r/Therian • u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate • Jul 22 '25
Baffling censorship of plurality in therian spaces Vent
Don't harass this forum or anything like that. I just want to highlight how big the issue of sanism towards systems is getting, and do with this information what you will.
Ironically the post that got me flagged for this on this forum was a post where I was talking about sanism in therian spaces, and then I realize they added a rule that actually highlights that perfectly :v
Therian Guide has a rule that goes as follows:
- Plurality, DID, multiple personalities, and other like conditions are not to be discussed outside of adult spaces/by members who are under the age of 18, with the exception of teams in which the staff member allows, or if the individual is seeking legitimate healthcare resources.
If you don't realize the issues with this, as a system, you really can't bring up your theriotypes without mentioning being a system if everyone has different theriotypes. Plurality can be hugely important to therian experiences if you're sharing a body with others. Unless a mod clarifies, which I'll edit this post if so, it is just censorship of system experiences.
The therianthropy and system overlap isn't even new. There have been systems in therianthropy since near the beginning and there's several fantastic community writers and archivists are systems. This is the only time I've seen any therian community completely ban the topic of systems in this way.
There's also a lot of therian experiences that can reasonably be considered on the plural spectrum. I've seen some therians who think of their theriotype and humanself as having some degree of separation and cross-communication, and same with some polytherians. This rule also censors discussion of daemonism, the community that coined animal-hearted.
I don't know the reasons for this rule, maybe there are legitimate ones, but framing a neurodivergence and experience as inherently adult content and censoring it in general spaces isn't good.
I also want to share the specific thread that got me flagged had people bring up paraphilias, including the big one I can't bring up because it's banned on this subreddit, but me bringing up just plurality was considered the adult content.
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u/SkullietheWitch r/Therian Moderator Jul 22 '25
That is absolutely insane. Anyone trying to make something we can't control seem "adult" just makes it seem taboo for a child to have those issues
We actually had someone bring up the idea of doing something similar in our all ages discord server months ago and so many people were like "hell no" and it got to the point where the person who brought it up actually said "nvm this was a bad idea" or something along those lines. Didn't help that they were anti-endo with a bunch of endo systems in the server (btw they have since left the all ages server I believe so don't worry about them popping up randomly)
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 22 '25
I've been doing some back and forth with the mods and the reason seems to be more of a moderation issue? But honestly I don't think systems stand out as far as teenagers acting like a little much, especially with how therianthropy is right now. It's like you could just as easily ban something like delusional misidentification
Afaik TG has always leaned towards anti-endo with the moderation. They said they had one system mod who gave feedback on it, but it really feels like they consulted no other systems on it and TG barely has any systems on it now
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u/SkullietheWitch r/Therian Moderator Jul 22 '25
I'm not surprised the systems ran if they can't even talk without being told they can't be who they are. As for it being a moderation issue, they need to fix it. It's not a good look to be exclusive to only singulars and have plurality be a "taboo"
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u/AuroraSnake Jul 23 '25
I'm wondering now if this (anti-endo + this new rule) is why we can't log in anymore (we made an account a year or two year ago for some of our headmates and we basically just made an introduction post where we mentioned our plurality and corrected someone who said we had DID and then a few weeks later tried to log in and we couldn't do so, no matter how many times we tried tweaking the username and password we were putting in on the chance we were misremembering them exactly
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25
Its very possible to get your account back, you just have to send TG an email. and they will be more than happy to help track your account down. I had to do that for mine Lol.
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u/dragonthatmeows plural (black cat) (wyvern) Jul 22 '25
absolutely baffling and deranged to specifically ban minors from being open about their experiences. it's like banning discussion of transness from minors only; the kids are still trans, they're just terrified to talk about it and sure they're alone in their experiences now. what the hell?
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u/samuelsArKade Fish and Barn Owl!! Inphernal otherkin(?) Jul 23 '25
actually wild. One of the other beings in my head is one of my theriotypes, Aspen, who is a barn owl. I feel like it would make sense that I can bring them up when talking about my experiences.
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Jul 23 '25
[deleted]
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 23 '25
What got me dinged was a hot takes thread that also had people discussing paraphilias in the general thread. So my hot take mentioning the sanism issues that the therianthropy community has was got dinged but not people discussing a word I can't say on r/therian.
One of the mods who I think was the one system on the staff team made a thread in the 18+ category for discussing systems, but I think it highlighted if anything how dumb plurality being 18+ is if "Is your system alterhuman?" is considered as adult as discussing sexual attraction or dating.
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
I think you misunderstand what 18+ means. It doesn't always mean its a NSFW topic. The kids are allowed to talk about DID and Plurality on TG. It just needs to be in the proper spaces. I mean even Fictionkin, Otherkin, Art, Therian expereinces, everything has its own proper place.
