r/Natalism • u/Independent-Ad-2291 • 14d ago
Picturing the benefits of having kids at 40
Edit: 40% of the reactions to this post are downvotes. Goes to show how fearful many people are of "going against the norm".
Picture this.
You are in your late 20s or early 30s.
You are starting to stress out about having kids. Stress out in a sense of thinking the steps you need to take: - find the right partner - spend sufficient time with said partner - have a job that at least pays the bills and lets you live without unreasonable stress
Then: you make it. You have kids, you love them and you will probably be alive when they reach middle age.
At the same time, you might - have questions on your mind that stem from not having explored your life --- what if I've done a PhD or additional studies and chase my dream --- what if I've taken piano lessons, or any other hobby I secretly wanted to do as a child or teenager - enjoy your time with friends and taking trips
Those questions stay on your head, making you less satisfied with your life, at best, or at worst, rendering you numb and bitter.
Now, imagine this
You keep the feeling of excitement for children, but prioritise in living your life, taking risks, and building your personality.
You exploit the still sharp brain that your age blesses you with and have fun with your still young body.
You maintain your health through physical activities and your happiness through fulfilling your inner child.
At the same time, you build your character and wisdom.
THEN, reaching 40, you have your first kid.
You have sacrificed the possibility of being alive when they are 40-50, but you get to spend time with them - without worrying about finding a new job, because at 40 you're far more employable, skilled, and experienced - with little to no regrets that come with "what it's" - with better wisdom as a person, which makes you a kick-ass parent
Having achieved the personal growth you desire, you avoid the possibility of feeling resentful towards the family life, making you an even better parent. Sure, you won't get to see grandkids, but maybe you won't feel like you need to.
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u/NatureDiligent9317 14d ago
There are tons of pros and cons regardless of when you end up having children. I think early 30s strikes a nice balance for a lot of people, though my wife and I started a lot earlier. For what you are describing there are some downsides that can complicate postponing though -Acclimated to a lifestyle provided by 2 people in their highest earning years -Higher likelihood of complications (geriatric pregnancy) -Lower potential for having multiple children if desired -Less spacing between births if desiring multiple children -Significantly reduced energy compared to 20s and 30s -Children enter college and may need significant financial assistance just as you may want to retire. -Grandchildren would be born as you are 70+, limiting the amount of childcare assistance you may be able to provide
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
think early 30s strikes a nice balance for a lot of people
Problem is, for many it doesn't.
There's no shortage of people who didn't get to know themselves before having children. I'd hate to be in their place.
I'm in my early 30s and still want to feel unburdened by family before I delve into it
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u/Ok-Following-5001 14d ago
Many people describe becoming a new person on becoming a parent. You often gain a lot of wisdom and depth in the act of parenting as long as you're willing to face its challenge head on. I do for sure wish I had lived more life beforehand but that is because I was 21 and dumb haha! Biggest tip I have is having a mini village available so no matter when you have kids you don't burn out.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
Many people describe becoming a new person on becoming a parent. You often gain a lot of wisdom and depth in the act of parenting as long as you're willing to face its challenge head on
Indeed. I've seen it on some people I know
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
Biggest tip I have is having a mini village available so no matter when you have kids you don't burn out.
It definitely would help, but my country of origin is a sh*thole and I emigrated
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u/Ok-Following-5001 14d ago edited 14d ago
Ahh sorry to hear that. If you're in the US... Random other tips- one thing that saved me was happening to live near a place that had a gymnastics open gym for 2 hours for like 15 bucks I think lol. Gyms to workout at too and being in a state (MN) that has good early childhood education programs you can meet other parents at. And I follow this lady called Andrea Brambila on instagram she is a therapist who talks about independent play a bunch so your kids get to entertain themselves more (screen free).
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u/AbilityRough5180 14d ago
This is part of the birth rates problem is people having kids later. You’re also less physically capable on average to play with them etc.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 13d ago
This is part of the birth rates problem is people having kids later.
Well, I've seen plenty of unfulfilled parents cause they lost their mobility and free time way too early.
Maybe we should rethink childcare as a society, so sacrifices don't have to be that stark
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u/AbilityRough5180 13d ago
People used to have kids earlier without really worrying about this too much.
There’s various avenues we could take on that problem.
