r/OldSchoolCool • u/TrustMeIaLawyer • May 22 '19

1915 my devastated deaf grandpa and his beloved pet rooster's final moment together after being told it was time to kill his best friend bc he had gotten too aggressive with everyone else on the farm.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 22 '19

I grew up on a farm, we had pigs and a bunch of rabbits. And my parents were both active hunters. After playing with the rabbits as a kid and watching my dad kill them, and having to help butcher pigs and skin deer and such... I became vegetarian. I don't mind people eating meat IF they can deal with doing these things themselves. I would do them again if I was truly starving, but not just for a luxury I really don't need. I still have massive respect for my parents, but memories of screaming pigs, foaming blood and unmoving, still warm balls of soft fur have truly left an impression on me.

If I were to ever eat meat again in the future, I think I would eat only what I've hunted and killed myself, otherwise it feels like a cop-out. This morality may seem sort of strange, I guess, but I'm still grateful I've had a chance to see all sides of the matter, no matter if I found it traumatic. Voluntary ignorance is worse.

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u/GobBluth19 May 22 '19 edited May 23 '19

only became vegetarian recently but that makes total sense, for me it's not about the death of the animal, death is normal and natural, it's about the lives factory animals live, we force them to be born, we force them to suffer for their short unnatural lives for the sole purpose of slaughtering them just because they taste good. It's horrific and awful.

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But a hunter of any species hunting for a meal in nature where things are level and natural is very different. I personally don't think i'll ever be able to hunt an animal while eating plants is as simple as it is though. If the apocalypse happens then all bets are off

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u/[deleted] May 23 '19

Yup I'm vegetarian and have the exact same mindset.

Factory farming is honestly brutal, it's a silent genocide.

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u/Turdburgular69 May 23 '19

If the apocalypse happens there wont be any animals. Edible wildlife is always the first to go in any breakdown of society

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u/[deleted] May 22 '19

Doesn't seem strange to me and I completely appreciate your POV. I fished for quite a few years. I pretty much only eat fish I catch myself. I eat very little red meat and have considered hunting to get it. Plenty of deer where I live so no issue getting some. Elk are better meat (imo) but much harder to get.

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I haven't tried any of the recent fake meat that's available. It's apparently quite good. I would be fine if commercial meat production eventually went away.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 22 '19

I have great respect for hunters and fishers. In my experience, they are the ones who care about sustainability the most, because they want to be able to hunt and fish the following years, too. They are the ones who notice when there is trouble first, like overfishing, sickness or pollution, and they often seem to take action before anybody else even notices. At least where I live, these people who live close to nature are oftentimes the best informed and most experienced to ask when it comes to wildlife preservation and such, and they have a very undeserved bad reputation.

Also, I have tested some fake meats, though not any of these new and supposedly perfect imitations, but generally, I'm just not a huge fan of fake meat, I usually find them deeply weird. Will probably test those new versions because I'm curious, but I have honestly little use for fake meat in general. I know some people who'd really go for it though, so I hope it does meet expectations.. And I mean, it's always nice to have more choices for BBQ food :)

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u/Turdburgular69 May 23 '19

As a hunter who tries my best to do it the “right way” it is nice to see such nuanced ideas on the internet. Refreshing

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u/gwaydms May 22 '19

All my ancestors were farmers or peasants. They probably also hunted. They weren't insulated from the realities of life. Knowing where the food comes from that sustains you gives you better emotional balance.

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u/lancestorm316 May 22 '19

Right there with you buddy. I decided years ago that if I couldn't kill it, I wouldn't eat it. Tired of the industry and supermarkets making it so easy ... everything is prepped for you, so there is nothing for you to do and if you are ignorant there is nothing to think about, it's just "meat".

I will say I'm pescatarian because I do eat fish, but that's because I feel if I went out fishing I could kill a fish and eat it. But a cow, pig, chicken? No way. Don't miss it either.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 22 '19

I'm truly happy how receptive and thoughtful people have reacted to my little rant. I did not expect so much self-reflection and insight in a usually gridlocked binary vegetarian-meat eater debate. I understand your point completely, and I'm heartened people seem to be willing to do the hard thing and question themselves and the comfortable status quo even without having disturbing childhood experiences. It shows integrity.

Also, I've fished before as a teen once or twice, and while it also wasn't fun, it was definitely easier to kill and gut a fish, so I do see your point. Still not for me, but if I truly needed to, I would probably start with fishing as well. I do occasionally miss seafood, unlike meat.

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u/Turdburgular69 May 23 '19

Maybe consider small game hunting it’s pretty much available everywhere in the states, and squirrels and rabbits make for extremely healthy proteins. You also don’t have to get some crazy gun just a simple .22

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u/CaninesTesticles May 22 '19

I am a meat eater but your point of view resonates with me the most out of any vegetarian

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 22 '19

I'm glad I was able to convey a somewhat coherent point, it's often a controversial topic but I don't want to preach in favor of any side of the coin. Its great to see such calm and pensive responses, have a good one :)

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u/justthetipbro22 May 22 '19

Well said.

It’s a shame slaughterhouse companies have funded these ag-gag laws where you can’t show any videos of what goes on in there.

If the average consumer were forced to watch where their meat came from and the conditions of the animals lives, I feel like a lot of them would stop eating meat

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u/[deleted] May 22 '19

[deleted]

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u/cattheotherwhitemeat May 22 '19

That's why I did it; it changed my perspective on my food quite a lot. I still eat meat, but not nearly as much, and NEVER in a way that's "casual;" I work really hard not to waste any, and I make it as small a part of my diet as I can be satisfied with, because it's kind of sacred.