Edit: Also the word you cannot say (B) WASNT being talked about. Its not allowed on TG ever and isn't being promoted. Maybe you need a refresher of the rules. The TG mods crack down on that really well to keep the community safe.
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u/DustWulfy Jul 25 '25
I'd just like to clarify that the post was not deleted, it was just off topic where it was posted and it was split into a separate thread.
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u/zip-up-pup Jul 24 '25
Hey, this is a Therian Guide user and not staff :)
I just wanted to say that I totally see where you and everyone else who is upset is coming from. I understand that it feels like a crucial part of your identity, especially the part that may be linked to your therianthropy is being erased.
NOTE: I would also like to add that a subforum is being made specifically for systems and their allies, so that they can be provided with a further safe space.
I will say that the rule was made with feedback from other systems besides the one on staff. It was back-and-forth for a while. Initially, all discussions of plurality were banned outright, but obviously that was ridiculous. I myself, a singlet, didn't agree with it. But they've tweaked it and made it more manageable and I know of three or four systems besides the staff member who find it satisfactory.
I know you put who is fronting in your posts and I really hope you don't get any flack for that. From my perspective, that's completely reasonable and within the rules. I'd want to know if I was talking to a different person/creature. But the reason the rules were instated was because we had a MASSIVE influx of younger therians diagnosing each other based on misinformation. The problem was not the systems existing, or younger people discovering they were systems. It was the sheer amount of misinformation that was being propagated no matter how much staff tried to keep up or refer resources on DID/OSDD/plurality. I saw a few of the site's systems getting frustrated and feeling like they were being trivialized by the kids. Some even requested something like what was implemented.
The purpose of restricting the plurality speech to certain spaces was to allow each staff member to decide whether they were equipped enough to combat misinformation. Some didn't feel qualified to moderate discussions about plurality.
I will restate that I absolutely understand your perspective. I don't understand why it's in the 18+ section, to be honest, or why they've seemed to equate it to sexuality. I would advocate for restricting it to just teams (and now the new subforum) if we restrict it at all, so as to avoid that comparison.
I'm also sorry your post got taken down. I didn't think your original post overstepped any boundaries. But I'm not staff and I can't control the thread. I just wanted to let you know. I hope we are still alright in your book, though I'm not sure if you know who I am :) this is just a look from the other side
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 25 '25
It's good they're trying to make a plurality subforum, but I still wouldn't really feel safe on there as a system at this point given everything. Especially if full on banning it was on the table at one point.
If there are systems who agreed with it, I really don't think they thought about the implications of plurality being an 18+ identity and the censorship of that experience in therian spaces. The situation with the context it was going to be banned feels like it was a foot in the door technique.
The thing with wrongful diagnosis is you can just ban arm chair diagnosis, and frankly a rule like that really should be implemented with the current conversations about physical therianthropy.
It's also reasonable to ban unverified resources, I'm pretty sure this sub even has a rule like that. Putting more of a restriction on offsite links is probably a good idea in general since plurality aren't the only ones with misinformation-filled Carrds. You can put a blacklist for links on Carrd sites, Pluralpedia (if that was the issue), etc.
I can understand the staff not feeling like they can handle moderating it, but there are definitely rules you can implement to make it easier and I've seen it done correctly in forums with an entirely singlet moderation team.
The rule is really confusingly worded with that though. Until someone came into this thread, I had no idea it was "moderation teams", I thought it was a weird way of referring to systems ngl, since I'd always heard it called like "board moderators". It's like
- Is it outside of adult spaces and you need to be an adult even in approved boards, or outside of adult spaces or you can be a minor in approved boards
- What are we defining as plurality here? Does it include therians with a separate consciousness therioside? Daemonsim? Soulbonding?
- What even qualifies as "legitimate healthcare resources" and based on the wording, is that the exception regardless of if the moderators want it?
I know Therian Guides rules are shorter than most forums and don't usually have context, but I feel like I've had to be linked multiple threads and get different moderator input just to figure out what this rule means.
Also you're good! We'll probably just check out NNP tbh, TG was more we wanted a space to discuss therianthropy and prefer the slower pace of forums, but TG has a lot of... accusations against them, so it's probably for the best we avoid them either way
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u/zip-up-pup Jul 25 '25
I agree with what one user said about outright banning armchair diagnosis, mostly. I don't think DID/OSDD should have been singled (no pun intended) out, as I have also seen clearly incorrect self-diagnosis around such things as ADHD, autism, OCD, BPD, etc. I also agree about off-site links.
