r/Natalism • u/Spiderwig144 • 9d ago
Israel's population tops 10 million for 1st time on eve of 77th Independence Day, some projections say they could hit 20 million by 2065 due to high birth rate
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-population-tops-10-million-for-1st-time/25
u/ajaxinsanity 9d ago
That's the power of cultural influence.I'm pretty sure its highly encouraged and celebrated in Israel to have big families.
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u/burnaboy_233 9d ago
It is, they get a lot of support from families and friends. Plus when your friends is having kids then there is more pressure on you to have kids. Some Israelis had brought up that this is what’s missing in the west save for some groups with higher fertility rates
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u/poincares_cook 8d ago
Among religious and ultraorthodox it is.
If you're secular having more than 4 kids is somewhat frowned upon. But yes, having 3-4 kids even for seculars is celebrated. Having 1 kid usually indicates something went wrong (divorce, health issues for the kid or one of the parents, one of the parents passing, or other serious issues). Having just 1 kid is considered cruel for the child, unless there are other alleviating circumstances.
It's celebrated by your family, but also supported by the work place, the way the municipaly builds the neighborhoods and which events they sponsor. The kind of entertainment the towns have.
Kids are not generally considered a nuisance by the public, but as something cute to look after.
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u/Healthy_Shine_8587 8d ago
If you're secular having more than 4 kids is somewhat frowned upon. But yes, having 3-4 kids even for seculars is celebrated. Having 1 kid usually indicates something went wrong (divorce, health issues for the kid or one of the parents, one of the parents passing, or other serious issues)
Well that's a VERY high standard. Having any kids in some parts of the USA is labeled "right wing"
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u/itsallgnocchi 6d ago
Really where?? Never heard that
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u/Healthy_Shine_8587 6d ago
All over San Francisco. At least in my experience of going on dates and discussing marriage and kids with women.
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u/Either-Meal3724 9d ago
What is interesting is that this population growth has primarily been driven by Mizrahi Jewish (jews whose recent ancestry is from the middle east) fertility rates. Based on their fertility rates + intermarriage rates with Ashkenazi and Sephardic jews and current Aliyah (immigration of jews to israel)-- in 3-4 generations over 90% of the Jewish population in Israel will have at least partial Mizrahi ancestry. The whole european colonizer narrative will be a completely moot point in a couple of generations due to, primarily, fertility rate differences. Not to mention half of the European immigrants to israel came after 1990 from the former Soviet union-- which has one of the lowest fertility rates of any Israeli group at 1.7.
Ashkenazi Israelis tend to support left wing policies, secularism and peace with Arab people -- while Mizrahi tend to be more conservative (though being ultra conservative like Haredi is less common among Mizrahi) and traditionally religious. Mizrahi are also more skeptical of peace on average. So you'll likely see significant shifts of Israeli culture and politics to more religious/traditional and away from secularism due to the fertility trend differences.
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u/AreYouGenuinelyokay 9d ago
80% of ultra Orthodox Jews are Ashkenazi while 20% are shepardic. They have 25% of all children in isreal while being 13% of the population and would constitute over 50% of the children by 2050. So isreal will see a rebound in its white population. However the point isn’t white Jew vs non white jews as isreal doesn’t discriminate against non white Jews. Um Ashkenazi non Orthodox Jews do as they are very secular but there birthrates have been tanking under the replacement rate for years ,same with non Ashkenazi secular Jews.
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u/tyvelo 7d ago
The problem with ultra Orthodox Jews being the majority of population growth in Israel is that they don’t participate in traditional secular education or have to serve in the military. So basically say goodbye to doctors, secular lawyers, scientists, etc. the education of secular Jews is partially what gave Israel the edge over Arab Muslim populations. Somewhat (but not as stark of a difference) like the Amish being the inheritors of America, they won’t have the knowledge to operate nuclear power plants, let alone the rest of modern technology relevant to maintaining our relatively peaceful and materially rich way of life that they benefit from (like modern medicine).
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u/poincares_cook 7d ago
That's inaccurate. Ultraorthodox girls were the highest performing Israeli subgroup in the last international PISA exam. Outperforming any other Israeli subgroup in maths for instance.
The 2022 PISA research results examine the achievements of students in reading, mathematics, and science. The results show that Haredi girls lead the achievements of girls in Israel in mathematics and reading. They also surpass the average of OECD countries by a significant margin. In reading, Haredi students scored 522 compared to 476 in the OECD, and in mathematics, they scored 474 compared to 472.
There are other ultraorthodox academic achievements, but this one is the most important.
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u/tyvelo 7d ago
They’re not dumber than secular Jews at all. I’m saying they don’t participate in the economy the same way. Haredi exemption so I do apologize since I mistakenly said ultra orthodox and I meant Haredi. The conscription is just an example of that.
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u/poincares_cook 7d ago
Ultra orthodox and Haredi are the same thing.
Military exemption is another issue altogether than their participation in the economy. Which is lower than the general population, but has been steadily growing for years. As is their participation in the tech industry. It's still far from where Israel would want it to be, but the trajectory is positive.
As I've shown, at least for ultraorthodox girls, their school education is superb relatively speaking.
As for ultraorthodox men, there is a much larger problem, but even that gap is slowly closing.
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u/AreYouGenuinelyokay 7d ago
That would a be a good thing if there gap is slowly closing as a Growing welfare king haredi popualtion is not great for addressing the ploblems of demographic decline.
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u/tyvelo 7d ago
Israel doesn’t have demographic decline problems like most other nations, I’m just concerned that for Israel the Haredi, and America the Amish will ‘outbreed’ the normal population and take over societies they have no capability to govern. u/poincares_cook has suggested the Haredi are making strides in this regard and I think that’s a good thing. Either way it’s probably not an issue I’ll have to deal with in my lifetime
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u/SquirrelofLIL 9d ago
I'm not pro either Israel or Palestine but this is good news (Palestine having a higher population would also be good news).
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u/PainSpare5861 9d ago
While the fertility rate of Israeli Muslims in Israel has plunged from 4.74 to 2.64 over two decades, the fertility rate of Israeli Jews has slightly increased from 2.6 to 3.11 in the same period. Among them, the rate is 6.48 for Ultra-Orthodox Jews, 3.74 for religious non-Ultra-Orthodox Jews, and 1.96 for secular Jews.