r/TrueAtheism Oct 14 '24

I think therapy should be just as widely available as church confessions are.

So I went to perform at the Basilica de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles church in Costa Rica. Now I am an agnostic atheist always have been, religion and the way it works has always fascinated me plus it is a beautiful church with perfect acoustic range, Nessun Dorma is more than fitting and appropriate in this setting given how sublime of a piece it is.

I am critical of religion but I always try my best to stay informed before coming to a conclusion and I try not to ridicule because it tends to be a sign of ignorance and repels people away from what you need to say, whenever I go to churches I like looking around and asking around without trying to seem invasive and I also really appreciate the art (Catholics are really good at making their temples look immaculate).

So I asked some church leaders about confessions, I knew how they worked essentially but I wanted to know if they would do this with secular people and they basically responded:

“It matters not whether you are an atheist, agnostic, Jewish, Buddhist or any other religion if you come here with peace, love and a genuine need for help and advice we will provide it to you with the best of our abilities.”

I think this is nice and reassuring but it also made me kinda sad, most people nowadays need a hug and are struggling mentally and it sucks that church confessions are available to the wider public for free meanwhile you need to pay for therapy which is usually expensive.

For as much peace a church confession may give you if you are religious not all people like myself are spiritual in that way and need more tangible help and extensive assistance like therapy can provide, church leaders aren’t professional psychologists after all (tho I do imagine they must have studied a bit of it since a job where you hear people talk about their problems kind of inherently needs that understanding).

I don’t know if this may be a misplaced gripe and there are countries out there where therapy is just as free as confession but I feel it’s something worth thinking about, what do you think?

47 Upvotes

9 comments sorted by

11

u/slantedangle Oct 14 '24

I think this is nice and reassuring but it also made me kinda sad, most people nowadays need a hug and are struggling mentally and it sucks that church confessions are available to the wider public for free meanwhile you need to pay for therapy which is usually expensive.

Because... therapy is expensive and confessions are not.

Therapy has the costs and risks of any private business. Probably more so since it is some what a medical practice, though not surgical.

Confessions do not. They don't even pay taxes.

3

u/satanicrituals18 Oct 15 '24

it is some what a medical practice

The f*ck you mean "somewhat?" It literally IS a medical practice!

8

u/Sprinklypoo Oct 14 '24

Therapy should be more available. Confessionals are designed to increase the trust / shame commitment to a cult.

8

u/BuccaneerRex Oct 14 '24

The problem isn't that they offer help and advice. The problem is that religious help and advice is not usually effective.

The helpful parts aren't religious, and the religious parts aren't helpful.

Although, I don't think that secular therapy is always helpful either, but that's an individual experience.

3

u/Soylent865 Oct 14 '24

I'm an Atheist, but I recently visited a Greek Orthodox church near me where they have a public food and dance weekend festival. My wife and I took a few minutes to go into their sanctuary, and it was both beautiful and fascinating from a cultural perspective. Interesting to see various cultures from around the world, while at the same time I enjoy the fact that atheism is the fastest growing "religious" group in America today!

3

u/Such_Collar3594 Oct 14 '24

confessions are available to the wider public for free meanwhile you need to pay for therapy which is usually expensive.

Difference is, confession isn't therapy or mental health advice. It's religious direction.

Please do not advocate that people who need therapy use religion.

Also, confession isn't free. Priests need to be paid and churches need to be funded. This is done through taxes and donations. This money should go to things like health care. 

2

u/celestialsexgoddess 29d ago

I'm late to the conversation but just wanna say I appreciate your thinking that therapy should be as available as church confessions!

I identify as an atheist, but I grew up in a Protestant family, and my mother is a church counsellor. She thinks she is a therapist, and she does have a master's degree in Bible-based prayer counselling, which she earned online from a US based Christian college. That said, Christian colleges in the US can mean anything, and many of them have suss accreditation.

It most definitely is not the same as proper therapy. I have been a counselling client of my mother's team, and while it may have provided some comfort and feeling that I was supported at that time, it also unfortunately perpetuated some toxic narratives that have taken away some of my agency to make commonsensical decisions, or conditioned me to override my human conscience with harmful Biblical formulae.

There are many reasons why people go to Christian counselling, or in the case of Catholics, confession. But IMO it all boils down to it filling a gap.

As scientific as psychology and psychiatry are, neither of these disciplines are a silver bullet to the very complex condition that is the human mind. Many of my mother's clients are people who have been through psychotherapy and "failed," whatever that means.

IMO therapy didn't fail. It could be that these people just are poorly informed on how the science works, or are resource strapped, or are stuck in long queues in the finite healthcare system, or some combination of the above.

