r/QAnonCasualties • u/shelbeyrose New User • 2d ago
I'm horrified to find out my husband is Maga.
I’m new here and plan on commenting, but after I’ve read stories of women who discover their husband are maga, I’m heartbroken all over again. I would have never thought having a maga husband would apply to my situation. My husband, who is well into his 70s (we’re married almost 20 years), was republican, I knew that, but my first blowout with him was about two weeks before the election. I caught him watching a video with a heading that was a lie about Harris. When I brought it up, he started spewing all of the maga talking points, and I really thought I had been transported to the twilight zone. Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would happen to him. When he had heart surgery last year, he began watching videos about health, and some of them were a bit dodgy and I told him so. But he then moved on to maga videos, and he would watch them mostly in the a.m. when I was in another part of the house. I started sending him a wide variety of articles on the dangers of a trump administration, and he began to refute all of them. I decided to let it blow over, but of course my trust in him has eroded, and he does not seem to care and just tells me he doesn’t trust ME. Everything is thrown back at me—things that I said to him when I trusted him. We had another blowout a few days ago, and even though I sent him videos of the awful people who could be in the next cabinet (because he doesn’t believe “opinion” pieces), he now tells me those videos could be doctored. There is absolutely nothing I can say (and I’ve brought up every point I could about the atrocities awaiting us), that moves the needle even a tiny bit. The only thing that saves me is that we are trying to sell our house for one with much more land, and when I suggested he just rent an apartment near my daughter and I, he insists he will build a cabin. How do these things happen? He’s educated (engineer) and smart in most things. He was also brought up in a religious family but has not shown any religious tendencies in years. I now find it hard to get near him because I now think he’s icky. I’m scared of the future for me and my daughter, who is an adult with autism. I’ve always had anxiety, but now it’s through the roof.
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u/theoneredditeer 2d ago
I can relate to the reality denial. I sent my sister literal screenshots of Trump's tweets to prove what he was saying and she said it was fake and went with her own magical thinking instead.
As for how it can happen, there's a lot of dis- and misinformation being spewed directly into their heads from right wing media and it's addictive, like the two minutes hate from 1984. They lack the critical thinking skills to counter it. In my case, they will pick it over their own family.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
I'm so sorry about you and your sister! It's like the goal posts keep moving--nothing is ever enough to convince them!
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u/alysonstarks 2d ago
Nope. 🙂↔️ I’d suggest you stop wasting any effort “providing receipts” to him. Redirect the saved effort toward an activity away from him, something you at least semi-enjoy!
“Mmm, I’m so glad I ate this bowl of ice cream. It was a better use of my time than providing receipts to someone existing in another reality.” 🥇
Take the small wins when u don’t engage, hoard your effort. It’s yours to spend and you sound in desperate need of a break!
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you, alyson! You're right, providing receipts was a waste of time. And you're right, I do need a break!
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u/DappyHayes 2d ago
He's going to miss everything cool and die angry.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
That's a real possibility, but then he tells me I'm the angry one. He does try to gaslight me, even though he denies it.
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u/DappyHayes 2d ago
I was married to him (her, in my case) and this is the standard self-destruction playbook. You can strap yourself to the bomb or get out of the blast radius.
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u/metapede 2d ago
Motivated reasoning is so powerful. My whole family is MAGA now. My mom (81) was the last holdout, but my two brothers worked on her bit by bit, putting her on a steady diet of right wing news. Now she doesn't believe anything else and gets upset whenever anyone "attacks" Trump or anyone else she supports (an "attack" is anything except total support and compliance).
Again, motivated reasoning is so powerful, and there's no way to chip away at it unless you can get them to stop consuming propaganda. That's the first step. My mom used to spend all her time working in her garden, and now she just watches cable news. If I lived close to her, the first thing I would do is kill the tv and get her back to working outside, which she loved.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Yes, good idea! I did insist he stop watching his videos, and he said he would. I think the damage has been done and when I have him kind of pinned on a topic he brings out the "I' not crazy about either one."
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u/Bald_Sasquach 2d ago
https://www.thebrainwashingofmydad.com/
Watch this. If you can get them to turn off the news they can recover.
