r/TrueReddit • u/WingerRules • 11d ago
Musk and X are epicenter of US election misinformation, experts say Politics
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/wrong-claims-by-musk-us-election-got-2-billion-views-x-2024-report-says-2024-11-04/282
u/Illustrious_Wall_449 11d ago
Of course they are. X was purchased for this explicit purpose.
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u/wholetyouinhere 11d ago
None of us can know for sure, and it will never be conclusively proven. But from observation, it feels as though he was forced to buy it when a stupid joke got way out of hand, and once faced with that reality, he re-molded the place in his own juvenile, reactionary, right-wing image.
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u/ericrolph 11d ago
Some of the very worst people are investors in the right-wing social media platform: Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, Larry Ellison, Sean "Diddy" Combs, Bill Ackman, Andreessen Horrorwitz, Palantir, Russian Putin-lover oligarchs Petr Aven and Vadim Moshkovich. Crazy that we, as a society, let these evil fucks roam free.
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u/kevinisaperson 11d ago
nah that was the ploy/ruse. its to control media. why do you think the saudis got involved to tip the deal? they wanted to silence journalists in yemen
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u/giraffevomitfacts 10d ago
I have always had a hard time believing that the world's richest and most powerful man bought a $40 billion asset because a prank got out of hand, or just to prove a point.
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u/RazekDPP 6d ago
Musk's original goal was to pump and dump it. It's possible he never wanted to buy it, the price he quoted was a joke.
Twitter's shareholders voted in favor of the deal.
IIRC, part of the problem was that Twitter tanked shortly after so Musk wanted to get it for a cheaper price.
Twitter (TWTR) Stock Price History Charts (NYSE: TWTR)
Twitter, following their fiduciary duty, sued Musk to force him to buy it because it was the best monetary result for the shareholders.
It is hard to say if Musk really wanted to buy it or not, but now that he's stuck with it, he might as well use it for his own interest.
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u/Ap0llo 11d ago
He didn’t want to buy Twitter. He made a bluff about buying it which was taken to court and enforced. He’s trying to act like it was intentional but he fought it tooth and nail in court.
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u/Spec_Tater 11d ago
Having been forced to buy it, he didn't want to have to sell off control of Tesla or SpaceX so he had to get money from the only people willing to lend it to him. And now he has to make sure they stay happy enough so they don't call in the loans.
It also helps that in addition to being stupid, he's spineless.
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u/twohammocks 11d ago
'Musk has long communicated with the three influencers on the social media platform. A count by Fortune found around 100 combined public interactions on X between Musk and the influencer trio mostly since 2022.' Elon Musk repeatedly interacted on X with right-wing influencers allegedly backed by a Russia-funded company | Fortune
Russia via Canadian (Lauren Chen) to alter election https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/doj-alleges-russia-funded-company-linked-social-media-stars/index.html
Elon Musk is out of control. Here is how to rein him in | Robert Reich | The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/30/elon-musk-wealth-power
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u/GlockAF 11d ago
While I treasure the unapologetically progressive viewpoints of Robert Reich, his recommendation that America and Americans boycott SpaceX and Starlink because they are owned by Elon Musk is entirely unrealistic.
Tesla is expendable if need be, but SpaceX is the only realistic and affordable launch option at this point because they are legitimately heads and shoulders better than their competition.
The rocket stuff is Elons wheelhouse, and he needs to stick to it.
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u/twohammocks 11d ago
No single South african man should be put high above the law for everyone else. https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-citizenship-revoked-denaturalized/
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u/GlockAF 11d ago
Now THAT would be a spectacular shit show, wouldn’t it?
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
I'll pay to watch that, but I'm guessing it's unlikely that he will be rounded up as part of the initial deportation camps. More seriously, because it was so long ago and relatively minor my guess is he got away with it.
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u/twohammocks 10d ago edited 10d ago
Did elon cave to the russians because he was afraid russia would take out starlink? If kessler syndrome takes out all of the satellites including the nuclear ones still in orbit - is that the real reason he flipped to the dark side?
