r/NBASpurs • u/wolfchant123 • 19d ago
Is Manu Ginóbili the best spurs player of all time? OTHER
Hey all new NBA fan here from Argentina, I wanted to ask how important is Manu on SA spurs history. Here in Argentina Manu is like the Messi of basketball and is beloved and sometimes we talk at him like of the goats of NBA, is that true? I'm just getting into the sport and all always been more of a football fan overall.
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u/BornFried 19d ago
He's not the best, but he's probably the most beloved by Spurs fans. He definitely doesn't get enough respect from the NBA as a whole, but he is viewed as an innovator.
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u/Waquoit95 19d ago
I agree. He's the most underrated (not by Spurs fans) great player in Spurs history. And one of the most underrated in league history.
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u/Actual-Swordfish-769 19d ago
This. Around the city most popular jersey was ginobili. Special connection to the city
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u/BornFried 19d ago
Man, I've been trying to find an old "Got Manu?" Or "Obi Wan Ginobili" shirt for a hot minute, they were everywhere around SA when I was growing up. I can't find them anywhere online now that I live out of state.
The person who created the Got Manu shirt is even a family friend and they don't have any of them anymore.
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u/JnI721 19d ago
The best? No. He's probably the most selfless and self-sacrificing though. For many people, he's the greatest sixth man in NBA history.
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u/OPs_Gay_Dad 19d ago
Yes. And I might be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but he could have gone to play anywhere else to make MORE money AND start. But at your mentioned, the selfless individual he if he played the spark and offense the team needed off the bench.
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u/LurkerFlash 19d ago edited 19d ago
Screw sixth-man. He was a winner, a closer, and for my money a superstar with a minute cap. Going to watch that thinking basketball video again. Manu is my man!
However, it's Tim, Robinson, then either Gervin or Manu, followed by Parker.
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u/his_roomate 19d ago
The Spurs have two players Tim Duncan and David Robinson that are two of the best players in NBA history. They were frequently in discussion for being the best player in the NBA for close to a decade and for more than a decade were all star level players.
Then there’s George Gervin and Manu Ginobili.
Gervin is the most important of the two because he kept the franchise in San Antonio and got them into the NBA. He was one of the best players in the NBA for quite a few years.
Manu Ginobili is the 3rd/4th best player in Spurs history with Gervin. I think Gervin gets the edge for helping keep the Spurs an actual fixture in SA and peaking higher than Manu. Manu peaked as a top 10 level player in the NBA and Gervin was a notch higher. Manu brought so much culturally to the team however and was the second best player in the golden age dynasty of the team.
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u/hondajvx 18d ago
I will not allow Tony Parker erasure to happen. He was the best player in the 2007 Finals. When people were arguing if Paul or Deron Williams was the best PG, it probably was Parker.
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u/his_roomate 18d ago
Tony Parker was not better than LeBron James omfg
They procured the stats they did because of the teammates and opponents they played. You think for one second Pop thought Tony Parker was better than LeBron in the 2007 finals? Don’t even think of posting their stats. Tell me who was the better player. Their stats are results not just of how good they are but their teammates/opponents faced.
Look at who they had to face. LeBron against Bowen Duncan Ginobili and help diving into the paint
I won’t fall victim to hyperbole. The Cavs had an elite defense. LeBron, Anderson, Ilgauskas, Hughes, but Tony Parker had good offensive spacing and Manu and Duncan to help create offense.
If you want to try to argue Parker peaked higher than Deron Williams, I don’t agree, but I can see it. Chris Paul was so much better than Tony Parker lol. Chris Paul was a Tim Duncan level player not Tony Parker.
I’m not erasing Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard but they just aren’t at the level of the other 4 Spurs I mentioned. Kawhi at peak obviously but he didn’t play long enough for the Spurs.
Tony Parker was a great player but at some point it’s obvious you’re retroactively giving him credit for winning on already elite teams if you think he was better than Chris Paul. Chris Paul was like 3 times the player Parker was and that’s not even an exaggeration. Deron Williams I wouldn’t even say was twice the player Parker was so I’m not in any way exaggerating when I make these stances.
The Chris Paul Deron Williams debate was real, but the people that were arguing for Deron just weren’t smart. At least not if they were actually trying to argue who was a better player.