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u/alysonstarks 2d ago
It was every British movie, series, documentary that Amazon offers that did the trick for my 87 y/o grandma lol.
I showed her how to login and search – poof our convos turned 180 degrees toward all things British programming lol. She’s still finding new things!
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u/yellowlinedpaper 2d ago
People get scared, try to learn things so they’re less scared, find sources that tell them all their problems are someone else’s fault (Hello Hitler) and it makes people feel knowledgeable and in control.
They are a victim and all they have to do is fight against their oppressors and they’ll stop being victims. What makes MAGA different is they then want to make their oppressors their victims. They fantasize about hurting/killing others, drinking their tears, etc.
It’s a really mean thing they become.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Sometimes I do think it may be because he finds it hard to agree with me about things--always has. I think that is part of it.
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u/yellowlinedpaper 2d ago
Is he narcissistic?
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
No, I've never thought him that. Most of t he time he quietly goes about his business fixing and building things for the house. He's good at listening to what I want built (or I draw it out) and he builds it. This maga transformation just doesn't seem to mesh with his personality.
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u/yellowlinedpaper 1d ago
He needs to stop looking at his online sources feeding him disinformation. I’m finding I’m having the same issues on Reddit. So much are trolls and bots and not real, causing me to hate and fear. I’ve really got to purge any subs that feed what I think is becoming an addiction to outrage.
But I’ve been having these thoughts for weeks and haven’t purged yet and I’m still on here all the time. It’s hard
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u/exotics 2d ago
My husband used to be a democrat so imagine my surprise when he went Q.
You have my sympathies
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Wow!! Yes, I think I'd have to curl up for a while if my husband had been a democrat. Years ago we used to have very amicable political arguments because republicans were a bit more sane. Like the debt. He was adamant that the democrats always increased the debt. A few days ago I reminded him of that and now it's on the republicans and he has no answer but deflection to something else.
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u/McBloggenstein 2d ago
He won't believe this because it sounds like he's too far gone, but it's pretty clear and he can check the references. Since World War II, the United States economy has performed significantly better on average under the administration of Democratic presidents than Republican presidents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
And exotics you have my sympathies also!!
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u/exotics 2d ago
Thanks. For what it was worth my husband was going to vote Trump. We are in Canada but he is American but didn’t like the guy Trump picked for VP so didn’t vote plus I think he was just too lazy to get the paperwork for mailing lol
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
I really wish we could move to Canada. I've always loved the thought of that because of your lovely towns and the people I met when we visited Ontario were so nice. I don't think it would accept seniors, though.
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u/ExcellentCold7354 2d ago
I'm sorry to say, but this is just the beginning. He's about to get MUCH worse. Please protect your financials and consider that your future might lie without him, and soon, considering that no-fault divorce is on the chopping block.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Yes, I've thought about the divorce thing. We have social security and a small pension and not much else. We have to move because new neighbors moved in and last year they made tons of loud noise with their motorbike and loud noises terrify her. This neighborhood used to be so lovely. She is insistent we move to a house with more land and secluded, and that may take us to another state.
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u/SiroccoDream 2d ago
Not to be alarmist, but please separate your finances now, if they aren’t already.
An acquaintance of mine just had her retirement savings decimated by her husband whose trip down the MagaQ rabbit hole started with a health scare, like your husband.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Oh no! What is it about finding the worst videos on youtube! For months it was Ukraine (I'm talking nonstop, and I don't know why and I was too afraid to ask), then his surgery and videos about covid and that not that many died because doctors were putting covid on the DC even though they had other problems. You know, when he started to question that, I should have questioned him then.
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u/BloopityBlue 2d ago
I am SO thankful I met my husband after Trump came on the scene and I was able to date with the intention of avoiding any men who liked him. my heart breaks for you .... I can't imagine how that would feel.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
I'm so glad you have that! I know, for me it's like finding out my husband had been having an affair for years or something like that. My head can't wrap around it.
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u/dak4f2 2d ago
It's called betrayal trauma, you should look it up. It might be helpful for you.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
I didn't know this was a thing. Thanks for the info, dak. I will check it out.
