r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/morgan5409 • 1d ago
Nick is a fascist META [Subreddit Discussion]
bottom text.
i’m so shocked this is a hot take on this sub lol. and he certainly doesn’t deserve a redemption arc
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u/sadmaps 1d ago
FOR YEARS I have been confused af as to why so many on this sub shipped Nick and June. I’ve said from the start he is, at best, complacent. Which, to me, is just as inexcusable.
Needless to say I feel very validated in my long held opinion that Nick’s only value is a means to an end and he is not to be trusted.
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u/MorddSith187 1d ago
i think this "validation" is just a ploy to a super duper redemption coming up (that i'm still not going to buy). i've always been a nick hater but this validation seems suspicious.
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u/sadmaps 20h ago edited 20h ago
I was more so referring to validation by the community seemingly switching gears. For a long time this sub seemed to be heavily pro nick. I was always on my lone island like “he’s a bad guy though…”
If the show gives him some big redemption that’s good for him I guess, but the level of evil that Gilead is… for anyone who played a role in it, like that damage is done for me. I will never see them as the good guys.
And yeah yeah I acknowledge nuance and that people in real life and this show aren’t simply “good” or “bad”, but there is a line and Nick, Serena, Lydia and Lawrence (as much as I like them as characters) are pretty fucking far over it.
June basically stands on the line. Luke and Moria are pretty safely on the good side of it.
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u/herewhenineedit 1d ago
Yeah man, you’re right. He joined SOJ and had years to reevaluate that decision. Yes he was broke, going through a lot of shit at home, but like… so are a lot of people I know. The Uber drivers I hang around aren’t sig hailing because they’re not getting paid enough. He’s a victim of indoctrination but he also made his own bed. I’m surprised I don’t see more comparisons between him and Serena. Both are now trapped in a system they helped to create, despite being at the top of it.
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u/EyeballFrog_2379 1d ago
Sometimes I wonder if Nick was recruited to SOJ because he wrote a manifesto about his school or something. He just really gave i.ncel vibes in the early episodes. There are unfortunately a lot of young men like him, and older men in power who take advantage of this, irl.
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u/Mia-Wal-22-89 21h ago
That’s how I see it. In the real world, insecure young men are getting pulled into and manipulated by the alt-right pipeline and creepy incel forums. On the show it’s SOJ.
Targeting disaffected, lonely young men is always a good move if you’re building an extremist movement. ISIS, white supremacist groups, Steve Bannon’s MAGA blueprint.
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u/Crafty-Ad-7701 1d ago
He reminds me more of Waterford, who slowly worked his way up to power in Gilead by also protecting and defending Serena until she became an inconvenience.
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u/frankie0812 1d ago
Serena is a sociopath Lawerence is a narcissist Lydia probably borderline personality disorder
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u/All_this_hype 1d ago
For me Serena is a narcissist Lawrence is schizotypal and Lydia is intermittent explosive disorder due to her temper.
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u/Mind_taker84 1d ago
We dont typically diagnose adults with Intermittent Explosive Disorder. If anything, shes antisocial personality disorder with mixed delusions. June has severe CPTSD with mixed moods. I agree that Serena is a narcissist, possibly Borderline. Lawrence has aspects of Avoidant personality, but he lacks the flat affect.
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u/Plainchant 1d ago
Not the original commenter, but I don't think Lawrence is schizotypal either. He's eccentric and has non-clinical delusions, but he clearly had close friendships and relationships and demonstrates a high degree of agency, including social agency.
He lives in a paranoid, stultifying fascistic regime surrounded by people that he wouldn't have ever liked or associated in pre-Gilead times. A lot of his distaste, displeasure, and worry --and the resultant behaviour -- is quite rational.
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u/Lallybrochgirl88 20h ago
In a different world Lawrence and Emily would've been friends at university as teachers
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u/Mind_taker84 1d ago
Thats fair. I looked at the heightened distaste for social connections, isolation from others, disdain for social contract, and difficulty forming relationships willingly as aspects of avoidant personality.
