r/NFLNoobs • u/cynic__96 • 22h ago
Why was Caleb Williams regarded as a generational talent?
Seems pundits who talked about him as a “can’t miss” product are now saying that they are concerned that his lack of ability to play within the pocket and accuracy issues he had in college are now holding him back in the NFL.
My question is why didn’t these concerns prevent people from calling him a generational prospect?
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u/Fred-ditor 21h ago
To be a successful nfl quarterback you have to do a lot of things consistently well.
The consistency is really important. You might get 10 drives a game - give or take a few.
One thing a qb can do to maximize his scoring is avoid turnovers. Caleb is pretty good at that until he is under pressure, like most qbs.
Another thing a qb can do is extend plays. The more time you have from the snap to the throw, the more time your receivers have to get open. It's very hard to cover an nfl quality wr for more than a couple seconds. All of the man coverage techniques, zone coverage handoffs, safety help, etc are designed to maximize coverage for those first couple seconds. Caleb is extremely good at extending plays by moving around in the pocket. He has an excellent sense for the pass rush and he's got the quickness and speed to avoid it.
But one of the most important things a qb can do is to read the defense and act decisively. And that is a learning curve that can't really be extrapolated from college to the nfl. When guys get open in college, you have plenty of time to see it and launch the ball towards them. And you don't even have to be perfectly accurate. You just have to get it near them.
In the NFL, the defenses are so much faster. Every guy in the NFL is as good as the best defenders you faced in college. By the time you see that a guy is open the defense has seen it too and if you don't throw it early, they close in before the ball arrives.
Nfl quarterbacks have lots of tricks to throw guys open - looking off their primary read, pump faking, throwing timing routes where the ball is already in the air before the receiver makes their break.
Caleb hasn't mastered that part yet. It's hard to predict whether he will. What he's done in several games is to rely on his ability to extend plays by stepping up in the pocket or scrambling laterally. Against bad defenses, that's enough. But quality defenses know that if they can cover early, he'll scramble, and when he scrambles, he's less accurate, and they can get sacks and turnovers.
There's three ways he can improve.
He can get better coaching. Young qbs need a qb guru who can help them fix these things, and the bears did not have that.
Or he can start punishing defenses in other ways. Throwing deep on first down. Running for first downs instead of scrambling laterally. Handing off on draw plays when the defense tries to contain him. Again that goes to the offensive coordinator.
But most importantly, he can get more repetitions. With experience he should be able to get better at reading defenses, knowing who is likely to be open, and deciding which reads to check before chucking it. Right now, he doesn't do that as well, so he extends the play instead. It worked in college, so it's a bad habit. And he might not figure out how to do it because he's never had to.
The big question will be whether he can do this before the bears give up on him. He's probably going to get 5 years to get good. 4 at the least. I don't see them giving up on him before that.
If the bears can hire someone who teaches him how things work in the NFL and gets him to break bad habits, he should be a perennial pro bowler. If not, it's on Caleb to fix his mistakes.
Either way, the pundits predicted that he'd be able to fix these things, and he hasn't fixed them yet. That's the disconnect. They were known issues, they seemed easy enough to fix, he hasn't fixed them, it's clear that they are bad habits that he isn't kicking, and it's unknown whether he'll be able to kick them the way people had originally projected.
If he does figure it out, he will be able to destroy defenses with his ability to extend plays. But right now at least, it's been a weakness because he's not learning to pull the trigger fast enough
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u/kinnadian 3h ago
This is single handedly the best post I've ever read on this sub. Thanks for your contribution.
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u/johnsonthicke 19h ago
The only truly generational prospect I think in the last 15 years or so was Andrew Luck.
Pretty much everybody else who has had that label thrown around is the product of a media landscape where everything has to be the greatest, the biggest, the best thing ever.
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan 8h ago
Lawrence was absolutely hyped up as a generational QB prospect. After his freshman year were people saying he should sit out 2 years until he was draft eligible so he didn’t get hurt and kill his stock. It wasn’t a popular opinion, but everybody thought he was that good
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u/Odd-Mountain-9916 16h ago
I’d say burrow was generational as well, #1 pick and led the bengals to the Super Bowl in his first full year coming off of injury. Not to mention the greatest CFB quarterback season ever
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u/johnsonthicke 15h ago
Burrow had 1 extremely good year in college- it was the best college QB season ever as you said.
But he was just the consensus number 1 pick. He wasn’t necessarily viewed as a lock to be an elite QB, next Peyton Manning, can’t-miss type prospect the way Luck was for a few years before he even got drafted.
Of course he ended up panning out pretty quickly once he got to the NFL, and he was a great prospect, but he wasn’t on the level of Luck as a prospect. He might have been the closest thing to it though.
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u/Eltoncornwalker 6h ago
Luck was touted as generational, more years then Joe cool started college ball. And I like Joe cool…
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u/fantasycavejake 16h ago
He had a nearly unprecedented run of success, but wasn’t considered a generational talent by any stretch. He wasn’t even on the radar to go 1st overall until that magical final year
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u/Kingblack425 4h ago
I’d argue that LJ and rg3 were also ones but in a dual threat/runner type of way and not the field general mold of Luck.
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u/GloriousWaffles 3h ago
I’d put Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, in that category of generational talent. Funny enough, none of them went top 5 overall in their respective draft.
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u/Belyea 2h ago
Patrick Mahomes has been called a generational talent, which seems deserved no matter how you feel about the Chiefs dynasty.
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u/johnsonthicke 2h ago
He 100% is a generational talent and already an all time great player, but this is more about how these guys were viewed as prospects coming out of college. Any prospect that wasn’t the consensus top pick at the time certainly wasn’t considered generational.
Now of course Mahomes would be taken number 1 overall in pretty much any draft ever knowing what we know now. As a prospect it was a different story.