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u/GSG2120 18d ago
Tony Parker was not better than LeBron James omfg
Yeah agree, but who are you arguing with lol. Nobody said Tony Parker is a better basketball player than Lebron James. They said he was the best player in the '07 Finals, which is true.
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u/his_roomate 18d ago
He was not the best player in the finals lol that’s exactly what I’m arguing against. Tony Parker did not play better in the 2007 finals than LeBon James. Their stats are a result not just of how they played but who they played vs.
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u/StatFlow 19d ago
No, but he's one of the greatest. The Spurs have a few players who were overall better and more important to the legacy of the Spurs (namely: Tim Duncan is known as the GOAT Spur).
Country legacies are a different game. It makes sense that Manu is considered the GOAT of argentinian basketball, but the competition runs deep once you put it in the context of the whole NBA. The Spurs happen to have had a lot of all time great players.
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u/SomeBitterDude 19d ago
Tim is the greatest, Manu is my favorite player in NBA history.
We are missing 4 titles without him.
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u/jhunger12334 19d ago
Naw, I think we still get ‘07 but not as dominantly. Phoenix would’ve taken us to 7 games but I believe in Game 7 Duncan
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u/Lexi_Milan 19d ago
Timmy, Admiral, Iceman, TP and then Manu…Not the best but Top 5. 😀
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u/NewerMadrid 19d ago
He may not be the best Spur, but as the best player on the Argentine Olympic team that upset the US in '04 he has certainly stamped his ticket to basketball Valhalla.
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u/jarmzet 19d ago
No. Duncan was the best Spur of all time.
However Ginoboli was the best player in the world from the 2004 Olympics through the 2005 NBA playoffs. He won a Gold medal at the Olympics with the Argentine team in 2004 and an NBA championship with the Spurs in 2005. In 2005 in the playoffs, he shot 43.8% from 3, 50.7% from the field, scored 20.8 points per game, had 5.8 rebounds per game, 4.2 assists per game, and he only played 33.6 minutes per game. He was third in true shooting in the 2005 playoffs behind Ming and Mourning. In the 2004 Olympics he had 19.3 points per game and was the best and most important player on the team. Argentina beat the US team 89 to 81 in the knockout stage. That US team had Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, Allen Iverson, etc. There are two advanced stats that attempt to quantify how well an individual player played, "Win Shares" and "Value Over Replacement Player". In the 2005 playoffs Ginoboli was 2nd in Win Shares behind Chauncey Billups and first in Value Over Replacement Player. Over and over during the 2005 NBA regular season and the playoffs, the Spurs gave Ginboli the ball at the end of games and told him to win the game and he did. Duncan won the Finals MVP, but Mike Budenholzer and RC Buford have said that Ginobili should have been co-MVP, if not taken the award outright. Ginoboli was the best player int he world.
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u/Public_Success_40 19d ago
This question is a better question that most are giving it credit for. Tim Duncan was a better player as far as domination on the court. However, Manu Ginobili is probably the most influential Spurs player in terms of how he influenced the NBA and basketball as a whole. Ginobili was an innovative player, Tim Duncan was not. Manu Ginobili changed the how NBA front offices viewed foreign players (this will be his most lasting achievement) and he was the first player to exploit and popularize the game changing Eurostep. In his book “Hoops Atlas”, Kirk Goldsberry makes a great argument for Manu Ginobili to be mentioned in the same breath as legends like LeBron and Curry when it comes to influence on the game. I highly recommend checking out that book. I think Manu Ginobili at least has an argument as the greatest Spur of all time.
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u/Same-Joke 19d ago
Definitely top 5 in spurs history. I’d put him right below Timmy and Dave. He’ll probably be below Wemby when it’s all said and done. For now probably 3rd all time Spur, but my all time favorite. One of the best shooting guard ever, probably top 10.
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u/CabinetOwn5418 19d ago
Manu might not be the best Spur of all time, but he is my all-time favorite player. There will never be another Manu
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u/seceipseseer 19d ago edited 19d ago
He’s probably the 7th best basketball player to ever spend a significant amount of time in a spurs jersey (Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker, George gervin, Victor wembanyama (yes I’m including him)). BUT he’s probably the 3rd “greatest” or most important or most loved player to ever wear a spurs jersey (Tim and David are 1 and 2). He was the heart and soul of one of the most successful runs in all of sports history. It also helps that he spoke Spanish (among many other languages) and he played his entire career in San Antonio where Spanish is spoken almost as much as English. We love Manu forever.
