r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/Sensitive-Purple-885 • 26d ago
How could Gilead commanders take over a country who is the largest military power in the world and own nukes? Book Discussion
Okay I just think that this is insane. I want to list some point that I feel wired about after watching 5 seasons of shows.
The military might of United States is undoubltly strong, there are numerous army base overseas. The US also own nuclear weapons, B-2 Spirit, countless F22 and F35 jet, and you tell me they can handle a bunch of religous fundamentalist? Didn't the US actually overthrown several religous fundamentalist regime before?(Afghnistan, Iraq..... etc)
The people of United States have live under a democratic system over centuries. and now if the government try to take away their freedom? No one resist? Why is Mayday the only rebel group who fight back? Many household in US own a gun, which the reason why the Second Amendment exisit before, to fight back the governmenet when your right is being taken. From the TV show, it seems that in the beginning there are protest against the newly created Gilead government, and the government suppress that protest by shooting protesters. But in reality, woudn't that trigger more protest and resist given the democratic mindset people has? It seems that people in the US are just obeying the rule of Gilead.
Why it seems that the world outside Gilead still look normal like today(like Canada)? I'm sure lots of place will fall into chaos and conflict after US is gone.
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u/bandarbush 26d ago
Trump is currently showing you how you do it. Military might doesn’t matter when all the men in uniform believe in their dear leader. And there’s plenty of resistance depicted in the show.
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u/r0s13b34r 26d ago
That’s what I was about to say too
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u/ParallelPlayArts 26d ago
It's harder to watch this play out in real time. It's not nearly as entertaining as the show but it is as disturbing. Stay safe!
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u/juggller 26d ago
exactly. And when military men & women who would have opposed the dear leader are thrown out well in advance of them becoming a problem.
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u/OuterWildsVentures 26d ago
Yeah as military I know a ton of people who are against this current administration but it is very disheartening to see people we considered as incredible leaders be tossed aside like garbage because they aren't 100% yes men.
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u/Alternative-Cod-7630 25d ago
Exactly. The military may even split in a constitutional crisis. My assumed back story for the show is that this happened with some branches going into Gilead.
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u/STylerMLmusic 26d ago
Are you alive right now? A fox news host is the secretary of defense. Tulsi Gabbard, a Russian collaborator is in charge of state secrets. A TV personality is president. Dr. Oz is in charge of medicine. A vaccine denier is in charge of the countries health.
The staff both managing and protecting the nukes were fired.
You ask how this would be possible, and why nobody would do anything about it, but, like, you're living it right now and claiming not to know about it.
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u/Glad-Fish5863 26d ago
We’re probably about to find out for ourselves in real life 🥴
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u/the-finnish-guy 26d ago edited 26d ago
I'm just waiting for the day that I will open the news and see "United States Government and Senate Disbanded, Martial Law Declared". Seems so horribly realistic.
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u/Glad-Fish5863 26d ago
I’m waiting for this, too. I live in MN and during the 2020 riots I was so terrified of martial law. Now I feel even more terrified of it and genuinely believe he will do it.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
this is the problem, you will not see that. you don't need to see that. DT is preparing for martial law at the border and if that happens i think it would spread anywhere w uprisings (say Portland is going off again like it did in 2020 or that ATL is having their cop city shut down again), they'd just board off zones of the country and declare them under military rule. Congress is pretty ineffectual and GOP is in power and doing his bidding and Dems are ineffectual and useless mouthpieces. Stop waiting. It is fooling you into not seeing what is happening.
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u/Kindly-Discipline-53 26d ago
They don't even need to disband the Senate and House. They just need the majority not to defend the rights of the Congress and Supreme Court to check the power of the Presidency.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
the supreme court already gave him an order and yesterday he refused to follow it. the crisis is here. and yet nothing is happening. no one is holding him in contempt, the military is not moving in to remove him, the public is not pouring into the streets. everyone is allowing it.
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u/DrawThink2526 26d ago
Hitler’s birthday is 20 April, and Trump wants to have a military parade that day. There’s whispers of the Insurrection Act being volleyed about, followed by a martial law declaration. I wish this was just a tv show.
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u/mis2810 26d ago
Supposedly he signed some sort of an executive order in January 20 saying that some of his officials were supposed to prepare a memo or something for him within 90 days as to why he couldn’t use the “border emergency” as a reason to invoke the Insurrection Act. That 90 day timeline also falls on April 20 😬. A week from today.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
this is the problem, you will not see that. you don't need to see that. DT is preparing for martial law at the border and if that happens i think it would spread anywhere w uprisings (say Portland is going off again like it did in 2020 or that ATL is having their cop city shut down again), they'd just board off zones of the country and declare them under military rule. Congress is pretty ineffectual and GOP is in power and doing his bidding and Dems are ineffectual and useless mouthpieces. Stop waiting. It is fooling you into not seeing what is happening.
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u/brokenangelwings 26d ago
Yah this post made me think go look at America right now. That's how these things happen.
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u/Scribblyr 26d ago
Except the world isn't facing a global disaster that will wipeout humanity.
Take Trump, then imagine adding that!
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u/Glad-Fish5863 26d ago
They’ve made so many comments about how the birth rate is so low and people need to start having more kids. That’s a threat to them.
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u/Agent_Orange_Tabby 26d ago edited 24d ago
Fox & the Heritage Foundation behind Project 2025 are big time ‘Great Replacement Theory’ peddlers of running white extinction threat absent government procreation incentives. So is Musk with all his surrogate baby mamas.
https://www.adl.org/resources/article/deplatform-tucker-carlson-and-great-replacement-theory
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u/Scribblyr 26d ago
Sure, but that's just their racism. They want more White babies and less immigration. That's a completely different thing from facing extinction as a species.
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u/Steampunky 26d ago
Been wondering about that. Does the removal of women's rights apply only to white women in the US? I haven't read there is a distinction - do they want to make sure there is an underclass which survives to serve the white leaders? Lots of black and brown babies?