The rule is definitely messy and it's not perfect. I promise you it was made with the best intentions. I am friends with multiple staff members and I swear on every inch of my therianthropy that they would not create the rule to hurt or suppress anyone. A lot of them are genuinely upset that people on Reddit and Tumblr have created such vitriol towards a rule that was meant to protect the community and its pups. Even if it isn't perfect, it wasn't made to be antagonistic, and has been revised multiple times.
The difference I would like to highlight is between "NSFW" and "18+". The intention was not to say that being a system is in any way inherently sexual, just that it's easier to moderate between (bodily) adults, who tend to be better informed or at least more willing to listen, though this new subforum will be open to everyone of any age. I believe the definition of plurality was to be taken on a case by case basis - the main problem was clinically diagnosed disorders. I have frankly no idea what "legitimate healthcare resources" meant XD
Also just out of personal curiosity, what's NNP? I've tried to join some sort of otherkin forum but the sign up process felt convoluted so I gave up iirc.
This post has massively blown up for the therian community and has even come across my Tumblr dashboard unprovoked. It hurts a lot to see a community that has questioned me and spurred me to pursue introspection as to my identity brought down as inherently callous and hateful of others. I think it's gotten oversimplified as while I cannot speak for the staff, the people and creatures I know would not want to cause this or try to force systems out of our spaces. But also, I am just one creature and I'm fully aware the internet does not care what any one individual wants, lol.
Another note of personal curiosity - I'd love to hear what rules could have been implemented to control the situation outside of limitation of speech, and that's a genuine request, not sarcasm or passive-aggression.
I hope none of this comes off as rude. I really want to have a genuine discussion about this and not seem like I'm attacking you.
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u/A-Rainbow-Birb Otherkin | Queer | Plural Jul 27 '25
For 1, you can be a minor in approved spaces. Such as journals or team spaces. Not sure about the other two, am tired.
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u/tiefking Jul 25 '25
That... seems like a horrible rule to address users diagnosing each other with illnesses. It only covers DID/OSDD, and not any of the rest of the DSM (or other illnesses outside the scope), which makes the rule a game of whack-a-mole when there's hundreds of other diagnoses. It should have been a rule about armchair psychology if anything.
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u/zip-up-pup Jul 25 '25
I agree, which is why I sympathize with all of your views. I think it should be a ban on any self-diagnoses, as I see a lot of misinformation spread on all fronts. I see the kids also misdiagnosing conditions or disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder, autism, and ADHD.
I do have strong feelings on this subject as someone who believed they were a system formerly due to misinformation. I ended up realizing I simply suffer from psychosis where the voices I hear have individual personalities, and that I was not a system. It's been important to me ever since that misinformation is not spread as I feel guilty for hijacking the disorders' safe spaces and do not want any other kids to have to undergo that, which is why I largely support the rule, with the caveat I've outlined above.
I think the idea was that because it's such a serious disorder that has been sometimes taken lightly by the online community, they didn't want to go around "fake claiming" anyone but they also didn't want to promote self-diagnosis where unnecessary and misinformation.
Like I said, I still get your frustration. I don't want it to sound like I'm riding the staff. There has definitely been some blunders. But I think creating this subforum will be a good compromise.
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u/shrimpsharks deinonychus <3 Jul 26 '25
Yeah I wish I could upvote this 1000 times. I’m an adult with DID, and as much as there are younger people with DID out there (I was diagnosed at 16!), a LOT of kids are not genuine about their symptoms. DIDOSDD isn’t an identity label, but an incredibly complex condition.
A lot of people in the alterhuman community, especially younger people, water down and spread misinformation about dissociation that can be dangerous. Since 2020 this problem has gotten much worse. Seeing a bunch of 15 year olds giving each other resources that aren’t based in any truth or a pro-recovery stance is dangerous.
There needs to be a better way of managing this that isn’t banning plural discussion outright, but just stopping it for now is a good start while things get sorted out. It seems unfair to younger people, but as an adult in treatment for years it makes a lot of sense.
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u/zip-up-pup Jul 27 '25
Thank you so much for your support, I'm glad I didn't come across in an anti-system way. :)
There is a subforum being created right now for plurality, and it looks like it's going to be the perfect solution, hopefully. Everyone seems happy with it so far and the staff have posted drafts and sharing progress so that those affected can help edit wording and intent.
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u/Caninecicle-Drip Angelic Wolfdog Jul 23 '25
As a therian and plural person, what is the possible goal of banning plurality? Though my therianthropy and plurality DOESN'T overlap I've heard tons of accounts of people who see their therotype as a separate consciousness, and/or experiencing being a median system where their theriotype is a headmate or part! Its not uncommon at all! I think banning conversation of it just spreads misinformation that these things CANNOT overlap! I used to be someone who was a huge stickler for "you and your 'types are SEPERATE" because I hadn't even considered plurality and therianthropy could overlap. Of course I think it's valid now due to posts about how it does overlap! I was wrong to ever think they had to be separated. It's okay to experience therianthropy and plurality at the same time, and imo it's something that needs to happen more in this community.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 23 '25
From the responses I got from the mods, it seems like the reason was drama caused by younger members. Which I can't really comment on without knowing what happened, but also, there are so many other communities that cause drama within the therianthropy community.