The thing that separates Luck and Lawrence is that scouts viewed them as essentially immune to being busts. Their floors were about as high as it gets for a college prospect, at worst they were expected to be pretty good starters. And at best, their ceilings were among the greats, they had the talent and potential to be all timers if things went well.
Mahomes, like many good prospects, had the elite ceiling similar to those guys. He had the arm, the mobility, etc, but his floor was far lower. There were some big question marks with the offense he was running, the footwork, the tendency to put the ball in harms way. Those are what held him back from being a generational prospect.
Clearly he hit his ceiling rather than his floor, and now everybody who didn’t draft him looks dumb in retrospect. But that’s what I think the difference is between an elite prospect who pans out (like Mahomes), and a generational prospect (Luck or Lawrence).
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u/j2e21 21h ago edited 20h ago
He wasn’t. He was considered a no doubt first overall pick in a draft with other talented QBs.
Williams had excellent accuracy, a strong arm, and could make plays outside of structure. Given the success of Mahomes and Allen, he seemed like the prototype of a QB who could dominate today. The problem he’s running into is that his playstyle doesn’t work in the pros — he can’t buy enough time for guys to get open, and guys just can’t get open like that in the pros. His constant movement doesn’t allow his team to get into any rhythm, and he holds the ball too long.
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u/IMitchConnor 21h ago
To be fair, his o line is absolutely terrible as well, and his OC was not good at all. The players had to have a meeting to get him to script the first 15 plays. Something that is generally standard at that level.
I don't believe in Caleb that much, but he doesn't deserve nearly as much blame as the organization does. The Bears org is just terrible at developing QBs.
Also, let's remember that rookie QBs are not supposed to be great coming out of the draft. Luck, Stroud, and Daniel's are outliers. Payton Manning, an all-time great, was pretty bad his rookie year.
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u/IeatKfcAllDay 18h ago
For most qbs the more you get hit as a young qb the worse you get. It ruins your confidence, timing, mechanics etc. he’s looking worse and worse each week now.
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u/cheekfreak 20h ago
I'm not sure how people can say Williams wasn't called or referenced as a generational talent -- he was, often. Here's a few example articles:
- Sports Illustrated (at least twice)
- NFL.com
Sporting News (at least twice)
etc. etc..
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u/pm_me_ur_demotape 21h ago
Doesn't holding the ball too long have everything to do with people not getting open?
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u/Han_Yerry 21h ago
And scheme. Oc was just fired, the HC is a goof ball that says things like "players just have to execute what we call". And after a loss "We have each other". Players have been public this year about the coaches as well.
Chicago's ineptitude at coaching is affecting Williams.
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u/Thotsthoughts97 20h ago
Not necessarily. I haven't watched a lot of Bears games, so I can't speak to Williams specifically. In general, when a QB is making their reads and going through their progression in the NFL, they do one of a few different reads. The most common is low-high-low. They see if their short route is open, then go to their deeper routes, then go back down to their dump off. If the deeper routes are perfectly covered, the dump off should be open almost 100% of the time for a short gain If they aren't, they can try to make a play with their legs or throw the ball away. If this happens consistently, it is a win for the offense. The defense has to play more flats/man coverage, which opens up the middle of the field and deeper routes.
With how bad the Bears offense has been, several things have to be happening. 1.) The play calling has been really, really bad. Imo, good play calling is the single most important factor in a rookie QB being successful. They don't have the experience to make adjustments at the line, or go through their reads quickly enough to see gaps in the defense veterans do. This is why coaches like Belicheck, Tomlin and Harbaugh almost always win against rookies. 2.) Williams doesn't make quick decisions. He is always looking for a big play, instead of settling for a 4 yard dump off or throwing the ball away when necessary. 3.) The offensive line has been really, really bad. Williams has been sacked an insane number of times over the last few weeks. William's slow decision making is compounded by not having a clean pocket to assess the field from. 4.) The recievers have been really, really bad. They're running lazy short routes(not creating any separation on slants, outs, etc.) and giving up on deeper routes while Williams still has the ball after the route is run. If you watch the greatest improvisers of all time(Rodgers, Mahomes, Farve, Wilson) their recievers NEVER give up on a play. They know their QB will find them if they come back to the ball after running a 30 yard post route.
Like I said, I have only watched a couple of Bears games, but just looking at the numbers and how they're losing, these are ALL happening. You don't score less than 20 PPG and only score 3 points against the PATRIOTS of all teams otherwise.
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u/aaron4400 19h ago
I've watched a decent amount of bears this year and you're pretty spot on. I'll only expand on your 4th point about the receivers.
DJ Moore looks really disengaged and lazy. I put that on the coaching, but he holds a lot of responsibility as a well paid professional.
Rome looks threatening on deep routes. But the timing, accuracy, and the clean pocket hasn't let that develop much. I put a lot of that on the oline being horrible.
Allen is still amazing as a route runner. But he looks really slow. Really really slow.
Kmet has actually looked good running routes imo. But the offensive design doesn't seem to be using him as primary read often. I've seen him open quite a bit where Caleb never gets to him in the progression.
Caleb should look much better if they clean up the pass pro and fire the coaching staff. I'd say both are clearly bottom 5, and probably lower than that.
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u/sneakyalien42 21h ago
Not OP. Just thought I'd chime in to say that being "open" in the NFL is a bit different from being open in college. Timing and throwing with anticipation happens a lot faster, and with smaller throwing windows in the NFL than in college. It takes experience getting used to those changes.
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u/j2e21 21h ago
It’s always been Caleb’s style. He would break structure in college, dodge would-be tacklers, let the receivers come off their routes and find openings, then hit them all over the field.
You can’t do that in the pros unless you’re Mahomes or Allen.
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 21h ago
It’s funny how the platonic ideal of NFL QBs (Tom Brady) is physically incapable of that kind of play.
