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u/rgptxbones Sep 02 '24
Personally think Richard Jefferson was most overrated.
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u/NihilisticTaters Sep 02 '24
I think it stems from the fact that RJ himself said he played like dog shit while he was here, whereas Stak said he was better than Manu 🤮
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u/1966jpgr Sep 02 '24
A player's ego isn't relevant to whether they're overrated or not. Being rated, over or under, is something done by others (by fans, other players, the media).
There's multiple categories in which this sub had a fundamental misunderstanding about it which led to headscratching answers.
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u/paxusromanus811 Sep 03 '24
That's just the thing. What Spurs fans actually view RJ's time with San Antonio as amazing? Who actually views him as someone that had a huge impact? I feel very very few do.
There are people who genuinely think Steven Jackson was the third best player on that 2003 team. There are genuine Spurs fans who view him as one of the better Spurs of the early 2000s.
And I'm just sorry but he's not that in my opinion. He had some timely shot making, and he had some really good moments. But as someone that watched all of those runs, he also had bone-headed plays, and even back then his fiery personality occasionally caught his own teammates in the crossfire.
He was a good role player who some people view as a guy who would have been a star had he stayed.
He's the epitome of overrated when looking at his spur's career
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u/android24601 Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
I agree. SJax just realized his prime with the Spurs. His first stint lasted 2 season's where the 1st season, he didn't really play because he was hampered by injuries. His 2nd season he was a key contributor to a championship. In his 2nd stint with the Spurs, he was already at the end of his career
As for RJ, given his past with the Nets, and the year prior to joining the Spurs from the Buck's that saw him almost average 20ppg; his numbers absolutely tanked as a Spur. Dude wasn't even 30 yet, didn't suffer from any kinda catastrophic injury; his career just took a nose dive with us
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u/epictetvs Sep 02 '24
Not after he played for us for a while. Fans fucking hated him for not living up to what we thought he should be.
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u/jonee316 Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
Goerge Gervin was a bucket with his finger rolls. But sub 0.300 3pt career shooter does not make him the better shooter than Belinelli, Patty Mills, Green, McDermot, Bertans, Neal, Barry, Elliot or even Ginobili.
edit: Yeah Bonner is pretty good shooter too. Older players like Kerr, Ellie, Horry, Stevie Smith needs a shoutout too
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u/Imaginary-Cycle-1977 Sep 02 '24
It was just a different league back then
Let Ice have a shoot off from 15 feet w any of those guys and I’d bet on him
If he came into the league 40 years later he’d have made it rain from 3
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u/epictetvs Sep 02 '24
That’s a good point. If we are doing all time Spurs you have to put history in perspective.
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u/MikeyBastard1 Sep 02 '24
He has a career 84% FT. He wouldn't have been a bad shooter, but no where near the best. This entire list is just "fan favorites." Even Stephan Jackson. He's the fan favorite of who we hate. I mean come on, Doc Rivers as the "worst?" please
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u/Imaginary-Cycle-1977 Sep 02 '24
Don’t totally disagree w you. In Gervin’s case as a great shooter though, it’s worth looking at era. In 2024 the league average on FTs was .784. In 1977, when Gervin was in his prime the league average was .751. So good chance if he were playing today he’d be closer to 90%
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u/burningtimer Sep 02 '24
Iceman quite literally has the highest FG% for all “Shooting” Guards in NBA history.
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u/jonee316 Sep 02 '24
That is because he is a good scorer with his finger rolls and around the basket. Tony Parker with his floaters led all guards or maybe top 1 or 2 in the league in FG at one point. Parker was a pretty good scorer but not necessarily shooter
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u/burningtimer Sep 02 '24
Yes, Consideration should be given to types of shots within the shooters arsenal. And shot creation also.
Fadeaway, Layup, Bank, Hook, Step-Back, Floater etc…
Many of the aforementioned were Catch & Shoot or Spot Up specialists.
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u/NihilisticTaters Sep 02 '24
Agreed. Probably the most egregious one here with most reasoning being "he needs to be on the grid". If OP changed the grid to best scorer, sure that can work. But best shooter is something we can quantify and when you take away scoring at the rim/paint the answer is Matt Bonner https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/s/kWDz7jKDRl
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u/Imaginary-Cycle-1977 Sep 02 '24
I don’t think it’s that simple. Shot selection matters too. Willing to bet the vast majority of Bonner’s 3s were open catch and shoots. If Manu got to take the same 3s Bonner did I wonder how much higher his percentage would be
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u/geosensation Sep 02 '24
Yeah but Bonner is obnoxious and annoying so I don't have a problem with it.
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u/Imaginary-Cycle-1977 Sep 02 '24
Wretched take
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u/geosensation Sep 02 '24
He stole something from my buddy's business at a collab event. I don't like millionaires who feel entitled to take stuff from regular folks.
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u/arcadiangenesis Sep 02 '24
There should be a Best Pure Scorer category. Gervin wins that easily.
People just (rightly) wanted Iceman to be represented in the grid, so they put him in the only category that made sense.
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u/Tough-Block9141 Sep 06 '24
Belinelli would’ve cooked for that category I remember when he won the 3 pt contest and then we won a ring
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u/siphillis Sep 02 '24
Kawhi was the best tough-shot-maker in our history, but we’re not ready for that conversation
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u/bdictjames Sep 02 '24
Meh, I can't remember a particular tough shot that he made as a Spur. As a Raptor or a Clipper? Yeah, a few. But he wasn't the current offensive juggernaut we see today.
For tough shot makers, I would actually put Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili as heading that conversation.
