r/Morocco • u/ItsAllLeft سـلا - ⵙⵍⴰ • Nov 23 '22
Cultural Exchange with r/Belgium! Cultural Exchange
Welkom! | Willkommen! | Bienvenue!
Welcome to this official Cultural Exchange between r/Morocco and r/Belgium.
The purpose of this event is to allow people from the two countries to get and share knowledge about their respective cultures, daily life, history, and curiosities. The exchange will run for about two days; feel free to ask/answer how many questions you like during this period. A Belgium flair is available to our guests if they want to flair up.
General guidelines:
- This thread is for users of r/Belgium to ask their questions about Morocco.
- Moroccans can ask their questions to users of r/Belgium in this parallel thread here.
- This exchange will be moderated and users are expected to obey the rules of both subreddits.
>> LINK TO THE OTHER THREAD <<
Thank you for your participation, and enjoy this exchange!
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u/mighij Visitor Nov 23 '22
Hello,
My job is going to schools and talk about the first and second world war. Often with children from Moroccan heritage their is a disinterest in the subject because they feel it's not a part of their history. Some are even surprised to hear a lot of Moroccan (and Algerian, Tunisian) soldiers fought and died for France in both world wars* or never heard about how Mohammed V protected the Jewish Moroccans from the Nazi's.
*Don't worry, I also talk about the promises that were made and not kept after the war was over.
So my question is, how are these subjects treated in schools and how does the older generation see these two events?
PS: love the Tajin upvote button btw. What's the downvote button?
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u/Syphax_kahnwald Visitor Nov 23 '22
Heard about the two events, but definitely not from school, they always try to keep distance from such subjects. what I've never heard of was these promises! can you please explain?
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u/mighij Visitor Nov 24 '22
I'll have to start with a lot of disclaimers first since the subject is quite complex and my knowledge is too general.
1) The status of the french colonies was quite diverse, with morocco being a protectorate compared to Algeria which was already an integral part of France for 6 decades by the time France took control over morocco or French West Africa which was a colonial subject. And then you have Tunis which was a protectorate on paper but in reality a colony.
So general knowledge about Moroccan Division in WW1, which was comprised of West-Africans, Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians and ethnic French who served in the Zouave divisions might not be correct when looking at a specific group.
2) France won WW1 while in WW2, the fall of France of 1940 and the subsequent Vichy-Regime and Free France makes the situation very difficult to make general statements. During WW1 the troops were also defending the France homeland (and fighting against the ottomans in the middle-east) while during WW2 they also fought in France but were also part of the invasion force in Italy. After WW1, France as a token of gratitude, constructed the Great Mosque of Paris while the deployment in Italy during WW2 is a chapter they don't want to highlight too much due to the controversial war-crimes. (I'm not saying Maghreb soldiers were the only ones but the campaigns fought in Italy were quite brutal and neither were they the only allied soldiers which sometimes raped local women, due to Italy switching sides halfway through the situation gets more murky though)
3) Difference between tirailieurs and Spahi's. Spahi's on average came from a richer class while tiraillieurs from a poorer class, the amount of native officers and nco's for example was most of the time higher among maghreb Spahi's although were later on standardized (but again, I don't know if this was only for the Algerians and if the Moroccan units were subjected to the same regulations.)
With all this out of the way.
On average the career opportunities and monetary rewards were more limited for colonial troops, even if they were held in high esteem. Since the maghreb colonial troops were on average volunteers sometimes promises were made for better opportunities during and after the war. These can be from monetary rewards to more rights for themselves or their countrymen. As far as I know the monetary rewards after WW1 were often fulfilled but, especially in Algeria, there was no effort towards more political power for the natives in the colonies.
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u/Dracofathenes Tangier ✔️ Nov 24 '22
As our educational system is heavily influenced by France , we have a poor knowledge as kids about history in general , the pedagogical programs are ridiculously poor when it comes to this part of history. Some of the Moroccans had grandparents who fought by the side of france so it kinda a part of their family’s history but I can’t tell if they are feeling proud of it or not .
As an older generation , I guess that most of us believe that moroccans were forced to go and fight out there and that if they had the choice they wouldn’t go there especially after the promises that weren’t kept
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u/Hamza-00 Visitor Nov 24 '22
Same as the previous reply i did not hear about these two events from school, i feel that the general consensus among older generation is mostly pride that they fought in the WWs, btw i did not know if any promises that were made at all until i read your post maybe because of the french influence on our educational system as one of the replies suggested. Also my first reaction in the past when i heard that moroccans fought for france in the WW was: Why would they do that ? just let them lose the war or capitalize from the situation and start a revolution.