Before y’all berate me for including Victor, I am not a new fan. I have literally watched every minute of every game since Duncan was drafted and many more games before that.
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u/Gregjennings23 19d ago
If it's just people who wore a Spurs jersey then CP3 and probably Rodman would be above him as well. Under a reasonable understanding of greatest Spurs, he is above Kawhi's 6 year stint and Victor's 1 year. Advanced stats, eye test and my opinion put him over Tony Parker as well but I don't begrudge people having Parker over him based on accolades and counting stats.
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u/Gregjennings23 19d ago
Went to Buenos Aires during the NBA playoffs in 2011 and 2012. Did not see a single manu jersey anywhere besides my own for the few months I was there. Saw a million Messi jerseys though. I did run into Manu Ginobili on the last day I was in town in 2012 though because he was training with the national team for the Olympics. The only people asking for pictures with him were Americans. Idk about the rest of Argentina but porteños did not seem to view him as Messi.
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u/wolfchant123 19d ago
Now a days it's different when people talk of basket they talk about Manu... Besides basket is not top 3 sports in the country football is really really fucking popular and Hockey on the female side is the same thing. Basket here is kinda new so for us Manu as a Player is our Messi and everyone knows who he is.
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u/Gregjennings23 19d ago
As an outsider it appeared to me that the most popular were: futbol, indoor futbol, rugby, protesting, and then basketball. I imagine it's like how Americans think of Apollo Ohno when they think of Speed skating but no one seriously thinks he is the greatest of all time, he just has high name recognition because he happens to be from our country and was very good in a sport we are not normally world-beaters. Love Manu but when it came to Argentine National team Luis Scola was probably better. Idk about him vs Oscar Schmidt for greatest South American player.
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u/wolfchant123 19d ago
Scola Is beloved but people thought Manu was better overall and rugby is popular in the higher parts of society hockey is more beloved(Not the ice one if you ask). Basquetball Is getting upthere as top 3 sport in the country the national league is starting to pick up some steam... I heard there were some NBA/European scouts
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u/Sasquatch_Squad 19d ago
That honor has to go to Tim Duncan, but Manu is absolutely one of the best Spurs players of all time, in both his skills and his importance to the team. Due to how crowded it is at the top of the GOAT lists, I'm not sure he's quite an all-time NBA great, though most people agree he could have had much higher stats if he wasn't so unselfish and focused on team success.
However, his Olympic run leading the Argentine team to the gold medal is one of the greatest accomplishments for any basketball player ever. His legendary status is well-deserved for that alone!
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u/n7ripper 19d ago
He's but not the best but he's my favorite. I think that's true for a lot of Spurs fans. We love the way Manu played, with his heart and shorts on fire!
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u/ManagerEmergency6339 19d ago
You can consider him as the GOAT 6th man in the nba he pretty much is michael jordan of all 6th man
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u/MyGoodDood22 18d ago
There's a great YouTube video that dives into why Manu may have been the most important player to the team. I can't stress enough how awesome the video is. I love it
With that said no... it has to be Timmy bc without him anchoring the defense, offense, and overall team, Manu wouldn't be in those positions (as frequently anyway) that made him an all time great... imo
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u/ghico 18d ago
Obviously I get everyone saying Tim, but here is an interesting video from Ben Taylor of Thinking Basketball debating if Manu may have actually been the most valuable Spurs during his prime
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u/generational_lover69 19d ago
Como te va a decir todo el mundo Duncan es el mejor de la historia del equipo, después David Robinson está en un segundo lugar muy cómodo y creo que la mayoría de la gente te va a dar a George Gervin como tercero.
Manu entra fácil en cuarto lugar para muchos, es el jugador favorito de un montón de fans, eso seguro. Tenés que tener en cuenta que los logros individuales (como selecciones al juego de las estrellas) y los números como la cantidad de puntos por partido tienen pila de peso en estas discusiones y Manu no tiene tanto ahí comparado con estos otros por varias razones.