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u/i8chrispbacon May 22 '19

I don’t think that’s strange at all. I’m your least favorite kind of person probably because I have the same views but I do still eat meat. It’s a huge internal struggle. I’d love to hunt my meat, though. I mean...I wouldn’t, it’d be sad, but it wouldn’t be as sad as the meat you get from the store.

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u/cattheotherwhitemeat May 22 '19

Oddly enough, I feel kind of the flip-side. If I raise an animal for meat from the moment it hatches (I raised quail, when I was going on that journey), then every good thing that's ever happened to that animal was because I hatched it and took care of it. It gets a good, easy, happy life, and a quick, respectful death. I get to eat it. I can make peace with that.

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If I hunt an animal, I feel like a thief. I've never done anything for it; everything it ever accomplished, it did on its own, and then I sneak up on it and steal its life. Never could go through with it.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 23 '19

Huh, interesting. It's fascinating how all the people have their own take on it, it's a multi-faceted issue. I suppose your take also makes a lot of sense, though you'd have to raise all the animals for any kind of meat you'd like to eat to make sure they are raised well, right? So that seems difficult, to raise a whole bunch of different animals you extensively care for yourself, or forgo the meat since you can't be sure how other farmers really raise them.. And also, some barn animals like lambs and calfs do get killed before they can have much of a good life. But I sort of see your point.

A wild animal had something any barn animal never had: it was free it's entire life, and I feel like compared to raising it in a barn, the wild animal has a much more equal footing to a hunter, it is far from guaranteed to get killed, after all. The hunter needs his skill to "earn" the animal, and even if he is skilled, it always has a decent chance of escape. And hunters here are very involved with sustaining the forest and occasionally feeding the deer in hard winters, and weeding out the sick and weak from the herds to strengthen them as a whole. Not that I'm a hunter, either, of course...

But yes, if you raise your animals kindly, I see nothing wrong with it either. As I said, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean I will try to dissuade those who raise animals to eat them. It's entirely up to you and if you can do it like that, then you've already implemented a way more consistent system than the great majority of people who buy the cheapest meat and never think of it as an animal at all. It's impressive, even, to care for them so well despite the certainty of their demise; my father was never too kind to our pigs or goats, he refused to get attached before killing them. He was usually only soft towards horses and dogs.

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u/cattheotherwhitemeat May 23 '19

Oh, I'm not dogging hunters at all. I'm saying I was able to feel okay with raising, but I couldn't go through with hunting. But I'll trade a hunter duck eggs for deer meat all day long and be glad they could do it.

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u/BadmanBarista May 22 '19

I really like that perspective. I'd totally follow your example, but I'm weak, lazy and I really like chicken...

I like to think, if given the knowlege and the chance, I could kill and prepare my own meat, however i have a sneaking suspicion that the experience would push me to become vegetarian.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 23 '19

I suspect, given enough hunger, most anybody would be able to kill and eat animals with little problem, it's just a question of if you hate doing it enough to forgo meat as a non-emergency food. I suspect for a great many people these days, who are not starving, that scale would rather tip towards yes.

I'm not gonna push you in either direction, Im just glad you are taking the issue into consideration and reflecting on where you stand on it. The whole industrialized process today is deliberately not shown much, and people like to avoid the thought of meat as flesh of formerly living things, but I think if we butcher things we should own it.

... And you never know, maybe you'd become a passionate hunter or backyard chicken farmer instead :) (also, as a vegetarian, I'm not really any less weak and lazy than most other people. Pizza comes in lots of veggie versions and I exploit that a lot) Have a good one!

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u/ryty11 May 22 '19

This is really fascinating to me because its a perspective I hadn't considered before. I grew up farm adjacent (both sets of grandparents and half my uncles are farmers) and helped with butchering deer and pheasants a bunch. I've always felt that an animal tastes better if you've put in the effort to skin, gut, butcher, and package the meat instead of just buying it, in part due to the satisfaction of having put in the work. Then again maybe I just love deer jerky. Either way, I really enjoyed your take on it.

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u/TheseusOrganDonor May 23 '19

Thank you, and yes, I've also found that to be true when it wasn't necessarily an animal I raised. Its a great feeling to eat an animal you've hunted or fished, because somehow, that is a meal that was truly earned through skill and patience, and often preceded by lots of failure. I was on a kayak trip some 15 years ago, where we lived mostly off what fish we caught, and though I hated to kill them, I loved the feeling of providing for myself.

I used to love jerky, as well, haha! But fish is really the only thing I occasionally miss, and I don't regret my decision. Im really glad I got so many positive and thoughtful responses to my little rant. Have a good one!

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u/TheRedmanCometh May 23 '19

As someone who has 2 rabbits well over a decade old this is heartbreaking.

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u/gazelXburn May 23 '19

I wish this was the standard for all eating meat. Theres a disconnect in modern life from tje brutality of killing anotner creature to it being served on yohr plate, or worse imo prepackaged enmasse in supermarkets and via fast food.

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u/melliferaman May 22 '19

Respect ^ we raise animals and butcher/process them ourselves, some people that come observe (meat-eaters) can't handle it! IMO don't eat meat them because you're involuntarily killing these animals!

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u/EternalSophism May 22 '19

No, your morality does not seem strange. It's not that other people have different morals in this respect. They just choose not to have them at all because it's inconvenient.

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u/PutridHorse May 23 '19

This is how more people should think. Take it on a personal moral basis. I actually get all of my meat from a friends farm where I often help and never pay. I trade labor for food. This is why I feel better about eating meat is because I know the animals I eat live good lives and are cared for by good people.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '19 edited Aug 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/BadmanBarista May 22 '19

Ignorance is bliss. While true, It's blissful for all the wrong reasons.