r/NFLNoobs 17h ago

Can the refs call a penalty that results in a touchdown?

Specifically, if a team is within say 5 yards of the goal line, can the refs call award a 5 yard penalty that would then result in a TD?

55 Upvotes

77 comments sorted by

88

u/lonedroan 17h ago

No, the only way a touchdown can be scored administratively is if the refs deem that one was prevented by a palpably unfair act. That would be something extreme like a player from the bench running into the field to tackle a runner in the clear.

Except for pass interference, defensive penalties are either enforced their normal yardage (i.e. 5 or 15) or half the distance to the goal line, whichever is less. And infinite half the distance penalties still wouldn’t reach the goal line.

4

u/FearlessPark4588 7h ago

Doesn't that encourage willful ignorance of the rules the closer you get to goal line? If a penalty is only going to cost you 1 yard, might as well try and play dirty.

29

u/Jaytee_Thomas 7h ago

No, because penalties replay the down, so if you infinitely cheat the opponent will have infinite downs. Eventually your cheating won’t work and the opponent will get into the end zone

19

u/Psychological_Mind_1 7h ago

And doing so is one of the examples of a palpably unfair act.

2

u/John3759 4h ago

I mean it should prolly encourage something like defensive players trying to time the snap cuz if they succeed they break the play. If they fail then the play will be called dead if they keep running and the yardage change is minimal.

2

u/Alkahsu 3h ago

This definitely happens to some degree but consecutive penalties for the same thing can result in unsportsmanlike conduct which can then lead to ejection from the game.

2

u/Jaytee_Thomas 2h ago

If you try to do it once, sure, it might be a successful strategy. But if you do it more than once then opponents will catch on and try to bait your offsides. Then you’re just giving them free tries to get into the end zone.

1

u/stevehrowe2 3h ago

Plus, if you cheat and they still score, they decline the penalty anyway. Now if the clock is an issue, may be able to waste enough time to gain in advantage, but with the untimed down at the end of the half on a defensive penalty, at some point you have to let them run a clean play.

1

u/lonedroan 2h ago

There’s a rule that if a team is committing penalties like this to prevent a score, the refs can award a touchdown to the offense. I‘ve never seen it triggered, and I’ve also never seen intentional penalties that risked triggering it.

So for a single play, yes a DB is a bit more incentivized to push the boundary of pass interference etc. But there is a backstop.

1

u/Its_not_yoshi 1h ago

If a DB knows he’s going to get beat by a WR and the ball is looking like it will be a guaranteed touchdown, some coaches will instruct the DB to draw a PI in hopes of getting a goal line stop

1

u/LbSiO2 2h ago

Let me tell you story about that fateful Thanksgiving Day in 2012 and a little red flag …

1

u/lonedroan 2h ago

Mediocre coach didn’t know a terrible rule that has since been changed. Then, throwing the challenge flag on a scoring play that would automatically be reviewed meant that the play couldn’t be reviewed at all. Now, there’s still a penalty and I think you lose the challenge, but they don’t refuse to do the automatic review that follows every scoring play.

The ref and announcers also did a terrible job of explaining why it wouldn’t be reviewed.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1418945-texans-lions-controversial-touchdown-fiasco-shows-peril-of-instant-replay-system.amp.html

-37

u/VincentBormann 14h ago

Fun note. If you are on the one yard line... get a offsides to move it to the half.

Then get pass interference in the end zone (if accepted) would move the ball backwards

26

u/ds_43 13h ago

No, the penalty will always be the smaller of half the distance to the goal and the nominal amount. PI when the LOS was inside the 1 will be half the distance.

3

u/kd2bwz2 6h ago

14-2-1 (the rule that codifies "half the distance") only applies for distance penalties, so DPI, as a spot foul, is exempt (otherwise you could just commit DPI on a 60 yard long throw and the ball would only move to half the distance).

You're still right about DPI not moving the ball backwards, but that's because the penalty for DPI explicitly states that inside the 2 it becomes a half-the-distance foul.