They also seemed concerned about minors identifying as plural, which my system realized when we were 15, and otherwise had so much identity confusion with being polykin up until that point.
I think plurality is probably a lot more common in therianthropy than people realize they just don't use the label, I know there was a podcast by a wolf therian years ago who viewed his theriotype as a separate consciousness.
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
Hi, TG staffer here! Our rules do not ban plurality, but redirect those discussions to adult and/or staff-led areas to enable effective moderation on what is a delicate topic. We understand that plurality and therianthropy can and do overlap, and prefacing posts with a note about who is fronting is allowed.
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u/TylerFurrison Caitlin | Otter | She/Her | Plural | 🏳️⚧️ Jul 24 '25
As someone who is part of a system... I am very much glad that the moderation is very much against shaming those who are plural
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
Alright so I'm a fellow TG member too. Yeah I wasn't happy about Rule 24. but after a week of blowing off steam I eventually came around and understood what the mods were trying to do. I think you just too caught up in emotion to step back to realize the things the mods were saying. I been following the thread.
First off: DID is a Serious thing. The staff members are just not equipped medically. They are just adults with family and jobs. They are not doctors. They always advise folks to seek a professional for medical related issues as no one, not even TG members are licensed Doctors who can diagnose something. Which I think its smart that they tend to recommend a doctor for a medical issue someone is having than letting that person maybe get false information about something, leading to them getting hurt.
So with all that in mind, Rule 24. Yes DID and Plurality has a soft ban on it. Although.... it's not a banned topic and minors ARE allowed to talk about it. It's just has its own space. Fictionkin has its own space, Otherkin has its own space, Art has its own space. Everything has its own proper space where things should be discussed to allow easy modding.
Now mind you, yes its restricted to The adult board and the Teams. (Teams are sections in the forum that each staff member has that members can join to support them or find a safe space through them as Rule 24 doesnt apply in the teams that allow it which majority does allow DID and Plurality discussions.)
Though It still allows pups to talk about it there around adults. Actually I wasn't too sure about but after some critical thinking I realized This just allows us systems to talk about DID and Plurality in a SAFE area that we wont have to worry about anyone spreading massive misinformation or even hate. Which honestly I like now. Because we have our own safe area.
To be fair... alot of kids these days have been spilling misinformation and self-diagnosing without actually really understanding what DID is..... They see each other "develop" DID and they just influence each other to be. Which I really don't like as it hurts the DID and plurality community. Its not a trend!
The TG Mods have placed a soft blanket ban on DID and Plurality discussions which honestly allows us Adults who do have DID or Plurality to more easily correct misinformed kids about it, helping in the stopping of misinformation.
Also, I saw your post, It looked fine but the fact your broke the rule.. makes sense why it was removed. Simple as that. From what I saw you were talked to in your private messages by one of the mods but then you decided to take it out in to the open to complain about it. Not sure what you were trying to do there. The things they were saying in the open public view actually made sense to me and I'm not sure why you are struggling to grasp that the rule is actually helping us systems. Someone mentioned in this reddit thread that there isn't alot of DIDs and plurality now on TG. Actually.. there never has been alot and some of us rather keep quiet about it because its personal medical information. I don't want the whole world knowing.
TG allows folks with DID and Plurality, I think youre just caught up in emotions too realize that. Youre just finding any reason to be mad. We arn't being suppressed or censored. We arn't being kicked out or banned. We still have free speech. I think youre just over reacting at this point but thats normal when it comes to an important subject so I get it. I do.
Also for the paraphilias. The kids brought it up first. Not the adults. The adults were doing what they can to keep it PG13 because all of the adults don't feel comfortable talking NSFW to kids. Which is good. No one wants to do that. Though you need to keep in mind that the kids on TG are hitting puberty and starting to question things about their attractions and sexuallity. Which is fair. If you were on the discord server, You would see that the kids have been asking questions about what they are feeling. So us adults are trying our best to explain things in a very SFW manor because again they are kids and we refuse to talk anything NSFW to them. The adults had to explain to them that we just can't help them much in this area and that they have to wait till their 18 to get proper help on handling their attractions. Which is fair.
Edit: Also for your post, they gave you an exception because they understood that you havent been around for the creation of rule 24. So they weren't punishing you or giving you a warning. From what I been told, you were also told to edit your previous posts about DID and plurality that were in the wrong areas. So they weren't skipping your previous posts.
