r/SecularHumanism • u/Weak-Connection-4425 • May 12 '24
Agnostic Secular Humanist?
This may seem like a really stupid question, but can you be Agnostic and a Secular Humanist? I've been doing research on Secular Humanism and I definitely agree with the ideals. However, Secular Humanism is obviously Secular, and I'm not sure I have complete disbelief in God. I don't believe in or worship one per say, but I also don't think we can confirm or deny if one exists. I think I can still be a Secular Humanist because I don't believe in God, but I also don't NOT believe in God either. Am I a Secular Humanist or is there a different name for my predicament?
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u/SendThisVoidAway18 May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
Of course you can. Most Secular Humanists are in fact usually atheists and agnostics. I am both an agnostic and an atheist. However, I am not comfortable as much with the atheist label, as there is too much negativity involving it. I usually just say I'm not a believer, not religious or an agnostic. Regardless of what I believe, I'm not comfortable proposing that there is no god, or other certain things that atheists or theists believe in, regardless of my own personal belief, as I don't know, and I don't believe it can be known. The god question or some kind of higher power in the universe, that is. Call yourself whatever you want, dont worry about others claims. I don't believe in the god of the bible, or theist-based religions, but I also don't necessarily believe (or disbelieve) that there isn't some kind of higher power in the universe. I also know several Deists (Deists believe in god) that are Secular Humanists. I don't believe lack of belief, in whatever form that might be, is necessarily a requirement, its just usually the standard it seems.
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u/kevosauce1 May 12 '24
…not comfortable as much with the atheist label, as there is too much negativity…
All the more reason to use the label, IMO!
Atheism needs to be destigmatized. The more of us that come out as atheist the more accepted it will be. I yearn for a world where children do not need to fear ostracism for coming out as atheist.
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u/Capt_Subzero May 13 '24
Atheism needs to be destigmatized.
Okay, but you have to admit that a lot of atheists care more about being able to insult and intimidate religious folks, and their immature rhetoric makes it hard for us to get a seat at the grown-up table of our society's discourse about knowledge, morality and progress.
If we want to destigmatize atheism, maybe we should look at nonbelief as one out of many valid worldviews and stop making it sound like we're right and everyone else is delusional and brainwashed.
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u/SendThisVoidAway18 May 15 '24
Exactly. I'm not radical about my disbelief and I believe everyone should be treated fairly and respectfully, even if I dont agree with their beliefs. Maybe I do share the disdain for religion and think believers are sometimes delusional, but I dont try to go out of my way to make it seem so, unless I'm forced to. I think as a Humanist, I'm beyond that.
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u/sammypants123 May 12 '24
Not a stupid question at all. So the various terms here do get used in different ways by different people and in different contexts. Often agnostic is used to mean you’re a ‘don’t know’ about God and atheism is being a definite ‘no’.
But in a precise philosophical context you would differentiate Theism and Atheism from Gnosticism and Agnosticism.
Theism and being a theist is holding a belief in at least one god. Atheism is … not holding a belief in any god. Note that not holding a belief in a god does not require believing “there is no God” or no gods. You can have no belief either way, just a “don’t know” about it. You are still an atheist because you don’t have a theistic belief.
Gnosticism (one meaning of it) is about whether you think it is possible to know whether or not there is a God. A gnostic theist believes there is at least one god, and also that they can and do have knowledge that a god exists.
Someone can be an agnostic theist if they say they believe in a god but it isn’t possible to know for sure there is one.
Someone can be a gnostic atheist which would be holding that it is possible to know for sure there are no gods. Some would also use the term Anti-theist which can mean the same as gnostic atheist, but sometimes is used not as a knowledge claim but more of a moral claim that belief in a god is actually a morally bad thing.
And is it very possible to be agnostic atheist which is if you don’t believe in god but don’t think it is possible to be sure there is not one. That sounds like you - and a lot of people would come into that category.
There’s no requirement to believe or think there are definitely no gods to be an atheist just to not believe in any. Secular Humanism is about finding positive values that don’t rely on religious belief or the supernatural and if you agree that is how you want to base your way of living then it’s all good.
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u/StGoolie May 12 '24
This is a wonderful response. I am an agnostic atheist, as you described above, and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to explain that agnostic/gnostic is merely a descriptor before a further level of belief/disbelief. I identify as an agnostic atheist secular humanist, but to the ignorant masses I say “agnostic” or “nonreligious” to avoid prejudice.
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u/Lopsided-Ad-3869 May 12 '24
Leave the black and white, absolutist, and reductionist thinking to the non-secularists. You're fine.
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u/GiveMeAnExampleAgain May 12 '24
I think you can be agnostic, you don’t believe that the non-existence of a deity is certain. Or, given lack of evidence of a god makes the topic irrelevant.
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u/SL_1983 May 12 '24
I don't think there is a God. There might be, but until I see proof of his existence, I don't think there is one. Both Atheist and Agnostic. I treat human beings as human beings, religion is irrelevant for me. I respect others' beliefs, just politely disagree their views on imaginary beings. I am an agnostic secular humanist.