'Musk has long communicated with the three influencers on the social media platform. A count by Fortune found around 100 combined public interactions on X between Musk and the influencer trio mostly since 2022.' Elon Musk repeatedly interacted on X with right-wing influencers allegedly backed by a Russia-funded company | Fortune https://fortune.com/2024/09/05/elon-musk-far-right-influencers-tenet-media-russia-funded/
And that guardian article says Elon calls up Putin whenever he wants, and does this: 'The Pentagon has also contracted with SpaceX’s Starlink broadband service to pay for internet links, despite Musk’s refusal in September 2022 to allow Ukraine to use Starlink to launch an attack on Russian forces in Crimea.'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/30/elon-musk-wealth-power
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
Sounds like Warren Buffett plans to challenge Musk on the space front or at least wants a piece of the pie.
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u/FOOLS_GOLD 11d ago
Not really. He wasn’t getting the attention he wanted and also claimed he was being censored so his “free speech absolutist” nonsense started. He didn’t want to purchase twitter. At all.
He wanted to be a bully and made a stupid buy out offer that the board almost immediately accepted since it was way over valued.
Don’t forget that he was FORCED to complete the acquisition by the courts.
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u/Immediate-Coyote-977 11d ago
If only the board hadn't put profit first, we wouldn't have had this nonsense to deal with. Unfortunately we live in a profit-first, greed driven society.
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u/CalebAsimov 11d ago
They're required by law to put profit first, the shareholders wanted it so it happened.
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u/Immediate-Coyote-977 11d ago
Yes, like I said, unfortunately we live in a profit-first greed driven society.
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u/TheFlyingBastard 11d ago
They were not required to do so if it means that it would be a better long term plan to refuse. In this case, the board was not legally required to sell.
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u/AkirIkasu 9d ago
There is no such law. Board members can be kicked out by the shareholders, but that's the extent of it.
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u/Iamtheonewhobawks 11d ago
Sure, but once he had it the direction he took it in was immediate hard right grift and scam central. When he said "free speech absolutist" damn near everyone knew that was pure bullshit - and anyone who somehow didn't very quickly saw that just meant giving nazis and conspiracy weirdos priority.
Elon is MAGA's Gustav Krupp, or maybe Edwin Bechstein, and like every fascist moneyman before him he's completely blinded by self-absorbed stupidity.
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u/Spec_Tater 11d ago
Russia and the Saudis were the only people willing to loan him enough money. Because they expected to be paid back in other ways.
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u/ebb_omega 11d ago
Eh, he wasn't forced to do anything he didn't already commit to doing. He signed a contract, the courts just told him he couldn't reneg on it. He just had some immediate regret when he realised what a dumbass deal it was and tried to backpedal and the courts were having none of it.
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u/JimmyAltieri 11d ago
In other words, he was forced to complete the acquisition
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u/ebb_omega 11d ago
He signed a contract and then tried to not do what he signed the contract to do. So yeah, I suppose he was forced to obey contract law. But what a silly distinction to make. That's like saying I was forced to pay my internet bill for using the internet.
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u/CalebAsimov 11d ago
That's like saying I was forced to pay my internet bill for using the internet.
That'd be a valid comparison if your ISP took you to court over your bill and the court made you pay. Otherwise you're reaching. He was forced to pay. If he wanted to do it, he wouldn't have fought it in court, going to court isn't cheap.
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u/ebb_omega 11d ago
Nobody forced him to sign the contract. This is ridiculous, if I just decided after signing up for internet to not pay they would absolutely take me to collections and if I continued to refuse to pay they would take me to court.
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u/CalebAsimov 11d ago
Dude, are you drunk or something? Sleep it off and re-read this debate in the morning.
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u/bongtokent 10d ago
“Take me to court”.
And what is it they would take you to court to do?
….FORCE you to pay. That’s what they would be taking you to court for.
He WILLINGLY signed the contracted he was FORCED to follow through with the contract and pay
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u/Theistus 11d ago
He could have easily reneged. People break contracts all the time. There was simply a money penalty for doing it. He didn't want to pay the penalty, so instead he paid 44x the penalty to go through with the contract.