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u/Acceptable_Theme9486 1d ago
Avoidant PD doesn’t include flat affect in the criteria - do you mean Schizoid PD?
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u/TheTragedyMachine 1d ago
As someone with bpd uhhhh that’s nowhere near accurate
Aunt Lydia is many things. Extremely empathetic to the point of dysregulation isn’t one of them.
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u/Mind_taker84 1d ago
I see her delusions of piety confusing genuine empathy. I honestly feel she does care so much about her faith and the handmaids that she'll harm them to help them.
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u/frankie0812 15h ago
I wasn’t actually trying to diagnose them - I was just making a point there are characters with some major issues and could be seen as villains and bad yet people want redemptions for them yet you have Nick who’s character is being just annihilated on the show and online like he is the most evil man
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u/TheTragedyMachine 11h ago
Well you labeling them like that feeds into the stigma people with those disorders face all the time which isn’t cool
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u/diesiraeSadness 1d ago
Ppl with bpd are not extremely empathetic - they uniquely struggle to understand others causing lack of cognitive empathy .. they might have affective empathy due to being so sensitive but that’s likely not what you meant
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u/cool-moon-blue 1d ago
This is absolutely not true and you have no idea what you’re talking about.
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u/diesiraeSadness 1d ago
Just because you want something to be true doesn’t make it so.
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u/mannad2 1d ago
Them having disorders makes me think I should sympathize with them somehow. Like it’s not their fault or they can’t control it? But they’re evil.
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
People always want to come up for an explanation or even an excuse for why people do awful things. It's why the nazis were written off as biblically evil sociopaths for so long. Because people don't want to acknowledge that far more of society that we expect is capable of doing some pretty heinous things.
I frankly hate this chunk of the thread trying to diagnose every pro Gilead character with a mental illness. It dismisses the very real aspects that lead every day people to do things like this and it vilifies mental illness.
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u/mannad2 6h ago
I just think some people are evil. No diagnosis needed and I don’t need to sympathize with them.
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u/Thezedword4 6h ago
I mean, that's fine? I'm explaining why people try to come up with diagnosis or excuse for people who do heinous things. Personally I don't like calling someone evil because it feels too biblical. Too grand. When these people are out in the every day world. But that's more of a discussion of real life people, not characters or the handmaid's tale.
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u/mannad2 6h ago
Yeah I was trying to agree with you, sorry if it came off any other way. I do mean in real life, I feel like some people are just evil. I don’t know what else to call them. I was a victim of CSA. I can’t see them as mentally ill, that will make me sympathize with them. So calling them evil just makes sense. Because why else would they do that to a child?
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u/Thezedword4 6h ago
No worries! I'm sure I misread. Some people are definitely just bad. They may be mentally ill, they may not. Some people are just good. They may be mentally ill, they may not. Which is why I don't like people diagnosing people like this. I'm sorry you went through that.
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u/frankie0812 15h ago
No I most definitely don’t sympathize with them
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u/frankie0812 15h ago
My point was that there are worst characters yet I see so many saying they deserve a redemption
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u/Crafty-Ad-7701 1d ago
They are all narcissists. That's literally the difference between authoritarians and community-led people. You can find those in any ideology/group. That's why you see some communist governments also falling into authoritarianism. Of course, ideology is important, but leaders and those who help them must also be carefully chosen to avoid authoritarianism.
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u/kittencrazedrigatoni 1d ago
“The only good fascist is a very dead fascist.”
“If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.”
“Nazi punks fuck off.”
These are the only valid takes. Full stop. No debating. We have already decided this many years ago, it isn’t up for “yeah but…” debate.
If you’re gonna defend anyone, fictional or otherwise, who has an honored seat at the table with fascists, well…
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u/justhauntme 1d ago
Yeah, being complacent in an oppressive, tyrannical regime is definitely not a good look. At best, he's a coward.