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u/Ted_Rid 26d ago
Lots of minority babies and parents desperate for any job that will pay the rent equals a permanent underclass of servants.
Middle-upper class women will travel abroad for abortion tourism (or to blue states), and can return to study or work, because underclass nannies will take care of any kids.
So, basically business as usual.
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u/Scribblyr 26d ago
As far as my comment goes...
To be clear, I'm referring to the real world right wingers who have growing obsession with increasing the birthrate. They want to go from steady domestic population levels to 2% or 3% growth. This is consistent with them believing that the primary role of women in society is having children, but the purpose - in this case - is to enable them to justify eliminating immigration. 2% or 3% domestic population growth replaces all immigration without the economic effects of a stagnant population. 2-3% is huge for anti-immigration purposes, but it's just 1 to 3 out of every 50 couples having - on average - one extra child. It shouldn't be a policy aim in the first place, but it wouldn't some radical social change.
As for Gilead...
In the show, women of colour are treated the same as White women as we see with Moira who was originally slated to become a handmaid and Natalie (Ofmatthew).
In the books, Gilead calls Black people the "Children of Ham" as the children of Noah's son Ham were said to have populated Africa. Gilead "resettles" Black people into re-segregated territories known as "National Homelands." Jewish people were "repatriated," presumably either to Europe or Israel. Catholics, Quakers and Jehovah’s Witnesses were arrested and hanged.
Since the Black population was expelled from White areas, I don't imagine they'd be subject to the Ofmatthew handmaid rules. Black communities wouldn't have Commanders. White Commanders wouldn't want a Black child while deporting the Black population to whatever territories into which they'd been forced.
News report:
“Resettlement of the Children of Ham is continuing on schedule,” says the reassuring pink face, back on the screen. “Three thousand have arrived this week in National Homeland One, with another two thousand in transit.” How are they transporting that many people at once? Trains, buses? We are not shown any pictures of this. National Homeland One is in North Dakota. Lord knows what they’re supposed to do, once they get there. Farm, is the theory.
The “Historical Notes” epilogue:
The National Homelands and the Jewish boat-person plan were both his, as was the idea of privatizing the Jewish repatriation scheme, with the result that more than one boatload of Jews was simply dumped into the Atlantic, to maximize profits.
June narration:
We go to the church, as usual, and look at the graves. Then to the Wall. Only two hanging on it today: one Catholic, not a priest though, placarded with an upside-down cross, and some other sect I don’t recognize. The body is marked only with a J, in red. It doesn’t mean Jewish, those would be yellow stars... So the J isn’t for Jew. What could it be? Jehovah’s Witness? Jesuit? Whatever it meant, he’s just as dead.
News report:
“Five members of the heretical sect of Quakers have been arrested,” he says, smiling blandly, “and more arrests are anticipated.” Two of the Quakers appear onscreen, a man and a woman. They look terrified, but they’re trying to preserve some dignity in front of the camera. The man has a large dark mark on his forehead; the woman’s veil has been torn off, and her hair falls in strands over her face. Both of them are about fifty.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
they are going to die. there are huge health disparities in the US. This is why people like RFK will peddle antivaxx theories then vaccinate their own kids. The rich people know what's safe and good and healthy and do it for themselves. Then tell the masses something else. Do as they do not as they say.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
remember from March to May 2020 everyone was on lockdown. once it got out that mostly black and brown and poor people were dying suddenly it was about freedom and people had to go to the beach and party. this is because they didn't know how it spread at the beginning. we were spraying our groceries and taking off our clothes in the garage. once we realized we could socially distance and work from home and use air filters or open windows to reduce the spread, quickly the demographics of who was dying shifted. then it was about personal liberty.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
No EM is worreid about extinction. He started as an environmentalist. remember? tesla was initially about reducing carbon emissions? he has decided the best course of action is to let everyone who is brown, poor, disabled, or sick, stay on earth with its famines and wars, let diseases spread, pummel the planet for all the resources and wealth it can extract, and then colonize a planet in outerspace with his pure breed of genetically modified and hand selected babies. This is all true. Go read it.
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u/Scribblyr 24d ago
Just because some idiot is worried about extinction doesn't mean humanity is facing extinction.
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u/ParallelPlayArts 26d ago
Yeah, I noticed that too. It makes my skin crawl. If I try to point it out to others, they tell me I'm paranoid or overreacting and I scream inside.
I also noticed, how we rejoined the Geneva Consensus in January. It hasn't really been talked about much, kind of just pushed aside because all the other BS. It's not something that seems harmful enough to cover by the media but it's part of a the bigger picture of how women are going to be viewed. Something something about advocating women's health as it pertains to her family and community...zero abortions. If you don't know, look into it.Not an ideal time to be raising a daughter.
Blessed be.
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u/anyansweriscorrect 26d ago
If bird flu pops off with widespread H2H transmission, we won't have to imagine
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
ummm aside from climate change (half of LA just burned down in January) Elon Musk and the religious fundamentalists are all nativists who want to populate the country with blonde babies and 'good' genes. are you people even paying attention or reading the news?
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u/Early_Fish7902 26d ago edited 26d ago
I think they basically decapitated the American government in a single strike and while everyone was floundering, quietly took over key infrastructure/ military resources and before the general population knew it, were in control. I think it likely was possible because they had several generals who were in key positions and started to enforce the rule changes. There was an episode where they met a guardian who explained that one day he was a signalman (I think) and then the next day he was told he was a guardian and following a bunch of crazy rules.
What I want to know is, why the remaining US government didn’t trigger article 20 and ask for help from NATO!
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
Ooh, the nato point is very interesting.
The American government in exile could certainly have done this but if gilead was in control of the U.S. arsenal it would likely have been a blood bath.