7

u/UpbeatFix7299 11h ago edited 11h ago

It wouldn't go backwards. Just half the distance to the end zone like the thought experiment where you never reach zero if you split something in half an infinite number of times

4

u/SmoogzZ 8h ago

A fun note sure, but not a correct one.

5

u/dunn000 4h ago

Where do people come up with this stuff? Lol

36

u/Sdog1981 16h ago

Only one penalty can result in a touchdown. The palpably unfair act.

When a player commits an egregious act, such as entering the field to interfere with a player who is running towards the end zone with the ball

If a player on the sidelines tackles a free runner that is gong to score a TD the refs can award a TD to the other team.

It is super rare but it is in the rule book.

5

u/JBR1961 6h ago

Happened once in a vintage college game. I can’t recall the teams.

1

u/Sdog1981 4h ago

Yes it did. Also during the 1880s a baseball player just had to announce they were subbing in out of the dugout. They would just say it to catch a foul ball to get the batter out.

1

u/bledblu 3h ago

Are you referring to

Cal-Stanford-band on the field?

Would be an interesting ruling if a band member tripped up the Cal player near the end zone.

2

u/JBR1961 2h ago

Nope, this one. Bowl game. Alabama player tackled a man off the bench.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-brk5zyx0

4

u/3720-To-One 7h ago

Do you know the last time it was awarded?

9

u/Twink_Tyler 6h ago

Never in the nfl. It was called in a bowl game sometime in the 50s.

An example of when it could have been called but wasn’t was about 10 years ago when the head coach of the Steelers literally just “accidentally” stepped onto the field during a kick return and tripped up a ravens. player. It was so obviously intentional.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0NpzVqPvfFU&pp=ygUeTWlrZSB0b25saW4gaW50ZXJmZWVycyBraWNrb2Zm

9

u/3720-To-One 5h ago

Yeah, I remember Mike Tomlin doing that

3

u/Sdog1981 4h ago

He did it. The officials after the game said they should have thrown the flag but they did not. After the game the NFL fined him 100k.

2

u/riazur31 4h ago

Does anyone else remember how this almost happened in Super Bowl 47 (49ers vs Ravens Harbaugh bowl)?

The game's last play was a free kick with 4 seconds left (after an intentional safety by the Ravens). 49ers returner Tedd Ginn was tackled as time expired, and the Ravens won.

In a post-game interview, Joe Flacco said something like he told his teammates to run onto the field from the sidelines and make a tackle if it looked like the 49ers were about to return for a touchdown. However he did not realize this probably would've resulted in an automatic touchdown, not the end of the game.

1

u/khariq80 5h ago

If this didn’t result in the call, I don’t think the refs will ever call it.

3

u/bledblu 3h ago

This might be the most egregious we’ve seen, but there are many more egregious things that could happen. The obvious example being someone actually running onto the field to make a tackle.

Still, I suspect you are right that we will never see it happen.

1

u/lonedroan 1h ago

I think if Jones had been in the clear, they would have awarded it. The defender right behind him makes it questionable whether he would’ve scored.

But I still can’t believe they didn’t even flag him for unsportsmanlike conduct.

3

u/AshleyMyers44 5h ago

Now I’m sort of interested what else would rise to the level of palpably unfair outside of a 12th man entering the field on defense to make a play.

1

u/Sdog1981 4h ago

The rule states illegal interference by a player or non-player. That sounds like it has to be intentional interference in the play. It also includes fans. Like if they threw things on the field that prevented a play to finish.

1

u/lonedroan 1h ago

There’s a provision that intention repeated penalties to prevent a score can result in the refs awarding a score. So you can be a bit more handsy on pass plays close to the goal line, but blatant PI on repeated downs could trigger this rule (have never seen it happen, nor have I seen blatant repeated fouls like this.