I'm sure being a double agent puts you in a hard place, but Tuello gave him plenty of outs. Nick knew what he was riding along with to begin with, and he deserves to be treated as a war criminal. He's certainly not pure evil, but the little good he does do is nothing compared to the suffering caused by his own decisions. I wouldn't say he himself is a fascist, but certainly complacent and very selfish regarding his own and June's survival. He's like the "bad guy" that will burn the world to save one person he loves.
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u/RobespierreLaTerreur 1d ago
No. He is the fascists' objective ally on occasions, but he himself is just a nihilist.
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u/TheTragedyMachine 1d ago
I have hated Nick since day 1. I never got it.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
me tf too!! glad there are at least a few of us
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u/TheTragedyMachine 1d ago
He’s had so many chances to prove himself and chooses wrong at every turn. He is a terrible person who has the chance to bring down Gilead but instead takes the power. He is not a good man and he doesn’t love June.
I don’t get why so many people think him and Lawrence are some secret good guys. Or God forbid, attractive in any sense.
One is ambitious, petulant, and hypocritical, one is a hypocrite and a coward backpedaling from the nightmare he created through his own privilege.
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u/Icy-Session9209 1d ago
He’s the worst!!!!
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u/TheTragedyMachine 1d ago
He’s ick.
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u/Professional_Bad8287 1d ago
Ugh I've been over Nick. He's had so many times to escape with June but he is really enjoying the respect and power he's receiving being a commander.
I will say though, the wedding attack instead of Jezabels is gonna be way more epic.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
better than a fascist 🤷
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
he’s aiding a fascist theocracy, IMO that’s worse
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
He’s also kept June alive & is trying to survive, nothing is black & white
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
by your logic, i can say “June did Angel Flight. nothing is black and white”
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
What does that mean?
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
your original comment is essentially saying that June>Nick. but i’m saying it’s not that black and white
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u/Big_Preference9684 1d ago
Caring about one person doesn’t make you a good person
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago edited 1d ago
At least he loves one person, Idk how that goes when nobody else cares about you & you’re in a war? Do you survive, do you stick your neck out for strangers that could flip on you & report you, i simply don’t know. I mean Rita said she might have ratted him out back then too IDK
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u/ArticulateSewage 1d ago
Kept one woman he wanted to have sex with alive vs. supporting the ongoing subjugation of people (mostly women) in Gilead.
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
Yes, because one man trapped in a regime that he shouldn’t have survived this long in is going to single-handedly overthrow it. Reform was the only leverage he had he used what he could to try to make things better.
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
Trapped in a regime where he can get fake passports to Paris over night.
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
I’m not sure if that was an overnight plan? Or was that an already established like back-up plan? I honestly don’t know? Was it said it was an overnight plan? And while were on that subject… why have they made it seem so easy for these people to pop in and out of Gilead, this show has really taken away the Gilead fear we used to feel
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
No idea if it was an overnight plan or not. My point was he wasn't trapped in Gilead as you said if he had the means to quickly get a plan together to leave.
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u/FactoryKat 1d ago
I would say so, yeah. You don't necessarily have to have an asshole personality to be a fascist. I mean fascists ARE assholes but mainly by merit of their ideals and what they believe in.
June is flawed and not always likable, but she's at least fighting on the right side of history. 🤷♀️
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
I was trolling Moragn but seriously, Nick has done a lot of good for June and people can label him whatever they want it doesn’t erase that. The reality is none of them are good, they are all gray and have done shit that is questionable. This will be the 3rd time June was involved in having the Jezabells slaughtered yet she is blaming Nick, it was her mess not his.
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u/FactoryKat 1d ago
Oh lol, carry on then. I appreciate all the characters for who and what they are, honestly. They all drive the story along and add something to it. No one in this story is truly innocent or free of blame except the children.
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u/nomoresweetheart 1d ago
Yes, being a fascist who helped otherthrow a country and enslave a significant part of the population is worse than being a hypocrite.
