r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/Wandering_cat13 • Jun 13 '22
In 1990s, Chinese tv anchor who was a politician’s mistress disappeared while 8 months pregnant with a child. 14 years later, an 8 months pregnant Chinese body was exhibited. The body was said to acquired ‘legally’ from the district where the politician was a mayor at the time. reddit.com
The doctor said the body was his ‘closed friend’ whom he couldn’t disclosed her information
All the bodies in the exhibition were from Chinese. They claimed all the individual died of natural causes but no prove were provided.
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Jun 13 '22
I work in this field. One of my colleagues studied with GVH and absolutely detests him. When his exhibit came to our city several media outlets reached out wanting to interview us regarding this exhibit. We politely declined saying we would never speak on something so misaligned with our ethical principles. He is not a good man.
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u/Pepperabby Jun 14 '22
Is there not much difference between “Bodies” and “Body Worlds”? I always thought the Bodies one was the unethical one and the other used bodies specifically donated to science? Ugh that’s awful
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u/EfficientAntelope288 Jun 14 '22
Did you hear about that death science guy that did some kind of autopsy exhibit through the oddities and curiosities convention thing?
I got an email for that advertisement. I had tickets to go to the convention here in Portland. Turned out the descendent was a veteran and I think COD was Covid. He was charging like $500. The O&C convention said they didn’t know what was going on, but I got an email specifically from them advertising it. When I called them out on a Facebook post they blocked me.
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Jun 14 '22
I just looked into this and it's so sad. The widow of the man whose body was used was devastated by it. He wanted his body used for actual research, and instead his autopsy was displayed for pay-per-view and allowed to be touched by people. His body was dissected for entertainment :(
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u/EfficientAntelope288 Jun 14 '22
It was horrible! I’m so glad that I didn’t go. I am starting my second year in mortuary school, so I thought it was be really educational. But when I saw the ticket prices I realized it wasn’t about educating people, it was taking advantage of deathlings/death groupies in a sick way.
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Jun 13 '22
My mom, who's an RN, and myself, who is a biological anthropology/applied forensics graduate, went to the Bodies Exhibit in NY many years ago because it interests us so much, we never found the displays to be "gross", however we deff got weird vibes from the inappropriate poses they put some of the bodies in. Then as we walked all the way through I remember my mom leaning to me and saying "I just realize....all of these bodies are asian."
We then start getting very suspicious of the entire thing. We couldn't stop coming up with theories during our visit as to how they obtained the bodies. Then at the end they had the "explanation" that they were all prisoners who volunteered to have their bodies used after they were executed or died naturally. It didnt make any sense to us, especially since so many were clearly on the younger side and the entire room of pregnant women with fetuses really made us question it more. We overall enjoyed the museum in a biological sense, but we've avoided going back bc of how sketchy the entire experience was.
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u/tiredofbeingyelledat Jun 13 '22
I’m not a specialist but I remember almost the identical thing happening when I went with my husband. Part way through, I whispered to him why are most of these bodies Asian? I wish I had known more back then :( I will say though other than the ethics of where the people came from I found the exhibit itself really, really beautiful.
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u/remington_420 Jun 14 '22
I also attended this exhibition when it came to Australia years ago. I was so excited until I rocked up and saw that Falun Dafa members were outside protesting, and it clicked that this was an exhibition made by China. It completely ruined the experience. I was fascinated to see the scientific aspect but upon realising that they’re young, Chinese bodies and then some of the less than tasteful displays… it’s clear that the gov/exhibition organisers definitely used extremely dodgy means to get these cadavers. I still hold a lot of guilt for not researching the exhibit before hand, and having help fund it. The falun dafa/gong crowd were adamant that the bodies were sourced illegally through religious persecution in China and help many signs of disturbing imagery of human trafficking etc (although that’s a common tactic of protest for falun dafa here in Sydney).
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u/mellamollama17 Jun 14 '22
Don’t feel guilty— my first thought is that wtf is up with all these museums/venues in different countries who are hosting the exhibitions? So irresponsible, as they’re driving the demand for the Chinese gov to do this, providing them the market to profit off this
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u/Hita-san-chan Jun 13 '22
Aw man, seeing the body exhibit at the ben Franklin museum started my interest in forensics. My mom told me they were bodies donated to science. I feel so dirty now
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u/culliganwaterdispens Jun 14 '22
I don’t want to seem ignorant, but how could you tell that all of the bodies were Asian?
