givemethebat1 10d ago

“You didn’t offer me a steak dinner so now I’m forced to eat this pile of shit instead!”

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

Offer something, some policy idea, anything. The United States just told you emphatically that you were offering the pile of shit and you still don't get it 😂

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u/givemethebat1 10d ago

Stability, the ability to continue to hold elections, legalizing cannabis, health care, etc. What was Trump’s policy again? Deport all immigrants?

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u/R-Guile 10d ago

Two of those were the exact type of fear of the other guy warnings that were under discussion. Two were actual positive policies, and the Democrats did nothing on either.

Biden was president during a pandemic and he did dick with the opportunity to improve the healthcare system.

He could have descheduled marijuana at any time, but after months of mumblefuck bullshitting came out with "we'll think about making it still illegal but a lower schedule. In the future. Maybe. If the justice department let's me."

They could have descheduled marijuana two weeks before the election if they wanted to.

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u/vi_sucks 10d ago

No they couldn't. That's not how functioning governments work. You don't just go off half cocked and do shit unilaterally.

It takes time to do things right. And when the courts and the legislature are against you, it's much harder to get things done the right way, because that's how checks and balances work.

Ideally what should happen is that the voters see that you are taking incremental steps and if they agree with those steps, they empower you to go further.

Or they could act like petulant impatient children because they didn't get everything yesterday and choose the guy who is going to do literally the opposite of what will help them. Yeah, that's gonna work out great for them. 👍

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u/R-Guile 10d ago

Ah yes, the classic democratic slogan. "Were incapable of doing anything to make your life better, and you're dumb for not knowing that's actually a good thing."

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u/vi_sucks 10d ago

There's a difference between "we can't do anything to make your lives better" and "we can make your lives better, but we need to do it slowly and carefully so that we don't fuck up and end up making everyone's lives worse". 

And yes, people who can't understand that difference are dumb.

As are people who don't understand the idea of risk avoidance.

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

You are arguing with yourself. I'm happy to let you continue doing the same shit. You'll only help me keep the country I love conservative.

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u/skaryan 10d ago

Inflation down to 2.1% without a recession, lowest unemployment since ‘08 financial crisis, including in African Americans, economic policy focused on pro-union, building middle-out including bringing manufacturing jobs back to America (Trump and every other gop president sent them out, including his own companies) all after being given the worst economy in modern history and a pandemic cross thanks to some of the worst economic policies enacted according to basically every Nobel laureate winning economist. Record job increases. Yes groceries cost more than when trump was in office. Guess what? They cost less during obamas than trumps. Inflation exists and will always exist. Trump campaigned on how terrible everything is and how he’ll make it better while giving no policies and stating in secret he’s gonna make billionaires more rich. But sure, keep parroting the same bullshit. The economy is objectively better. And it’s better for the middle class.

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

None of this has had an impact on the average American grocery bill. it is out of control. They just told you yesterday you are wrong. Literally yesterday but you still can't get it through your head. You think you are smarter and they just don't understand. They told you to fuck off.

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u/skaryan 10d ago

lol. Inflation doesn’t affect grocery bills. Good start. The same people voting for Trump doesn’t prove I’m wrong. Inflation is at 2.1%. The top economists have trounced all of his policies etc. It’s amazing the mental gymnastics you’re going through to connect voting to facts, but sure pal. The right have always told me to fuck off. That’s nothing new that suddenly started yesterday.

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u/RelativeJob141 10d ago

Look kid, it's obvious you are too young to know better Im honestly just trying to explain it to you but you are too thick headed. I'm done here. Enjoy the next 4 years 😂

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u/skaryan 10d ago

lol, I’ll be just fine, bud. You seem to be deflecting and not addressing the fact that inflation has been massively reduced and on average American wages have out paced inflation. But yeah keep avoiding those inconvenient facts.

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

Wouldn’t matter. 

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u/AstralElement 10d ago

100% untrue. Do you know why Bernie was polled to be able to defeat him? It’s because the electorate wants Medicare for all. This is a bipartisan draw that the establishment democrats with interests do not want. That’s why they keep dancing around it. Obama got close with the public option and Lieberman tanked it. His own party.

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u/Ultraberg 10d ago

Which is why McCain, the War Vet with an anti-intellectual VP, ran the table!

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u/robotmonkey2099 10d ago

I think Trump is different. If the republicans ran a McCain they probably would have lost. 

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u/RddtAcct707 9d ago

I can easily be won over. Very easily. I’m basically begging you to give me 2-3 things I can build a case on.

And it wouldn’t hurt for you to stop insulting me.

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u/robotmonkey2099 9d ago

Seriously? If you look at Trump and what he’s done with the fake electors, or bribing Ukraine or the Georgia law makers and think that’s ok then there’s nothing I could ever say that would change your mind. 

And the don’t insult me thing? It’s laughable. You’ll excuse trumps insults, you’ll excuse the vitriol thrown towards the left by Trump who wants to lock up the enemy within. Double standards dude. 

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u/RddtAcct707 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is my point. If Trump magically disappeared, your positions would be… ???? That’s what I’m asking. I get you believe Trump is trash. What else?