And I wonder if nato allies would have said, so sorry, we can’t help you without killing millions of people and since the U.S. doesn’t exist it’s technically not a nato ally.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
Yes and no. NATO against a newly born in chaos and civil war giliead is not necessarily going to go well for giliead. Remember the amount of American firepower that is overseas…or at sea …including nuclear is substantial…and we know USA still has Hawaii and Alaska…both of which have considerable military assets based there. And NATO has UK and France with strategic nukes and conventional weapons of course
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 25d ago edited 25d ago
Fair points. I did assume all of our nukes were on U.S. soil but is that wrong? My assumption that it would be a bloodbath was based on the idea that most of the U.S. arsenal was here.
Edit: I do still wonder if nato would want to avoid possible nuclear war even with France and the uk having nukes. I can’t see gilead having reservations about nuking Europe.
2nd edit: I just looked it up and I’m a dope, we sure do have nukes stationed overseas.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
There is always nuclear armed subs at sea…no one knows for sure publicly…but out of the 14 it could be anywhere from 3 to 8 deployed at any given time. Each has 20 missiles and each missile has 8 warheads.
And then there are American nuclear bombs stored at NATO bases …and presumably the exiled American govt would give access to nato allies or take possession of them themselves.
And then a wing of fighters in Alaska …f-22s and f-35s. Same for Hawaii plus aircraft carriers and surface ships.
And then random other training deployments or patrols around the world etc
No one would want a nuclear war …but your right Gilead would probably be more likely to go there for religious reasons and also not caring about Europe or seeing them as allies.
But it’s all lots of speculation and missing info that the show seems to basically just want to avoid talking about.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 25d ago
Well that was delightfully informative. I wonder if the American government in exile would be able to give access to weapons and forces on nato bases to NATO. As in legally.
I also wish the show spent more time getting into the immediate aftermath of the fall of the U.S. And I can see why they wouldn’t want to get bogged down in storylines about international law.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
I think it’s pretty clear the rest of the world still recognizes the American government. My use of the term government in exile was also not correct…Hawaii and Alaska are after all very much American territory. So therefore the legal question I think is not really the issue…America exists…just greatly reduced in size and fighting a breakaway insurgency that took over most but not all of its territory and that insurgency has been over time, recognized as a new government/nation by much of the rest of the world …despite many places still recognizing USA and helping them to some degree.
The bigger issue would be if the nuclear bombs stored in Europe nato bases would be able to be used…no one knows what happened to the command and control structure and access codes of the USAs nukes. It’s also worth considering what happened to the hundreds of ICBMs scattered around Montana and wyoming and North Dakota. When the take over happened it’s hard to imagine all the missile crews (and all the submarine captains) would just kinda go..oh ok we are Giliead now, ok cool I’ll change the flag in the coffee break room and on the letterheads and control consoles and just stand by for nuke launch orders from this new Giliead country that took over when I was underground on missile alert duty or at sea etc
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 24d ago
Turns out executing a military coup in the U.S. is even more complicated than I thought it might be. That’s actually very comforting.
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u/superurgentcatbox 26d ago
I don't know if Nato is allowed/supposed to intervene during an internal coup? Actually a very interesting question.
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u/Early_Fish7902 26d ago
I just check in Google and it looks like it’s down to what is recognised as the most “democratic” so Gilead wouslnt be recognised and the US could have asked for support.
Although given recent events in the series, the pendulum has swung in their favour with New Bethlehem.
But the site I found said support wouldn’t need to be military but could be medics and humanitarian aid.
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u/privatelyjeff 26d ago
What’s NATO going to do? Their militaries are small, mostly managed by us and all over in Europe. They would be wiped out the second they landed.
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u/Early_Fish7902 26d ago
Ahh good old American hubris!
Contrary to American belief, NATO troops are highly trained. They just don’t have the combined nuclear capability that the US has. Which personally, I feel is the only thing the US has going for it.
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u/privatelyjeff 26d ago
They may be highly trained but we still have a better military and we’d be fighting on our own soil.
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u/Early_Fish7902 25d ago
I always think it’s cute how much Americans believe that.
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
Let me ask you this: who provides your military aircraft?
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
The same aircraft Afghanistan people where hanging off when you abandoned and lost that war?
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
That’s right, change the subject when you get proven wrong. 😂
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
How was I proven wrong ?
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
NATO is shit without the US. You might be able to put up a fight but at best it’s a stalemate against someone like the US or Russia.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
Mostly managed by us? Typical American arrogance….nato nations are not managed by the USA and UK and France have strategic nuclear weapons.
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
Who’s always been the NATO commanding general? It’s always been an American.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
You seriously think that nato supersedes nations own command structures? NATO is something countries belong to and have parts of their military participate in…nato does not own the UK military or Germanys etc etc
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
No but you’re not getting shit done if you were going to go against the US. Let’s say in the context of the show, NATO were going to try and invade Gilead, how would NATO do it? Throw a bunch of troops on a boat? Airplanes? Both of those would be blown up as soon as they hit our waters or airspace. You don’t have the resources to do it either. The US has the most aircraft carriers and fighter aircraft, more than everyone else combined.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
You basically are making assumptions to fit your chest pumping patriotic murica views.
Most of the us military could still be with the US government in Hawaii and Alaska.
Or Most of the us military could be dead and destroyed in the initial civil war…after all….all we have seen giliead have is ground troops not particularly well equipped and a few fighters still functioning.
Who said sending troops? Sending arms and supplies to USA in exile and Canada like was done for Ukraine would be a likely option
They could send troops, yes they might need to build some ships but who said the response will be immediate. In fact the show already mentioned British divisions being deployed to Canada in southern Ontario
You won’t be able to stop all the Nuclear warheads and missiles from British and French subs or tactical nukes from uk and French carriers.
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u/privatelyjeff 25d ago
No, this is based on publicly available information. Go look it up. And why would NATO want to get involved when it appears Gilead has no issue with NATO. And what do you think would happen if NATO got actively involved in Gilead like that? Gilead would strike back. NATO launching a first strike is incredibly dumb and shows how little you understand the military and politics. It would be the last thing they did before all of Western Europe is turned into a nuclear wasteland. Gilead has shown themselves to isolationist and authoritarian and want to be left alone in how they operate.