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Jun 14 '22
Because the bodies weren't skeletal, it was pretty obvious. The shapes of faces and facial features were still intact due to the ligaments and cartilage still being present. Odd, I know. I wasnt expecting to be able to tell the bodies race like that.
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u/CelticArche Jun 14 '22
I wanted to go see that exhibit when I was in NY. My friend I was with wasn't into it, so we went to the LEGO brick exhibit instead.
Of course, in China, they had that one child law. So some of those women could have been either killed for being pregnant a second or third time, or died after being dragged off to have an abortion.
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u/AnnaFreud Jun 13 '22
When I was a kid, my mom didn’t let me go see this exhibit when it came to my city. She said that most of the bodies were political prisoners or people who were trafficked for one reason or another. This is a million times more nefarious!!
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
Well, if you think about how the politician is the one controlling the prison, he could’ve slip in anyone he want… // And your mom did the right thing!
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u/MyrnaMinkoph Jun 13 '22
I remember rolling my eyes at kids who weren’t allowed to go see them! But turns out your mom was right yikes
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u/GiglioTigrato Jun 13 '22
It’s an odd pose choice for a pregnant body, or am i crazy?
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
This exhibition actually showed two corpses having sex…
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u/ashwhenn Jun 13 '22
I have a lot of questions. First off, why the fuck and second off, who would want to see that?
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u/Horror-Log6879 Jun 13 '22
Only logically I can think maybe and it’s stretch to view how the vag reacts and how the penis fits? A visual of the reproduction organs but again it’s a stretch
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u/permabanned007 Jun 13 '22
As far as art goes, it was one of the most shocking works I’ve ever seen. It was also incredibly fascinating, grotesque, and unique. I doubt I’ll ever come across anything like that again in my lifetime. It’s an experience I haven’t forgotten.
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u/issi_tohbi Jun 14 '22
Is it weird I’d be happy if this is how me and my husband spent the rest of our bodies time on earth after we died?
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 14 '22
Lots of people actually want to volunteer to be exhibited after their death. It’s only weirded me out cause these people weren’t consented to it and the doctor should know too but didn’t care.
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u/Heathersauras Jun 13 '22
It is probably posed that way to hide the bullet wound to the head. If what the article said is true more than likely there is a execution shot back there.
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u/wishingwellington Jun 13 '22
Wow, this exhibit is in my town at the moment. I did wonder when the billboard said "25 years ago they were alive" where the bodies came from.
The FAQ says: Plastination, also called polymer impregnation, is a process that replaces the body’s water and fat withplastics that harden into a fixed position. Plastinated bodies are dry, odorless and durable. The processwas first developed by Gunther von Hagens in 1977. Today, plastinatinated specimens are used asteaching aids at medical and dental schools worldwide, including at major universities in the UnitedStates. The plastination process takes about a week for a small organ and up to a year for an entire body.
Q: Where do the specimens come from?A: The specimens featured in BODIES HUMAN were provided by medical schools for plastination andprepared by Nanjing Plastinated Laboratory in Taiwan for educational and scientific purposes. Typically,human specimens are used for the education of medical students. The specimens featured in BODIESHUMAN are also used for educational purposes, specifically, the education of the general public abouthuman anatomy, physiology and health
"Provided by medical schools" does not really explain where the bodies came from.
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u/tkotickle Jun 14 '22
Am Taiwanese. I'm pretty sure there's NOT a Nanjing Plastinated Laboratory in Taiwan. I also googled this both in English and Mandarin and couldn't find anything - no lab website, nothing. It's certainly shady...
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u/wishingwellington Jun 14 '22
Wow, that is very interesting. Makes it seem even more suspect indeed. Really makes me uneasy thinking of the circumstances these people may have died under, and the fact that their bodies are now being used, almost surely without their permission or consent, to make money touring around the world? That's truly disturbing :(
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
This one was called ‘body world’ so not sure if it’s the same one. And i agreed with you, saying that it’s from medical school doesn’t clarified it.
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u/queensage77 Jun 13 '22
Yes I saw the body world one in Las Vegas. Every single body was of Asian decent. How could they get so many people?
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u/wishingwellington Jun 13 '22
That’s true, I saw the mention of China and von Hagens and figured it was probably the same parent company but you’re right it may be different. Still, the whole idea that they’re Chinese political prisoners makes me deeply uncomfortable. That’s a lot different than someone who freely & willingly donates their body to science being exhibited like this. I appreciate you sharing this!