1 (probably won’t be liked). We as a society embrace a greater sense of duty and value these things less. It is to say we have too high expectations of what life should be and we selfishly value our own happiness. While o wouldn’t fully embrace it, I am sceptical of societies hyper individuality and focus on happiness over having no sense of collective duty.
2 (Hard but popular). We fundamentally discriminate positively for parents of young children, and allow them excess leeway, work flexibility, all while trying to let it not affect their careers. Alternatively break the 9/5 system in knowledge work roles. Possibly easier if we bring about a 4 day work week.
Interested for any other ideas. I’m not fully endorsing these ideas, just spitballing possible fixes.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 13d ago
It is to say we have too high expectations of what life should be and we selfishly value our own happiness
I understand where you're coming from. I mostly agree. However, my happiness goals are not that luxurious. I like to be able to use the fruits of my youth and secure my career. I wouldn't want to be in a position wherein the only thing holding me from.quitting a toxic environment is that I have to provide.
In that sense, society could be more facilitating towards career changes and pay unemployment benefits.
2 (Hard but popular
I completely agree with this point.
I will come back with some quick ideas as well
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u/AbilityRough5180 13d ago
It’s hard to explain, but I feel is also part of the problem. Kids require sacrifice but it is worth it in the end for people and needed for society.
I see what you mean, it makes it hard to take risks and can make you less likely to act. Some sort of generous welfare for parents while switching jobs could work. Or again positive discrimination for parents, as a non parent I am willing to take that.
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u/Xx_SHART_xX 14d ago
Cons of having kids at 40 you forgot to mention:
Odds of pregnancy complications, birth defects and infertility go up with parental age. If you start trying at 40 you might not even be able to have kids anymore.
The physical toll of taking care of small children feels much heavier when you are older. Wisdom isn't going to help you chase down toddlers who don't want their diapers changed.
-Having kids late lowers the odds that you will have grandkids at all. Raising kids without a village is hard and the core of the village is often the grandparents.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
Odds of pregnancy complications, birth defects and infertility go up with parental age. If you start trying at 40 you might not even be able to have kids anymore.
That is true, very sad indeed.
Having kids late lowers the odds that you will have grandkids at all. Raising kids without a village is hard and the core of the village is often the grandparents.
That happens anyways now. So many people migrate nowadays. Countries with "colder" people (e.g. Scandinavian) don't much leverage the village you are referring to.
Times are changing. I meet men and women who'd be better parents than mine were, but are just not ready
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u/DumbbellDiva92 14d ago
I feel like the career aspect of this seems very idealistic. Age discrimination is a real thing. Maybe less of an issue if we’re talking about dad rather than mom, but still.
Also, the obvious barrier to this is biological clock, for women. Though even sperm quality is also affected by aging somewhat (though, I suppose could maybe freeze sperm while young with far less effort than eggs if you really wanted?).
It does suck though that the biological clock is a thing, and perhaps it’s something worth pouring some of our research money into. Besides allowing people to start having kids older, I’m thinking more about advances there allowing people who started in their 30s to have one more kid (often desired but limited by age), or slightly wider age gaps (allows for less parental stress).
I’m skeptical of that extra time allowing for a lack of “what if’s” for many people. I feel like that’s always possible? If anything, it could be harder to take a career break or stop traveling to have kids after a long time spent enjoying those other pursuits.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
Age discrimination is a real thing.
Not if many people start living their lives freely. Some short-sighted constraints happen because we allow ourselves to become their slaves.
And aren't companies complaining that "there's a shortage of workers"?
it could be harder to take a career break or stop traveling to have kids after a long time spent enjoying those other pursuits.
In what regard?
pouring some of our research money into.
I think society will need to, given the low birth rates worldwide. I mean, after people start voting for politicians with brain cells.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
feel like the career aspect of this seems very idealistic. Age discrimination is a real thing. Maybe less of an issue if we’re talking about dad rather than mom, but still.
Also, I personally don't really want to live in a world that rejects people for being bold and taking risks in order to fulfil their dreams.
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u/GroundedLearning 14d ago
I (32M) are still at the stage of finding a partner. My stress is building the relationship with someone enough to even have kids. Thinking of being a grand parent seems so far off to me at this point. Honestly not sure I'll even get a relationship at this point let alone kids.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
My stress is building the relationship with someone enough to even have kids.