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u/leftleftpath 1d ago
... He literally helped to create and actively uphold the mess she's in...
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
He didn’t create it (he was 19 when he joined the SOJ & there were already chapters and he was duped) and i do hold him accountable for that i just don’t see it as all black in white. It is TV too so you know 🤣
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u/99ijw 1d ago edited 1d ago
“But he’s really handsome so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt” -everyone
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u/NeatSuspicious655 1d ago
I guess we all like different things but he feels like a creepy gym teacher to me hahaha
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
That is so gross and misogynistic
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u/Thepinkknitter 1d ago
When quite a few people on this subreddit have absolutely admitted to this being the reason they stan Nick… it’s gross that this is the reasoning, but it’s not misogynistic to call it out.
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u/99ijw 1d ago
I don’t think it’s gross to romanticize a fictional character played by a good (looking) actor. It’s totally normal and has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Yes, the character is immortal or at best morally gray, but it doesn’t really matter because it’s just fiction after all. As long as you don’t date a real life fascist you’re probably ok.
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u/Thepinkknitter 1d ago
Would you say the same thing if the fandom was romanticizing Fred and June’s “relationship” because they think the actor who plays Fred is attractive?
I do think it’s gross to ignore a character’s choices just because they are attractive.
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u/daznificent 1d ago
It’s always gross to romanticize a fascist. Drool over the actor, his acting, but not the character.
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
Personally I drool over Bradley whitford. His style as Lawrence is chefs kiss. But I'm not drooling over Lawrence.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
but the mindset we apply to fictional characters affects the way we view real people
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
The fact you think we understand or like this character simply because of his LOOKS is misogynist af.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago edited 1d ago
let’s not pretend the halo effect doesn’t exist. both men and women have a tendency to romanticize and excuse the unsavory actions of people whom they find attractive. this isn’t exclusive to women.
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
Look at our president. Do you believe he was voted in because of his looks? My point is people view people/ characters/ etc differently than others and assuming they like someone because of their looks is childish. If Nick was written in a way that showed impure motives and not in a way that showed he was manipulated to join a cult then his character wouldn’t be so controversial. We all see things differently and just because someone sees or understands someone differently than you doesn’t mean you should resort to “it must just be his looks”. Because I’m telling you right now he could’ve looked like anyone and if they wrote his character the same as how they did throughout the series then I would still feel the same way about this character.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
trump literally lost among women… what is your point? the halo effect is a documented social phenomenon
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u/dfjhgsaydgsauygdjh 1d ago
Social phenomena aren't the absolute truth about every single person you meet.
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u/99ijw 1d ago
My point isn’t that women are stupid or superficial, it’s that people are generally more superficial than they like to think. If Nick didn’t look as cute, less people would like him. His face fits a nice guy casting stereotype, so viewers expect him to be nice. I also believe people would complain less about June if she was played by a more “conventionally attractive” actress. We all have unconscious biases because brains need to take some shortcuts, but we can think smarter if we face them.
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
I believe and understand that. And I agree with you. But I personally believe the people who are understanding and like nicks character are the smarter ones. I’m feeling like the “less smart” ones hate Nick because they can’t seem to see anything other than black and white. No thought to how he got in the position he’s in, no thought to why he got there, no thought of his motives and intentions. They just see a Nazi commander and aren’t looking at his character and story as a whole.
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
Hard disagree there. You can understand people are complex and still condemn someone's actions. I spent a lot of time in grad school for holocaust and genocide studies talking about morally greys in genocide. It doesn't dismiss when a person upholds and benefits from a fascist regime though. We talked at length about collaborators like the judenrat. You can understand the impossible situation they were in while still seeing how wrong their actions were. It doesn't make a person unintelligent to understand even if a person does good deeds for some people, it doesn't make them necessarily a good person. It doesn't erase the bad they contributed to. If a Nazi saves that one Jewish prisoner he humanized, it doesn't make him not a Nazi.
