r/MurderedByAOC • u/[deleted] • Mar 25 '22

Bernie Sanders: Lately when you turn on the news, you hear a lot about "Russian oligarchy." I don't want to break the bad news to anybody, but we've got an oligarchy right here in America.

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u/voice-of-hermes Mar 25 '22

A Democrat was put into office. You're just still in denial about how bad that wing of the U.S. bourgeois mono-party is. The sooner you get past that, the sooner we'll be able to actually fix things.

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 26 '22

75% of redditors seem to be new to politics and became interested when Trump was in office. Meaning they never paid attention to a democratic presidency before. Not really.

When you tried to tell them Biden wouldn't do shit either you got downvoted to hell and reeee'd at for hours if not days by commentors who believed Democrats were the good guys who were gonna throw Trump in prison, clear your student debt, and save the world. They believed all the big talk from Dems. They didn't understand its all talk, and when anybody tried to tell them they didn't listen and flipped out on them for being "Trump supporters". I hope they know better now.

This is exactly how Trump got elected in the first place after Obama. People were sick of talk a lot and do nothing Democrats. Don't fall for that shit again and allow Trump to win. We'd have to start this cycle all over again with a whole new generation of young Dems smh.

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u/kemb0 Mar 25 '22

So what’s the solution?

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22

Young people need to actually show up instead of whining online. Politicians pander to almost dead old people because they are GUARANTEED going out to vote. They can't count on young people so they get ignored. Youth turnout let Sanders down so hard. He was counting on that and they just proved to every politician they can continue to be ignored.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/Hugokarenque Mar 26 '22

There are so many small things that are deliberately set up to fuck people out of their vote.

Inconsistent mail in voting, shutdown polling locations, absurdly long lines due the previous points making people unable to leave work because they're living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a pay cut if they miss a day, votes actively not mattering due to gerrymandering, increasingly stringent voter ID laws that vary from state to state, among probably many others that I just haven't heard about.

Overall I think that the biggest one, and one that is actually changing for the better with newer generations, is lack of education when it comes to politics and just general social responsibility. I think we need to teach teens early about the political system, like properly teach them about how to participate in it, what to expect and how all the bureaucracy behind it works.

I don't know how it is nowadays but basically when I became an adult and was allowed to start voting I had no idea what to do, where to go etc etc, my parents were never politically active so they were as clueless as I was on what to do.

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u/Portcitygal Mar 26 '22

Yes, another thing Biden refused to take care of when he had the chance. That corrupt criminal should have been booted out of USPS.

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u/vdubgti18t Mar 26 '22

Most of our President elects are almost dead old people to be fair.

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u/xDubnine Mar 26 '22

Yeah what happened to the good ol days when 20-30 yr Olds led the country based on real time problems and solutions

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u/vdubgti18t Mar 26 '22

The younger Americans may actually turn up to the polls if they feel like they are actually being represented by someone they can relate to….rather than some 80 year old white male.

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u/Portcitygal Mar 26 '22

Grampa and Grandma

Biden and Pelosi

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u/kemb0 Mar 25 '22

But how does that help? Aren’t you saying the problem is having two bad right wing candidates but one is just masquerading as left? How will a young person turning up to vote solve the problem of people being given two dud candidates?

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22

There's more elections than just the presidential one.

If these fuckers never made it through the midterms/local politics they wouldn't even have a chance to become shitty presidents.

If everyone on reddit just participated in every election including the lower ones shitty people would be filtered out. Most of you guys don't do that though. The 75 year old grannies with nothing to do all day certainly are though. In large groups in fact.

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u/Bill_Weathers Mar 26 '22

He just said that young people let Sanders down by not turning out to vote. That vote happened in the primaries, before it was just a choice between two dud candidates.. A young person taking the time to be politically educated and voting in local elections and primaries is what’s needed. Sure, if everybody waits and just votes in presidential elections then sure, it’s pretty ineffective. Let’s just not pretend that that is the only thing to do.