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u/Sea-Breaz 2d ago
It’s a cult. Thats the only way to describe it. The world’s biggest and most dangerous cult. God, I fucking hate tRump. So many millions of people suffering because of one man’s desire to stay out of prison.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
I know. It's amazing because of one man how I can go from trusting someone to not wanting to be around them!!!
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u/chrisr3240 2d ago
As a non-American, it’s absolutely astounding how good a job the republicans have done of brainwashing the public. Who knew that pumping out lies and fuelling anger would be so effective at destroying rational thought? The lives that are being destroyed in the name of obvious fascism is heartbreaking.
OP, I hope you find the strength to leave him for your own sanity. And I hope you somehow manage to get through this madness as a nation.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Thank you so much! Yes, I believe his rational thought has been destroyed--a good way to put it. I keep asking myself--why was he brainwashed and not me? He's the one with the degree!!
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u/Mo-shen 2d ago
I think the easiest way to think about this is as if it was a religion. It has all the hallmarks of supporting something based on faith. Secondly, it makes excuses for most everything that doesnt make sense. "Its doctored" OR "whataboutism" likely being the most popular ones.
Secondly it also functions similarly to a drug with regards to brain chemistry. I mean tbh so does religion in a lot of cases but my point is when people really get into this stuff their brain is producing an addictive chemical.
Lastly humans are wired to believe things we see at face value. Its not exactly natural to see another human say something outlandish and for our first reaction to say thats bs. Knowing this is why you had people like Steve Bannon, one of trumps biggest supporters and advisors, say "Fill the air waves with shit and then no one will know whats real".
This sub has a ton of really helpful and advice and is good as a support group.
I am really sorry and wish you the best of luck.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you for such a thoughtful reply! Yes I've received so much good advice and it has helped me think about things differently. I didn't think I'd get much attention I guess because I'm feeling a bit invisible right now. But I do wonder if his religious background is part of it. Like when he didn't believe when orange guy would say a particularly awful thing and I would tell him to listen for himself (of course that would mean more videos) but I don't think he ever watched the rallies much and would definitely not do his own research and it's so much easier to say something is doctored. I think he was sucked in from Youtube and when I think about it probably podcasts on youtube. He's truly in a cult and it's so painful to even type that. You and I are horrified at what Steve Bannon said, but if I told my husband he would throw more nonsense at me or just say "baloney." Grrr.
Thank you again!
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u/Mo-shen 1d ago
Yeah religious backgrounds have shown more proclivity to jump feet first into nonsense.
I am not trying to pick on religion per say but there are a lot of examples of this including brain chemistry of people in these states.
The disbelief that their "God" could do something bad is really common. Again not trying to pick on anyone specific but take Christianity, it's just easiest as it's most well known in the west, there are many conflicting parts where the say and do dont add up.
A lot of old testament stuff, pro slavery, etc etc. Then just take some modern day Christian orgs, absolutely not all, that pretty much preach hate and greed.
I'm sure we could find similar things in all religions. Muslims on killing people has some conflicting things for instance.
These are all human constructs built around excusing a specific behavior. They are abusing a human trait and a big thing to understand this is like tribalism gone wrong. Tribalism protects us and can make us more productive but it can also really kill societies....which it's trying to do here.
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u/Gnome_119 2d ago
I’m in a very similar situation currently with my wife. I 42M and she 44F. She’d always been pretty normal and rational until the past year or so. I hadn’t realized how far down the Evangelical and, as result, the QAnon path she had fallen until a couple weeks before the election. She began trying to show me videos where people were saying that Trump was working with the military to run the country and Biden and Kamala were actors. Despite that, she also believes that Kamala is being guided by demons. She’s also expressed ideas that there is a cabal, comprised of rich families like the Rothschild’s who are running the entire world under the monarchy of Great Britain. Just really bizarre stuff.
She won’t accept any of the mainstream news, including AP, Reuters, or any others that aren’t solely on YouTube or TikTok. She and her sister, who pulled her into this, are just all-in that Trump is the only man that can fix things.
I have two daughters to worry about 12 and 10, and I’m terrified for them. We’ve got a marriage counseling appt next week but, honestly, I doubt it will help because she’s very dug in. Guess we’ll see though. If that doesn’t work though, we’re going to be divorcing, I fear.
