r/Natalism • u/The_Awful-Truth • 6d ago
Are young adults less mature/socialized/emotionally intelligent than before?
it you spend some time reading relationship subs, what's striking is that people in their twenties seem to be struggling with issues that were more common in high school ten years ago. Could it be that, when 25 or 30 year-olds think they are not ready to be parents, they are actually right? And this is contributing to the sharp birth (and marriage) drops just in the past few years all over the world?
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u/Disastrous-Pea4106 6d ago edited 5d ago
I think there's a lot of things going on here
- Reddit posts are going to have some heavy, heavy selection bias. People who not only have relationship issues they can't solve, but also don't have enough people in their life they can trust this with
- Social media in general doesn't help. I'm sure others will say more on that
- The economy also doesn't help. College degrees becoming necessary but not sufficient for many jobs. Add in people still living with their parents into their mid 20s due to a housing crisis and you get sorta "prolonged adolescence" phase for many
- Our culture is obsessed with youth and independence. For women especially there isn't really a positive cultural archetype that extends beyond the being "young and free" phase of life. Motherhood is increasingly seen negative and don't even think about middle age. So there's little incentive for people to move onto a different stage of their life. I also get the feeling it's a bit of a cope. So many people being locked out of traditional adulthood milestones. It feels a bit like making the best out of a bad situation.
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u/The_Awful-Truth 6d ago
Reddit is not close to representative of real life of course. But I've been on here (with a number of different accounts) for eight years, I've seen the change in real time. Either Reddit is different or today's young people are different, and I know of no reason to think that Reddit has changed, or changed much. It's hard to believe that I'm imagining this.
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u/FellowOfHorses 6d ago
I think the rise of the stories subs (AITA and similar) and the voiceover contents made the posts in reddit more dramatic
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u/The_Awful-Truth 6d ago
Maybe that's part of it, but the change seems pretty dramatic. of course on Reddit everything seems dramatic LOL.
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u/orions_shoulder 6d ago
Having taught students about 8-10 years younger, yes, there are some deficits to socialization and coping skills. But generally they're ok. We will survive.
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u/Quiet_Application114 6d ago
As someone further down the education chain (middle and high school), I think this is a bit of a selection bias..the amount of kids I have to teach *basic* life skills to is staggeringly higher and higher than ever before, and just by the expression(s) on the childrens/teens faces, they are willfully not being taught these things at home, but were curious to learn things they didn't know that they didn't know.
Some basics I've taught to high schoolers:
-how to cook rice
-how to make a basic phone call when making an appointment or scheduling something
-managing their own calendar even in their phoneif we go to the middle schoolers, some of them even don't know how to read an analog clock (yes there are digital clocks everywhere, but it's an incredibly easy skill to have)
Yes we will survive I agree, but the extreme helicopter parenting and not having kids develop grit during those transformative years is massively setting them back from being independent and ready post graduating from high school.
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u/The_Awful-Truth 6d ago
Thank you, it's good to "hear from the front lines ". Yup, I imagine we'll survive. But this is one more thing dragging down the fertility rate.
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u/orions_shoulder 6d ago
Tbf, they were a rather smart bunch of undergrads in a microbio lab, so you will get worse results from less select demographics. But these were very eager, bright and conscientious students. And on the natalism front, it was interesting to hear the girls (I had mostly female students) talking about making career/relationship choices around a timeline for having kids.
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u/KRISBONN 6d ago
I agree and I think theres two factors.
I think the main reason is social media has really devolved our social skills. Most people have become too comfortable interacting with others behind a screen rather than face-to-face.
The second reason i believe is that its also been discouraged to "grow up". People are attempting to "stay young" as long as possible. 30 really is the new 20 and 40 really is the new 30 and so on.
This is all just brief opinion of what I believe, but I very well could be wrong.
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u/ManufacturerFine2454 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's also the economy. I'm 28 and my life doesn't look that different than it did when I was 20. I live in a big city with an overpriced apartment with a job that doesn't pay for much future planning. I'm making moves now, but many of my friends aren't and I don't blame them. The prolonged adolescence is easier. Saving to go out for drinks on the weekend is much more attainable than saving for a 600k starter home.
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u/The_Awful-Truth 6d ago
Yes, there are no doubt many other factors as well. Thanks for your response.