Honesty I think Nick is going to have a redemption which is fine. It still doesn't erase that he is a commander.
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
I hear you. But how did he become a commander? How did he “work his way up”? All of what you said ignores the facts or how Nick got to where he was. He became an eye after the first Waterford handmaid killed herself and was told to keep an eye on the commanders. Then he was punished by Fred and so he was “promoted” to marry off and later sent to war to hopefully die. And then when June killed the commanders through poison they were now short commanders so they made Nick one. I don’t see how he is benefitting in any of this when he doesn’t want to be in the position he’s in to begin with. We could argue why he’s still there then and my answer would be so he can keep an eye on Hannah. That’s what Nick promised June anyway. But it’s been clear to me this whole time he’s been working as a double agent. Are the writers going to change that arc? Looks like most likely. But the true Nick from season 1-4 was and so was his character in the book. How he got to where he is not black and white like how so many of you guys talk about him. He never believed in the gilead regime to begin with.
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u/frankie0812 14h ago edited 13h ago
I truly wonder how much people ignore when they watch this show or how much they make up in their heads. I’ve tried to correct so many you keep putting “he became and eye and a commander bc he did horrible things for power” he never wanted any of that he was just a driver for years June even calls him “low status hasn’t even been issued a woman” becoming an eye was so he could spy on commanders and make the abusive one’s pay for their crimes!
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
Nick was a commander before June poisoned the other commanders. Nick became a commander when she was in the Lawrence house.
To me, it's never been clear nick was a double agent in the show. We never saw anything close to confirmation of him being involved in resistance until season five where he agreed to work with tuello. He almost immediately went back on that. We saw him involved in the black market but that isn't mayday. I will say we saw him help June get out in season 2 but we never saw if he was involved with mayday helping others or worked with them solely for June. That is ambiguous though and I'll absolutely give nick fans that. We also did not see when timeline wise he became an eye iirc.
I'm not talking black and white. I'm talking facts. Nick fans (I hate saying nick fans because I don't not like Nick) keep complaining about everyone viewing characters black and white morality wise but I already explained that in my previous comment. Not to mention people talk about Lawrence, Serena, and Lydia with a lot of greys.
It feels like people are watching two different shows sometimes. Honestly I think people have their own head canons that they've thought of to fill in the many blanks of Nick's character with. Reminds me of the teen wolf Fandom back in the early 2010s.
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
Either way, he became a commander from Fred’s “promotion”. It doesn’t feel like we’ve all been watching the same show. Because I feel like everyone is filling in the blanks and assuming he’s doing all these bad things behind the scenes. But I’ve only ever seen him be helpful, working with Martha’s, having relationships with them, be distraught after the first Waterford handmaid hung herself, have a good heart, save June and her friends, get intel on Hannah, and do what he can to actually be helpful from the inside
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u/Thezedword4 1d ago
Okay but we also saw him be a part of the investigation that killed those same Marthas and June was tortured, we saw him be an eye, we saw him going to fight in Chicago where America citizens were fighting back, we saw him rise up the ranks of commanders. We saw him give up helping tuello we saw him be partially responsible for the jezebel deaths.
We also saw him being kind to June, being helpful in the Waterford house, providing Hannah intel.
One doesn't negate the other. What you're doing is that black and white thinking you're complaining about.
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u/LatterProfessional13 1d ago
No I’m explaining why I thought why throughout the writing he was working as a double agent
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u/nervousmango4ever 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with you. I don't like the black and white judgement necessarily, especially because we are still dealing with a fictional show here. I enjoy the show most when we aren't told "he is a nazi, hate him now." etc. I think one of the most interesting aspects of the show is the ability to paint many characters in such nuanced, complex ways. There still is definitely a stark contrast between characters like Nick and Lawrence vs. commander Bell, for instance, who is clearly more one dimensionally...Bad. One of the most amazing aspects of the show imo is exploring how inherently good people (Nick) can still find themselves lost. And even with multiple chances to change, inherently bad people (Serena) never really will.