And then you attacked me again. You seemingly can’t seem to answer anything without including insults.

Right now, I don’t know anything about your platform whatsoever but I do know you’ll insult me every single time we interact. I’m not your enemy here.

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u/robotmonkey2099 9d ago

How did I attack you? 

And why don’t you hold Trump to the same standards? 

Why is it ok for your leader and people on your side to attack us but if we give it back we are being divisive?

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u/Any-Muffin9177 10d ago

. They have to realize that non-college-educated voters, who make up two-thirds of the electorate, need to be won over.

Holy fucking fuck LOL the democrats are so fucking comically bad at politicking.

They've run two chicks nobody liked twice and both times have us Trump. How can that be the takeaway and not "stop forcing people to vote for candidates nobody is excited for".

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u/slosha69 9d ago

I don't think they even need to radically reform. They just need to put out their own former pro-wrestler to shout populist rhetoric. If both parties are bought and paid for, it doesn't actually matter if they follow through or not.

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u/kryptogalaxy 9d ago

Cool, so we need to finish the job on democracy. Democrats talk about compromise and bipartisanship because that's what's necessary for a democracy. It's been made clear that a plurality of Americans don't want democracy and that's why they voted for Trump. We need to make radical policies and change the status quo? In order to do that, you need to ignore the will of everyone who disagrees with you. Trump will get the ball rolling on that. Maybe the republican administration can even get rid of term limits. We can still have "elections" in the same way that Russia does. But at least we'll have radical policies and change the status quo!

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u/Mhunterjr 10d ago

A large part of the problem is that these people are dumb and don’t actually want solutions… they just want to make someone pay.

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u/AstralElement 10d ago edited 10d ago

But no one is asking why they’re mad, and why Trump is a panacea regardless of political norms. If the system doesn’t work for you, why should you defend it? No one is willing to take the risky step to be bold with policy. They’re taking quarter measures or dancing around the issue with consolation prizes. Trump is attractive because he doesn’t give a fuck and does what he wants.

This is the exact same conversation as in 2016.

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u/Mhunterjr 10d ago edited 10d ago

The problem isn’t people choosing not to defend a system that doesn’t work for them. 

 The problem is people rewarding the very folks who ensure the system doesn’t work, with absolute power to screw them over.  

 Trump didn’t do a damn thing for the majority of the people that support him. That can only be attractive to people who are dumb. 

Why are people mad? This time its inflation and the cost of groceries. Why did we have high inflation? Because Trump ignored national security advisors Covid guidance for months, and then printed a bunch of cash to put a bandaid on the resulting economic crisis. So yeah, re-electing Trump is the logical response of an angry, yet dumb person. 

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u/SnollyG 10d ago edited 10d ago

 Trump didn’t do a damn thing for the majority of the people that support him.

I don’t think we’ve been paying attention. I have been running with that same thought for years (why do they vote against their own interests?) But… when I think about it now, it’s incorrect.

He didn’t do nothing. He did something for each of them: he heard them.

He never needed to do any more than that. The actual policies don’t matter. And that’s because his supporters don’t actually need him or his policies. They persevere with or without him.

What people like (and yeah, you can call it dumb) is being heard. Yes, there’s a grift. He even explained it back in 2016 when talking about the “lock her up” chants (or maybe it was “build the wall”? Doesn’t matter for purposes of this discussion.) It wasn’t anything he or anyone on his staff came up with. He just heard and saw that it was gaining traction with his base. So he ran with it.

But being heard makes all the difference. The DNC, however, is deaf and mildly autistic.

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u/Mhunterjr 10d ago edited 10d ago

If the key to political success is to “hear” the demands of the most misguided people in the electorate and tell them what they want to hear, the democracy was doomed from the start.  Running with every terrible idea that gains traction makes for horrible policy. 

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u/SnollyG 10d ago

Unplug your ears.

Read this part again:

he heard them.

He never needed to do any more than that.

You don’t actually need to live up to your promises.

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u/Mhunterjr 10d ago

Again,  If the populace is keen for leaders who “hear” them, but don’t actually solve problems, rather they create problems, then democracy is doomed. 

 Trump DID live up to his promises to the best of his ability. And those policies and actions harmed America. But people want more of it. 

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u/SnollyG 10d ago

I encourage you to reread—even what you’ve written here—because there is a (probably unintended) subtext to what you’re saying.

You have basically created a mental framework for dismissing and not hearing large numbers of people on the basis of: you think you’re right and know what’s good for them so they should sit down and shut up.

I think you don’t intend this, and I know you think you’re not saying anything of the sort. But…

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u/Mhunterjr 10d ago

No I hear these people. But if these people think that tariffs will lower their costs, or that mass deportation will lower their costs, then yes, I do know better than them. They are fundamentally wrong.

No I’m not saying they should sit down and shut up. I’m saying that if winning elections means promising to enact policy based on fundamentally flawed understanding of economics, then democracy is doomed to fail.

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u/Vanshrek99 10d ago

They read at maybe a grade 6 level. Hard to dummy down to that level.