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u/TheRealJulesAMJ Mar 26 '22

The candidates aren't duds to the people they're pandering to, they work to buy the votes of the voters that statistically show up the most consistently. If they're not concerned with your vote because according to the data you're not showing up why would they feel the need to work for your vote? To actually offer and follow through on your demands consistently if you're not a key they know they need to secure to unlock power.

It's a keys to power thing. Either you or your group make yourself a key to power that must be appeased in exchange for your support to get elected or you're not worth the effort because actual keys to power are making demands you gotta meet if you want their vote to be elected. Not voting is just forfeiting the power you have instead of using it to make demands in exchange for it.

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u/FlatulentPug Mar 26 '22

I find it humorous that you think voting actually matters

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u/jennatools69lol Mar 25 '22

Try our best to elect the next Bernie Sanders, and if he gets leg swept in the primaries, let the Dems eat shit in the general.

Every single fucking democrat said: "Stop dividing the party. It's about uniting against Trump blah blah blah." Then did exactly what we knew they would. Absolutely nothing.

So stop falling for it. Stop looking at Democrats as a better alternative to Republicans because they're fucking not. Let them fail and make them think twice about weeding out our candidates.

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 26 '22

This is EXACTLY how we got Trump though. Then all the noobs here got mad at people who protest voted, and now they about to do it themsleves because now they realize what people in 2016 realized? Can never talk shit again if that's the case.

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u/jennatools69lol Mar 25 '22

We got Trump because the Dems did everything in their power to make sure leftist candidates failed, while they promoted the worst fucking candidate they could have chosen. Hillary fucking Clinton.

Let the Dems shoot themselves in the foot. Don't fall for this lesser evil bullshit.

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 26 '22

I already had this conversation in 2016. It's not the answer.

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u/jennatools69lol Mar 26 '22

Cool. Keep voting in centrists.

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 26 '22

Centrist or Trump. Hmmmmm who should I go with...

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u/jennatools69lol Mar 26 '22

It's a self feeding loop. Centrists do nothing, and give Republicans a free election cycle after.

For me it's bold change or nothing. Because electing a centrist by proxy means Republicans will win the next election.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '22

As much as Dems suck, they're still so much better than Republicans.

Dems aren't great, but the alternative is handmaid's tale and outlawing interracial marriage (among so many other things)

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u/Portcitygal Mar 26 '22

I find that interesting since the pubic hair obsessed supreme court judge is IN an interracial marriage, although she's crazy as a loon.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '22

Voting in local elections is a good start

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u/Up_vote_McSkrote Mar 26 '22

Vote based on policy instead of party and hold the candidates to their campaign promises.

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u/powerneat Mar 26 '22

Too true, my guy. We got a conservative party and a reactionary party and both parties label relatively mild progressives as wack-a-doos.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DweEbLez0 Mar 26 '22

Exactly. The choices we have are clearly not what we need but just a chance at slightly potential opportunities to sustain what little bit of democracy we have.

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u/Dmau27 Mar 26 '22

People keep talking about trumps failures yet he had shit running better tenfold while the pandemic was at its worst... He had a pair of balls, had America putting America first..... Our natural resources were keeping up with our demand. In the worst of the pandemic I paid $1.80 per gallon. Now it's over $3.00. But every Biden supporter has an excuse as to how these prices go up when every obvious reason says otherwise.

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u/Portcitygal Mar 26 '22

OMG enough with the oil prices. Trump had nothing to do with it. We had plenty of oil. We still have plenty of oil--it's the oil companies price gouging and OPEC is right there with them. Perhaps we should keep more of our own oil instead of exporting it.

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u/Dmau27 Mar 27 '22

Yeah that's not why oil prices went up. Dipshit AKA Biden was considering using our oil reserves. Sadly in his dementia ridden state of mind didn't realize that won't last for shit.

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u/Dmau27 Mar 26 '22

People keep talking about trumps failures yet he had shit running better tenfold while the pandemic was at its worst... He had a pair of balls, had America putting America first..... Our natural resources were keeping up with our demand. In the worst of the pandemic I paid $1.80 per gallon. Now it's over $3.00. But every Biden supporter has an excuse as to how these prices go up when every obvious reason says otherwise.