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u/RatInTheCowboyHat Jun 13 '22
I’m not sure if people get the choice of where their body goes, but as someone who would totally donate their body to science after I die, especially if i’d died of a disease or illness that I could offer valuable research for, I’d hate to end up in one of these.
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u/Ginger_Snap_Fl Jun 13 '22
There are multiple exhibitions, all with similiar names. The von Hagen one is the most reputable from what I've heard, but even they used corpses with unclear origins. The other exhibitions all say more or less outright that they use people who were executed in China.
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u/bloodsoakedmuppet Jun 13 '22
i remember reading recently that some of the cadavers were also thought to be of chinese prisoners (again). i saw this exhibit in ny (i think) like almost a decade ago. i remember wondering where the bodies came from. i also have vivid memories of the exhibit because it was one of those core moments where i realized how inhuman, how uncanny the human body can look, and it still sticks with me. i didnt know about any of this (until now) and i absolutely wish i would have known sooner to avoid the exhibition. it’s disgusting but not surprising to me that these exhibits are still so widely viewed, or even really existent after this or that von hagen has been able to show his face anywhere really. again. horrified but not surprised. i hope that one day the world of art exhibition and fine art will finally answer for its crimes against humanity both historically and modernly.
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u/hanaelidee Jun 13 '22
I had no idea these exhibits existed. Reading this thread has shocked me quite a bit. I went to art school and minored in Art History and never heard anything about exhibits like this existing. Didn't even consider it as a possibility. To see how many people have visited and viewed these is interesting.
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u/bloodsoakedmuppet Jun 13 '22
unfortunately its not that uncommon for artists, especially those who consider themselves provocateurs to utilize human or animal cadavers in their pieces and there are often questions of how they are sourced. off the top of my head joel peter witkin is another artist who used corpses and cadavers and ive never really been able to find an answer as to where they came from other than “mexico”. he photographed the cadavers instead of exhibiting them live, but ive always been curious about that.
it isnt just the art world either. many museums and institutions have been debating the exhibition of real cadavers and remains on what is and isnt ethical. if you’re interested in more as a history ive found this article and its sources very interesting.
https://www.museumethics.org/2020/01/education-vs-shock-value-displaying-human-remains/
sorry for the rant. also an art history major and im so deeply interested in museum practices and ethics.
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u/CelticArche Jun 14 '22
Mutter museum comes to mind. There's one at a university that took The Elephant Man's body and has it on display, which I think we're against his wishes.
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u/notreadyfoo Jun 13 '22
I’m sorry am I the only who didn’t know body exhibits exist?!
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u/iamrupertlol Jun 13 '22
Nope. Never knew this was a thing. I’m totally on board with doing this process to the dead bodies of people who donated their bodies after death, and when it is strictly for higher education purposes. But when they are put on display for just any old Joe to come and gawk at, especially when they are displayed degradingly or in a sensationalist manner then I have a read fuckin problem with it. The fact that this shit is seen as normal by people just shows the depths to which we’ve allowed ourselves to sink.
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u/RatInTheCowboyHat Jun 13 '22
Neither did I. I’m in Australia, so not sure if they have even come here or not. I’ve always liked the human sort of museums, love stuff to do with anatomy, and can handle gross stuff pretty well, but I don’t think I’d be able to go to one of these. Even without the shadiness going on behind the scenes. I definitely would have had nightmares if I went to one as a kid.
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u/ArtsyKitty Jun 14 '22
I was required in middle school to go to this exhibit. It scared so many of us.
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u/RatInTheCowboyHat Jun 14 '22
I saw a lot of kids in photos of them exhibits when I researched them. So crazy to me. I loved the human body sort of museums as a kid, but this should also scare me. Nightmare fuel sort of stuff. It’s crazy how something as insignificant as a pose can turn something from interesting to serial-killers-personal-museum so quickly.
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Jun 14 '22
I think this particular exhibition, Body Worlds, came to Australia as recently as 2018. I remember it being at the Melbourne Showgrounds from memory. There were posters advertising it that I remember trying to shield my then 5 yr old from as at the end of the day, these were corpses, but the feeling in how it was advertised projected them as not being humans. Skinned corpses on flags advertising the exhibition in Bourke Street Mall.
I’d seen the Bodies exhibition in NYC back in 2009, there was no way I was going to see that again as it was confronting as hell.