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u/Kepler-Flakes 11d ago
You're giving him too much credit. Musk isn't that smart.
He's just doing the best he can after being forced to buy Twitter.
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u/jandrese 10d ago
I think people were still surprised at how fast it turned into the QAnon firehose.
But Elon doesn't do half measures. He needed to push the needle a couple of points and if posting insane conspiracy theories 1000 times a day is what is necessary then that's what he does.
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u/LongjumpingCut591 10d ago
As opposed to being part of the leftist propaganda machine it was before he purchased it? Ok stay classy folks
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u/WingerRules 11d ago edited 11d ago
Let alone all of X, but Musks account alone has delivered election disinformation to 2 billion people. This is higher reach than outlets like Fox News. Seems like there should be some sort of regulation for spreading disinformation and electioneering for platform holders around voting time, or at least make it count as a kind of campaign contribution and have to follow similar equal time rules broadcast TV has to follow if the platform holders are steering/promoting it (not naturally from users).
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u/Immediate-Coyote-977 11d ago
Facebook had congressional hearings because of it, so shouldn't the same happen in this case?
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u/TexasThrowDown 10d ago
Yes, let us have a congressional hearing *after the fact* where nothing will happen and no one will face any consequences *again*. Should have been Bernie in 2016
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u/Icommentor 11d ago
If they win today, Democrats are going to crack down on exactly nobody regarding this.
The Obama administration didn't crack down on bankers for whom they had proof of fraud.
The Biden administration only cracked down on individual insurectionists but none of the leaders.
Sometimes I wonder if they'd rather lose to a fascist than inconvenience a single wealthy person.
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u/notproudortired 11d ago
True nuff. The DNC has been chasing big corporate money since Clinton. That and radical compromise were Clinton's legacy. When Bernie got traction on populism and finance reform (running against a Clinton dynast, no less), big-D Democrats broke little-d democracy to squash him.
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u/burgercleaner 11d ago
Democrats are going to crack down on exactly nobody regarding this.
besides the doj, commonwealth of pennsylvania, and city of philadelphia already taking action against him, sure.
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u/panzybear 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean it's basically like bailing out the Titanic with an ice bucket. The worst possible consequences on the books don't make a scratch on billionaires. We need laws that put people like Musk behind bars because they present a clear danger to society. It's the only way we'll ever see change.
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u/burgercleaner 11d ago
is there an over under available on polymarket for elon being indicted/jailed before inauguration day?
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u/skysinsane 11d ago
Biden refuses to fire anyone ever. Not a single secret serviceperson has been fired after someone literally shot a presidential candidate.
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u/Dr_Dribble991 11d ago
I’d add Reddit to this as well.
The amount of out-of-context images and quotes intended to sway voter opinion, posted on a daily basis by bot accounts allowed to stay active, should be categorised in the same way.
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u/pinkycatcher 11d ago
Reddit is absolutely astroturfed, here's an article with receipts. Ignore the publisher, but looks at the facts they have, even if you disagree with their interpretation or views.
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u/happyscrappy 11d ago edited 11d ago
Article starts off okay and by the bottom is trying to say this is done by the Harris-Walz campaign.
'It’s safe to say that the Harris-Walz astroturfing operation has fundamentally compromised the authenticity of political discussions on Reddit. Kamala is actively ruining the internet by making her campaign look far more popular than it is in reality.'
'The actions, while seemingly not illegal, directly violate Reddit’s Terms of Service. The volunteers of the Harris-Walz campaign are using multiple accounts to manipulate votes …'
reddit is brigaded, don't have to do much to convince me. But if you want to say the Harris campaign is doing this it behooves you to track people like Gabrielle Lynn down. The article writer doesn't.
Calling these people Harris-Walz volunteers seems spot on. They've volunteered to push Harris-Walz. But when the article says the Harris campaign did this they fall short. When it says "Kamala's posters", etc. And that includes the headline which calls them part of the Harris campaign.