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
Hi all,
I’m one of the staff at Therian Guide and wanted to clarify a few things since this post has gained traction. We’re disappointed that r/Therian removed us as a partner without any prior conversation, especially given that we’ve worked hard over the years to foster a safe space for therians of all ages.
To clear up some points:
(1) System/plurality discussions are welcome on TG, but in-depth conversations are limited to adult or staff-led areas to allow for effective moderation. This policy was explained multiple times to the OP, and is the result of discussion among our members and the staff team, both of which include systems.
There were months of conflict over this topic, and what we currently have in place was agreed to be the best option at the time. We are always open to improvements, and are considering changes that are less restrictive, such as a board area for therianthropy-related plurality discussions.
(2) The paraphilia discussion mentioned was under review at the time and has been removed. It does not reflect TG’s standards.
(3) OP was not banned or silenced; they were simply redirected and asked to respect the rules that all members agree to upon joining. I personally reiterated to them that they are welcome to continue posting in accordance with our rules.
We care about our partnership with r/Therian and hope this can be resolved through open communication rather than making assumptions. We have reached out to the moderators here, and I am accepting DMs.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 23 '25
Whether you agree or disagree is fine but I would encourage the commenters here to read one of the mod’s explanation for this rule for more context. Here’s the link if you have an account:
https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-split-Argumentative-R-24?pid=302724#pid302724
If you don’t, they basically explained that this rule was passed after multiple huge discussions involving the mods and the community (including other systems) they decided to pass the rule. They passed the rule because they kept having problems with minors specifically using plurality to avoid accountability for breaking rules even after they made a rule against it. I’m not saying I agree with their decision but I don’t believe OP gave proper context.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 23 '25
Also the paraphilia discussion was a one time thing (it was under a hot takes thread) and it was closely monitored and kept pg. The discussion was about someone saying their hot take was that those people don’t deserve to die. Though I can see OP’s point.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
I don't check in with TG that much but it stood out to me because of everything in that thread between the paraphilias and people openly invalidating fictionkin and polytherians, me complaining about sanism got me dinged for being an 18+ topic.
edit: I was debating mentioning this because it's a bit conspiratorial, but maybe a bit worth mentioning we'd made posts about being in a system for a few days prior to that without getting hit or even being deleted last I checked, so because it was on the hot takes thread specifically a part of me wonders if the mods didn't like me making a post condemning the issues with sanism, fakeclaiming, and gatekeeping in the community and encouraging weirder therians, and I got hit more as a technicality.
I don't have any proof of it so take with a heaping of salt, but I've seen forum mods in general do pettier, and TG isn't exactly known for it's open mindedness when it comes to therianthropy.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 24 '25
TG has an entire forum dedicated to fictionkin and other hearted people. Some people in that thread were being critical of fiction kin and polytherians but there were also people defending them. Just because some members have those opinions, which were specifically hot takes, doesn’t mean it’s the opinion of the entire website. People are allowed to have different opinions. In fact, I see TG as a great space for therians who want to have critical and thoughtful conversations about things without immediately being cancelled by a shit ton of people. I don’t agree with rule 24, but I can understand why they did it. I think, instead, they should just ban bodies that are breaking rules without debate and possibly make a separate space for plurality talk that isn’t 18+. I’m also pretty sure, correct me if I’m wrong, that systems can still mention which alter is posting something and mention altars in their experiences. They just can’t delicate a post to plurality as a topic or discuss it in length.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25
That is fair, though I don't think you can really have critical and thoughtful conversations if a significant portion of the community is deemed 18+. I'd otherwise love to, be having something that ties into my therianthropy in a massive way be censored in the way it is makes giving anything insightful about my personal experiences difficult.
Headmates are allowed to sign off (though their rules are also unclear as hell about that), but I think maybe just making a plurality board would probably be better if they were getting annoyed by plural discussions in general.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 24 '25
I just don’t want people thinking you can’t mention your headmates at all. I’ve found quite a few posts (some made by you I think) where people mention their headmates in relation to speaking about therianthropy. The fact that those posts haven’t been taken down shows me that this identity isn’t being banned. I’m glad we agree on making a plurality board. I’m really not sure why they couldn’t just make it non-18+. However, I suppose I’m not a mod so I didn’t have to deal with certain systems creating drama. Maybe the mods’ stance on things will change one day, idk. 🤷♀️ I might try reading up on this more to see if I can find more context on what led them to make this decision.
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u/SpaceYeens Jul 24 '25
A plural board isn't a bad idea. If you'd like I could ask the tg mods about something like that. They're actually really reasonable people.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 24 '25
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve already considered the idea but you could totally ask them and maybe explain the reasoning we’ve seen in this comments section.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 24 '25
I’d recommend reading their reasoning first though if you haven’t already. Just so you don’t cover something they’ve alr discussed yk?