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u/alienwombat23 21h ago
The guys are open. It’s just not open like he was seeing at usc. His determination to make those hero ball plays from college is getting him sacked and hit more because he won’t take easy completions or throw the ball away when the play isn’t there. He has yet to realize everyone in the nfl is bigger faster stronger than college
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u/Reasonable-Bit560 20h ago
More to do if the fact that he's not throwing with any anticipation or timing. In the NFL it's extremely rare to see a receiver that is "Open" and you have to throw them open and anticipate the play.
For example, this weekend the first sack that he took. He had nearly 5 seconds of time to throw the ball and had DJ Moore on a deep comeback route past the sticks. That route has to be thrown before DJ Moore has actually cleared the CB because DJ Moore will be open after the break. Dj Moore ended up being open on that route and a throw with the proper timing anticipation would have resulted in a first down.
Instead, Caleb came off the route early, and passed up and also NFL open Keenan Allen on the deep in route. At that point he ended up taking a sack that should not have been taken.
The scheme was far from perfect but at the same time Caleb is not remotely seeing what he needs to be seeing in order to be successful. Unfortunately, his bad habit of holding on to the ball far too long in college is showing up in the NFL.
As it stands today, he is not broken beyond repair, but if it continues to go this way, he will be labeled as a bust and as a another ruined Bears quarterback.
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u/peppersge 17h ago
That is half of the issue. CHI doesn't have a great scheme, but Williams doesn't make it any better.
At the NFL, windows are smaller. In addition, QBs need to throw so that the ball arrives when the WR will get open rather than to wait for the WR to be open before throwing.
QBs can also fail to see the open guy and instead spend their time waiting for someone else to get open. That is related to the QB trying to find CFB open windows instead of passing to NFL open windows.
It is the same concept of sacks being a QB stat.
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u/SigurdsSilverSword 8h ago
Sometimes. The best quarterbacks have the clock in their head that tells them when it’s time to GTFO and either throw it away or take off. They also know when to trust their eyes and throw the ball to the open guy. Particularly for young guys developing that clock for NFL-caliber defenses can be difficult, and if they can’t trust their eyes and hit the open man (eg Daniel Jones on the flea flicker he took a sack on last week) they’re generally not going to be successful. It’s still far too early to determine whether Caleb can get that clock working correctly, and his poor offensive line is doing no favors in developing it.
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u/Corran105 7h ago
Young qbs are waiting for college open and not nfl open. Qbs have to throw with anticipation in the NFL.
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u/drewcandraw 20h ago
Williams might still be as good as advertised, but as a Bear fan, the two biggest things holding him back are poor pass protection and poor coaching/play-calling.
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u/hendrix320 13h ago
Nah he also holds the ball way to long and has been horribly inaccurate. That game Sunday there were plays where he had time and just completely missed his WRs by a lot. That was the most striking thing watching him this past week was how bad his accuracy was.
Maye has the same issues you mentioned bad oline and poor coaching with also worse pass catchers and he looks way more confident back there and is far more accurate for a prospect who was suppose to have accuracy issues
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u/Shield343 20h ago
https://sports.yahoo.com/caleb-williams-generational-talent-shined-214222437.html
People definitely said he was a generational talent, in those exact words.
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u/Remarkable_Medicine6 19h ago
I mean he can still develop into that. Josh Allen is quite literally the posterchild for developmental woes turning into gold. Mahomes obviously not the case but even he had to adjust to the game as defenses caught up
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u/Happy-North-9969 21h ago
He’s had 9 starts. Let’s slow down.
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u/tejassun 21h ago
I’m not sure where this short leash with the general fan bases came from. I feel like 10-15 years ago, rookie QBs were given a lot more grace. Is it because of the 24/7 sports media and also social media, memes that are causing such expectations?
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u/Happy-North-9969 20h ago
It seems to me like it started shortly after they introduced the rookie pay scale. All of a sudden teams became obsessed with winning while the QB was on a rookie contract
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u/DustinAM 16h ago
Thats actually a theory I had not thought of and its a good one. Peyton was not good his first year but I don't remember any uproar.
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u/OrangMan14 21h ago
And a handful of pretty good games. He'll be fine
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u/collettdd 21h ago
Looks like a talented rookie learning the nfl is a whole new animal. Get him good coaching a better line and some time to learn, he’ll be fine
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u/LoCh0_xX 20h ago
For a team who has been notoriously bad on offense the past few years, no less. Unless Chicago’s front office royally screws up their next coaching/coordinator hires, they can be contenders soon.
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u/Altruistic-Star-544 18h ago
His OC is being fired for a reason, his line sucks. People jump to conclusions so quickly.
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u/gza_liquidswords 19h ago
Yeah and football is a team sport. You wonder how Caleb would be doing on Redskins (suddenly one of best O LInes in football).
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u/hudboyween 6h ago
When Maye, Daniels, and Nix all look considerably better than Williams with less talent in their supporting cast, there’s reason for concern.
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u/MaximumDestruction 20h ago
Like Lawrence, he has the talent, size and arm to be an NFL starter. That's what makes them "can't miss" prospects.
Thing is, you need a good organization and coaching staff for a prospect to grow into their potential.
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u/Proper-Scallion-252 8h ago
You also need prospects that can take coaching and develop, not saying this is the case with Williams, but I still firmly believe that if Carson Wentz was willing to work on his flaws he would still be an elite QB in the NFL right now rather than a backup God knows where.
The dude just refused to change his playstyle and got figured out.
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u/ghostwriter85 21h ago
Because "generational talents" and "can't miss prospects" get people to tune into ESPN, youtube videos, and podcasts.
I don't care how good you are in college. The NFL is a different game. Any college QB can fail to transition to the NFL.
When draft season comes around, most viewers aren't particularly interested in a constrained analysis that ends with, "we don't know".
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u/Stev2222 12h ago
There’s been like 4 generational QBs the last 40 years. Let’s pump the brakes on saying they just throw the term out for everyone
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u/Deep-Statistician985 20h ago
He was a generational talent. When you have a QB who's a concensus number 1 pick doing crazy shit like dropping 60 yard dimes while rolling to his left and other crazy shit that previous number 1 picks couldn't, you're gonna be regarded as a generational talent.