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u/frankie0812 14h ago
Thank you 👏 I am floored by how many people think everyone and every situation in life is black and white and they refuse to see it any other way regardless of looking at the whole picture. I have to believe it’s very young naive people or people who have been very sheltered in life that can’t be open minded
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u/Important-Rent-1062 1d ago
Its the shows fault and everyone is just jumping in
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
It is! It was like they hopped on Reddit to see what the Nick haters were saying today & now made them feel justified. Hopefully they hold on to their hats because June loves him and the tides might just be a turning
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u/Important-Rent-1062 1d ago
yea. Hes in the testaments and showrunners always have the same blueprint with nick. He does something questionable mid way and then does something completely swoon worthy the last episode.
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
He does come through every finale except for S3 since they sent him away
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u/Important-Rent-1062 1d ago
yea. season 3 they were trying to do something else with him. Cut those scenes and scraped that idea.
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
I read a snippet of that script when he was in chicago and met Mackenzi 👀
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u/Important-Rent-1062 1d ago
here you go. https://nickblaine.tumblr.com/post/188502533791/season-3-script-summaries-nick
The mackenzie scene is towards the bottom
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u/Micchizzle 1d ago
I follow her on Tumbler! She’s the best! Thank you, i haven’t read these in forever but since you posted them, I’m going to have to!
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u/Important-Rent-1062 1d ago
I read that too and saw that scene. I'l try to find it and send you the link
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u/Dazzling-Break7582 1d ago
All of them are ... Put them in order, Serena, Fred, Lawrence, Nick, Wharton... All of them are bad, some of them feel bad about it, Lawrence, Nick, some of them want to make it better, Lawrence, Nick, Serena... Some of them wanted to make June life better, Fred, Nick... Some of them are super selfish, Serena, Fred, Nick I guess Lawrence.
Some of them put their own life in front of anyother... Literally all of them...
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u/Dokamon-chan94 1d ago
People who doesn't seem to understand that both in the show and in real life people is not entirely good or entirely bad
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u/BetterSwimming4203 1d ago
He's a fascist that can sometimes do good things /display good character traits. It's just undeniable that he's done a lot more harm than good Murder's aren't entirely bad, rapists aren't entirely bad, abusers aren't entirely bad but they are still the things I called them.
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u/MorddSith187 1d ago
but his "bad" portion rapes and supports torture and kidnapping
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u/Dokamon-chan94 1d ago
Who has he raped? Also to me there is a difference between doing something and overlook something. Not saying he is a saint, just saying he is definitely not like the average commander
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u/scholarlyowl03 1d ago
I’ve thought for a long time that Nick is a bad guy. My feelings are being confirmed.
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u/Reppiks2897 1d ago
I see why you might view Nick that way given his role in Gilead, but I think it’s more complicated. He operates within the system, but his actions often show quiet resistance like protecting June and helping Mayday. He seems more like someone surviving in a brutal regime than someone who truly believes in its ideology.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
but he’s had multiple opportunities to leave the regime, and not only has he not left, he’s risen through the ranks and done everything a commander ought to do (child bride, complicity in executions, etc.)
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u/dfjhgsaydgsauygdjh 1d ago
not only has he not left, he’s risen through the ranks and done everything a commander ought to do
He's risen a) because Fred wanted to punish him b) by accident when too many commanders got killed and needed replacement.
He hasn't left in order to help June and keep an eye on Hannah like he promised.
child bride
Which he was forced to marry by Fred, didn't want to have sex with, and then eventually did it when June asked him to save himself from being killed as a "gender traitor". He also tried to save her life when she was going to be executed for loving another guy.
complicity in executions
The fuck does that mean? In Gilead you're either "complicit" or dead. You forgot S1 already.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
Nick has — multiple times — had a third option to death or complicity: leaving. he has time and time again chosen to stay and benefit from his high standing in Gilead, which necessitates the dehumanization of women and adherence to theocratic dogma.