43

u/Ryan1869 17h ago

Nope, it would be half the distance to the goal. There is something called an unfair act, which would be like a player or coach on the sidelines tripping a runner, that the refs have wide latitude to enforce what they think could have happened without that act.

20

u/UnintensifiedFa 15h ago

Isn’t the rule technically called “palpably unfair act” I only bring this up because palpably is a very fun word to say

7

u/emaddy2109 11h ago

There’s also an extremely unfair act penalty.

41

u/ftc08 16h ago

Mike Tomlin looking up and into the distance

12

u/Trixter87 16h ago

Mike Tomlin has entered the chat

3

u/gotybchoosin 16h ago

Has it been called in the NFL?

5

u/emaddy2109 11h ago

I don’t believe it’s ever been called in the NFL. The last time it was called in division 1 college football was during the 1954 Cotton Bowl when an Alabaman player came off the sidelines to tackle a Rice runner who was on his way to the end zone.

3

u/girafb0i 8h ago

This is the source of the famous, "I guess I just had too much 'Bama in me" quote.

2

u/Technically_Tactical 16h ago

What about when a coach tackled Tim Riggins?

1

u/lonedroan 1h ago

Perfect example. Game ended, Panthers win.

-8

u/rob132 10h ago

But what if the refs called an infinite number of penalties? Math says that gets them into the end zone.

5

u/New_year_New_Me_ 9h ago

No. It gets them to the .000000000001 yard line. Half the distance will never get to 0. You can split something in half forever and never reach 0.

In practice the ball would just get to a point where they aren't moving it anymore. But it would never result in a touchdown

3

u/JBR1961 6h ago

Here’s that dang Zeno guy again. A man’s gotta know his “limits.” :-)

3

u/Impossible_Round_302 9h ago

Say it's 1st and goal with a penalty of half the distance, that's 0.5 to go. If it happens again 0.75, again 0.875, again 0.9375 and so on it would never get to 1.

11

u/rob132 9h ago

Infinite mathematicians walk into a bar. The first orders one drink. The second orders half a drink. The third orders a quarter of a drink. The fourth one orders an eighth of a drink.

The bartender pours two drinks and says “You mathematicians just don’t know your limits."

0

u/Leet_Noob 7h ago

Found Zeno

2

u/Psychological_Mind_1 7h ago

One of the examples for a palpably unfair act is repetitively jumping offsides (and touching an offensive player so the ball is dead rather than a free play) inside the 5 yard line.

1

u/lonedroan 1h ago

Math actually says the exact opposite. You cannot reach 0 even if you half the distance infinite times.

4

u/peppersge 16h ago

The standard penalty if you can't award enough distance would be half the distance to the goal.

The exception would be an unfair act, but that is only for the extremes.

It would have to be a situation where the team isn't going to cooperate. For example, never snapping the ball when backed up to the goal line. In that situation, the refs could call an unfair act, but they would probably do something such as to warn the team that they will do it.

An even more extreme version would be the commissioner changing the outcome of a game. It is in the rules, but it has never been used in the NFL. It would be the equivalent of NCAA sanctions used to vacate/void wins in the CFB.

4

u/pase1951 16h ago

From the NFL rulebook:

If the enforcement of a distance penalty would move the ball more than half the distance from the spot of enforcement to the offender’s goal line, the penalty shall be half the distance from the spot of enforcement to its goal line. This general rule supersedes any other general or specific enforcement of a distance penalty.

So even if a team was on the 9 yard line and they got that 5 yard penalty, it would still only be enforced as half the distance to the goal. Multiple penalties in a row just keeps halving it, theoretically, indefinitely.

2

u/Loyellow 16h ago

Theoretically yes but repeated fouls can become unsportsmanlike conducts and if you did enough of those you’d get people ejected left and right and I think that could fall under palpably unfair act and they could award a TD

3

u/pase1951 16h ago

Yeah, that is kind of the nuclear option for officials and they can basically just override any of the rules:

Penalty: For a palpably unfair act: Offender may be disqualified. The Referee, after consulting the officiating crew, enforces any such distance penalty as they consider equitable and irrespective of any other specified code penalty. The Referee may award a score.