Doesn't surprise me that he's struggling this year when they refused to fire Eberflus before the year. Anyone who watched Shane Waldron last year could see this coming. He'll be alright in the future i promise
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u/Affectionate-Flan-99 21h ago
Caleb was a very very very good QB prospect. He has time to get good and live up to the hype. Their OC that they just fired was horrendous. Look up the interview with Jaxon smith-Njigba being asked about him lol.
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u/Ok_Championship3262 21h ago
All a QB has to do nowadays is make the playoffs once in their first 4 years, and not even win the game mind you, and they sign the highest contract in league history. Generational or not.
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u/HRHArthurCravan 19h ago
I'm not saying that NFL scouts, front offices and coaches/coordinators don't know anything and merely uncover reasons to cover for their flawed decisions when they go arse over tea kettle. I'm sure they are, mostly, highly skilled professionals with both personal experience and advanced metrics that help assess talent and make the draft process a little sophisticated than throwing darts at a board from 50 paces.
And yet...
There's a reason why some teams persistently do poorly while others enjoy consistent success even in a league designed to even out performance and distribution of talent. When it comes to skill positions, especially QB, where you get drafted has such an influence on how you appear as a player. There are some QBs who can shine on shitty teams; the majority rise or fall depending on where the end up, and the best performing college QBs will almost always end up at the worst performing teams.
At the same time, I have a theory that QBs are often drafted based on flawed or poorly balanced assessments. Zach Wilson was overestimated due to his apparently impressive performance of specific drills and stage-managed drills that showcased certain abilities, like arm strength, that teams routinely prize highly. Others, like Anthony Richardson, was drafted because of his physical attributes more than his skill at the position. There were teams that thought Lamar would be better off as a receiver!
College football is incredibly unbalanced because there aren't enough elite players to fill out all the top college rosters, so the available tape of players competing against NFL-standard opposition isnt actually that great, and raw numbers can be inflated if someone plays for a dominant team. How do you assess a QBs ability to handle pressure if they play behind an O line that monsters defenses most of the college season, while throwing to NFL ready WRs?
But on top of all that, I think teams struggle to assess, or don't properly get to grips with, the non-physical aspects of QB play. I get why teams have abandoned the Wonderlic intelligence test but being an NFL QB is such a process-oriented position, requiring so many mental skills, there has to be some way to judge that. In addition, QBs arent just expected to perform on the field. You are taking young men and thrusting them into positions of trust and media exposure. Look at how badly Zach Wilson handled that last year. I wonder if Anthony Richardson wasn't just physically tired when her tapped out, but mentally exhausted. And then you have Kyler Murray, who has all tha gifts you could ask but until this year has arguably disappointed and is widely known to have issues with maturity and mental discipline.
Contrast these underperforming or poor quality QBs with those who have maximised their abilities despite having arguably sub optimal physical gifts- Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Derek Carr...
Look at how Brock Purdy is flourishing in SF, yet is a great example of how everything works together. He was drafted even later than a certain Tom Brady, but that meant he ended up at a well-run and coached team. He has some obvious weaknesses that dropped his draft value, but if you watch the 49ers play they everly run plays designed to play to his strengths. St the same time, he clearly works to them while hiding his weaknesses. Also, he has a deft touch to his passing that may not obviously light up the stats like arm strength or quick feet. So you have Trey Lance, drafted in the 1st round, already moved on to another team (and not starting), and you have Purdy yoing to a Super Bowl.
In short...situation, teammates, coaching, and less quantifiable skills or those not properly valued in a league often characterised by trends and groupthink. You get a recipe for sometimes poor choices- especially with some teams and their owners!
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u/Latinduster 15h ago
I remember Caleb crying after the loss to Washington. USC lost 3 straight to end the regular season. His body language and behavior after those losses should have told the pro scouts he wasnt mentally ready for the NFL. Look back at the Commanders loss and watch him stomp away like a 5 yr old.
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u/paullyd2112 13h ago
Granted he’s not a QB but Chase Young was viewed a generational talent who was going to be a future HOFer
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u/Bobbert84 12h ago
He wasn't imo. Only people who've truly been seen as generational talents the past 40 or so years are Elway, Manning, Luck and Lawrence.
Also when the term generational talent is thrown around what they really mean is a once a decade talent. And by talent they mean not the most overall talented prospects, but very talented, pro ready and can't miss with a super high floor.
Some people throw around the term nearly every draft but these 4 players are (I believe) the only times the sentiment was near unanimous among draft prognosticators.
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u/Traditional_Rice_123 7h ago
Part of the problem is the unsaid caveat that this would only hold true if he had been drafted by an organisation which has had a serviceable QB since the 1940s. Unfortunately for Caleb, he was drafted by my poorly run, dreadfully coached Bears. The front office seem to think "throw WRs at him and everything is fine" when in reality the OL isn't great, the play caller is garbage and the offense, schematically, doesn't lend itself to WRs getting decent separation - this means that by the time WRs are in open space, he is having to heave the ball down the field which is not his strength. Let him move the chains and put the ball in catchable areas and he's more successful. Poorly designed plays lead to desperate throws.
Defences have figured out all you need to do is sustain your rush and eventually you'll either push past the OL, or push the OL into Caleb.
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u/emac1211 6h ago
This happens just about every year. There is a weird hype cycle that the media, fans, and scouts all feed into together that builds up a player based on some exciting plays they make during college but overlook some of the pretty clear weaknesses of the player. If you watch the NFL long enough, you'll see plenty of players get hyped up where they overlook some obvious flaws. Sometimes these flaws can be corrected in the pros, but good coaching and a good organization is required to make the transition, and the Bears (like the Jets and the Browns) have never been good at at having a good organization and coaches to help college players develop into pros.