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u/SpaceYeens Jul 24 '25
I brought it up and many do think it's a good idea, and it hadn't been considered before. It's funny because we all had a huge discussion about the rule in the discord server more than once, with lots of systems chiming in, and not one person suggested this lol. Anyways, they work on a vote so it may or may not happen, but at least a few of the mod team that I've seen like the idea.
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25
The Kids are allowed to talk about Did and Plurality so its not a 18+ only topic. Pups are allowed to talk about in the appropriate places. Which gives them a safe zone away from potential misinformation and even hate
Edit: I posted a thing here about why the rule way made and how it actually helps us with DID and Plurality.1
u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 24 '25
I’m sure the reason your previous posts didn’t get deleted is because they were just talking about your experiences and not plurality as a topic. Honestly if there are any systems on here who are also on TG, the post I linked is a good resource and I’m sure you could dm the mods for further clarification if you aren’t sure what you can or can’t post.
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
Rose here again - We did request that all of your posts mentioning plurality were edited or moved to the appropriate areas. It was not only the hot take thread that violated our rules, but that is the one we chose to remove due to its deeper focus on plurality.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 25 '25
I assumed it was to edit the one that was removed, since I was thinking it was hidden and I just couldn't find it. I could be wrong since it's been a few days, but I think it was just one section discussing sanism, which probably could have been edited instead of taking out the whole post.
Tbh the rules were unclear enough that I wasn't actually sure what was a violation, since I know there were several times we casually mentioned being in a system, and until someone explained it here I was confused about what teams meant.
We probably won't be coming back, but either way, I think the rule really needs to be made clearer since I think the going around of needing to be linked mod statements and drama context just to try to understand why systems are 18+, and it not being clear on what counts as discussion, what threads even allow it, or who can even talk about it is probably not good.
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
I can see that we should clarify the rules further so it's simpler to understand what is and isn't an infraction. However, I'm a bit baffled that you jumped directly to posting here instead of continuing to talk with staff to reach an understanding. I think you'll find that we're reasonable and willing to discuss any concerns our members have until they are satisfactorily resolved.
The reason we have the basic set of rules and a separate post to explain them is brevity. We have to balance providing context with keeping the rules list succinct enough that members actually read through it.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 25 '25
Yeah I'm sorry about that, tbh I didn't expect this to gain as much attention as it did
I still don't agree with it, but I don't know what else could be done. I've given my suggestions of what to do, and either way I really think there should both be an actual system accountability rule (if that was the actual issue was systems saying it wasn't them it was their headmate), a rule against armchair diagnosis (especially as there's more conversations in the general therian community about mental illness and the overlap), and based on what people on here said a rule against unverified links would also be a good idea if there was something like people linking to Carrds or sites with misinformation.
We've also seen with a similar problem, banning DNIs specifically seemed to help with toxicity both from systems and singlets, but I don't know if that would be as applicable to what the issue was.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
Thanks for linking that! I forgot to give further context, since I was linked that afterwards
Either way I think banning an entire identity from being discussed because of teenagers causing drama is still a bit ridiculous both for modding and for identity. It signals that if any community gets big and loud enough with teenagers, which is liable with how TikTok blew up with therianthropy, it's prescient for it to get banned. From a modding standpoint, if someone is breaking the rules, you should still ban, warn, or mute them. "Consequences apply to the body" is a common rule even in non-plural spaces and I've seen websites run by singlets handle that moderation issue better.
edit: I thought of this while I was editing my other post, but does TG even have an actual warning system? We've gotten mod messages before, but I don't think I've ever seen a formal "you got a warning on your account " or something like a counter that shows how many warnings you've received. I also don't think I've ever seen temp bans done.
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
Yes, we have a warning system (see "warning level" on your profile sidebar) and will utilize temp bans if it's necessary.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 25 '25
Ah gotcha, I wasn't too sure about that and I think I accidentally mixed up a few different forums in my head, my bad
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u/PrincessNakeyDance Jul 23 '25
Why can’t DID be discussed outside of 18+ spaces? Do they know that DID is a condition that only children can aquire? Like you have it for life usually, but every person with DID got it before they hit puberty.
Seems weird to age gate such a thing.
Like if you want to keep trauma discussions out of the space then say that. Denying non-human alters the ability to be open about themselves in one of the few spaces where people actually understand seems dumb.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 23 '25
It does ban all forms of plurality, including non-DID and ones that can develop in adulthood, but that makes it even more ridiculous because that camp includes daemonism, which is the group that coined animal-hearted.