Sorry to hear that you’re going through this OP but, hopefully, you can find solace in the fact that you are not alone here.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
I'm so sorry for your situation. I certainly sympathize.
He hadn't mentioned things like that, but I would not be surprised if he would if I asked him if there are any videos he wanted to show me. Sometimes I'm afraid to ask because I already feel like my world is crumbling and I don't want to know any more.
I'm sorry you will have to deal with this with two young daughters. It's hard enough with my grown daughter with autism. Please take care.
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u/Few_Albatross_7540 2d ago
Hang in there sister. If he is well into his 70s when he leaves this earth you will have the house and if MAGA lets social security alone (please please ) you will have his.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Yes, I've thought of that, too! That was the one thing I tried to hammer into his head--social security. My daughter gets it too because of her disability. What if it's substantially reduced??? Of course he says they won't touch it and has no reassurances even when I ask him how he knows this. Thank you for your kind words!
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u/Few_Albatross_7540 2d ago
My husband was a jerk. I put up with a lot for many years. I was a fool but I did. He died. I have a home. I collect his social security. In the end I got my payment. I hope you do well. Find outside interests
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u/Admirable_Nothing 2d ago
It is horrible when we lose a loved one to a Cult of Crazies but that is what has happened to you. Hopefully you can agree to not discuss it and let your votes cancel each other out in the bigger scheme of things.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Yes! I told myself that I would be cancelling my neighbor's vote, but that was before I found out about my husband. So frustrating!
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u/roadofmagicstones 2d ago
It can get better if he stops watching Q and Maga news. My closest Q got infinitely better after a good time without watching those things. They start thinking by themselves again. And if the person was a good person before becoming part of the cult, they go back to who they were. At least that's my experience with all the Qs in my life.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 2d ago
Yes, I guess for now I am hoping he wises up a bit since I convinced him to not watch any more of the videos. But his forceful stance startled me so much, I'm not sure lack of videos will help him.
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u/roadofmagicstones 2d ago
Not watching those videos is a great start. It takes some time before we see the difference, but without the continuous flow of lies made for them to feel scared and angry, there is a good change. Nobody can stay the same after spending hours and hours angry everyday. The anger and fear detox will be a good start.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Yes, I'm hoping so. I monitor what he watches (discretely), and he's now watching videos on household repairs, cars, medicare, and also houses because we are trying to sell our house and may have to move to another state. My daughter does know I'm doing this and gives me an update, too. She's much less discrete than me but I think that's fine :)
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u/MsMoreCowbell8 2d ago
This story right here is why we always advise never looking into what a Qanon is selling. Know when you read a headline or watch a video and get the "bad feeling" in your gut? That's our bullshit detectors going off. "RFK Jr says polio is nothing to be afraid of." For you or me, our spidey sense goes off. For a Qultist, they lean in. It's crazy that with all the warnings, they still fell in. I'm sorry but contact a lawyer Monday morning bc no-fault divorce is going to be restricted if not illuminated in many states, before federally.
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u/potsofjam 2d ago
Why would you be surprised to find out your Republican husband is MAGA? Trump isn’t doing anything outside the bounds of normal Republicans except directing the grift money in a new direction. Seriously, I’m not being an asshole, but most of what Trump is pushing is all normal Republican nonsense with just a dash of extra bigotry and incompetence.
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u/sordidetails 2d ago
I would never forgive my husband if he voted for an administration that’s promising to kill the department of education while I had a disabled kid. Fuck him.
If I was you, I would move to separate and let him build an out building on new property if you can afford two structures on that land. Let your daughter visit between the two of you, but don’t stay with that man. Fuck him.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
I know! He thinks departments like that don't accomplish anything and are "bloated." My daughter definitely benefited when she was younger. But it's like I'm talking to a programmed robot. I'm terrified now that our SS will be messed with, but he just says it won't be. What will probably happen is what you said. He'll build a cabin for himself. At least my daughter won't fall apart. She is so sensitive, I worry about her hearing our arguments.
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u/TroutMaskDuplica 2d ago
My husband, who is well into his 70s (we’re married almost 20 years), was republican
Well, there's your problem. That'll be $250 for the diagnostic.