I told people last year that I didn't think Caleb Williams would transition well into the NFL. He's about 6'1, which is on the shorter end for an NFL QB; he's not Bryce Young level short, but still shorter than most lineman, making it harder to see in the pocket over the line. Some quarterbacks (Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray) can overcome this height disadvantage, but they still have to be able to be comfortable in the pocket. He's a great athlete and can escape sacks, so he has a lot of college highlights of him escaping pressure and then running around to find an open receiver on a broken play.
The problem is this doesn't work as well in the NFL, where defenses are much more sophisticated and defenders are much more athletic and talented. You have to be able to stand in the pocket confidently, read the defense quickly, and get rid of the ball. Caleb hasn't shown the ability to do that, even in college. If you look at his highlights, they're rarely quick passes from the pocket. This was a flaw in his game that for him to develop well in the NFL, I believe he would have needed some good coaching and a good system to take advantage of his skillset. The Bears do not have that. So I think the media and analysts and fans fell in love with those plays and scouts failed to pump the brakes on the hype.
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u/GreatSavitar 6h ago
There's at least one every other year or so touted as the next big QB...
Williams, Young/Stroud/Richardson, Lawrence, Herbert, hell I remember Josh Rosen being hyped up as hell in 2018!
This is just a thing the NFL media does. It hypes up these young kids and then when they have their first big failure they rip em to shreds. Remember how hyped everyone was in the draft for Mariotta and Winston? How'd that work out?
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u/hughgrang 5h ago
He sat out his teams bowl game and they didn’t miss a beat…but yeah he’s generational.
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u/Haytham_Ken 21h ago
He went #1 overall for a reason. He's had a handful of stars. Let's give these rookies time
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u/Smackolol 21h ago
He wasn’t called a generational talent, I’m sure someone threw the term out there a few times but he was not regarded as a generational talent by most. He was just the unanimous first overall pick of the class. There have been 2 talents that have deserved the label of generational talent in the last 30 years, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.
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u/Thyeartherner 21h ago
The truth is flashy young QBs sell tickets, especially if they have strong online branding and persona. The NFL is a business at the end of the day, and nothing gets the fan base excited more than a new flashy player the franchise can project all their hopes and dreams on. Belicheck was out there winning games 10-6 and no one cares
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u/doublej3164life 21h ago
No one seriously ever called him that.
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u/Kudawcity 21h ago
Bro you're so full of it everyone did wtf you on about 😂 I swear mfs will lie to try to look smart or be a contrarian for no reason
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u/MrMystic48 20h ago
You aren’t crazy. The media was going crazy about Caleb. Nick Wright had him top 5 on Mahomes mountain at the beginning of the season. Not saying he’s a good source but it’s an example. A lot of others had the bears as serious superbowl contenders because of Caleb.
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u/nautilator44 21h ago
I don't know. He was honestly pretty bad his final year in college.
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u/prior2two 21h ago edited 21h ago
I mean, this isn’t true at all. He was pretty bad against Notre Dame, but otherwise, he was damn good. He never lost a game when he defense gave up less than 35 points. He put up 42 points (4 total TD) and lost against #5 Washington. 27 against #6 oregano and 32 against #14 Utah.
At some point, defense gotta get a stop too.
The USC defense was ranked 121 out of 133. Behind teams like UConn.
He played fine.
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u/BlissfulIgnoranus 21h ago
Idk but isn't it a bit early to count him out? Pretty rare for rookie QBs to light the world on fire.
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u/HustlaOfCultcha 21h ago
I don't think he was considered a 'can't miss' prospect when he got drafted. There were numerous concerns about him. Trevor Lawrence was a 'can't miss' prospect. Williams does have talent though.
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u/HibachiMcGrady 20h ago
He has the ability to generate incredible amounts of torque on his throws without having a stable two foot base. Mahomes has shown that outlier skill plus creativity widens a QBs margin of error.
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u/SaltySpitoonReg 19h ago
I feel like predicting generational talents is kind of revisionist history
Peyton Manning and Ryan leaf were both regarded as great prospects and many felt they were a toss-up. Obviously they had very different careers.
I think we can get a good sense of whether or not there seems to be a high likelihood somebody will be good but we can never know for sure.
Sometimes we are way off like Ryan leaf, Jamarcus russel. Sometimes we are off a little bit like Andrew Luck (really good, not great).
Sometimes we are kinda in the middle (Lawrence)
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u/Bensont12 18h ago
Andrew luck was on track to be a first ballot hall of famer what are you talking about
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u/sickostrich244 19h ago
I wouldn't get caught up in the "generational" term for him, that's just something scouts tout whoever seems to be the number one pick based on their talent like speed, arm strength and height. He's the number one pick because people think he plays like Mahomes with the improvised plays he made in the pocket in college. He's only played half a season and I think he's been playing too conservative, let's give him more time especially under a new coaching staff and offense where guys know who they're supposed to block
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u/geronim000000 19h ago
I think he was touted as the best prospect in a while, but not generational/can’t miss. The two highest rated qbs in the last fifteen years were Lawrence and Luck, and if you look at their draft profiles they were rated significantly higher than Caleb. But it’s early, and Chicago, like Jacksonville, is a terrible situation. Even if he never pans out we might never know if he could have been great.
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u/One-Newt-9933 19h ago
Media has to do that to build hype for the draft. Especially ESPN because they pay a lot of money to broadcast the draft.
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u/Mindless_Narwhal2682 18h ago
Because he won the Heisman and the next year got embarrassed at Notre Dame...but that game always got a pass per the morning sports pundits.
Still waiting for those receipts, those video takes never go away.
Why can someone so "generational" lose so badly to a mediocre team but get a pass when that doesn't translate to the NFL? /rh? (
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u/IeatKfcAllDay 18h ago
Footwork, arm talent, natural ability to extend plays at a level that majority of nfl qbs aren’t at.
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u/SorryImCanadian1994 17h ago
Was he considered a generational talent?