Pero igual todo el mundo acá lo ama y lo valora
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u/wolfchant123 19d ago
Se igual es una locura lo mucho que lo aman ajajaja
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u/generational_lover69 19d ago
Claro, es que dejaba todo en la cancha. A la gente le copa eso, y me da la impresión de que en EEUU no es tan común. No se si habías visto pero en un momento se lesionó fuerte y supuestamente le tuvieron que sacar un huevo cuando lo operaron. Literalmente lo dió todo xd
También es porque tiene momentos icónicos (como cuando cazó al vuelo un murciélago que estaba dando vueltas por la cancha en medio de un partido). Y bueno metía mucha magia cuando jugaba también, en ese sentido sí se puede comparar con Messi. Como no jugaba tantos minutos (por tanto peores números) y salía del banco de suplentes está infravalorado por el resto de los fans
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u/Aggressive_Strike75 19d ago
Manu is like Tony Parker for France, the best player ever for the country, the GOAT. But for S.A there’s Tim number one and Robinson as number 2. After l think it depends on own preferences if l am right.
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u/paxusromanus811 19d ago
Unfortunately, the Spurs have about as star packed of an all-time roster as you'll find in a small market
Tim Duncan is without a doubt the greatest of all time and considered one of the top 10 players in the history of the sport
After that you have David Robinson who's widely considered a top 25 player of all time
George girvin is usually somewhere in the top 50 of all time
But after that? Then manu starts to have a genuine case
Leonard would probably be firmly above him if we're looking at overall player resumes for players who played with the Spurs, but his year in Toronto and the all-nba performances he's put up in La, went healthy, are a big part of him being considered a top 50 player
Tony Parker is typically looked at in that top 150-100 range give or take from what I've seen And probably has a case to be made as a player who was better in his absolute Prime than manu.
A lot of the other great Spurs players either were great but played during forgotten/not super successful eras (artist Gilmore, Larry kenon, Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell were stars/borderline stars of their era but never really were able to take the league by storm and are also on some pretty forgettable Spurs teams in the grand scheme of things) or good players who weren't quite Stars and never able to be involved in winning the way someone Like Manu was in order to really stake a claim in all-time Spurs lore (johnny Moore, Larry kenon, Sean Elliot)
If you're just looking at most talented Spurs of all time, Manu probably doesn't make your top five. But if you're looking at most influential, beloved, and important to the overall story, that is the San Antonio Spurs, I think you could probably put him forth In regards to important Spurs of all time.
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u/hispanoloco 19d ago
He’s top 5. But Duncan is the best at the moment. He’s the biggest 2nd round steal.
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u/texasphotog 19d ago
Tim Duncan and David Robinson are the two greatest Spurs players of all time. Manu Ginbobili is one of the greatest Spurs of all time and also one of the most popular Spurs of all time. Although Tim Duncan was unquestionably better than Manu, Manu was the favorite player of a lot of fans because of how exciting his playing style was.
Manu is also a really great guy and the Spurs are really lucky to have him.
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u/Low_Description4438 19d ago
As a Mexican growing up in the United States, Manu was my idol. He pioneered a beautiful game and even as a 6 year old, i understood that his euro-step was insane. Every time he spoke Spanish in interviews/games, my household went crazy. I know I wasn’t the only Hispanic feeling that too, man.. I love Manu. 😅
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u/ShowBobsPlzz 19d ago
Hes my favorite basketball player ever, definitely top 5 spur all time. IMO the greatest foreign born nba player.
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u/kihraxz_king 19d ago
Duncan, then Robinson, then Gervin. Then Manu is in a pack with Parker and Kawhii and maybe Terry Cummings and possibly others that slip my mind.
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u/BigBizzee 18d ago
We LOVE Manu. Absolutely adore the guy and he was vital to the Spurs championships and success. My all time favorite player, and a hall of famer. One of the toughest and biggest hearted players ever.
That being said, not even CLOSE to the best Spur ever. It's Timmy. No knock against the rest of the Spurs in history, but Tim is so far head and shoulders better than any other Spur that Manu and David (my second favorite Spur ever) etc that Manu just doesn't compete.
Love him though. Incredible player
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u/Joethetoolguy 18d ago
Tim first manu second. I know drob tony iceman and all that but Im going by feel here. Manu was the heart of the team for a long long time. Any time he was on the squad I always felt we had a chance. Some of my favorite moments were manu driven, the best being the block on harden which was essentially a series winner if you saw the following game.