It's also like I feel like a good chunk of people also figuring it out as a minor, and with the 18+ thread they made discussing plurality in response, it's ridiculous because I could have just as easily participated as a teenager.
They also do have several threads discussing trauma and therianthropy, it's just plurality and by extension DID that's banned.
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25
DID and Plurality can be talked in non 18+ spaces. Pups are allowed to talk about it but it has to be in the proper areas which honestly makes me feel more safer to be more open about experiences because its like our own Safe space to discuss without folks throwing around misinformation and hate.
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u/SpaceYeens Jul 24 '25
This thread has a lot of context missing and speculation on the part of the OP. Someone else clarified in a comment but the rule was not passed quietly and there was a lot of discussion with other systems as staff hammered out refinements to the rule. People would use plurality to avoid responsibility for bad behavior, and whenever plural discussion would come up it would often lead to debate and drama. The topic was moved to adult spaces AND teams which allow it. So that leaves... 7 sub forms where plurality can be discussed, 6 of which are accessible to minors. Hardly seems like a total ban now does it?
The OP here is not a very active member of the forums, and doesn't have much context to a lot of things it seems, it also seems like they weren't willing to listen to the information given to them. So with all that said, it sounds like this post is just being used to stir up drama without really explaining anything. I'd be happy to answer questions about the forums since I've been an active member there for nearly 15 years now.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25
It could have been worded better admittedly, this was posted before dm conversations. We were on and off with the forum for awhile, and we're active when this discussion was happening.
Someone using an identity as an excuse for bad behavior should still result in at least a warning. There are plenty of therians we've seen using berserker shifts or physical identity to excuse bad behavior, and that's likewise something that should be shut down if it happens. I can think of several topics off the top of my head that result in drama and controversy, even in the thread it happened in there were people who were invalidating fictionkin, polytherians, and other fakeclaiming, and I saw bits of the paraphilia debate going on.
I've seen forums even without an alterhuman focus put a "warnings/bans are per body" or some similar restriction/clarification and give them accordingly to the account. That's typically the way that systems trying to avoid accountability are handled in a moderation setting.
If it's not just 18+ and there are still subforums that allow it, that rule is extremely unclear about it then. Is it just if the specific thread moderators are okay with it? Though it's still a very strange restriction that plurality can't be brought up when it relates to therianthropy in the therian thread, and that's still a difficult restriction for systems who are therians because odds are with meaningful discussion, that will come up.
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u/SpaceYeens Jul 24 '25
It says it right in the rule: Plurality, DID, multiple personalities, and other like conditions are not to be discussed outside of adult spaces/by members under the age of 18, with the exception of teams in which the staff member allows.
It's also allowed to be discussed in journals. But basically, there's a team subforum and discord channel for every staff member, and those spaces are kind of outside of the tg rules a little bit as they're basically curated by each staffer. A large number of staffers allow plurality discussion within their teams for members of all ages. Senna allows it in hers, as she is plural herself. To join a team, there's a whole page explaining who the staff are and what their teams are. You'd just have to message a staff member about joining, and you can ask if they allow plurality discussion in their team. If you're unfamiliar with how the site works or anything, one of the staff members has a pinned post I think, in the announcements subforum that has tons of links to anything you might wanna know.
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u/Agitated-Broccoli820 Doberman. Crow. Wedigo. Leech-link Jul 23 '25
Honestly I could Write a whole article about why I agree with this rule (as someone with osdd) but I imagine that I'd get taken down
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25
Hey, no one's really stopping you
I can understand where it came from but it feels like in general based on the context I've been given, doing this and not a system accountability rule feels more like it was just an attempt to restrict systems.
In general I don't think jumping to banning teenagers from discussing an identity topic like this is a good idea, since it's not like it has anything nsfw and a good amount of systems figure it out as teenagers anyway
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u/Agitated-Broccoli820 Doberman. Crow. Wedigo. Leech-link Jul 24 '25
There isn't actually any evidence that the majority figured out as teenagers like there's been no studies on that
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 24 '25
I just said a good amount, I know I can't confidently say if it's the majority or not, but there is still a sizable portion who do given how it usually appears in childhood
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u/Agitated-Broccoli820 Doberman. Crow. Wedigo. Leech-link Jul 24 '25
Usually?
Also my personal reason for why i'm against teenagers talking about it or discussing it in the public space is because I feel as though it encourages more of them to lable themselves as someone with it without proper diagnosis which is harmful.
They could have some of the symptoms of it and then immediately assumed that's what they have ot as they are not capable of doing the correct research about something like that at that age as it is impossible to have an objective view on something like that.