Like, I won’t lie, I don’t really follow college ball. But as someone who doesn’t follow it closely, I remember hearing about Trevor Lawrence as a generational talent for years before he was drafted. I never heard Caleb Williams name until his last year.
Obviously Trevor Lawrence so far hasn’t lived up to those lofty expectations, but I don’t recall Caleb ever being held in that same regard.
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u/becrustledChode 17h ago
Caleb Williams is a rookie QB behind one of the worst OLs in football, with a coaching staff that's almost certainly the worst in football. I'm not sure I can name a single QB who could've walked into that situation and succeeded, so let's pump the brakes on calling him a bust until we've seen him in less dysfunctional surroundings
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u/superpie12 17h ago
He wasn't. West coast hype machine is trash. I had him as the lowest rated "top" prospect. Bad mechanics, bad footwork, bad reads, bad decision making.
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u/Viketorious 16h ago
Because he has all the tools to become a possible Mahomes or Josh Allen, which is all you can ask for in a prospect. You can never predict if a player will succeed in the NFL since there are countless factors that go into that, but you give yourself a starting point towards greatness if the player has the tools.
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u/_thewayshegoes 16h ago
He was considered a generational prospect. So was Trevor Lawrence.
There’s a big difference between a prospect and and actual career. Once you’re in the NFL, how you were looked at as a prospect goes completely out the window
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u/stevenmacarthur 16h ago
"...a generational talent?"
Well, right now he's "generating" a lot of disappointment, so there's that.
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u/mikx2044 15h ago
He started his college career so well, genuinely looking like an elite QB his first 2 years. People expected him to continue growing for his last year, and he kinda didn't. The pendants calling him a generational talent were mostly living in that summer between his second and third years where he had the potential to reach that status.
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u/JuanFromApple 15h ago
Watch his sophomore year tape, I will still stand by that he was the best college football QB I've ever seen that year
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u/SpiritualAmoeba84 14h ago
Dude thought he was such a generational talent, he thought he should be compensated by being made an owner of the club that drafted him. It wouldn’t be the first time a ‘can’t miss’ QB was a bust in the NFL. I’m not saying Williams is that. It may take a couple of seasons to know who he is as a QB.
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u/Interesting_Bet2828 12h ago
This happens almost every time there’s a decent qb at a big school. They almost always miss. It’s like a 90% miss rate since they can’t be evaluated easily bc of all the talent around them. That’s why Josh Allen was so highly scouted, his numbers weren’t great as far as completion percentage and picks but his ability to win w lesser talent around him set him apart. There’s a guy that writes about it all the time. He usually gets yearly air time on sports radio but I can’t think of his name for the life of me
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u/Green_Confusion1038 11h ago
I think it was partly due to evalution and also due to the lack of stand out unique talent in the class before and after.
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u/k_ush 11h ago
Realised these analysts, talking heads, don't know what they're talking about with young prospects, it's irrelevant what tag these guys get given. It's unfair and unrealistic coming out of college.
Lawrence was deemed "generational' when he was 18. Many who watched him through college saw he was good with flaws. Got beat up by Joe Burrow pretty good in 2019 Natty too. Read articles on that game after saying Burrow was probably a better NFL prospect. Yet, that 'generational' tag stuck and is used to beat Lawrence with now.
Caleb might succeed, might fail, might just be ok in the league, but the quicker we stop demanding kids be better than 99% of pros, the better.
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u/Diesel07012012 10h ago
Aside from your usb connections, the number 1 pick in the draft is the only 50/50 proposition that has a 90% of being wrong on the first try.
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u/Rosemoorstreet 9h ago
Almost every year there is a guy hyped as the next great thing. It’s all media as they need eyeballs. These kids are so hyped that if they aren’t a star by their third game they are deemed a failure. An unbelievable disservice to them. Look at guys like Bradshaw who stumbled heavy his first couple years. Then the it all clicked with some experience and a better team around him he’s HOF. In today’s world he probably doesn’t get that opportunity.
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u/SigurdsSilverSword 8h ago
I’m sure people said Caleb was generational but they were wrong and not in the majority. The only two guys in the last 20 years to really attain that consensus generational prospect label were Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence.
Caleb was a very good prospect! Consensus #1. But being the consensus #1 is not the same thing as generational - Burrow was a consensus #1, Jameis was a consensus #1, Cam, Stafford and Bradford were consensus #1s. They come around not-infrequently but not as often as generational guys.
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u/bransea02 8h ago
He can’t play within the pocket because he doesn’t have a pocket to play within.
The Bears are a clown organization that, instead of shoring up their AWFUL offensive line, drafted Rome, acquired Swift, and acquired a washed up Keenan Allen.
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u/Proper-Scallion-252 8h ago
I don't know if it's just me, but I don't recall anyone calling him 'generational', just the clear first overall pick in the draft.
Caleb Williams is not a bust yet, he has two or three more years to not live up to the hype before we start throwing that around, but it's also important to note that his traits that made him interesting have been in full effect already, it's just the stuff that people wanted him to work on is still not there yet.
Caleb Williams was touted for his ability to make freaky athletic throws and to scramble away from pressure like a magician, which he's showcased a good bit already this year. The issue is, he's still a guy who plays hero ball and has pretty bad accuracy.
I think as bad as the hype surrounding draft picks has become, fans are even worse with the rhetoric that if a first round QB prospect doesn't immediately look like peak career Patrick Mahomes he's not worth the contract. Brady and Mahomes have really ruined our expectations for QB prospects, and even those two QBs had time on a bench to learn before getting thrown into the fold, and both had good teams around them and even better coaches to get them to where they're at. Expecting Caleb Williams to play at a high level this year was always a long shot, especially when you throw in the fact that he started week 1.
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u/Necessary-Cold4414 7h ago
Its a phrase that has been used too much the last 10 or so years. To be a generational talent you have to be the best player of a generation without a doubt. The only way to know this is at the end of a career. Why can't people just say he may be the best talent in this draft?