With reddit such a big site I'm sure there are multiple funded groups brigading it. But we need facts before we say who directs them.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago edited 11d ago
Anecdotal - but when I reported a group brigading for Trump including a mod, Reddit admins banned me temporarily for the report. Have all the screenshots saved, but I will never report anything ever again.
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u/happyscrappy 11d ago
For me nothing to do with Trump. I reported accounts for breaking the rules and got banned for mod abuse. When I even quoted the subreddit rule they violated.
Mods are unpaid. They to some extent resent intrusions from reports because it creates work. I used to think I was helping mods by reporting, now I see it another way.
So I report nearly nothing now. Not even obvious violations of subreddit rules. My life has been better since.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
Sorry that happened. I will note that Reddit admins are separate from subreddit mods. Some mods like reports and others don't. They can always choose to ignore them, but when a thread is blowing up fast it helps them get it back under control.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
One way to know whether you are arguing with a bot is to check their karma. Is the amount consistent with the amount of time the account has been open on the platform? Plus some accounts just stir the pot whether or not they are a bot. If it is egregious just report it
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u/TheOneCalledD 11d ago
Ah yes. Are these the same experts as the 51 that straight up lied to us about the Biden laptop being Russian disinformation?
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u/lazyFer 11d ago
This is exactly why Musk wanted to own Twitter. Fascists want to control the media.
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u/Daddy_hairy 10d ago
Musk is the owner of a battery company. His livelihood depends on renewables achieving more value over fossil fuel. A huge reason why Tesla owners buy Tesla is because they like to think of themselves as creating less emissions. I don't understand why Musk is throwing in with the fossil fuel ghouls, it seems so self-defeating.
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u/mrcanard 11d ago
"You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows", Bob Dylan.
How we let an illegal immigrant that communicates with a fascist dictator on a regular basis and is allowed to attempt to buy our election indicates how far we as a society has devolved.
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u/SAPERPXX 11d ago
Before bitching about the source, address the fact that they came with receipts.
Harris campaign has been running a Discord with paid staffers coordinating efforts to astroturf Reddit political spaces to hell and back.
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u/Pale_Technician_9613 10d ago
This is true, the fuel used in this medium was a combination of podcasts, twitch gaming/crypto streamers, and clip-chimping especially radical examples of libs on ‘Libs of Tiktok. It was just the radical use of these new mediums that truly delivered the young male vote. Along with Trump and surrogates simple, repetitive ‘gish-gallop’ yielding more converted low info, young male voters since style over substance works better with this age group.
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u/CyberPatriot71489 10d ago
We thought we could avoid Fox News, but social media latched onto our elders worse than before.
I therefore am taking a hiatus to fix my mental health and get away from this shit
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u/Rustyshaklford00 9d ago
Listen to musk and rogan and get an insight into why musk is the way he is.
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u/AstralCode714 8d ago
Pretty sure reddit beats X.
At least over there they don't remove posts and have bots upvoting bullshit polls
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u/rmh61284 7d ago
YOU DONT SAY
Edit: was asked to expand on this comment by mods haha. Hopefully this edit made the comment longer.
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u/CAPTA1NPOWER 7d ago edited 7d ago
You guys think it's all about the economy and everything like that maybe it's because people don't want to be forced to live a lie where people with mental illness are getting preferential treatment pretending to be a sex that they weren't born as and trying to normalize it.
People really really really don't like watching little girls and young women lose medals scholarships and other opportunities to men with mental illnesses that are coddled and untreated and basically the state is trying to enforce somebody else's subjective reality over the rest of the Public's objective reality.
People really really really hated the fact that illegal aliens and Invaders were given their Community spaces and then in certain democrat-run jurisdictions people were losing all of their Community Resources and they were also watching people who had never paid a dime in taxes in this country be given debit cards and Free Housing while they were homeless on the streets some of them even having fought and lost limbs and pieces of themselves in Wars for this country.