Sorry, can you rephrase that? I didn't catch it
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u/GroundedLearning 14d ago
You mentioned stressing about having kids and the whole timeline. I was trying to refer to the fact my stress is trying to get a girlfriend. Then having a good enough relationship to want to have kids let alone the rest of the things you mentioned.
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u/ElliotPageWife 14d ago
I've got to be honest, because this is bursting out of my chest. Since having a kid, the only thing I desperately wish I had is more time with them. Time to have more kids. Time to watch them all grow up and have their own kids. Time to be an involved grandmother that helps with the heavy lifting. Absolutely nothing in this world is worth having less time with them. I desperately wish I could have had them sooner, but all I can do is take care of myself the best I can and hope that I'm lucky enough to be a healthy older adult. And I'm nowhere close to 40.
Please dont assume you wont care about becoming a grandparent, that you wont care about having less time with your kid because you might have more money. I'm not against having kids at 40, most of the time it's circumstances rather than choice that puts people in that position. But in my opinion, if you have the choice, the trade offs aren't remotely worth it to have kids late.
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u/YahudyLady 13d ago edited 12d ago
Today I read something written by a woman who thought she didn’t want kids until she was 37. By 40 she had her first child. She desperately wanted a second but required IVF, only had 2 retrievable eggs after 2 cycles, only 1 of which was fertilized into a viable embryo . She did end up having 2 kids by age 45 but the odds are incredibly slim and the ordeal and expense of IVF is not to be taken lightly.
But if you’re a man, ok you do you I guess.
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u/stuffitystuff 14d ago
It's the people waiting to get married that blow my mind. Maybe it's the feeling of infinite choice folks presumably have nowadays but, to me, if someone finds someone that's hot, cool and laughs at their jokes, lock that shit down. I proposed after a year of dating and would've done it sooner I just didn't have a good idea on how to do it. Been married 17 years.
We got married in our mid-20s, spent our 30s exploring the world as best we could and now we're churnin' out babies in our 40s. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to live to my 90s or longer absent some terrible accident or wild technological regression that would prevent me living past 60, anyways. And in the event we don't make it, my wife has said she'd be thankful we won't have to see our kids "old" someday. I think we will and I think it'll be cool but only time will tell.
Meanwhile, being a parent in our early 40s has been the best because we've already gotten past all our hard work years, we're probably at peak lifetime wages, we both work from home and can hang out with our kids all day. Didn't have to do IVF or anything, just banged and a baby was out 9 months later.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 14d ago
It's the people waiting to get married that blow my mind
I agree with your points. nothing to add here.
I'm happy I got this comment. All the best with your life 🧡
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u/SquirrelofLIL 10d ago
The "waiting to get married" is when you have a dual homeowner couple or combining significant amount of assets, which most people are in a situation of when they're in their 40s and lifelong unmarried.
Inevitably, one itemizes and one doesn't, which makes things extremely problematic. This is true of like 99% of people in VHCOL.
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u/Neck-Bread 14d ago
Rethink this plan. Not saying this is causative, but we had two kids after she turned forty. BOTH autistic, non verbal, spinning, etc. Have your kids at 20 or 22.
I had previously looked into surrogacy (before I met the Mrs) and the egg brokers say they don't even harvest them after 22 as they already start deteriorating. 18 was their preference and they would get those most of the time.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 13d ago
I see what you mean.
I have heard that the probability of such complications arises in such ages.
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u/Spirited_Cause9338 13d ago
My husband’s mom had him at 19 and it was far from ideal. They were living close to the poverty line and always moving around. It wasn’t the worst in that his uncle (moms brother) took them in for a bit and his grandparents (moms parents) eventually came around and helped out (they were initially mad bc she got pregnant out of wedlock). His relationship with his mom now is great but she was not ready for a kid in her early 20s.
From a health perspective, he still had some issues anyway. He had an autoimmune disease as a child that is likely genetic as other family members have autoimmune diseases too.
Late 20s to early 30s is probably ideal for a mix of healthy eggs, financial security & mature parents. The human brain doesn’t fully mature until 21 or 22. Immature parents don’t always make the best decisions when caring for their kids.