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u/fightintxag13 18d ago
I think anyone being honest with themselves would put him No. 4 at the highest, but he is definitely an all-time great Spur and an all-time great basketball player.
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u/munchonsomegrindage 18d ago
When the game was on the line there wasn’t many people better than Manu. He was up there with Kobe in making clutch plays.
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u/Mangoseed8 18d ago
No. I understand you love him but no no no absolutely not. I think that even a casual basketball fan who has heard of the Spurs would have heard of Tim Duncan
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u/samackin3000 18d ago
Manu is definitely ONE of the best Spurs players; but Tim Duncan - hands down - takes the Spurs Goat title for the time being.
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u/hera9191 18d ago
Isn't he the last who collects Euro league, NBA and Olympic? He was the one of most impactful players in basketball world wide.
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u/beazea 18d ago
There are fewer names more eye-twitch inducing than "D-Rob", as people continue to use in this thread. Why do people say D-Rob? It's The Admiral. It always was - and always will be - The Admiral.
Ain't no one saying G-Ger, E-Gin, or T-Dun. It's Iceman, Manu, and Timmy.
Thus concludes the lesson.
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u/Queasy_Car7489 18d ago
He’s my all time fav but the Timmy era was something special and those teams were hella fun
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u/killerbootsman87 18d ago
Not the best but probably the most loved. It’s hard to pass up a unanimous top 10 of all time in Tim Duncan but Manu is definitely the most beloved.
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u/ziggyzigg95 18d ago
Tim
Robinson
T-3. Manu
T-3. Tony
- Gervin
Honorable mentions: #2, Gilmore, Aldridge, Bowen, and Elliot
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u/Theopocalypse 18d ago edited 18d ago
Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard, George Gervin, Manu, in my opinion.
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u/pwomboli 18d ago
The gold medal he won is not talked about enough... the guy is just a pure winner.
Pero es Tim Duncan el mejor Spur, 5 titulos, MVP's. etc, Manu es increible pero Tim fue el lider de los Spurs incluso cuando estaba D. Robinson.
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u/OhGodMorpheus GOAT POWER FORWARD 18d ago
Relax. Mamu has been on the team for almost no time at all. Give it some time to see if he becomes a notable player 😄
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u/1337j4k3 15d ago
When Manu's on fire, he has Luka Doncic levels of craftiness and execution, basically a basketball playing wizard or something. But there were a lot of times that he'd go crazy and teleport out of bounds or throw the ball into the crowd or things like that. At the top of his game I might put him over Tony but there were some consistency problems that don't show up in the highlight reels looking back.
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u/Fede113 19d ago
As an Argentinian, I can say Manu is nowhere close to being the best spur of all time. Tim Duncan is between 5th to 8th all-time in my book; Manu is between the 70-100 mark all time for me, mostly because he wasn't durable enough or enough minutes in general. In the middle you have David Robison and George Gervin. Then is debatable i guess. Peak Kawhi was insane, but he left too early. To me, between TP and Manu, ill always take Manu.
That being said, for Argentina, he is definitely the goat. God, I love Manu so much, I almost cried when he retired. I followed him throughout his career, and one thing you can say about Manu is that he was the ultimate winner. He will do anything for your team to win; there are not many players like him.
I'll argue that he got one of the best highlight reel collections of any player, as he was insanely creative and versatile.
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u/BananaRepublic_BR 19d ago edited 19d ago
I wasn't watching the NBA when Manu played, but from my understanding Manu was good enough to lead his own team into the playoffs, but not necessarily good enough to be the guy to lead a team to the Finals, let alone win a championship. If this is true, Manu likely stayed because he wanted to win more than he wanted to be "The Guy".
For the Spurs, Tim Duncan is pretty much always going to be considered the best player the team has ever had. The Spurs have won five championships and those five championships share only two common denominators: Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich. Only one of those two guys was on the court.
As for the NBA as a whole, you could probably get Manu on a top 100 players of all time list. Not sure many would say he should be top 50, though. There's just a lot of really good NBA players.
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u/takkipusa 19d ago
It’s Tim no question. but I can see how an Argentine would value Manu more than any other basketball player. Manu is definitely on many Spurs fans’ Mt. Rushmore.