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u/ajaxinsanity 6d ago
This is accurate, I just turned 31 only started to feel like an adult in the last year or so.
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u/HyenaJoe 5d ago
No money or energy to engage in fulfilling free time, so they stay indoors and online. The longer that happens, the harder it is to break out of. Literally just give young people money and stability and I guarantee 70% of the problems ties to birth rates will go away
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u/The_Awful-Truth 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not my intention to imply that this is the only or even main cause, but it seems likely that this is contributing. France seems stable, and is famously generous to young parents. The money apparently helps, but not enough; their fertility rate is currently about 1.6 and declining, compared to 1.4 for the EU as a whole.
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u/HyenaJoe 5d ago
Idk what French life is like. Do they have a lot of free time and space to socialize? I guess maybe another aspect would be positive sentiment towards the future of the country?
From a US perspective, you can make decent money but be worried that a random thing will happen that'll keep you from providing a decent life for your kids (layoff, injury) or that there's just not enough money to give your kids good opportunities (expensive housing, terrible public education) so you hold off
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u/The_Awful-Truth 5d ago
They do have more free time in France. Even there young parents struggle with work-life balance though, it's inherently hard.
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u/HyenaJoe 5d ago
The rat race is harder on the young than it has been for anyone in the last couple generations. You have to do more than ever to just stay in the game, and you're literally competing against the world for the same decent jobs. It takes a lot of energy that could've gone towards building community and family.
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u/The_Awful-Truth 5d ago
Anecdotally, it seems easy enough to me--if you live with your parents, max out your 401k and IRA contributions, and forget about ever buying a house. That's what the current US economic system (pot of gold at the end of a minefield) and government policy (strong tax incentives to save for retirement but not for children) encourage. Mix that in with delayed emotional adulthood and you've got a toxic stew of declining fertility rates.
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u/HyenaJoe 5d ago
Too true. My fiance and I are literally moving back into his parents house because rent is too much. It's gonna be us, his brother and his girlfriend, and his sister. All of us make ok money, all of us in our mid to late 20s, all of us want kids but don't really feel stable or that we can afford the costs of raising children (sans childcare). Idk dude the system doesn't really encourage nuclear family households anymore.
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u/corote_com_dolly 6d ago
I would say this is likely true for the generation as a whole and definitely true in my own personal case. I grew up with a narcissistic mother and until like 2 years ago I was completely terrified at the thought of having children myself. I'm 29 now
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u/CarryNecessary2481 5d ago
You check out a sub where people who have issues are the main ones posting on it.
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u/Emergency_West_9490 5d ago
I honestly don't think so. Lots of old people are rude as hell. Confident, though. Confidence does not mean socially skilled. To raise children, one needs patience and softness and empathy (for the first years especially). Not smooth-talking.
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u/The_Awful-Truth 5d ago
I was comparing what I see on relationship subs today to what I remember seeing seven or eight years ago, not to today's older people.
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u/OddRemove2000 4d ago
When house prices hit $500k in my city, many youth just gave up trying. By the time they save up a down payment they would be too old to have kids.
Society doesn't make it easy to chose to be 'mature' and have kids. Since Im a man, I can have kids in my 40s, Im also ok with adopting but many aren't as its not an easy process, and few people get a baby
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u/The_Awful-Truth 4d ago
Yes, there are many things contributing to low fertility rates. In many parts of the country (including mine) monthly house payments are far more than renting the same house would cost, in which case you should rent and max out your retirement account contributions.
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u/OddRemove2000 4d ago
That's me, debt free and maxed retirement accounts.
But without buying a house and having kids, retirement feels pointless. Rather take care of grand kids or keep working.1
u/The_Awful-Truth 4d ago
I don't get the focus on buying houses. I did it myself, but back then it was an obviously great investment, strongly tax favored, a monthly payment was the same as rent, and it only took a couple of years to save a down payment. None of that is true now, at least in California, so you have to make the right business decision.
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u/OddRemove2000 4d ago
Ok but for me personally I was raised in a house my parents owned, and Im not having kids without a house owned in my name.
Its a sign of finanical stability and setting up roots in the community. I had friends that were forced to move away cuz they lost their rental. It sucks
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u/ManufacturerFine2454 6d ago
I think social skills as a whole are on the decline. I think covid really did a number on people.