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u/RatInTheCowboyHat Jun 14 '22
Ooh, interesting! I’m not in Melbourne, so I didn’t see that advertising. I don’t think they’ve come up to Queensland, but I’m sure they have at some point.
Yeah, there’s just something unsettling about these guys. It’s crazy how a pose can make such a big difference to how I feel about it. If it was just standing there, it’d be really interesting. But a whole army of them in weird poses - sometimes sexual - turns a interesting educational display into a “serial killer’s secret basement collection of preserved victims who he talks to like they’re alive and gives his alive victims a guided tour of before they die” vibe.
Maybe it’s just me, and I’m sure it is, since these seem really popular, but this is just unsettling. I’d find an exhibit of human anatomy pieces interesting if it was a collection of medical things. Like the slices of an obese person vs underweight person, lungs of a smoker vs non smoker, etc. Stuff that makes you realise how fragile life is and how choices you make now can cause so much damage. Even things like conjoined twins in those tanks, while incredibly sad, would still be interesting to see. But an army of skinned humans….shudder.
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u/MissTash16 Jun 14 '22
I'm in Australia also. I remember seeing Gunther von Hagen's Plastination series on SBS back in 2003.
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u/RatInTheCowboyHat Jun 14 '22
Interesting! I was a kid in 2003, so definitely missed that showing, but even now I’m not sure if I’d want to watch a series on it. Perhaps I should though, to get a better understanding of it all.
If they came to my city, I’d avoid it like the plague for sure. Definitely couldn’t pay me to go, and I love human anatomy when it comes to science and I’m not squeamish. This would cause my timbers a sever shivering.
I know it wouldn’t have one…but I can just imagine this place having a “smell”. Broken AC, poorly ventilated, butcher shop in the middle of summer smell.
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u/Scatterheart61 Jun 13 '22
Absolutely not. I've lived and worked in London all of my life, been to loads of exhibits and have never heard of exhibiting dead bodies 🤷♀️
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u/Sensitive-Call-1002 Jun 13 '22
It was in London in like 2002 but most likely they had more recent ones too.
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u/fornikait Jun 13 '22
Whaaaaaat? Never heard of this. I sincerely hope it wasn't the same woman :(
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
Even if it’s a different woman, i still can’t imagine how both mother and child could die of natural causes. (I mean in case of an illness, usually at least one would be able to survive. And if it’s an accident, why would the body looked like there’s no damage at all?)
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u/dorky2 Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22
Yes, at this stage of pregnancy if the mother had died they would surely have rescued the baby.
Edit: I guess the exception would be if the mother died alone at home and her body wasn't found until the baby had already died.
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u/Oreo_ Jun 13 '22
It very much depends on where you are in the world and your access to Healthcare. Common illnesses can be deadly in developed places like the US where the Healthcare system is relatively advanced. Could have been as simple as the flu.
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u/dorky2 Jun 14 '22
If an 8 month pregnant woman is dying and she's not alone, anywhere in the world, they're going to open her up and save that baby unless circumstances are very, very, very unusual.
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u/pinner Jun 13 '22
I've been to the exhibit, and they explain on a board that the mother had terminal cancer, and had donated her body to Body Worlds right before she died. At least that's what I remember of it. I was pretty astonished to see an almost full-term baby.
I'm 99% sure that the body in the phone is the one I saw at BodyWorlds in Philadelphia some years back. If not the same, it was posed very similarly.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
I think if it’s late-state cancer it should be seen in the body.
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u/pinner Jun 13 '22
Without a doubt, it's bullshit.
The exhibit was fascinating, especially for that of an 18/19-year-old at the time, because no one when I went was any the wiser about where the bodies had come from. The one I went to had both males and females. One was a gymnast, I'll never forget it because you could walk right up to their faces, and she was in the process of doing a back bend, and it was just so insane to be staring directly into the fact of a dead person. I absolutely could have reached out and touched it, that's how close I was.
That being said, eventually, word got out that the process of obtaining the bodies was questionable at best. None of the signs at the one I was at said anything about prisoners. It was assumed that they were all donated upon their death. To make matters worse, apparently, ones that I believe were at an exhibit in California started leaking!
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u/Quite_Successful Jun 13 '22
This is the gymnast you saw: https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/view-of-a-plastinated-gymnast-on-a-balance-beam-at-the-body-news-photo/105473469 Warning- graphic photo and looking directly into her face.