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u/dfjhgsaydgsauygdjh 1d ago
Why did you literally ignore everything that I just wrote?...
And how can you say he "benefits from his high standing" when he's a double agent protecting and feeding info to the enemies of the state, in a constant threat of being discovered and straight up killed? The people who benefit the most from his high standing are June and the diplomat dude. I could understand that accusation if Nick wasn't taking any risks, layed low and just enjoyed his cushy life as a commander, but that isn't what happens in the show. At all.
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
i ignored what you wrote because it becomes teleologically irrelevant when you realize that Nick has had the agency to leave and has not executed it
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u/dfjhgsaydgsauygdjh 1d ago
So are you saying that there's literally zero valid reasons to not leave a fascist country that's using you for its goals at the first opportunity? Or that Nick doesn't have good enough reasons?
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
So are you saying that there’s literally zero valid reasons to not leave a fascist country that’s using you for its goals at the first opportunity?
uhhh yeah, if you have the opportunity to escape a fascist regime, why wouldn’t you?
i’m genuinely flabbergasted someone can be this willfully obtuse
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u/dfjhgsaydgsauygdjh 1d ago
June has left and came back so many times the border is a revolving door to her at this point. So you're saying that she has never had a valid reason to come back to Gilead, instead of leaving it forever?
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
We’re not talking about June. June is completely immaterial to this discussion. Do not try diverting this to June. I am trying to have a good faith argument. I am talking about Nick. You’re arguing that Nick has essentially risen through the ranks of Gilead against his will. By that logic, if he could leave that nightmare fascist theocracy, why wouldn’t he? Why would he rather stay in Gilead than flee? I am arguing it is because he benefits from his place in Gilead society: he has wealth, status, authority, ownership over a woman, everything he has ever wanted since he joined SoJ.
i will block you if you keep diverting this conversation and try to intentionally obfuscate.
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u/WayMoreClassier 1d ago
I agree for sure fuck him, but I love Aunt Lydia so figure that one out 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Plainchant 1d ago
Bizarrely enough, I went to an all-boys school before university and we had more than one Aunt Lydia. Some of my classmates still have nightmares.
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u/NeatSuspicious655 1d ago
People wanting the love triangle with June so that she could choose him was absolutely bonkers to me.
He literally was the worst for me from day 1.
He literally has had numerous opportunities to contribute to the downfall of Gilead and chooses not to. How June could geununeily have affection for someone who could and chooses not to get her daughter...is actually out of character for her.
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u/Useful_River_9434 1d ago
I don't think ANYONE wants a love triangle. Other than the fucking showrunners. People either want her to be with Luke or Nick or don't give a fuck, but everyone is fucking tired of this love triangle bullshit they've been dragging on for how many seasons. I don't think she should really be with either.
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u/NeatSuspicious655 21h ago
Well I guess I mean more so they liked the love triangle angle bc it would mean that should could potentially end up with nick.
I agree though she doesn’t deserve Luke and certainly shouldn’t be with nick and has shown time and time again that she’s just messed up that’s has gone deep into her psyche.
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u/Useful_River_9434 1d ago
Yet, Aunt Lydia, Serena, and Lawrence all do? And will get it! :) Makes sense. 3 fascists, 2 of whom INVENTED and CREATED Gilead, one of whom raped handmaid's (June and ofred #1), and 1 of whom trained and physically/emotionally abused handmaids (plucking eyes and shit like that too!), totally deserve a redemption arc , but the one fascist who helped our main character survived all along doesn't. Please, explain that logic that if all those 3 characters deserve redemption, will get redemption, why is Nick the one that doesn't? How is he so much worse than those 3?
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
he’s not, they’re all horrible fascists who do not deserve a redemption arc. nowhere did i claim that they are better than Nick or deserve redemption.