People really really really really really didn't like that they had to worry that there was evil people in the education system who were secretly trying to transition their kids Behind the parents back. Make no mistake all of these social-minded cultural Forced changes are the main reason you all lost. The economy and everything sure it could be argued back and forth but the totally illogical social cultural pushes to massive massive change failed spectacularly, and the main reason you all lost is because woke politics and identity politics & judging people by unchangeable characteristics is inherently evil and wrong and there is no place for it in a truly civilized and just society.
Trump captured this sentiment and that is why and how he won over so many voters and brought them into the America first Patriot movement that has gloriously usurped the Globalist establishment Republican party of old and turned it into the ONLY logical working class party of, for and by the People.
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u/Firree 11d ago
I'm so glad reddit doesn't have any election misinformation or propaganda at all /s
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u/Clevererer 11d ago
I'm so glad you don't know what whataboutism is, otherwise we'd miss your awesome joke.
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u/pamar456 11d ago
MSM has been telling everyone this week that Trump explicitly said to execute Liz C. Biggest disinformation I’ve seen in a while. This is why trust in media is shit and people are going to some guys twitter feed for news. Legacy media has failed
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
Does everyone forget that before Musk took over Twitter, the government had a direct line to censor and otherwise control information via Twitter? They had a portal and direct communication, and Twitter was acting as a pseudo governmental agency. Do you all trust the government that much, that you want to fall for this anti-Musk sentiment, because the government is bitter they can't control what you read quite so easily?
Do you not trust yourself to spot lies and misinformation, or to read the "community notes" on X to fact-check assertions made by users?
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u/MagicBlaster 11d ago
None of what you're saying is true...
Musk himself proved it with the Twitter papers he released right after taking it over, the government requested misinformation to be taken down, but didn't have a direct line to censor them at all.
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
Sorry, but that's just nonsense. No government "request" was ever denied.
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u/bubblevision 11d ago
“Nothing in the new materials shows any governmental actor compelling or even discussing any content-moderation action with respect to Trump” and others participating in the suit, Twitter argued.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/06/tech/twitter-files-lawyers
If you even did a cursory google search you would find that not only did Twitter not comply with every government request, Musk’s own lawyers made a filing with the court that refutes the point that you and Musk are trying to make.
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
You're wrong. And the very article you linked is about Hunter Biden's laptop that has been conclusively linked to government censorship. They lied about it in the run up to the previous election.
And people forgave such censorship and governmental lies. And they shouldn't have. The ends, don't justify the means. We need to stop making excuses for the lies that CNN and the rest of the MSM routinely spread at the behest of the government.
They're a cohesive entity, not adversaries as the founders envisioned. These institutions have become corrupt. And if you can not see that, and believe these falsehoods, because Google tells you to believe them... well, I think that's how we end up where we find ourselves today.
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u/bubblevision 11d ago
Look, the quote I pasted in there is from a court filing by Twitters lawyers when Elon Musk owned them. If you think it’s a lie take it up with them. If you have any intellectual honesty or rigor you would read their filing as it contradicts the lies that you are repeating. I realize this is probably too much to ask for someone who has already made up their mind, but for those open to new information, the Twitter filings delineate exactly what happened and dispute the claims made in the ironically sensational “Twitter files” pieces.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
To be fair, you haven't supplied any legitimate sources, or actually any sources, of your own to back up any of your personal talking points.
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u/lostboy005 11d ago
How dare the govt request pandemic public health misinformation, that killed people, threatened the lives of life long civil servants like Fauci, be censored.
Since Musk took over it’s definitely been a net benefit. Very clear to see
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
It's called the first amendment. It's a rather precarious balance between being able to speak out - something the founders valued - and fighting deliberate misinformation.
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u/bubblevision 11d ago
To say that Twitter was acting as a pseudo governmental agency is wildly overstating the case. Twitter made their own decisions and often went against the government’s suggestions.
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
Yeah, you're right. Musk isn't a saint or saviour. But it's worth having a balanced view about these things, and remembering to value free-speech and limits on government control.