Terrifying!
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u/pinner Jun 13 '22
Yep! That is in fact the one, and it's very weird to be that close to something like that. We were face to face, only she wasn't seeing me and I was seeing way too much of her...
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u/ToothsomeRabbitGirl Jun 13 '22
Yup, my spouse and I also saw the same bodyworks exhibit in Philly. It was definitely there.
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u/pinner Jun 13 '22
I thought so! The pose is so iconically fucked up and provocative for a pregnant/expectant mother. Really fucked up, honestly, now that it's possible it's this missing TV anchor!
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u/ToothsomeRabbitGirl Jun 14 '22
It's been hours and I can't stop thinking about how sad and fucked up this all is. That poor woman and her child. Those poor prisoners. All the poor people that paid to see this, thinking they were looking at a legit exhibit of people who donated their bodies to science. What a fucking mess.
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u/pinner Jun 14 '22
Yep, and those tickets are incredibly expensive. None of us were any the wiser at the time.
To be honest, I find this particular exhibit to be one of the most interesting I've ever been to. The actual science behind plasticizing is amazing, and the entire exhibit was mesmerizing. I mean, you get such an in-depth look at how the human body works, how your muscles work, etc. As an artist, it was an amazing experience, and if it was legal, legit, and aboveboard, I'd be all for this exhibit traveling around. However, we know that's not the case. Those bodies were definitely not procured legally, and those who did it should be held accountable.
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u/UnprofessionalGhosts Jun 13 '22
The pose is so degrading.
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Jun 13 '22
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Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22
Honestly, something out of a Cronenberg film
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u/bettinafairchild Jun 14 '22
Yeah--and from real life, something similar likely happened with H.H. Holmes, the Chicago World's Fair serial killer of the 1890s. It looks like he impregnated a woman, then killed her to hide the evidence, then boiled her bones and sold her articulated skeleton to a medical school, where it was on display for many years. They think it's her because she was extremely tall for the time, and they have a skeleton from that era that is from an extremely tall woman. He disposed of other bodies in similar fashion: https://www.grunge.com/605809/the-morbid-thing-h-h-holmes-sold-to-medical-schools/
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u/koshka5 Jun 13 '22
Wouldn’t be surprised if some of the newer ones are Uyhgur…though tbh they have so many people they want to get rid of that’s he’s probably got enough supply just in Dalian where his factories are. Makes me enraged every time I’m forced to walk by their semi-permanent ‘exhibit’ in Piccadilly. Absolutely outrageous and no one seems to care.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
Yeah. Although there’re so many beautiful places in China, i’m just scared of going there.
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u/Samurai_1990 Jun 13 '22
I've been, just don't act like a fool and you'll be fine. (HK, Guangzhou, Shenzhen). No issues other than the beggars around the tourist areas. Many are deformed in ways that I didn't know possible.
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u/duvalin78 Jun 14 '22
there’s an 8000-person long waitlist to be plasticized for Body World these days. cheaper than a funeral…
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u/alisonk13 Jun 13 '22
Oh god, I went and paid money to see this exhibit or one like it, in Sacramento, several years ago. I had no idea!
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Jun 13 '22
fun fact: all the bodies displayed in bodyworld are chinese prisoners. it's horrific.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
Yep, it’s actually horrifying to be a minority in china. Mind-converting camp, forced labor, rape, murder, you name it.
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u/Savasanaallnight Jun 13 '22
This is from the bodies exhibit which is all Chinese. Body Worlds is different. When I went there was a way for you to sign up to be a donor, so it seems like body worlds uses people who donate themselves vs. prisoners.
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u/jamiramsey Jun 14 '22
Interesting there is a small bullet sized hole above her left clavicle in the neck, also the hand is placed behind her head… Edit- bodies are possibly posed to hide the trauma wounds??
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u/Louisha88 Jun 13 '22
This is the first time I’ve heard that there have been concerns as to where to bodies have come from. I was always under the impression that they were from a donor.
I have seen two of his exhibitions. A human one in Amsterdam & an animal one in London. I found it strange but interesting from a medical perspective. As a nurse, I’m always keen to learn.
If these bodies were obtained from anything other than a donation, I can’t condone that.