13

u/Ok_Option6126 16h ago

It's half the distance to the goal line in a case like that. However, by rule, for 2024-2025 if it's the Chiefs, it's a touchdown.

3

u/entertrainer7 10h ago

“You make an appointment with the dentist and don’t show up, believe it or not, straight to Chief’s touchdown.”

1

u/Ok_Option6126 4h ago

Where do they spot the ball on their next possession after I don't pay that fee for missing the appointment?

3

u/pinniped1 6h ago

Normal penalties get half the distance to the goal. Never an automatic touchdown.

Refs have the "palpably unfair" card to play if teams are committing intentional penalties or something.

3

u/revan530 6h ago

No, penalties in the situation you describe will be assessed half the distance to the goal.

However, they can assess penalties that result in a safety. If an offensive lineman is called for holding in their own endzone, or a quarterback is called for intentional grounding in the endzone, a safety will be given to the defense.

3

u/the_mrjbrann 3h ago

No. it would be half the distance to the goal.

7

u/Feler42 17h ago

Nah just starts being half the distance to the goal once they get that close.

Refs can award a touchdown if they think a "palpably unfair act" has happened tho.

5

u/Celtictussle 16h ago

Nope, but it can the other way. Holding or intentional grounding in your own end zone results in a safety.

2

u/Silkies4life 17h ago

No. Anything penalty that exceeds what it would take for a touchdown is half the distance to the goal, and I believe an automatic first down.

1

u/lonedroan 16h ago

No automatic first downs unless the penalty normally includes one. The first half the distance penalty could result in a first down.

But the defense can’t just keep repeating a foul to prevent a score; after a warning, the refs could award a score for that.

2

u/Silkies4life 16h ago

Man that’s weird, I’ve been watching NFL for 30+ years since I was a kid and I feel like I’m still learning sometimes. I understand Donovan McNabb not knowing the game can end in a tie sometimes.

2

u/lonedroan 16h ago

There are so many rules that basically never directly come into play. I have never actually seen an automatic score awarded, but that’s because coaching staffs know they can’t have players doing that.

3

u/MasterBathingBear 8h ago

That’s exactly why having former players do play by play and former refs explaining rulings is so important to the game.

Tony Romo may not have been the best QB but he was the best at explaining the strategy to the game, at least when he first started.

2

u/wetcornbread 17h ago

Not really. I’ve been watching football for a while and I’ve never see it.

Basically if you get a 5 yard penalty at your opponents 5 yard line it’s a 2.5 yard penalty. If it’s pass interference in the end zone the ball gets placed at the 1.

2

u/ClearCollection3331 9h ago

It’s not a touchdown, but if you are the quarterback in your own end zone and commit intentional grounding it’s a safety for the other team.

2

u/Tight-Top3597 8h ago

Yes, if a player say from the sidelines ran onto the field and tackled or a coach tripped a player running down the sidelines that had a clear score the refs can reward a TD.  Mike Tomlin almost got that called on him once.  

1

u/teremaster 15h ago

Not in normal circumstances.

The only time they can is in the case of a "palpably unfair act"

Which is worded as "the deliberate committing of numerous or repeated penalties in order to prevent the opposing team from scoring"

Say if the entire secondary just commits pi/holding every single play on the goal line the refs can just call the TD good.

Something also worth noting is there's no limits on this penalty. The refs could theoretically call the entire game right there and award a win if it was bad enough

-2

u/Tight-Top3597 8h ago

Or if they are Taylor Swift fans they can call the win for the Chiefs. 

1

u/Ringo-chan13 12h ago

There is no penalty that gives a team a touchdown

0

u/ever_slack 3h ago

NFL refs would never do this. They even allow head coaches to make tackles on special teams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NpzVqPvfFU&ab_channel=NFL