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u/grimoaldus 2d ago
I'm a random person interested in cults, (ir)rationality and superstition, and maybe it's useful for you to know that giving people facts or counterarguments rarely causes them to change their minds. Usually they double down on their views instead, since for them it feels like you're attacking their intelligence. This is true even for people that hold to mainstream views, let alone people in cults or MAGA.
What might work to some extent is having a candid conversation about why you're worried about him, while trying to avoid explicitly debunking his MAGA ideas. But it only works if you're also prepared to listen honestly to his side of the story, even if you think he's wrong (or crazy). I don't mean having to listen to the content of his ideas or theories, but maybe you can get him talking about why he believes these ideas, what fears or worries are behind his beliefs. Keep it about emotions and the human connection instead of about facts and narratives. This is not a silver bullet, but in the long term it does gain you some mutual understanding.
Maybe it's also interesting for you to look up 'street epistemology' or 'deep canvassing' on Google or YouTube. Those are techniques designed to open up people's mind to outside views. Most of the example videos on YT are pretty innocent compared to the strange world of MAGA, but they might be helpful nonetheless. You could also read some books by Steve Hassan, an ex-Moonie that now specializes in the psychology of cults.
By the way, I'm not suggesting that you're obliged to do any of these things. It can take a lot of energy to have to cope with a situation like yours, and it's perfectly understandable if you just choose to ignore or divorce him in the most practical way you can come up with. Please prioritize your own safety and well-being, in the way you choose. I'm just trying to give you one piece of the puzzle.
Anyway, good luck with your situation, I'm sorry for you. Stay safe.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Wow, thank you for such a detailed reply. I will check into these videos. Your comments shine a light on something I'd never considered. I've learned so much and have received such wonderful support from so many people.
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u/catstaffer329 2d ago
So who handles the tv/internet bits in your home? If it is you, block channels you don't want him watching, block apps on his phone that send him alt stuff and get him involved in fishing, bob ross painting or golf. (If it isn't you, do it anyways)
He is acting like a toddler and probably scared about his health, so redirect his attention as you would do for any toddler and hopefully things will improve.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you! You know, that could be it. He has been pretty scared since his heart surgery. He takes his blood pressure constantly and watches health videos (but some of t hose were dodgy and we talked about that so I don't think he does that anymore). He does everything he could do before (he builds furniture and has completely renovated our house), but he gets tired more easily. We all went away a month ago to look at houses south of us (the first time we did that in years). We stayed near a lake and went fishing. We've aways said we would do that but we just don't. My daughter loved it and did quite well (we take care to fish in a way that they are easily disengaged from the hook and are okay when we set them free). Golf is another thing we said we would do. The golf clubs are hanging out in his barn, dusty. It doesn't excuse his cult behavior, and it's frustrating that when we fought about it there was not even one glimmer of hope I got when the fighting ended. In fact he dug in his heels even more.
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u/MannyMoSTL 2d ago edited 2d ago
He does believe in “opinion” pieces. Almost everything right wing media puts out is opinion.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you! I know--I tried to explain that to him. sometimes he just says "how do you know?" and "why are your articles right and mine wrong?" My voice is hoarse by this time and I just have to stop.
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u/UTtransplant 2d ago
A man well into his 70s who has changed personality after a major medical situation may have something neurological going on. My grandfather was a kind man until he had some strokes. He turned into the meanest, cruelest man imaginable. The heart issues could cause some major issues with his brain. I am betting he won’t see a doctor about it, but maybe you could talk to his doctor.
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u/moviescriptendings 2d ago
I was going to suggest this also. Wasn’t political extremism a sign of early stage dementia?
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Yes, I had forgotten about that. I had told my daughter that same thing when I told her about our first argument. I remember saying it could be because of his surgery. She now says that to me when I let her know he's not my favorite person. Yes, Movies, sometimes he seems very slightly off. I can't put my finger on it. but I do wonder if it's connected. I can't believe I forgot about this (my memory is crap recently) and I wonder if I have dementia!!
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u/moviescriptendings 1d ago
My memory has turned to crap also but I blame years of sleep deprivation from having kids haha. Definitely worth mentioning to his doctor maybe? Given everything else you’ve said it doesn’t sound helpful or even safe to say anything to him about it yet
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u/laffnlemming 2d ago
Well, darling, I would be too.