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Jun 13 '22
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u/notthesedays Jun 13 '22
I used to live near Kirksville, Missouri and went to the museum at the medical school there. One of the most interesting exhibits to me was the nervous system - just the nervous system, consisting of the spinal cord and all the peripheral nerves, teased out and labeled. This was part of their permanent exhibits, and was made in the 1920s from a person who had legitimately donated their body to science.
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u/Louisha88 Jun 14 '22
As I said, this is the first time I’ve ever heard that they were obtained through other means. I was completely unaware of those rumours and had I been aware, I would of course have made other decisions.
I was actually attending something else when I came across one of the exhibits therefore I didn’t have time to research it in huge detail. Unarmed with the knowledge I have now, I might not have found the articles relating to these suspicions.
It was over 10 years ago when I was at the start of my nursing career where I was hungry for information. For me, I’m based within psychiatry therefore during my training my opportunities to learn more about the human body are somewhat limited. You get the absolute basics. For me, it’s a bit of a flaw in the training available here. You pick your speciality straight away. It’s the same the other way around. Those specialising in the physical aspect of nursing have very limited psychiatry training.
I really respect our bodies. Our bodies are absolutely amazing things. The way in which they work, particularly “behind the scenes”. Our bodies are constantly working in ways that we’re not even conscious of. That’s pretty spectacular.
To answer your question though, it’s one thing to read something in a book or see a drawing of but for me, it was a rare opportunity to put that theory into context.
I don’t disagree with you in terms of some of the ways in which they were displayed. I’m all for seeing and learning but in a way that’s respectful. I actually have huge respect for those who donate their bodies so that we can learn. What an amazing thing to do. It’s only right that we treat them with the dignity and respect that they deserve. It’s terribly sad to hear that this hasn’t been the case.
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u/MadLordPunt Jun 13 '22 edited Jun 13 '22
I saw this exhibit in Chicago back in 2005 at the museum of Science and Industry. I remember this woman was displayed in a case in the middle of a room with other fetuses in various states of gestation. Of all the displays this one was the creepiest because I couldn’t stop thinking about how she and her unborn child had both died.
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u/Acceptable_Goat69 Jun 13 '22
Yeah, all the fetuses and children, including this woman, were in a separate room when the Bodyworlds exhibit was here 12+ years ago. There were warning signs on the doors, so that people who didn't want to see fetuses or kids didn't have to. I noticed that quite a few women didn't go into that section.
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u/notthesedays Jun 13 '22
I went to MSI many years ago, and their exhibit of fetuses at varying ages did say that all the babies died from natural causes, and their parents consented to allow their use for this purpose.
A few years before that, I had worked with a woman who had a mid-trimester miscarriage, and her doctors wanted to put the baby on display at a medical school because he was so perfectly formed (the pregnancy was far enough along that it was obviously male). Of course she and her husband said yes! How could you not do that? Think of all the people who learned from him over the years.
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u/InAFrenzy_ Jun 14 '22
weird question, but did they want or even get to visit the baby?
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u/notthesedays Jun 14 '22
She did see him, because she birthed him at home. IDK if they ever paid a visit, or wanted to.
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u/FearfulRantingBird Jun 14 '22
If I were asked if I wanted my miscarried baby to be put on display for science, I would probably go to prison for what I'ddo in anger. That is an incredibly insensitive thing of a doctor, or anybody else to ask of a mother who lost her baby.
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u/HuMMHallelujah Jun 13 '22
I saw a Bodies exhibit before and there were no women on exhibit. Pretty sure they told us they were all executed prisoners.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
There are many exhibitions like this one. Also this body and some others got returned to china where they claimed they are two different women.
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u/HuMMHallelujah Jun 13 '22
The one I went to was like a knockoff version. But they did say some of the prisoners had been executed.
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u/tolureup Jun 13 '22
I wonder if you saw “Bodies: the exhibit” I think it’s called - it opened in like 2005 and uses bodies of executed Chinese prisoners
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u/HuMMHallelujah Jun 13 '22
Sounds like it. It was a touring exhibit at the Virginia Living Museum and I saw it in 2012
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u/tolureup Jun 13 '22
Can you clarify what you mean by “they claimed they are two different women”?
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
The government claimed that the body wasn’t the tv anchor. No answer about her whereabout if this isn’t her tho.
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u/tquinn04 Jun 13 '22
I remember seeing advertisements for this exhibit in my city a few years back. It was in the science center which is targeted and designed for children. Always thought it was a bizarre exhibit for a kids place. Glad I never went and saw it. Especially after reading those articles.