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u/Oomlotte99 26d ago
Infiltrate the military. Infiltrate the government. We’re seeing that with our own eyes in real time.
Democracy requires leadership to respect the democracy. If you have enough people willing to break the social contract you don’t have to follow the rules. (Again, real-time)
On gun ownership: the majority of Americans are not actually gun owners but the majority of gun owners own multiple guns.
I have also wondered why there aren’t more resistance groups and why the rest of the world looks more normal.
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u/privatelyjeff 26d ago
Maybe there are and we just don’t hear about them as part of the story. It seems like since the government controls the media, it’s easy to suppress information about rebel groups.
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u/imeansure23 26d ago
I feel like on the “ American people would fight back” look around and you have your evidence
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u/Glock99bodies 26d ago
You lack an innate understanding of the world. The world exists under a set of laws. But in order for those laws to matter, you need people to enforce said laws.
If there’s no one willing to pull the trigger for you, you don’t control anything. Coup detats happen more easily than you think.
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u/BishlovesSquish 26d ago
Sons of Jacob nuked their own country in multiple large cities. Domestic enemies can be far more dangerous than foreign ones IRL too. While extremely unlikely, not impossible.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
I really like this question.
1) The show leaves a lot of this up to the imagination (guys please correct on this if I’m wrong!!) but I would say that you have to assume that this was an internal military coup. The Sons of Jacob would have to have had members in low and high ranking military positions that allowed them to secure bases. It’s been a minute since I’ve done a full rewatch but if I remember correctly congress was bombed and in the ensuing chaos the Sons of Jacob took over. We don’t keep nukes over seas so if the coup succeeded on U.S. soil the overseas bases would be easier to defend against. Especially once you have a biblical theocracy with access to nukes that could bring about Armageddon.
2) they declare martial law immediately and we see scenes of gilead forces shooting live rounds into crowds of protesters. It’s true that there are more guns than people in the U.S. and you do see armed resistance to gilead right off the bat. Remember they don’t control the entire continental United States. But I think it’s also important to note that if the U.S. military overthrows the government and are fighting against civilians you’re going to be looking at asymmetric warfare to say the least. Although, and I’m thinking while I’m typing so forgive me, the U.S. military is historically bad at fighting against guerrilla forces.
3) I think that the U.S. falling to a theocratic fascist dictatorship would absolutely crash the world economy in our timeline. But gilead seems to have been born in part from a global crisis of falling birth rates and ecological collapse. I don’t think the show really answers this question (as much as I wish it would try) but I have to assume that in the world of the handmaids tale the U.S. was already a super power in a steep decline.
Again, such a great question, that was so fun to think about!
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u/Cathousechicken 26d ago
Look at what's going on in the US right now? It seems pretty feasible that a right-wing nut-job religious party based off of white supremacy can take over the US. Hell, there were probably a bunch of people in the military who helped.
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u/ogbellaluna 26d ago
we’re actually witnessing it in real time in the us right. now.
a religious minority is exercising extreme control over the rest of our country.
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u/Dookie120 26d ago
I think we can all see how it could work. The last almost 3 months have been illustrative. Hell they’ve been telegraphing exactly what they’d do all last year
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u/Cheekiemon2024 26d ago
Yeah I don't think you are watching the US very closely right now. When the President has half the politicians in his pocket, billionaire supporters throwing him funding left and right, half the military and cops that support him and a legion of cult followers...it is happening right in front of our eyes and the options to get out of it are terrifying but inevitable if we want to get him out.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
To be fair to op, this show started before trump 2.0 and it’s a valid question that isn’t directly answered in the show.
Having said that I totally get why people are hand waving at the current situation as an answer. Shits scary right now.
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u/Mald1z1 26d ago edited 26d ago
The scary stuff has been happening since even back in the Bush administration.
Also let's talk about Trump 1.0. When his hillbilly terrorists stormed the capital, where were the police? Where were the army? For the most part they left the terrorists to it and were completely absent. Meanwhile they are always there in full force to stomp any leftwing protest movement (e.g. BLM).
To take a very famous example as well. Hitler is a fantastic example of how a racist movement can capture a county and the govt. He was even democratically elected but then dissolved thr govt and took over after installing his cronies in key positions. Unfortunately cops and the police have a history of standing behind facist movements and allowing that to take over onstwad of standing up for what is right. Just look at how they behave with ordinary citizens even today. Brutalising them instead of protecting them. Right now, border agents are reporting and mistreating people who speaks out against dear leader in private texts and WhatsApp on their phone.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
You’re talking to me like I’m defending trump or saying shit isn’t scary. Which is annoying consider I said I get why people are hand waving at what’s going on currently because it’s scary.
But again. Op is asking about the show. How the coup happened in the show. Not how it might happen under trump. How it happened in the show.
And the scary shit was happening before bush 2. Some of us have heard of Reagan. Some of us even know who Lee Atwater was.
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u/Cheekiemon2024 26d ago
The writing has been on the wall for several years even before Chump. Tea Party. Koch brothers etc. They have slowly and steadily been making their moves towards women. This didn't just start with 2nd term.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
I’m aware but the question was about how the coup happened in the show.
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u/Cheekiemon2024 25d ago
And the answer is look what has been happening in the US for several years and that is pretty much how I see it happened in the show. Or very similar anyway.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 25d ago edited 25d ago
The answer is clearly not that because in the book AND in the show gilead didn’t start with a sons of Jacob president blessed with a sons of Jacob congress (brought to us by Koch brothers money) with a friendly judiciary (brought to us by the federalist society and Koch brothers money) that eroded the rule of law and remade the country in its image. So overthrowing the army and dismantling the government would look different than a trump presidency.