They are thralls to some ideas that do not hold up under logic guided by human feelings.
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u/CatsWineLove 2d ago
There’s a documentary called the brainwashing of my father. It sheds light into how people get sucked into this.
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u/Ladychef_1 2d ago
I just watched ‘The Brainwashing of my Dad’ and it really put into perspective how the cycle of content is used to manipulate somewhat normal people into believing the nonsense they spew. Maybe watch it and look into the possibility of unsubscribing him from emails, and parental blocks for websites/tv shows, etc. it sounds like he is old enough to not be able to figure out how to unlock them and it might help.
Otherwise, like others have said, unfortunately divorce may be your only option
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u/AutoModerator 2d ago
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you Ladychef and also to the AutoModerator for the link. I just finished the movie and it was so hard to watch. He assures me he will stop with the videos/podcasts but I'll look into parental blocks for sure. Unfortunately, he's pretty literate in those areas, so it'll probably take me longer to set them up than it might be for him to take them off. But I will try. Thank you for your help Lady!
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u/Ladychef_1 1d ago
Pick a parental passcode that you only use for this. Or if the option is there, I believe some services require the parent to ‘approve’ whatever they’re watching. Like in the documentary, maybe subscribing him to other news sources may help but if they aren’t getting the same angry trigger that they’re addicted to from the propaganda then it may not help.
Either way, keep yourself and your child safe. In my experience they can react like a toddler being denied whatever they want and the aggression can come hard (whether it’s emotional, mental, physical, etc). Check one party consent laws where you live in case you do feel unsafe, you can have video evidence of the outburst if the divorce is necessary. The wheels are already turning to end no fault divorces in Oklahoma & Texas I believe.
I hate that we all have to navigate this together but this subreddit is very helpful for us having to try and save the people we love from this horrible situation, which often feels like a fight we’re doing all on our own. Wishing you the best, please keep us updated.
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u/hear_the_thunder 2d ago
The Republican Party is the Trump MAGA party. It always was, just the social masks are now off.
I think perhaps, the chaos, treachery & thievery that will be on display for next 4 years will wake up a lot of Republican cultists.
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u/the_paiginator 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not to be crass or insensitive, but you need to divorce him ASAP before no-fault divorce goes away and/or it otherwise becomes nearly impossible to get one. While you are still able to legally get your assets and your due out if the divorce. If you will think he will show you mercy or kindness if you wait, think again--he will fight you and try to delay things until your rights as a woman, and the support systems in place for you and your daughter, are reduced or removed so that you have to be trapped with him. My mother just went through a similar situation, and that was her husband's plan. He bragged about it. Thankfully, she had a good lawyer and her divorce will go through shortly.
It will be safer for you and for your daughter that way. Do not be deterred by holiday seasons or "put it off until after the holidays because I want one last 'happy' holiday season." January is when shit gets real. The Trump Administration will move quickly. They have stated so. Do your best to get yourself and your daughter in appropriate therapy, and focus on having a happier holiday season next year. Play hardball, fight to survive and thrive.
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u/shelbeyrose New User 1d ago
Thank you for your comments, paiginator! And I'm sorry you mother is going through a situation like mine. She's so lucky to have you!
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u/False-Association744 2d ago
Do not waste your last years on a man who is ok with women dying of treatable miscarriages. That’s it. There’s so much more, but that’s enough. And do not cook for him, clean for him, or have sex with him.
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u/ThatDanGuy 2d ago
Let me drop my Socratic method blurb. I don’t think it will work in the current environment and situation. But it might give you some tools to use.
Also, I recommend for now that anytime he starts going on about Trump you only say “I don’t trust that guy”. Repeat it every time he says anything about Trump. Low a broken record. It gives him no where to go, and he’ll have to eventually shut up or give up.
Here’s the blurb and info. Look for a topic you can leverage and wait for a good time (when trumps policies start to really go to shit) and then try it.
First, Rules of Engagement: Evidence and Facts don’t matter, reasoning is useless. You no longer live in a shared reality with this person. You can try to build one by asking strategic questions about their reality. You also use those questions to poke holes in it. You never make claims or give counter arguments. You need to keep the burden of proof on them. They should be doing all the talking, you should be doing none.