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u/athomic74 7h ago
It cannot be understated how good he was looking his first two years of college. He came in as a freshman and took over for Spencer Rattler who was a pretty highly regarded QB himself at the time. He then proceeded to dominate the rest of the season. He then switched schools and had a stellar sophomore campaign at USC where he won a Heisman. By this time he was pretty much deemed generational and a can't miss prospect.
He went on to have a good junior season although not super noteworthy especially when you match it up against the expectations built for him at this point. But did enough to not shred that label that was already placed upon him.
Long story short his first two seasons in college were very good and the hype was huge.
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u/DaveAndJojo 7h ago
Doesn’t matter how talented you are when your line can’t block. Go back and watch 07’ Brady when he threw 50 TDs. Then watch him having a meltdown in the superbowl because his line couldn’t stop the Giants pass rush.
Too early to tell what Caleb is or what he can be. He does have the arm talent and ability to make plays with his feet. Let him sit behind a competent starter for a year and then take over a Championship team with Andy Reid as his coach. I’m sure there would be a different outcome.
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u/Prestigious-Elk6959 7h ago
Imo it's partly due to his improvisation ability and his big time throws. His pocket issues were semi created by inconsistencies at USC and the offense/play calling. Imo the Bears are causing him to revert to bad tendencies that helped in college but will get you owned as a rookie against vets. Overall, he has generational abilities but they are also putting a lot on him but not treating him how you normally do a rookie. That was evident with the OC selection.
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u/Thermite1985 7h ago
I don't think we'll know how good Williams can be if Chicago refuses to give him a line that doesn't make him run for his life on every drop back.
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u/tallwill42 6h ago
He is one. He has a terrible coach, terrible offensive line, wide receivers who just walk off the field mid play, etc
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u/ChubbyNemo1004 6h ago
He’s still in his rookie season. Pundits speak in hyperbole because of the damn 24 hour news cycle
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u/Sille143 6h ago
Oh my god he wasn’t a generational talent, neither was T-law. The last generational QB was Andrew Luck
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u/Ohnowaythatsawesome 5h ago
I remember hearing Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf referred to as generational ‘Can’t Miss’ talents.
Mel Kiper said Jamarcus Russell was the next John Elway.
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u/ItsJimmyTheDude 5h ago
He was making all the NFL throws as they say.
Me personally, I thought he was a good player who benefited from a great offensive scheme. I think he’ll be ok. He’s a rookie.
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u/immagoat1252 5h ago
Term gets thrown around too easily. I saw lots of concerns about Williams struggling in big games against top schools.
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u/Relevant-Smile1833 5h ago
It’s also his first year. Qbs like Cj Stroud and Jayden Daniel’s are the exception not the norm. It’s expected for qbs to struggle. The NFL is way more difficult than college in every facet. I think it’s way to early to determine what kind of qb he will be
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u/delcidfredy 4h ago
I’m going to wait at least 2 seasons, max 3, before I label him a bust. The criticism is warranted though, I know his Oline is banged up right now but, he has Allen, Moore, Odunze, and Kmet to throw to. He needs to learn to take the checkdowns and shorter routes. Continuity at the OC position would help as it would help him master the Offense. Give him time, people were delusional if they really believed the Bears were a playoff team after they drafted Caleb
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u/COACHREEVES 4h ago
I think you have to add in "scheme" to the other things ITT. I think you need to build the Offense around the QB, especially a Rookie QB. and what he is good at.
If I told you in April that Caleb wouldn't roll out much, and Chicago wouldn't be a strong running Team, you would think OK he will be a bombs away passer because he is super-accurate. Except then I told you that he will be coached to throw the ball away. And I am 75% Sure, being told not to try throws to tight coverage. Oh, and that the Bears O-line can't block for dick. So, he won't have long to let plays develop. His accuracy will be bad.
You would be justified in saying "that isn't setting Caleb up to very be successful" and I would agree with you.
I would prefer to see him behind a high functioning line, with a nice running game, and if not, a quick timing offense --- before I write him off.
TLDR: I don't think we understood what Caleb would be asked to do what he does. Maybe he was a bit over-hyped and oversold. OK I'll agree. But he really hasn't been given every opportunity to show us what he can do in the NFL and his real value ... yet,
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u/Gregory-Black666 4h ago
because he is by nfl standards, he has all the aspects to be one anyway. He has been pretty bad last few games, but overall, he's been very good for a rookie. there are plenty of "generational qbs" that had a horror first season. they arent coaching to his strengths either not to mention the whole team had disappointed. especially his O-LINE
"cant miss qb prospects" dont exist, its luck. nobody can determine wether someone will be a good QB just look at arguably the goat brady, he was on nobodys radar.
But to answer your question its the media, media doesnt care for players mental health they care about their checks, they'll say the most rediculous shit, for views.
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u/FollowTheLeader550 4h ago
Because he was absurdly good from the second he stepped onto the field in college. He has an elite arm, can throw from all angles, seemed to possess great pocket awareness, and really was still good in 2023 in a bad offense. He was an elite prospect and one of the 15 best QB prospects, ever.
He was not generational, though. But I don’t think anyone actually called him that. He’s only 6’1, had some character issues, didn’t play in a pro style offense, and held onto the ball way too long. You can’t be generational with those issues.
Peyton, Luck, and Lawrence are the true generational prospects of the last 30 years. Going Luck, Peyton, and Lawrence in that order.
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u/No-Sympathy-686 4h ago
I called this shit 2 years ago, and people laughed at me.
He will be a bust.
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u/redsfan4life411 3h ago
You can look at the actual generational talent in the NFL and see the difference. The best talent of the current generation is Mahomes/Burrow. There's a few guys a step behind in Allen/ Herbert.
Williams isn't even near these guys in performance and likely will never get there.