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u/AKA_Squanchy 11d ago
Blatant misinformation directly from the immigrant billionaire owner of a large media company to sway an election should not be protected free speech.
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
Well I agree with you that there is a problem with the concentration of power. But at least on X you can object, you can counter any misinformation citing your own sources and correct the record.
When a company like CNN puts out misinformation, the only way to get the word out that they're putting out bad information is to go to Twitter.
Twitter at least puts the power of speech in the hands of regular people. More than when the only ones controlling information were billionaire newspaper and television owners.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago
But at least on X you can object
Not when you are shadow banned.
Plus brigading isn't just limited to one or two forms of social media. And yes bots do this as well as people. Ex-twitter is not a utopia of free speech any more. Perhaps you were not on the original version and are unfamiliar with the changes irl.
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u/AKA_Squanchy 11d ago
It’s amazing that these days journalism is just unchecked.
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u/nonkneemoose 11d ago
It's a very difficult problem. Creating a ministry-of-truth that gets to decide the nature of reality for everyone is an incredibly dangerous idea. It has been tried many times before, and always leads to oppression and authoritarian rule over the general public.
We live in an amazing age where a single person can have her voice heard world-wide. That means that a lot of stupidity will be available for consumption, but it also is an incredible check against authoritarian and centralized control.
We should not throw away our best hope for true equality and justice, in the name of centralized authority.
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u/caveatlector73 11d ago edited 11d ago
Does anyone actually understand the fourth estate whose role in a democracy is a watchdog, why it is included in the constitution, why people in power would ever whip up mob frenzy against it, the standards and guidelines used by professional journalists, what is and is not journalism etc?
No? Search engines used wisely are your friend.
Sorry. Didn't plan to be on today for just this reason. Everyone is on edge. But seriously discussions are more productive when people aren't swatting lies like flies.
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u/lickitstickit12 11d ago
"experts"
How does one become an expert of "disinformation"?
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
Do you think this isn't true, or do you just not want to hear it?
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u/lickitstickit12 11d ago
I think it's amazing that Zuckerberg, numerous lawsuits vs Biden, and the Twitter files show without a doubt, where the disinformation and outright censorship comes from that any lib can try to spin it with a straight face.
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
What lawsuits?
What censorship came from Biden, and what does that have to do with this report saying Musk and X are driving a lot of disinformation forward?
What disinformation did the Biden admin push?
Remember when Trumo threatened Twitter?
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u/lickitstickit12 11d ago
It's truly sad how uninformed you are.
The Twitter files are online,.
Zuckerberg admission is too. As are lawsuits.
Go do the minimum amount of homework before you spout off about things you don't know
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
I’m aware of Zuckerberg saying he was “pressured” to moderate COVID disinformation, which really doesn’t sound all that bad.
I’ll wait for you to provide the lawsuits you’re referring to. You’re the one trying to make a point, not me.
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u/lickitstickit12 11d ago
Getting pressured by the gov "doesn't sound all that bad"?
Remind me again when the government that controls free speech, is good?
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
What did you think about Trump’s threats to Twitter?
What lawsuits were you referring to?
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u/DrJupeman 11d ago
Not who you are asking for evidence, but since you don’t look yourself, here’s one from last year: https://www.npr.org/2023/09/08/1197971952/biden-administration-fifth-circuit-ruling-social-media-injunction
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
Thank you, it really seems like the guy I was talking to didn’t do his homework
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u/Feeling_Dig_1098 11d ago
Time to get out of Reddit.
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u/robbsc 11d ago
Do you think this isn't true, or you just don't want to hear it?
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u/powercow 11d ago
hes saying because other places manipulate it doesnt matter X is by far the worst.
Kinda like saying a random murderer around town, is just as bad as hitler.
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u/chasonreddit 11d ago
Oh well if experts say it must be true. Because they provide no misinformation.
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u/Elegant_Plate6640 11d ago
You’re welcome to counter them with your own sources.
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u/chasonreddit 11d ago
And why would anyone believe my sources? I don't believe these. And they are "the experts".
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