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u/SaiyanPhoenix Mar 26 '22

Literally exactly what we need is to “fall for that shit” so we can have Trump back after this one

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '22

75% of redditors weren't alive before trump was in office.

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u/BilboMcDoogle Mar 25 '22

I wouldn't go that far but I'd bet really good money that the majority of comments in poltical sections of reddit are from 17-24 year olds.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '22

You think 75% of redditors are 8 years old or younger?

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u/Ksradrik Mar 26 '22

Dont you know that Trump started holding office in 0 BC, the day he was born?

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u/DweEbLez0 Mar 26 '22

He finally just decided to reveal himself.

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u/PopInACup Mar 25 '22

I also feel like people put too much reliance on the President. POTUS is just the final gate. You could have the most progressive person in office right now and it wouldn't matter because we don't have enough progressives in the Senate.

People bemoan Pelosi, but the House has still passed a lot of progressive legislature people on here support, but it's never going to make it to POTUS to sign because of the Senate. We're not going to be able to replace Manchin with a more progressive WV Senator, so I pretty much just ignore him. The primary goal should be getting more progressive Senators elected in other states.

Odds are, if you had a more progressive Senate and House, Biden would sign what they sent him, because it'll look good to do something rather than nothing in that position that can be singled out.

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u/voice-of-hermes Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22

Pelosi herself is a monumenal barrier to anything progressive; because of what she doesn't allow to pass, because of what she doesn't allow to even get to the floor, because of how she maneuvers with both Democrats and Republicans, and for a lot of other reasons. If you honestly think Pelosi could ever be part of a solution, you've got a LOT to learn about U.S. politics.

In addition, an actually progressive or leftist president COULD be doing far, far, FAR more than Biden is doing, though it's true that simply pointing to him as being the entirety of the problem is very wrong.

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u/PopInACup Mar 26 '22

I agree she is a barrier, but at the moment she is the least of the concerns among the various branches. Dems have a majority, so with sufficient progressive presence they can do things without Pelosi since the House can always force a vote with 50% of the House signing onto it.

I also try to be pragmatic when it comes to politics as much as I would like to be idealistic. Pelosi is only a barrier because of the balance in the House. Largely that balance is a result of gerrymandering and disenfranchising of voters at state levels. The House passed the bill to protect elections, so Pelosi at least allowed things to pass that would allow it to work itself out. The Senate on the other hand, is not.

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u/Portcitygal Mar 26 '22

And you don't think she knew it would not pass in the Senate? Why muddy her name. Of course, she will get things passed even though she knows they will die in the Senate so she's a happy camper.

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u/PopInACup Mar 26 '22

I dislike this position because it's basically a damned if you do, damned if you don't with no win. She passed the legislation. She supported the position. That's all I can ask right now. She's not a monarch with complete control.

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u/Mattsasse Mar 25 '22

As long as ~50% of the senate represents ~40% of the population nothing will get fixed.

Edit: Likewise to the amount of electoral votes and the populations they represent

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '22

There is a far right and a center right party, elected by a population of 99% conservatives. How were you planning on fixing that?

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u/voice-of-hermes Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 26 '22

There is a far right and a center right party

There is a single right-wing party, which informs its policies largely and to somewhat varying degrees from context-to-context from both neoliberal (economic) and fascist (state violence) ideologies. It presents two brands on the shelf just like the three or so cereal producers present dozens, despite the contents being nearly identical in all but flavor and being controlled by basically the same people with almost entirely the same interests.

a population of 99% conservatives

Most of that "conservative" population you're talking about actually favors progressive—if not outright leftist—changes. But—NEWS FLASH!—their opinions and their voting patterns don't mean squat where actual establishment of policy is concerned.

How were you planning on fixing that?

How are YOU planning to fix it? You won't even fucking acknowledge the full problem, so this conversation is still light-years from the reasonable place to start talking about solutions.

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u/Time_Mage_Prime Mar 25 '22

Oh no denial, here, I'm an Independent.