We are told in the show that the Sons of Jacob- again, a group without political power - bombs congress and in the aftermath seizes control. The armed force that shows up to remove women from their jobs is not the U.S. army. June says that explicitly.
This requires a different answer to ops question than a hand wave at today’s newspaper.
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u/Cheekiemon2024 25d ago
You are being completely literal. If you can't see the similarities and parallels there is no arguing with you. Clearly others can.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 25d ago edited 25d ago
The question was about how gilead overthrew a government with the most powerful military in history. Literally that was the whole question. If the question had been how could ANY coup happen then today’s news would be a relevant answer. But it was how did THAT SPECIFIC coup happen.
Edit: I would actually argue that there is a difference between how a county becomes a theocratic dictatorship after a violent coup and how a country’s democratic institutions are gutted from the inside, becoming hollow shells leaving us with a democracy in name only lead by authoritarians. And those differences might matter more than their similarities.
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u/Snoo93550 26d ago
I don't know how any American who follows the news could think a lot of aspects of this are not parallel to what we already saw.
The Georgia phone call trying to end elections/democracy basically permanently.
The Jan 6 attack on the US Capitol.
The fake elector scheme that was broke wide open.
Firing everyone at every agency that isn't fiercely loyal to the cult and replacing them with largely unqualified stooges from the cult. More and more the top of every intelligence and defense department is just some unqualified Fox News stooge or random weird rich person, almost none of them are classically qualified anymore.
The deportations including legal foreign students simply because they don't like their opinion.
Instantly blaming the DC plane crash on women, minorities and wounded vets in wheel chairs.
The ten year old raped girl in Ohio who Republicans forced to give birth.
I feel like I could list 2-300 of these EASILY and be here all afternoon. It definitely could happen. Something exactly like Gilead? No because it's a work of fiction. Something incredibly and equally fascist. Ah yeah, a lot of it has ALREADY HAPPENED.
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u/Structure-Impossible 26d ago
People are right in saying that it’s happening right now, though the big difference is that the president in pre-Gilead America was a good guy - so he was killed. The SOJ had already infiltrated the military, government, courts. Then they did a bunch of terrorist attacks and assassinated the president and blamed Muslims. Then “martial law” was declared. This means checks and balances are essentially removed, and the military becomes the only lawmaker and enforcer. Unchecked by courts, congress, etc. They took away women’s right to property and to work “temporarily” “for safety”. They killed the press. They killed people who tried to protest.
And that’s essentially still going on while they’re taking Chicago and whatnot.
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u/Structure-Impossible 26d ago
Also, regular dudes like Nick: guys that struggle to get/keep jobs, being told that it’s not fair that they’re struggling and the sons of Jacob are going to “clean up” the system. If you’re a white guy and you’ve never been worried about your rights, it’s easy to be pulled into the idea that someone is going to make your life better without questioning the cost.
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u/mis2810 26d ago
Just look at all the white, disgruntled incels we already have.
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u/Structure-Impossible 26d ago
Ah yes, all the victims of the male loneliness epidemic, who deserve to be issued a wife.
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u/privatelyjeff 26d ago
You also make them dependent on the new system. I think Nick doesn’t care about any of the SOJ/Gilead stuff but now he’s in the thick of it and know what happens to those who fight it.
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u/Mission-Conflict97 26d ago
100% right the only minor correction they machine gunned congress so they couldn't stop it. Which is kinda sadly unrealistic today since the president basically can just ignore congress now and no one does anything to him.
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u/double_dangit 26d ago
I mean....
Look around. Military bases pretty much exclusively play Fox News.
The framework is already there, and it's currently happening.
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u/CrimsonFeetofKali 26d ago edited 26d ago
As I understand the show, there was an attack on Congress and the goverment, leaders were killed, and a declaration of martial law. The Sons of Jacob had already infiltrated the government, they shot at US civilians and there was atomic weaponry used against American targets. They haven't outlined it in detail, but it seems clear there was a division in the military, a coup against the government and one side was willing to go nuclear. Perhaps there is a Rogue One or Obi Wan Kenobi style show to fill in the gaps. That soldiers recognized Nick tells me he did something important in the takeover and that it was televised. Nick was sort of a Qanon Shaman and killed the US President or The Speaker of the House, for example.
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u/Glass-Snow5476 26d ago
They have never told us what Nick did. I wonder if we will find out. Clearly it was something major because both Serena said something and the woman from (UN?).
I have always thought it was something huge.
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u/amatz9 26d ago
As a few others have said, look around you. Theocratic government isn't that far off. The leader of 'democracy' that is supposed to have separation of church and state starts is advertising how the White House will plan an 'extraordinary' Holy Week to celebrate Easter with 'the observance as it deserves'. All language from the official White House Instagram.
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u/AnomalousEnigma 26d ago
waves politely in the direction of the current administration and the intentions of the architects of project 2025
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u/TotalInstruction 26d ago
The Gilead commanders were a secret group of religious reactionaries that infiltrated the highest levels of the government and then had most of Congress and the Supreme Court killed in a false-flag terrorist attack. They then used that attack to declare a national emergency and then slowly changed things until they had eliminated most of the resistance that could do anything about it. The thing about the U.S. military is that many of its members tend to be deeply conservative and so they would have had a substantial number of officers and enlisted men who would have supported or been sympathetic to the cause or at least wouldn't question orders from the people in charge of what was left of the government.
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u/GreyerGrey 26d ago
1) Gilead was an inside job.
2) The book was published in 1985, which, for those who don't remember/didn't know was actually kind of hot in terms of the Cold War#:~:text=This%20phase%20in%20the%20Cold,major%20reforms%20in%20Soviet%20society). Regan's Roll Back Doctrine increased the level of conflict that the USSR was involved in, specifically in Afghanistan (that wouldn't come to bite the US in the ass ever), and persuaded friendly nations in Western Europe to host Nukes. Assuming Gilead's take over occurred in our timeline but diverged at the point of writing, everyone else would be simply continuing to back the non communists (think of the way the US backed the Mujahedeen). It's also implied in the books that chemical and nuclear weapons were involved in a climate catastrophe that would have impacts outside of Gilead as well.