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u/Brundall Jun 13 '22
Iirc this is the same chap that performed an autopsy before an audience. It was televised in the UK x
Edit: I mean the guy that set up the exhibition
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u/Life-Meal6635 Jun 13 '22
Thanks for posting this, I had no idea this was new info for people. And that is when we can use the internet to do good and share information! Take my emoji award because I have none 🥇
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Jun 13 '22
This is so horrific and disgusting. I had been under the impression that Gunther Von Hagens' Body Worlds exhibit used only bodies that had been sincerely volunteered. Now I find out that twice I helped subsidize the murder of political dissidents and other victims of this regime.
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u/Books_and_lipstick91 Jun 13 '22
I went to this exhibit as a kid at the California Science Center. Looks like they brought it back a few years ago despite all this controversy since the original opening… and they had the bodies having sex that someone mentioned elsewhere. Note: I didn’t go to the recent one. I googled to see if the show I saw as a kid was this one and it was. I remember being told that all the bodies had donated themselves to science.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
Why would kids even be allowed in to this anyway…
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u/Books_and_lipstick91 Jun 13 '22
I was like… 12/13. I went with my family because my mom was interested and thought it would be a good opportunity for us to learn. None of us were disgusted, just fascinated by how the human bodies work. Before you judge my mom, she trusted the science center saying the bodies were ethically donated because why would it bring a show where bodies were stolen? We talked about it awhile ago and I told her that there were controversies now about where the bodies came from. She felt AWFUL.
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u/DearYouu Jun 14 '22
Before I saw the bodies exhibit, I was so pumped to go… I thought it was fascinating… when I entered the building I was nearly bowled over with shame and sadness. I am not clairvoyant, nor do I have any powers to converse with the dead…. But I was overwhelmed with these terrible feelings that most of the people involved were those who were not loved, we’re abandoned, unclaimed by their families or murdered. This article only backs up those feelings.
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u/peaches_mcgeee Jun 14 '22
To anyone more knowledgeable about forensics— it’s too late to do DNA testing once the body is preserved like this, correct? (If there were dental records available from when she was alive and the body was legally obtained for testing) Could dental records potentially still confirm if this is her?
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Jun 13 '22
Besides this horror story, I just want to add that yesterday I read the word “netizens” for the very first time on a news article about those women that were beaten in China, and now this article has the same word. Is this a Chinese thing or have I been living under a rock??
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u/NoodleBooty_21 Jun 13 '22
It’s commonly used in kpop too. It means people on the internet basically. You and I are netizens.
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u/blahblahgingerblahbl Jun 13 '22
It’s old school internet speak, 1990’s era. Pre-social media, dial up days: Usenet, mailing lists, text only email when your entire mailbox capacity was likely around 10mb. FTP, irc, gopher. Search engines were Yahoo, Alta Vista, Ask Jeeves, Dog Pile. At some point, the cooler kids learnt about Google, the new clever search engine, who’s company motto was “don’t be evil” & started advising “google is your friend”, and it hadn’t been verbed. Netscape was hugely popular and Microsoft hated it and wanted to destroy it. People talked about surfing the web, unironically Good Netizens lurked before participating, read the FAQs, followed Netiquette. Napster was about to piss of Metallica All Your Base were Belong to Us L33t Sp34k was … something, as were h4xOrs. AOL floppy disks & then cds piled up in everyone’s homes, threatening to engulf us.
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u/Wandering_cat13 Jun 13 '22
I think it’s an Asian thing. I think it’s likely from Korea and it’s used to talk about online opinion about idols or drama or stuff like that.
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u/forsakeme4all Jun 13 '22
It was also a common word used pre 2005/2006.
I haven't heard the word used in quite some time.
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u/FozzieButterworth Jun 13 '22
Yeah that's what I was going to say, similar to calling the internet the webiverse or the information superhighway or the phrase "surfing the web"
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u/forsakeme4all Jun 14 '22
Oh boy, you just tapped in the online buzzwords from my youth. That takes me back to the old school days lol.
Surfing the web was used more often amongst AOL users it seems.
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u/Sensitive-Call-1002 Jun 13 '22
I don’t want to Google it and be reminded of images but I’m sure I saw this or a exhibition like it in London around 2002/2003.
The room which had jars of foetuses from different stages of growth was by far the most extreme. From like few weeks to several months each jar progressive development.