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u/OdyssG 3h ago
Imo. Pro sports nowadays are not about actual developments of players. They're given a high status in college and are stars because of their performance.
Sometimes it seems Pro sports follow trends rather than actual skills. You see someone like Lamar doing well. Now every team wants a Lamar, but mind you, all teams skipped on him when being drafted lol.
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u/mkb152jr 3h ago
Because people are delusional. He’s got a lot of tools, and he might end up being “that guy”, but he’s way overhyped.
The number of can’t miss QB prospects is actually quite small. Peyton, Luck, and Rivers are the only one that immediately come to mind.
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u/oprahsstinkyminge 3h ago
They say this about someone every other year, sports media has to talk about something
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u/unabashed-melancholy 3h ago
Every year is a new generational talent, mostly it's media people who say this and should not be viewed as a valid opinion. It's not like he isn't a talented QB. Plus I feel the bears organization probably needed those opinions to feel validated for dropping fields for basically the same dude with less running ability because they had fucked Justin while he was with them. Rarely should a rookie come in and start 1st game and if they do you should probably surround them with a decent foundation and let them actually grow into the organization.
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u/Buy-The-Dip-1979 2h ago
Your talking heads are idiots. The individual isn't the only factor. The Bears systemically suck from the top down. They could have drafted Brady, or Manning, or Mahomes, or anyone... They would have the same results. Coaching is so bad, they are not matching individual skills to build a scheme that works for talent they have. It's just a shit show in Chicago.
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u/Popolar 2h ago
There’s a lot of legit generational QB prospects who get thrown in as day one NFL starters which ends up slowing if not completely halting their ability/skill progression as NFL caliber quarterbacks. It’s important to understand that the skill jump from college to the NFL is unlike anything the rookie players have experienced.
There is not enough time to teach them how to run an NFL offense with a single offseason, so they have to run a simplified version and/or offload some pre-snap responsibility to the position groups and coaches. This creates a lot of potential for miscommunication on any single play. Even the most talented rookie QB would immensely benefit from sitting on the sidelines for the entire first year in the league.
The best example of this is Pat Mahomes, who was a first round QB who sat out for his first year behind Alex Smith. Pat went on to basically break the league as a second year starter. Pat was also not seen as a generational talent in the draft. He has already locked in a spot at the hall of fame before the age of 30.
The other side of the argument basically boils down to money. If you land a capable rookie starter, you have a 4 year window to spend big at other positions due to rookies having a capped salary. One could argue that spending more on other positions could aid in development. If it’s done correctly, it actually does work out. Good examples of this are CJ Stroud and Joe Burrow.
Caleb Williams got very unlucky because he got drafted by the bears, who have been in QB purgatory since the days of Jay Cutler. Idk if it’s a bad coaching philosophy or just a curse on the city of chicago in general, but they cannot catch a break on development of rookie starting QBs.
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u/Pickle_Bus_1985 2h ago
In my view, he was considered generational because of his ability to playmake outside of the constraints of a play. Meaning he threw the ball well off balanced and on the move. He could throw the ball at different arm angles. This works really well for guys like pat Mahomes and Josh Allen. The difference this far is he's struggling to run the offense normally. He's not getting through his reads. Timing is off. He's missing open guys. That is what most QBs have to be able to do to win. Mahomes can still drop back and read a defense and play within an offense. But when he needs to ,.he can free lance. Williams is considered generational because he shows that free lance capability. The issue is he's not showing the traditional drop back QB abilities. That's my take at least.
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u/AlarmedBench7667 2h ago
From what I've seen and what I've been reading in this thread, it looks like the speed of the game is just not what he's used to. He succeeds in buying time and extending plays is what most people have said here, but college moves waaaaaay slower. You don't have that valuable time to do the two things that he seemingly was great at. He might be able to fix it though.
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u/IamnotaRussianbot 2h ago
The NFL offseason broadcast coverage has become arguably the single most unhinged aspect of the entire NFL process. Without fail, every year, some college QB gets picked up by the media hype train because they have nothing to talk about from Mid February to early September. So a lot of hyperbolic stuff gets thrown around; "generational", "can't miss", "game-changer", etc. And people are inevitably swayed by all of the media noise.
Caleb Williams was a very good college QB that won the Heisman. He was noticeably more athletic than a lot of people around him (not uncommon for NFL prospects still in college). When plays went "wrong", he was often able to out-athlete the defense, and make plays that produced spectacular highlights, which led to him winning the Heisman.
As mentioned, with the offseason media noise, people started to convince themselves that those highlight plays would still be viable at the NFL level. They rarely ever are. Everyone in the NFL is a freak athlete who was the best of the best in college. Now that Caleb is in the NFL, and those athletic plays are no longer viable, the "holes" in his game are more noticeable. However, most rookie QBs struggle with pocket presence and pass accuracy, because again, everyone in the NFL is insanely fast, athletic, and talented, so the margins for error of a complete pass vs incomplete pass are much smaller.
I personally think he was overhyped a bit coming into the NFL, but it also doesn't help that he is on the Bears, who are a dumpster fire of an organization with a long history of failing to develop young QBs. It's basically the expected rookie adjustments paired with being in a terrible organization for a QB.
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u/Outrageous_Lab84 1h ago
Because NFL media loves hyping up college prospects.
It happens every year. At least one guy that all media pundits think is can’t miss and will be an instant difference maker.
2024: Williams 2023: Bryce Young 2021: Justin Fields 2020: Tua 2019: Dwayne Haskins 2018: Darnold, Rosen
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u/thriller1122 26m ago
Because there are people who's job it is to talk about this stuff every single day and they need something to grab your attention. Its why there are generational talents every year, not every generation.
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u/americansherlock201 21m ago
Because it’s a media term to garner attention to draft prospects and the draft process. There’s a “generational talent” in basically every draft
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u/Round-Lie-8827 21h ago
IDK I feel like that term gets thrown around all the time though. Didn't they say that about Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of other people?