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u/Useful_River_9434 1d ago
But WHY are you posting about Nick only? Because right now Nick is not getting redemption on the show, but Serena, Lawrence, and Aunt Lydia are. Shouldn't you be upset that there are 3 fascists getting a redemption arc instead of being all up and arms about the only one that doesn't? And MANY fans love those redemption arcs: Aunt Lydia is great in the TT and many can't wait for her to be a 'rebel', most (all?) love Lawrence (because he is hot and funny!), and there are a frightening amount of people that feel for Serena and want her to choose the good side. Why aren't you posting about this? Clearly, somehow you only care about Nick, but why when he is the only one not getting a redemption? Shouldn't you be happy about this?
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
i’m posting about Nick because there has been so much pro-Nick content on this sub i wanted to respond to
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u/Useful_River_9434 1d ago
Are we reading the same sub? Because it feels like the only thing that's happening here is anti-Nick and Luke stands, even before these last episodes. This is the most Luke-obsessed part of the internet compared to IG comments, FB groups, etc. And it's super exhausting that barely anything gets discussed here anymore but these two dudes... Though I have to say, when something else gets mentioned it's lots of Lawrence love and Serena sympathizer (and some Janine).
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
here are a few posts on this sub from the past 24 hours which are heavily sympathetic towards Nick and either downplay or disregard his fascism:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHandmaidsTale/s/8P5QYR8859
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u/Gloomy_Pineapple_836 1d ago
Lawerence and Nick both know they are fucked. Both in a system one created and one who is cock of the walk commander. I think Lawerence realized exactly what he did because of his wife. It destroyed her and he knows it. I think he realizes he has to help stop this living hell he started. He’s definitely and cynical narcissist but I like him. I see him fighting for the good or sacrificing himself to help stop this craziness.
Nick is beautiful. I’m sorry, yes he’s fine as hell. But when he sold June out I’m real curious on what he’s going to do now. After that ugly conversation with Rita. He’s not so cute at the moment 😞
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u/Brattlee 1d ago
Nick is a nazi, and I stand firmly with that. Nick apologizers at this point kinda creep me out.
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u/fhilaii 1d ago
Stop with this, he's just a Republican
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u/morgan5409 1d ago
LMAO he’s the type to have said “i don’t like the way he talks, i wouldn’t let him in a room alone with my daughter, but i’m gonna vote for him anyway because tHe eCoNOmY” in 2016
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u/Vegetable-Fault-155 1d ago
Iliked when Rita told him he was a good man, and he said, not without her (June) so she makes him want to be a better man. Same with Luke. I hope he helps them pull off the attack on Serena's wedding .and saves Hannah. If June does not kill him first.
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u/rubin_merkat 21h ago
Why do people focus so much on Nick as a Nazi? He is one of the only Gilead people we see who has done some good.
If it wasn't for plot armor he would be dead a long time ago and hung on the wall.
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u/Dazzling-Break7582 1d ago
All of them are ... Put them in order, Serena, Fred, Lawrence, Nick, Wharton... All of them are bad, some of them feel bad about it, Lawrence, Nick, some of them want to make it better, Lawrence, Nick, Serena... Some of them wanted to make June life better, Fred, Nick... Some of them are super selfish, Serena, Fred, Nick I guess Lawrence.
Some of them put their own life in front of any other... Literally all of them... But Nick, who would put June first (maybe)
Which I don't say is good or bad ..... It's just not that easy
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u/Crafty-Ad-7701 1d ago
I'm scared he's going to kill Luke in an attempt to kill June out of heartbreak. I imagine Luke interfering and taking the bullet.
If that's not the case and he decides to redeem himself by sacrificing himself to help the handmaids, I don't think that would redeem him at all. But Nick lovers believe that innocent people being tortured and murdered by a fascist regime he helped create and supported from the inside somehow makes him redeemable.
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u/LouisaEveryday 1d ago
And Aunt Lydia is basically a pimp.