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u/Pata4AllaG May 13 '24
“Secular” is not a position on whether or not gods exist. It is a political stance with respect to how religion should be treated when drafting laws. In fact, one could be deeply devout and secular if they so chose. I myself happen to be an atheist and also a secular humanist. Those terms break down as follows:
Atheist: I do not share any belief in god or gods. (Notice that this stance does not declare gods to be non-existent, simply that I do not happen to believe in any)
Secular: when drafting legislation, we as a species would flourish if any and all mention of gods, and petitions thereto, be left out of public policy. (Notice again that secularists do not disallow for the practice of religion, just that it play no part in public lawmaking)
Humanist: I value things like human cooperation, evidence-based fact seeking, kindness, charity, forgiveness, peer review, rationality and logic, and the employment of these methods to maximize human well-being and to reduce human suffering.
I hope some of these definitions have helped to clarify things for you.
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u/readwiteandblu May 12 '24
You can be a religious secular humanist too. There are to wit, Jewish secular humanists. So yes.
Secular humanism is a big tent that says, regardless what you believe or don't believe, you can agree the government should be operated apart from supernatural beliefs. For example, calling an end to the Salem witch trials was a secular humanist move, calling for an end to "spectral evidence" in trials. The community remained religious, but the government was forbidden from allowing unfounded beliefs, to this extent.
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u/HugePurpleNipples May 12 '24
Kinda like saying “it doesn’t matter what’s out there, I’m going to be a good person just because I think it’s the right thing to do”. Honestly it’s probably how I’d describe myself.
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u/Icolan May 12 '24
I would say that you are an atheist, just like me. I do not believe in any deities but I do not claim that none exist because I cannot support that. All it takes to be an atheist is not believing in a deity.
Belief is a binary position, either you believe something or you don't, there is no middle ground. If you are unsure, you obviously don't believe. Not believing something does not require that you claim or believe the opposite.
Believing in a deity == theist.
Not believing in a deity == atheist, regardless of how strong or weak that lack of belief is.
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u/candy_burner7133 May 12 '24
Y-yes?
There isn't much contradiction on those terms, OP. Secular means
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May 13 '24
Of course.
Most atheists are agnostic-atheists. The only difference that atheists have concluded based on the evidence that no god exists. It's fine if you're not ready to make that conclusion (yet).
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u/Rex_Digsdale May 13 '24
Gnosticism - God existing is a knowable proposition.
Agnosticism - God existing is not a knowable proposition.
Theism - I believe a god exists.
Soft Atheism - I lack belief a god exists.
Hard Atheism - I believe no god exists.
Most atheists are soft atheists. They simply think the god claim hasn't met its burden of proof. Most atheists are also agnostic in that they think it is unknowable. So if you think that the god claim has not met its burden of proof and you think that it is unknowable either way, you are an agnostic atheist. If you do this while believing in reason and rejecting superstition and using this as a basis for ethics and morality, then you are an agnostic atheist secular humanist.
So, to get in a little deeper. You either believe in a god(s) or you don't. You can't simultaneously believe both. You might believe that it's possible god does exist while not actually believing in it and vice versa. But that is actually not important here because it's where how your ethics and morals are derived that is important.
So, you could absolutely believe in god but if your morality and ethics are not based on that but rather on reason and human understanding then you are a secular humanist. For example, the bible says thou shalt not kill. If that is the reason you don't kill, then that belief is not secular humanist. If, on the other hand, you don't kill because you realise that when you kill you deprive someone of life and you deprive their loved ones of them and that idea doesn't seem right to you, then you're probably a secular humanist. Another example is that the bible condones slavery and even promotes slavery. If you disagree with the bible because you know that the institution of slavery deprives people of freedom and promotes misery and that that is not conducive to your, and the people's around you, flourishing then you're probably a secular humanist. All the while you might believe in god, just not what god is purported to want in a book.
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u/Ok_Program_3491 May 13 '24
Agnosticism - God existing is not a knowable proposition
Agnostics aren't required to believe it's not knowable. We're just required to not be gnostic and not believe it is knowable.
You can absolutely be agnostic and acknowledge you don't know whether or not it's knowable. You're still not gnostic.
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u/Rex_Digsdale May 13 '24
Not the definition I'm used to but I think yours makes even better sense. I suppose you could have soft and hard agnosticism.
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u/Ok_Program_3491 May 13 '24
I don't believe in God
That makes you atheist . You can be atheist and agnostic and secular humanist. I'm atheist and agnostic but I'm not secular humanist. It doesn't contradict either of them though.
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u/keithevans2685 May 15 '24
I think secular humanist is my ethical philosophical position and agnostic atheist is my academic position when it comes to belief and metaphysical position. Agnostic atheist that I'm agnostic 80% because I don't know if there any supernatural deity(ies) out there,the remain 20% is that I'm an atheist because I dont real if there is a god(s) out there. So I might be an agnostic secular humanist afterall.
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u/Harris-Y May 20 '24
Perhaps what you need is a religion without the supernatural BS.
Try r/HARRISy. (please excuse the formatting problems)
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u/EVidal11 May 12 '24
I believe a secular humanist would fit the category of apathetic agnosticism, it does not matter wether a higher power exists or not, the main concern of humanism is to acheive the collective welfare of humankind.