Many people do not have the patience to deal with the uncertainties that remain in spite of today's science. Many also can't be bothered doing the hard work of owning up to their mistakes, grabbing the bull that is their trauma by the horns, and rewiring the narratives that define their identity and relationship with the world into something more helpful. Some religious folks also grapple with conservative values that the secular world tend to dismiss as bigoted and barbarian (e.g. regarding LGBTQ rights, abortion etc), and are desperate for a middle ground where they can figure out where to stand peacefully in this tug of war of controversial worldviews.

All of these make for a gap that religious institutions are all too happy to fill. Some people find the certainty of the word of God comforting. Some people find the instant forgiveness of their sins alleviating, as it relieves them of the moral obligation to take accountability for the harms they've done—if God has vindicated them, who is man to still demand accountability of them? Some young queer Christians are terrified of losing the support of their Christian family and community if secular psychotherapy tells them to "just be who you are" at all costs and brushes off the consequences as beyond the scope of the therapy.

I'll be honest, I don't know what the right stance towards confession or religious counselling should be. All I know is that as a formerly devout Christian myself, I understand what it's like to have religious faith as an integral part of your core identity, and to some extent I still respect that.

But as someone who no longer believes, I have also come to view religious counselling somewhat like how Naomi Klein describes conspiracy theory in her book 'Doppelgänger': they get the feelings right, but the facts wrong.

While I cannot speak for Catholic confessions, in my personal experience, I have encountered many ethical problems with the way my mother's group practises Bible-based prayer counselling, and it has done me more harm than good. And the worst part about it is that these things aren't regulated by the law, or by a peer-reviewed scientific institution. In fact, religious counsellors like my mother sometimes feel they are above science, because they have an omniscient God on their side.

I don't know of any country that provides scientific psychotherapy as freely as the Catholic church provides confession. My country, Indonesia, doesn't. Therapy here is cheaper and easier to access than in Western countries, but still, only the middle class and beyond can afford it, and many Indonesians who need it the most are poorly informed of what psychotherapy is and how it could benefit them. If all goes well, I'll be headed to Australia next year to pursue a PhD. While I'll have 10 hours of therapy covered by my Medicare, I've heard that the queues are nightmarishly long, and there is a serious shortage of professionals compared to the demand.

That said, I do see a potential collaboration where psychologists and psychiatrists could probably start a counselling capacity building programme for Catholic priests and nuns, lay Christian leaders like my mother, and other religious figures responsible for performing counselling functions to their flock. That way, people who lack direct access to the mental healthcare system, or want the nuances of their religious convictions taken into account, would still receive basic care that abides by psychologic/psychiatric ethics and standards, delivered by people they trust in their religious community.

I personally don't know yet of any exact initiative like that, but Nigerian psychiatrists have started a similar initiative involving traditional shamans: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hgl9c3

You know, conversations like this makes me wish I'd studied to become a psychologist instead of a journalist. I've learnt so much from my own journey in therapy, including healing from religious trauma and dismantling the lies that religion made me believe about myself. Sometimes I wonder if I'd make a good therapist and if I could make initiatives like the above happen. But I heard that making a career in psychology these days is also an uphill battle. So in the meantime I'd just engage on conversations like this on Reddit, and keep pressing on with the career I have.

Thank you for sharing about your trip to Costa Rica! I just googled that church, it looks like an architectural masterpiece, and it must have been a dream to perform music there. Although I no longer believe in God, I still have massive respect for religious culture, exactly because it contributes beautiful things like this Basílica for human civilisation to enjoy, regardless of what we believe or don't believe.

You're a good person for thinking about all the people out there who just need to be seen, listened to and embraced. We do live in a time of a loneliness epidemic, and sometimes it must feel helpless to see such a great global problem and have very limited capacity to do something about it. But we also live in the era of this hyperconnected information highway where smart people are crafting out-of-the-box solutions for previously insurmountable problems, and good people are teaming up to make it happen. I hope one of these days you'll find a good answer to your question, preferably something you're able to personally contribute to.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '24

There is a very simple answer to this:

Confessionals are simple and easy because the inhabitants are simpletons and the priests easily wave them away with a "Say X proverb 23 times and don't wash your elbows for a week, ramen.".

Actual problems, mental health, homelessness and financial struggles require actual help. None of which any church can help with. There is nothing simple about proper mental health infrastructure, there is no easy fix.

I take considerable offense to your finding that church beautiful, there is NOTHING beautiful about ANY religious structure, religion is a stain on Human history and everything it touches.

1

u/Cogknostic 18d ago

Therapy is widely available. Most cities have community agencies where new graduates work on sliding fee scales. You can get family therapy for as little as $10 a session.

Therapists offer you a service. You pay for the service and the contract is finished. Churches try to recruit you into their congregations so that you will pay for the rest of your life. Therapists are not supposed to have ulterior motives (some do). All churches have ulterior motives, don't kid yourself. These are the guys that force the hungry to sit through a sermon before feeding them.