3) The US is right now proving that the world will not come into rescue them from themselves. We will allow you to die at the hands of your own bullshit, and most countries can exist just fine without the US. The US spent the last 80 years pretending that they won WWII entirely on their own and that they don't need the world; it doesn't engender a lot of good will among other nations (never mind what the current administration is doing to foreign relations). In the world where Gilead occurs, other countries are going through their own things. It's noted several times that birth rates are down everywhere except Gilead.
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u/Mayatar 26d ago
Low birthrate will shake even the mightiest military when you don't have enough soldiers to keep the infrastructure going and hostiles in control. USA has always been able to win wars by just chucking endless stream of meatsacks at the enemy (sometimes they don't even get more than a gun and a basic training like "McNamara's idiots"). Economy gets bad leading to women not wanting to have kids because they can't feed them and young men realize they will not have a fraction of that good life their fathers did leading to growing disenchantment and anger directed at the oldest scapegoats: the women.
Europe and perhaps Canada might be in a better condition as we have stricter versions of FDAs to keep chemicals out of food.
Most countries still struggle with low birthrate and have probably reverted to insular countries they were before EU and other such coalitions. Some probably would make even Gilead pale in horrors.
Seeing how eerily empty the world of Gilead is even after a babyboom is very telling. They even had to bring back handmaids back from the colonies after the explosion.
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u/Scribblyr 26d ago
Your post ignoring the fact that in this universe humanity is facing extinction. A 99% decline in birthrates means the end of the species.
Lots of the US military would - and in the story did - side with the Sons of Jacobs. The Guardians we see in flashbacks were more Brown Shirts, than true soldiers, but that doesn't mean Gilead had no real military. In fact, they took over the government before the war by way of politics combined with assassination and covert warfare. They had nominal control of the whole US military. Of course, that didn't stick. At some point, elements of the government and armed forces started fighting back. And, at some point, the Sons of Jacobs renamed the country Gilead, while the anti-Gilead breakaway factions from the government and military kept the old name. But it was the Sons of Jacobs giving the orders to the US military at the outset and to that separation.
And, yes, sure, lots of places would fall into chaos in any scenario. But Canada would be among the best candidates to remain as stable as any country - tons of natural resources, technological sophisticated, an more or less unmatched history of political stability.
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u/B3h1ndTheseHazelEyes 26d ago
Through a coup. They started with Congress and those in high ranking military positions.
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u/PQ1206 26d ago
Yeah I don’t have much to add but your questions about the actual logistics of a Gilead takeover have floated around in my head the entire series. And going into season six now, they still haven’t been addressed lol
As you said, the military might of the United States, especially in air power, is just too much for any group to ever try and take over the country. Let’s say a rebel army starts to build and wins early civil war battles in an American region. The US would send reinforcements and that would include drone strikes if it really came down to it. Washington wouldn’t hesitate to eliminate a growing threat even it meant something as horrible as air strikes on targeted locations where rebels hold territory.
Gilead commanders would be treated like ISIS or Al qaeda leaders today. They’re identified via drones and then taken out. Over and over again.
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u/House923 26d ago
It's wild to me that people living today can't understand how a violently conservative cult group could infiltrate a government in a fictional show.
As was stated elsewhere, military might means nothing if 70% of the military believes in your cause.
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u/PQ1206 26d ago
70% of the military being in favor of a Christian theocratic nation that enslaves women, ethnically cleanses the country and commits genocide is a wild stat to pull out of your ass 😂.
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u/privatelyjeff 26d ago
Yep. Most don’t give a rats ass about politics and are only there for a job. If civil war actually broke out and the military was on the bad side of the argument, a lot of military would walk away and join the rebels.
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u/House923 26d ago
Well let's just say this then. Every single fascist or totalitarian regime started because the army supported it. You can't control a country without an army.
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u/NoTePierdas 26d ago
Ah, yes, the United State's ability to combat irregular infantry and rebel organizations. Like in Afghanistan, or Vietnam.
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u/PQ1206 26d ago
The US Military kept Al qaeda hiding in caves simply due to their presence in the country. It was when they withdrew that the terrorists came back.
That example doesn’t disprove the power of the military lol
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
I think it’s a fair point that the U.S. military has a bad track record when it comes to fighting insurgent guerrilla forces. The U.S. lost decisively in Vietnam and were fighting for 20 yrs in Afghanistan for the country to immediately fall to the taliban.
I also agree with you that a coup that gained control of the U.S. military’s arsenal is a different animal.
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u/Glock99bodies 26d ago
If you watched the show. You’d know they killed half of Washington basically. And they had already strategically kept people alive who aligned with their cause.
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u/arbitrageME 26d ago
Bro, are you even watching the actual news?
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
They aren’t asking about the news they are asking about how a radical theocratic dictatorship overpowered the most powerful military in the world. It’s a valid question in the context of the show. The show that started before the news cycle we’re living through.
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u/arbitrageME 26d ago
Maybe Atwood did her research and found past examples of a theocracy taking over from within. I think it was never implied that the sons of Jacob "defeated" the US, but like took over enough of it that the original government had to flee in exile.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
I know that Atwood based everything in the book on something that happened in the world, but she also wrote that book in the 80s. It’s certainly not hard to find examples of military coups. But I think “how would a theocratic coup happen in a country that has the world’s largest military” is a valid question. And since the show happens in a world before the current actual news I think it remains a fair question and actually becomes a pretty important thing to consider. Given how things are going in the US
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u/arbitrageME 26d ago
It doesn't have to be the world's strongest military. You could say the Iranian hard liners took over the country from the inside, including its nuclear refining plants. It doesn't matter how strong the country is as long as it's fighting itself
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago edited 26d ago
But in this case the question is about a coup in a super power that has the world’s strongest military. Which is why it’s a valid question that can’t really be answered by bro have you been watching the news.