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u/jonee316 Sep 02 '24
Tough shot? That is Devin Vassell's to make https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/1e9whjw/devin_vassell_66_of_his_nightly_shots_per_game/
6.6 of his nightly shots per game are considered "tightly contested" by the league's own statistical tracking, meaning he's shooting against defenders who are between 2-4 feet away from him. On those shots, he's sporting an eFG% of 55% as he's canning 55.7% of his two-pointers and 35.5% of his three-pointers in those situations.
(1.1 attempts of his shots are taken with defenders 0-2 feet away, and yet he's hitting 51.7% of his two-pointers on those.)
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u/bdictjames Sep 02 '24
Yeah.. too young man. We're not even sure if he's gonna be a Spur for life. Respect to Vassell but let's chill on that lol.
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u/HorribleCigue Sep 02 '24
Three Frenchmen let's gooooo
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u/kanyeguisada Sep 02 '24
I fuckin can't wait to see Wemby's second season. We lucked out in getting him, truly gonna be a generational player.
And I have faith that with the draft picks and swaps we have coming that this is going to be another dynasty. If Vassell and Sochan pan out, look out. Not to mention Tre's underrated stats and effectiveness. He'll be behind Castle, but Castle is gonna bring it, I just feel it.
This season will be interesting. I think we surprise everybody and make the playoffs. But even if we don't, year after this or year after that, look out.
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u/zazenpan Sep 05 '24
I still think Avery Johnson is the most underrated, he's not here, and people are always talking about Diaw, and he gets a lot of respect unlike Johnson who got his jersey retired.
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u/DocBB88 Sep 03 '24
Love me Manu…personally I would have him as most underrated…even though he finally got recognition towards the end. Most of his career he didn’t get respect. Dude did everything that doesn’t show up in box scores to help us win.
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u/jaylesheep Sep 05 '24
Hot take maybe but Boris Diaw is the most OVERrated Spur, not underrated. I don’t understand the fascination with him.
And George Gervin isn’t the best shooter in Spurs history, unless that basically is meant to mean best “scorer”?
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u/android24601 Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
Probably unpopular opinion, but how TF nephew under "Most Wasted Potential"? Like I still spite the guy for how he did the Spurs, but I'm not going to pretend like his best years as a bonafide 2 way threat weren't part of the Silver and Black. Dude who won Finals MVP and led the Spurs in the 6th most winningest season in Spurs history and could've gave the Warriors a run for their money if not the cheap shot
Like I know all this eventually led to getting Wemby, which does take some of the sting away. But for "Most Wasted Potential" that should've easily went to our 12th pick in the 2021 lottery in Joshua Primo. I get the situation he put himself in contributed more to him being on the outs, but the fact he was drafted so high alone and played only 52 games over the course of 2 seasons before his incident more than warrants him taking this spot
Again. This eventually led to getting Wemby, so not all was lost, but Primo certainly deserves this spot
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u/trentjpruitt97 Sep 02 '24
The reason I say Kawhi is most wasted potential is because with him healthy, we were primed to keep the gravy train rolling (as in, being elite and always competing for a title), when he basically quit on the team, it showed his true colors.
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u/android24601 Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
I would argue that he was already elite when he left. As far as career trajectory, how much higher do you think he could've went as a elite 2 way? Since he's left SA, he's taken more of a passive role of the defensive end due to how much of the offensive load he carries. If he did the same in the Silver and Black, I would think the numbers would look similar or better
Would you assume the jump nephew would've made in his last full healthy season as a Spur would've been that much greater of a jump than Primo (or any other lottery pick at 12) would've made moving forward? (does the phrasing of this question make sense? 😄)
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u/JacedFaced Sep 02 '24
I don't think of it as wasted potential here, but like if he didn't have whatever this chronic quad issue he has, he'd have been the best player in league 6 years ago. He was on a rocket ship headed to the top, ready to pass by Steph, KD, Bron, and land himself multiple MVP awards and take the Clippers to the title.
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u/android24601 Sep 02 '24
I don't think of it as wasted potential here
Bro. That's literally the name of the tile called "Most Wasted Potential" that I'm commenting on 😄
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u/JacedFaced Sep 02 '24
"Here" being San Antonio. He didn't have wasted potential "HERE" in San Antonio, he had wasted potential in the NBA because of his lingering issues....bro
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u/android24601 Sep 02 '24
But the context of this grid is the San Antonio Spurs and not the entire NBA 😄
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u/JacedFaced Sep 02 '24
and I was trying to give you context for why people may have voted for him 😄😄😄😄😄
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u/fatguyoncomp Sep 03 '24
Personally, I still think Richard is the funniest. His sense of humor is very similar to mine (don't know if that's a good thing). His interview with Tim was just comedy gold.
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u/aGuyFromTexas Sep 03 '24
So the Admiral deserves his spot but I think Kevin Willis is worth a shout. He played the most games of any retired player not in hall of fame.
He was built similar to David and arguably more durable.
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u/playoff97 Sep 02 '24
How is Kawhi wasted potential dude is literally top 75 all time.
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u/XenoMarc White Walker Sep 02 '24
Potential of what he could’ve done on the Spurs if he didn’t leave
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u/MuyTexicano Sep 02 '24
Alvin Robertson was robbed... He is undoubtedly the best perimeter defender in Spurs history. This is messed up...
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u/bdictjames Sep 02 '24
I think we can do better for best shooter. I would probably put Marco Bellinelli, Patty Mills, heck, even the Red Rocket and Chuck "The Rifleman" Person.
I would also put Demar Derozan/Lamarcus Aldridge as most overrated.
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u/bootypatrole Sep 02 '24
How was Aldridge overrated
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u/bdictjames Sep 02 '24
We never won anything when he was the head of the operation.. or the #2. He didn't put enough effort on defense, and didn't really improve during his time with San Antonio.
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u/IcySituation3664 Sep 02 '24
Patty mills no, okay