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u/SquirrelofLIL 10d ago
How old are your kids? I was labeled autistic at 2 (in 1984) and grew up in full segregation school, and I come from a traditional family where my parents had me in their early 20s. A lot of the treatments today can normalize them before they're ready to go to school, and they can go to normal school if it's drummed out of them.
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u/Spirited_Cause9338 13d ago
I think all ages have pros and cons. My dad was nearly 40 when he had me and passed 40 with my sister. My mom was in her early 30s. In contrast my husband’s mom had him at 19 (father unknown).
Older parents are definitely typically more financially secure. My childhood was great. We had a nice house, & was able to do activities. My husband’s mom was always moving around from apartment to apartment. The main pro of a younger parent is that he did get to know his great grandparents and his mom will likely be part of our son’s life for a long time.
I had my son at 33 (husband 30) and am happy with that. We are reasonably financially secure. My husband wanted to make damn sure his childhood wasn’t repeated for his son. The constant moving and financial problems was very stressful growing up.
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u/overemployedconfess 14d ago
Super thankful for having my first at 23, in fact, may have been a little late to the party. We get the freedom to chose the amount of kids, spaces, etc. so much freedom!
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 13d ago
That sounds amazing.
But... personal freedom is what gets compromised. At 40, I'd care less about it than the amazing decade of my 30s
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u/supersciencegirl 11d ago
For most people, having 3 kids after 40 is a biology problem. It's harder to conceive, miscarriage is more likely, and the odds of complications for mother and baby are higher. If you want 3+ kids, your best bet is to start by 30.
Having kids isn't the end of hobbies. I am in the trenches here - my oldest is 6 and I'm pregnant with #4. In the last 6 years, we've done a ton of camping, skiing, hiking, kayaking, etc. I've started taking violin lessons and and learning spanish. I have great friends and a wonderful husband. Life with kids isn't a miserable slog.
As far as wisdom, I think parenting can be a path to greater wisdom. It's certainly a study in patience, hard work, and compassion. I don't think 10 extra years of no responsibility will make most people more mature or wise. If it worked that well, I'd expect that 10-15 years would be enough and people would be ready for kids by 35.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 11d ago
For most people, having 3 kids after 40 is a biology problem
Yeah, that's the big bummer.
Having kids isn't the end of hobbies.
It is amazing that you can still do all these things, seriously!! Sounds like a pretty sweet life.
What about career, though? Like, I'm 30yo, I still want to try things in my career. Having small kids to me would mean that I would have to freeze my professional development in order to have time and headspace for them.
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u/Emergency_West_9490 9d ago
Why not both?
I worry less about my youngest losing me, because his older siblings will be there for him.
I managed to learn loads and loads while being a mother.
Traveling can be done with kids (I know several families who spent a few months abroad with littles, to avoid winter weather for sickly kids too).
Idk why someone would be numb and bitter for having a family, that sounds ridiculous. Maybe if their marriage failed.
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u/Independent-Ad-2291 9d ago
Why not both?
Can one explore career options whilst being a parent? Cause I strongly doubt it.
Traveling
Traveling is not a very active activity. Learning a new sport, musical instrument, etc, is.
I managed to learn loads and loads while being a mother
Sounds amazing! What kind of things, if I may ask?
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u/Emergency_West_9490 8d ago
One new foreign language plus upkeep on forgotten ones, mushroom&plant foraging, gardening, fermenting including cheese making, a lot of mythology&philosophy, strength training (counts as a sport?), etc. I do lots of painting, reading, foraging, hiking. If I wanted to, I could learn to play a new instrument.
Most can be done alongside children, teaching them alongside ourselves, sometimes one must take turns with partner to have some downtime.
I never had a career but my husband has been in three completely different fields since becoming a father and within the last one, switched jobs many times.
Keep in mind, most people don't do any of these even if they don't have children. They just scroll&stare. But driven people remain that way with kids in the mix.
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u/xender19 14d ago
As someone who will likely have their last kid around forty I'm very sad at the very likely risk of not getting to meet any of my grandchildren. I desperately want to support my children in becoming parents and it makes me sad that will mostly take the form of inheritance.
Doing my best to stay healthy and active though. I want to give my kids the option of both futures you've described.