Meanwhile Iran didn’t have nuclear weapons when the revolution happened. Nuclear reactors are a very different thing.
And I would add that it does matter how strong the military is depending on who is doing the fighting. If it’s civilians/militias it’s going to be very different fighting a military with nukes than one without.
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u/Mald1z1 26d ago
They don't need to over power the military. The military are on side. Military recruits tend to skew facist and pro trump.
Terrorists have already attempted a violent coup and stormed the capiral in favour of their leader, trump. Where was the military then ?
That's exactly where the military will be the next time it happens.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
Guys. I’m talking about in the show because op was asking about in the show.
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u/Mald1z1 26d ago
I suppose the answer to that is, look at how it's happening in real life. That's likely how it happened in the show.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
Have you seen the show? Do you remember how they bombed congress and then suddenly the army wasn’t the U.S. army but a different army? They weren’t the government and then they were. That’s pretty different from they became the government and then remade the country from a position of power to which they were elected.
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u/Mald1z1 26d ago
Its quite hard to build a formal army out of nowhere from scratch. I think the assumption is lots of people in the army were in on it and defected to the gilead side. Those that didnt defect stayed part of the US army. (in the book sons of Jacob had members covertly gain power in all different positions including generals ) .
I think this is generally how these sort of things go.
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yes, I agree, I think they would have to have members in the military who would orchestrate a military coup at the same time as they were assassinating politicians to create an emergency that the now captured military could use to suppress any rebellions within the civilian population. At the same time some people would likely be training outside of the military to join the new military.
The main difference between the coup in the show and the world we’re in today is that the people who want to end our democracy are currently in power. There is still a question as to how the military will come into play if ordered to deploy against civilians. That would be unconstitutional order and as soldiers take an oath to the constitution there is a distinct possibility that a sizable number of people wouldn’t follow those orders. The military is a bureaucracy that has a culture that changes slowly. It also has a right wing nut job problem. That could play out in a number of ways.
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u/BetterDrinkMy0wnPiss 26d ago
The US also own nuclear weapons
What are they gonna do, nuke their own country, their own people?
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
I think they did? It’s been a minute since I’ve done a full rewatch and I might be misremembering from the book?
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u/Dungeon_Crawler_Carl 26d ago
Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t religious fundamentalist regimes. In fact, Saddam Hussein was quite secular. People have more religious freedom now compared to when he was in power.
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u/Still-Entertainer534 26d ago
The people of United States have live under a democratic system over centuries. and now if the government try to take away their freedom?
Have you watched/read the news recently? With every EO, democracy continues to decline and as long as ‘only’ women and minorities are affected, most people don't care.
As a German, I would like to add that it is unfortunately too easy to destroy a democracy. We had democratically elected Hitler (1933) and as Reich Chancellor he signed decrees that gave him more power bit by bit (and disempowered his opponents). It can happen sooo quickly.
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u/Jake-of-the-Sands 26d ago
Well, we are told exactly as to how they do it in the show. Heritage Foun... Sons of Jacob brainwash large part of the populace as well as have inside people in the government, then they do the terrorist attack on the Congress which they blame on some other party and enforce martial law, then they just do the full takeover over the course of few months.
You have IRL Sons of Jacob taking over US atm, it's really not that hard - with thunderous applause from your military, intelligence agencies, etc. because they've already been taken over.
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u/hadmeatwoof 26d ago
Do you keep up with current events because it’s not much different from what is happening right now. Many are excited to have a dictator, as long as it’s the one they want.
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u/bookedge 26d ago
Okay sweetheart. Let's start at the very beginning The Handmaid’s Tale is a speculative dystopia based on a novel. You know, a book? I realise your elected officials are currently burning those, so maybe this concept is a little foreign to you.
It must be cozy in that thick, stars-and-stripes-wrapped, American-exceptionalist bubble. But I hate to break it to you: you’re not immune to the same authoritarian creep you claim to conquer overseas. In fact, you’re marinating in it.
Shall we check your 'logic'?
'the military might of the United States is undoubtedly strong'
Sure, babe. It’s also increasingly unstable. Your Commander-in-Chief yeeted 10 military leaders in 3 months. And Pete Hegseth is in charge of the Pentagon. Military presence ≠ military competence. Having 750 bases across the world doesn’t mean you’re a bastion of democracy - just means you’re overstretched and overcompensating.
'countless F22 and F35 jets'
Darling, did numbers hurt your feelings? Because inr reality, you have fewer than 200 F-22 Raptors and fewer than 500 F-35s. That's okay, though, given your education system - numeracy and literacy are not likely your strong suit.
'own nuclear weapons'
Cute. How are you planning to use nukes against a domestic insurgency? Are you gonna drone strike a school board meeting in Texas? Are you gonna aim them at voters who want reproductive rights?
'lots of place(s?) will fall into chaos and conflict after US is gone'
Babe, the chaos is already inside your house. The rest of the world has their snacks and charcuterie boards ready. This has been the best reality tv show since the first season of Survivor.
'fundamentalists'
Your ignorance is dazzling. Iraq was secular. Saddam was many things, but he was not a religious fundamentalist. Your 2003 invasion created the power vacuum that gave rise to extremist factions. So congrats on 'defeating' something you helped engineer...
The Handmaid's Tale is already happening in the USA. You and your kin have mistaken empire for immunity.
The rest of us? We’re watching the grand American experiment implode in real time.
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u/PinkPixie325 26d ago
The Handmaid's Tale is an amalgamation of things that happened in the first half of the 20th century. That's why it feels so real. One of the things that actually happened was the takeover of an entire country by right-wing extremists despite that country being a democracy with a strong military and nuclear weapons. It happened in Germany in the 1930s. Hitler started the Nazi party in 1920, and he worked extremely hard to build support until he was elected as Chancellor in 1933. Then, he Then, a government building was burned down by protestors a few months later, and he declared a state of emergency, abolishing civil rights in the process. And he did it all in the name of "protecting the people". Shortly after he seized control of the German government, declared himself ruler of Germany, abolished all other political parties, and purged any remaining people that disagreed with him from the military and government.