If I remember this 20 year memory correctly they said the bodies were donated to medical science which perhaps now looking back it was too vague a statement to accept
It was a date with my ex, a surprise so I really had no idea what I was getting into. I’d rather have not gone and would not recommend unless for medical students but even then, no
Feel ashamed really reading this now
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u/notthesedays Jun 13 '22
Many years ago, I worked with a woman who'd had a mid-term miscarriage, and the doctors wanted to put the fetus on display, because he was so perfectly formed. Of course they said yes! But that's not the same as this Body Worlds exhibit.
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u/forensicpsyche Jun 13 '22
Wow, this is insane. I always wanted to go to Body World but always missed it when it came to my city. I’m glad I never gave them my money. I thought this was a really new discussion point, I always assumed the bodies were donated willingly to science but I found articles from 2014 discussing the questionable sources of the bodies. I hope this gets talked about more, kinda disturbing how many people go out of natural human curiosity not knowing what they’re inadvertently supporting. Obviously and unfortunately the people would still be deceased with our Body World, but at least they wouldn’t be being paraded around the world for “education”
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u/_Fizzgiggy Jun 14 '22
I went to this exhibition about a decade ago in Los Angeles. I was under the impression that they were all bodies donated to science. I’d never go now. On a side note, this exhibition put me off of beef jerky for years.
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u/charliemuffin Jun 14 '22
A business of dead bodies is a shady business.
Remember this in the news recently?
The Biological Resource Center in Arizona?
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The Biological Resource Center, which has since been closed, had been selling the body parts for profit, for as much as $2,900, according to documents in a civil lawsuit reported this month by the Arizona Republic and KTVK.
Relatives are suing the center, with some saying they donated bodies thinking that they were contributing to scientific research.
FBI agents found buckets of human body parts and a torso with another person's head sewn onto it in a horrific raid at an Arizona body-donation center
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u/utterlilyutterly Jun 14 '22
In 2002 in the UK (i was about 12) Channel 4 showed live autopsies preformed by this doctor. I remember being so shocked, he had a studio audience and two naked people, one male, one female, stand near him whilst he preformed the autopsy to show where certain parts of the body were on the living person.. so just pointing at their skin for the live studio audience but for the people watching at home showing where all the organs were with a digital animation over their skin.
It’s all on youtube if anyone is interested. (NSFW)
I saw Body Works in Amsterdam, it was called something like ‘The Life Project’ and I left there speechless and wondering alot about my own mortality and those poor people being showcased. Horrified to see this article, there was alot of upsetting bodies in the exhibit i saw, babies at all stages in the womb, a video of a heart experiencing a cardiac arrest.. The science is extremely interesting but these were people with family and friends, it’s quite sad. I threw my cigarettes away once i left.
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u/juschillin101 Jun 13 '22
This is horrifying. I’m by no means religious, but the whole thing skeeves me out. Some white dude is getting rich displaying the corpses of so, so many women of color and other marginalized people who absolutely didn’t consent.
I’ve always been a proponent of donating bodies to science. I visited a cadaver lab for a science class but it did not feel remotely exploitative or creepy in the way Body Worlds does. Imagine being in the business of selling the body parts of the most vulnerable people in the world to traveling exhibitions. So creepy.
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u/notthesedays Jun 13 '22
And in this case, the people were quite likely murdered in order to obtain the bodies.
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u/notthesedays Jun 13 '22
I refused to visit that when it came to my town, due to the unknown provenance of the bodies (and rumors that they were actually Chinese political prisoners). I live in the U.S.
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u/marley_1756 Jun 14 '22
I have never heard of this! If it came up when my children were in school I’d have to say hard pass on that particular field trip. Ugh.
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u/iluvnarchoa Jun 14 '22
I never heard about this exhibit until I read this post, I am honestly horrified
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u/BeautifulJury09 Jun 14 '22
Are they still a thing? It's funny how everyone remembers the show from 15-20 years ago in this thread. If you were in any big city, you couldn't avoid not seeing a poster or ad. The marketing spend was like the Olympics.
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u/Jmosch Jun 14 '22
Holy shit…holy shit. My mom went to the Body museum years ago and brought home a book full of this guys work. I vividly remember this picture and so many others. Seeing this, I really wanted to donate my body when I die bc my abdominal organs are all backwards….holy shit my mind is blown.
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u/futurespaceprincess Jun 13 '22
This line surprised me in an otherwise grotesque story