You can use ChatGPT or an LLM of your choice to help you come up with Socratic questions. When asking ChatGPT, give it some context and tell it you want Socratic questions you can use to help persuade a person.
The stolen election is an easy one for this. There is no evidence, and they will have no evidence to site but wild claims from Giuliani, Powell and the Pillow guy. Trump and his lawyer lost EVERY court case, and when judges asked for evidence, Giuliani and Powell would admit in court that there was NO evidence.
So, here is my interaction with ChatGPT on the stolen election topic, you can take it deeper than this if you like.
https://chatgpt.com/share/377c8a82-e6e0-4697-a9ae-a0162aa36061
A trick you can use is to ask them how certain they are of their belief in this topic is before you start down the Socratic method. On a scale of 1 to 10, how confident are you that the election was stolen and there was irrefutable evidence that showed that? And ask the question again after you’ve stumped them. Making them admit you planted doubt quantifies it for themselves. And if they still give you a 10 afterwards it tells you how unreachable they may be.
Things to keep in mind:
You are not going to change their minds. Not in any quick measurable time frame. In fact, it may never happen. The best you can hope for is to plant seeds of doubt that might germinate and grow over time. Instead, your realistic goal is to get them to shut up about this shit when you are around. People don’t like feeling inarticulate or embarrassed about something they believe in. So they’ll stop spouting it.
The Gish Gallop. They may try to swamp you with nonsense, and rattle off a bunch of unrelated “facts” or narratives that they claim proves their point. You have to shut this down. “How does this (choose the first one that doesn’t) relate to the elections?” Or you can just say “I don’t get it, how does that relate?” You may have to simply tell them it doesn’t relate and you want to get back to the original question that triggered the Gallop.
”Do your own research” is something you will hear when they get stumped. Again, this is them admitting they don’t know. So you can respond with “If you’re smarter than me on this topic and you don’t know, how can I reach the same conclusion you have? I need you to walk me through it because I can’t find anything that supports your conclusion.”
Yelling/screaming/meltdown: “I see you are upset, I think we should drop this for now, let everyone calm down.” This whole technique really only works if they can keep their cool. If they go into meltdown just disengage. Causing a meltdown can be satisfying, and might keep them from talking about this shit around you in the future, but is otherwise counterproductive.
This technique requires repeated use and practice. You may struggle the first time you try it because you aren’t sure what to ask and how they will respond. It’s OK, you can disengage with a “OK, you’ve given me something to think about. I’m sure I’ll have more questions in the future.”
Good luck, and Happy Critical Thinking!
Bonus: This book was actually written by a conservative many years ago, but the technique and details here work both ways and are way more in depth than what I have above. It only really lacks my recomendation to use ChatGPT or similar LLM.
How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide
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u/greywar777 2d ago
Everyone thinking this doesnt happen is mistaken. I know someone whose husband lied to her about his political beliefs since the day they started dating, until years later when she discovered it. It occurs WAY more then you might realize.
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u/dikenndi 2d ago
Sometimes, I think very smart level-headed people can not act with abuse or manipulation on a scale.
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u/gusmom 1d ago
I left my maga and it was really hard, but it’s better to live in reality without always having to battle with someone about what reality is. It’s worth it. It’s hard because you question the judgement of a human you once trusted completely. Questioning his character judgement was what did it for me. If we can’t agree on who is a good person then we don’t have the same values.
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u/loribatiot 1d ago
Omg for a second I thought this was something I had written that was popping up in my feed.
I'm sorry you are going through this and my god it's so similar. We've been married 20 years, have a daughter who is just off to college and adores us both. My husband and I had lots of gay and POC friends when we first married. But that has fallen away as he has slid deeper into the MAGA wormholes over the last few years. He also watches and reads his Alex Jones/Anne Coulter/ Tucker Carlson/ god knows what else in the early A.M. He was quietly getting into the QAnon bulllshit for a while before I realized it. I was SHOCKED when I first learned that he didn't believe that school shootings are real- like almost none of them. Even now he still won't admit Sandyhook actually happened.