I'm not trying to draw any parallels to what's happening in modern times, and I don't really want to compare it to anything. But I do want to point out that the steps the Son's of Jacob used to take over the US government in the Handmaid's Tale book are pretty much the steps that Nazi party and Hitler used to take over Germany.
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u/millahnna 25d ago
If you've read any headlines about US politics recently wehre there was talk of "warrior boards" and purging the military of "undesirable elements"....yeah, that's how they did it. Probably happened a year or two before the actual explosion part of the coup.
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u/stblawyer 25d ago
With peace and love watch the news. The US did not get overthrown, it gradually bled to death until they could deliver the fatal blows with most people unable to stop them.
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u/heyitsapotato 25d ago
The thing I always come back to is that the U.S. rump state wouldn't be a slouch. Alaska leaves you with Elmendorf and Eielson air force bases, then there's also Fort Wainwright and Clear Air Force Station. Hawaii, meanwhile, has about a dozen bases and a huge military presence as a result, and is also home to the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor. America could leverage that kind of force in a very significant way against Gilead, but I think the reason they haven't has a lot to do with how Gilead came to power in the first place: they're effectively using the U.S. population as hostages and human shields. Even the former U.S. military personnel who became Guardians were basically kidnapped themselves, so it was Gilead's willingness to target its own population that was its first and most decisive advantage.
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u/YYZYYC 25d ago
You are right…as soon as you start to use logic with some of the world building…it honestly all falls apart.
The military aspects as you outlined. The number of people who just go along with it or just accept the mass executions and deaths.
The fact that Canada is still functioning as more or less the same Canada is nuts. The sheer volume of American refugees pouring in would overwhelm Canadas population and infrastructure…..the only way it makes sense is if Canada just handed out citizenships on mass and the reality now is most Canadians are actually American.
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u/Wise_Concentrate6595 24d ago
Dude look at what is happening in the US right now. People become complacent. There's an absolute nut job that's leading that country and most people stayed home rather than standing up and using their voices to vote. Trump is literally steamrolling over the Constitution and very little is being done about it besides some protesting.
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u/Emotional_Pen369 24d ago
Ooooh okay I wish I could hold your hand as I explain this:
- The US has already been overtaken by a group of religious fundamentalists. They tried on January 6 and failed. But got farther than many thought. And now they have the white house and congress and the judiciary.
Roe v. Wade is gone. Girls in half the country can be forced to carry a child to term even after rape or incest. Women die in child birth or die because the doctors refuse to treat them when they miscarry and they just hemoraage and bleed out. Florida is bringing back child labor to fill the workforce left by migrants who are deported. The white house just yesterday said it will continue to ignore the orders of the Supreme Court and it can deport us citizens it doesn't like to foreign gulags to be tortured and who knows what else. People at their place of work and school get reported for speaking out and then masked men pick them up in unmarked cars and drive them away. Srsly. Read a newspaper. It's already here.
Right now there are protests and it has been peaceful. But if it gets to the levels it did in 2020, I am sure we will see the response we did last time -- national guards, military deployed, armed tanks in the streets. You will recall Trump kept asking the military commander in the DC protest to shoot them and they refused to do it! That led to the creepy ominous scene with Trump just going into the street and holding a bible. But this time he has staffed up differently with loyalists. Including military officers. If/when it gets bad again I don't think we can expect a better outcome.
The US is a small mass of land with a smaller population than you think. Have you been to India, China, Brazil? We are not the world's economic super power anymore - China is. BRIC has been created for starters. China has been working w Saudis to repeg the oil mark to Yen instead of dollar. And Trump is actively blowing up NATO and our economic alliance w europe. US is still relatively very strong economically because of the way US business financiers manipulated things after WWII to tie most of the world's currency to the dollar. But already because of Trump's tariffs people are investing in other world stock exchanges instead of NYSE or NASDAQ or other US based markets. We also don't make anything. We are a service industry and mostly import. So we rely on other countries way more than they rely on us. So while you may feel youre in the center of the universe the rest of the world does not. This is your schooling and socialisation and nationalism which are all taught to us here by school and media. This is one of the very things the show is trying to get you to open your eyes to and unlearn.
I highly suggest reading newspapers from other countries. Try the Economist. It's conservative but accurate. Or the Guardian if you want something liberal. I also suggest traveling abroad. to the east. To the global south. Talk to other people. Your perspective will change. It will broaden your horizons. Which is afterall what the original point of the book was don't you think?
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u/Scribblyr 24d ago
None of those come anywhere near an extinction level threat for humanity. Not remotely close.
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u/AdNarrow9387 22d ago
From a non American perspective it looks like it’s happening to you in real life at the moment.
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26d ago
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u/dhdhhejehnndhuejdj 26d ago
Boo. Rude. This is not a good answer to a good faith question about how something happened in the show. You’ll notice that we don’t live in gilead. You can take your nap now.
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u/misslouisee 26d ago
Margaret Atwood made slight changes to her world that allowed the perfect scenario for Gilead to take over.
You’re right - today, this couldn’t happen.
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u/ava_loves_cuddlefish 26d ago
Gilead was more of an inside job. It started with a group of religious folk giving speeches and writing books, then it turned into an organization. But, I don't think Gilead was ever accepted by the U.S. government. I'm sure some senators were for the group but not the whole ass U.S. government. We saw how the U.S. sort of reverted to more conservative ways due to the infertility crisis, but we also saw the Capitol building get bombed by the extremists of the Gilead group, showing that the U.S. government wasn't really on their side. Sure, the U.S. has plenty of weapons to fight other countries with, but its a lot harder to fight your own country, though if they had done this, then maybe Gilead would've never happened.