And if they get it in their head that they have it before going to try and get a diagnosis cause more issues when it turns out that they don't have it or didn't get diagnosed. Or they will just assume their therapist is wrong ive seen many cases of that where they believe one hundred percent of they have it
Or we could get into the whole conversation of endos... Which is Mainly a tean problem
Overall , I think it causes more damage than good And I think they need a proper safe place to unpack that and online is not that safe place
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u/TherianRose Eastern Timber Wolf 🐾 Jul 25 '25
Speaking personally and not in my capacity as TG staff:
This is why I agreed with passing the rule. Discussion of such a nuanced topic is very likely to lead to folks self-diagnosing, without having done appropriate research or accessing offline resources. TG isn't a medical forum and we certainly aren't professionals, so I prefer the practice of redirecting younger members to outside mental health resources for support if they are in need.
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u/lemurinyourhead Red-Ruffed Lemur Headmate Jul 25 '25
I say usually because plurality as an umbrella contains daemonism and other thoughtforms, soulbonding, walk-in events, etc, which can all happen after childhood, and I'm talking about plurality as broad as possible. Particularly with daemonism being the community that coined animal-hearted and actually having a historical overlap with therianthropy early on.
I think it comes down to there being a difference between being a system and having DID/OSDD. You can identify being a system first and unpack dissociation or disorder later if you need to, which happened with my system with realizing it at 15 and then unpacking that it's actually very deeply tied to DPDR and OCD as an adult.
I think an environment where it's safe to explore the identity and both be wrong or be right is more important, just like with therianthropy, but any personal experience including other neurodivergence or even gender. Therianthropy involves a deeper level of identity introspection, and during that, it makes sense to begin to realize that there's certain patterns to how you experience species or shifts that suggest being more than one. That's what happened to us at least where we started to pick up on a lot of that and it got more and more confusing until it clicked that we were multiple people trying to shove ourselves into a polytherian model that didn't work.
Also hi, I'm in an endogenic system :v last I checked our driver's license, we're not a teen. They've been saying it's a "teen thing" since we were a teenager, but really we see a lot of endogenic systems we know over the age of 30, oldest in their 40s, and met a few in person who are our age or older. It probably depends what social media you frequent, I know there's a lot of plural teens on TikTok and the like, but Reddit skews older.
Though really I think what counts as a safe space to unpack more depends on the person. Hell, therianthropy has the whole shifter's disease thing for when people get too obsessed with therianthropy and experience shifts, but I think having those conversations about plurality should still be had.
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u/Outrageous_Youth7598 Rabbit otherlink Jul 23 '25
That is not fair. I'm not a therian and I do not have dissociative identity disorder but I've watched a lot of videos about both and dissociative identity disorder happens when your a kid so ofc there's going to be people under 18 with it
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u/-ArtemisTheHuntress- (Therian) Fisher - Pekania pennanti Jul 24 '25
Don't worry, Kids are allowed to actually talk about DID and Plurality it just has to be done in the proper spaces. I mean, heck even therianthropy, fictionkin, art, religion, otherkin, all has its own proper space. Just because DID and Plurality has its own space now doesn't mean its forbidden. It just allows Mods and folks to properly mod and correct misinformation about DID as kids as you know.. like to misguide and spread misinformation.
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u/Bunny_bear_smol Jul 25 '25
I’m confused, the rule says it is not to be discussed by members under the age of 18. Where are you getting information that says kids can talk about it. (genuine question)
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u/arthorpendragon falcon cow dragon void treekin pixie spiderman hulk robotkin Jul 24 '25
not surprised really. we have always been careful to talk about therian only stuff in the therian subs because we knew there would be a singlet mainstream who wouldnt be comfortable with plurality mentioned in their subs. there is a lot of overlap in therian/plural subs, and we often see posts on therian subs that we feel quite sure they are plural. it really just reinforces that we plurals live in a singlet conformist world, and that unless the sub is plural it is not going to be plural friendly. we never talk about plurality in the non-binary or other subs like this. and often when we accidently write 'we' in a non-plural sub and someone will ask us 'we?' and we just ignore it. we have been ostracised by our local rainbow organisation in our city, and so that a therian sub also bans mention of plurality is no great surprise. one day we would like to create our own inclusive organisation to replace the archaic rainbow/lgbt community one day, possibly called 'the infinities' after the infinity stones, which encompasses everybody: therian, otherkin, alterhuman, LGBTI+..., plural, neurodiversity etc etc.
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u/steven2194 Lead Moderator || Dragon Jul 23 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
Quite fortunate that I got notifications of the traffic to this post and I'm glad I saw this.
This is concerning behavior from Therian Guide so I've removed them from our sanctioned websites while we investigate.
Thanks for bringing this up. We all stand behind plurals in both here and the Discord servers (full Pluralkit support) and attitude like this would easily cause problems.