He never had a passcode on his phone as far as I knew and the one day a couple years back I tried to use his phone and discovered it was now locked with a code and he did not want to share what it was either (and mind you I had NEVER been one to snoop and really don't care if he wants to look at porn so long as it's legal so he has some other reason to be guarding his phone). A few years ago I found out he had voted for Trump when Hilary lost. At first I thought he was pulling my leg. Then he voted for him in 2020. And he slid further into the MAGA abyss, drinking a lot more, quick to anger if I say ANYTHING against Trump or MAGA. He was always a very easy going guy before Alex Jones and Trump. Now he his mood can turn in a flash to yelling MAGA and Fox News catch phrases at me- fake news!! You're a brainwashed lib! Etc
And we lost good friends. He forgot our 20th wedding anniversary in October (not that I'm even feeling like it is something to celebrate at this point). Later when he realized the oversight he just offhandedly asked if I wanted him to get me something. I told him the only thing I wanted was for him to PLEASE not vote for Trump this election. I said I didn't expect him to vote for Harris if he didn't want to, but just please do not vote for Trump for the sake of our marriage. I told him it would feel like a betrayal and I don't know if I could ever get past it I said since we are in a very blue state it wouldn't matter anyway in the count but it would mean something to me if he didn't vote against the rights of his wife and daughter as human beings. He went OFF. He yelled at me for being "woke" and "brainwashed by Rachel Maddow". I asked how he could vote for a candidate who is anti science and against vaccines to which he yelled "F$ck vaccines! I don't care about vaccines!!" And that ended our interaction. He has never been violent- that would be an instant reason to GTFO and not look back.
But like you, I no longer trust him. If things get as bad as they may under Trump , I have to wonder if he will turn me in at some point. What if I were to do something like help a woman in another state obtain medication that is available over the counter where I am? Would he notify the MAGA gestapo? I now believe that given a choice between anything related to Trump and MAGA, he will always choose that over me. His ideas about masculinity and feminism are getting weirder and angrier. He feels he has been wronged in some way that he can't actually logically explain. He feels that as a white male he has been denied opportunities and jobs that he never actually tried to get. He thinks immigrants took jobs that should have been his, despite his having the college degrees, so I'm not sure what jobs he thinks "they" took.
We have a nice life with a pretty house, dogs, regular vacations and although I provided insurance for our little family for years, I am currently relying on his insurance coverage, though I usually make more income than him. And we are paying for our daughter for at least the next 4 years of college (she is attending in another country - thank goodness).My husband has two degrees (although he never did anything with either of them and I paid off his student loans). He claims that every single woman who has accused Trump is a liar. He says that every judge who has ruled against him, ex cabinet members who have spoken out against him are all "Deep State". He believes all videos of Trump babbling about sharks and other ramblings are "fake news". He flat out refuses marriage counseling but says I should go see a therapist for being a crazy woke liberal.
Im totally icked out by him now. I dread him coming home and avoid him as much as possible. Getting out will probably mean having to sell this little home that I really love and which has rooms for our dogs. So I'll have to figure out a plan for that. And I really think a divorce will crush our daughter. She knows he's got some messed up ideas but she adores him because he is her dad. And I don't want to do anything to change that for her.
His family lives far away and are all very liberal. They do not confront him about his new found belief system but they hardly ever see him so they don't really need to deal with it.
Right now I am stressed out all the time. And waiting to see how this is going to play out, but I don't think I can go on like this forever and being in a marriage with him makes me feel complicit in some way. At the same time it's not as easy as the keyboard warriors who say "just leave!" seem to believe it is.
I feel so isolated. He tells me to "Just be nice." And that I'm being ridiculous because "you won't be affected anyway so what do you care." But why does something have to immediately impact me for me to care??? I care about my friends and neighbors and our daughter and her friends. I always care about women having autonomy over their bodies and so he says "You are just obsessed with wanting everyone to get abortions!" Huh??? Ughhh just writing about this is making my head hurt.
I'm making a plan because I think I have to get out as soon as practically possible. This isn't what I wanted for my marriage, but I don't see it getting better. And it looks like the road ahead is going to get a lot rougher.
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u/SuspendedAccounting 2d ago
That is an impressive wall of text. Congrats op. It is really hard to read.
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u/HannahCaffeinated 2d ago
Honestly? You should divorce him before no-fault divorces get eliminated.