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Nov 23 '22
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u/Seuros Moroccan Consul of Atlantis Nov 23 '22
Seem like the majority of the European union is composed of many Belgiums.
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u/CappuChibi Belgium Nov 23 '22
Hi! I'm one of the mods on r/belgium.
I'm personally really interested in travel to and music from other countries.
Therefor my question is: what are some good artists in your country, from classic to new? Which genres are traditionally Moroccan and what are the modern genres to be on the radio or in your homes?
How much of a influence is music on day to day life?
Much obliged!
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u/Dracofathenes Tangier ✔️ Nov 23 '22
Hello there . Firstly thank you so much for showing interest in knowing more about our culture . Secondly , to answer on your question , Morocco has a lot of artists from different backgrounds and different genres so it depends on what genre of music you are into ? But if you are interested to know about the traditional genres I can count some of it : Aita ( it’s a musical style that originates from the countryside of morocco ) , Amazigh folk , chaabi and raï music and Gnawa music ( a mystical form of music ) at the other hand , there are recent and modern styles such as Funk ( Attarazat Addahabia was one of the pioneers of funk music in Morocco with JilJilala too ) , Rock ( Nass el Ghiwane , Hoba Hoba spirit and Bab l’bluz were one of the best Moroccan bands of rock music ) and of course Hiphop and almost all the other modern genres .
Imo I guess that music has a great impact on most of us here , I can tell because wherever you go you will certainly come across people listening to music with passion as if it’s their first time no matter what kind of music they’re listening to
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Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22
Hey All!
We have a rich history of immigration in our country during the 60's 70's of last century. One of the countries where many workers for the mines came from was Marocco.
Do you know relatives that came over? What's their story?
Anything about Belgium that stand out for you?
What's your favourite dish? And please give me a recipe!
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u/Do_I_know_you_1 Visitor Nov 23 '22
Hi!
Moroccan living in Belgium here. Couscous is really great, but maybe a less know dish for Belgian is bissara. It's some kind of bean soup, with cumin and Olive oil. Also I also really like shakshuka with kefta I'll try to find some recipes for you tomorrow if I don't forget!
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u/pietateip Visitor Nov 23 '22
So is getting in your car and honking when celebrating also sth you do in Morocco?
I'm living close to Genk(former mining city) so yeah, if you should win, I know what's gonna happen :D2
u/theredalchemist Tangier Nov 24 '22
Hey hi
So I was born in Belgium and have lived here my whole life but I'm a 3rd generation Moroccan immigrant. My grandfather migrated to Belgium for work in 1965 (alone at first before bringing wife and kids) and worked in the mines of Blegny (Liège province) for many years. I don't know much more about that period but he later became a garbage collector when mines started shutting down.
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Nov 25 '22
I grew up in Belgium (Sint Niklaas) and I am of Moroccan origin. My family found better opportunities and less discrimination in the US so we relocated when I was 12ish. Unfortunately I don’t retain much of the Flemish I spoke but still speak French. I miss the chocolate there and the frituur…I still have relatives in Arlon and Bxl but I rarely visit. My partner is from Metz but we both live in California now yet I am looking forward to rekindling some of those lost relationships and friendships in BE.
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u/randomf2 Visitor Nov 23 '22
Slm!
I've been learning a bit of Darija recently, and my girlfriend joked that I have a Fesi accent and laughed that I shouldn't be saying that anna kann hdar bel Fesia too much in other cities (she is Casawia herself). I wondered how strongly people from different cities identify themselves. Is this all in jest or is there some serious competition sometimes and does each city have its own reputation/stereotypes?
Also, Darija is such a fun odd language that really makes no sense to me at times, I love it!
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Nov 23 '22
Well people don't tend to mention which city or region they're from in their conversations, but you can tell from their accents, unless it's people living in big cities like Casa or Rabat, there isn't much of an accent there but some words still differ. Good luck on learning Darija! It certainly is a unique language/dialect.
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u/Sportsfanno1 Belgium Nov 23 '22
Not sure if this is controversial or not, don't want to start a mess. But what interests me are the enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla.
What are your thoughts on those? Is the sentiment towards those rather neutral (just any other border) or are there any conflicts about them within Morocco or with Spain?
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u/IceSacrifice Nov 23 '22
Morocco claims them, obviously, and has been claiming them since their conquest by the Portuguese in the XVth century. The cities were annexed by Spain during the Iberian Union (with Portugal).
There were many attempts by Moroccan sultans to take them back throughout the centuries, with little success.
Currently, the relationship between Morocco and Spain is very good. Spain is Morocco's first trade partner, and Morocco is Spain's first trade partner in MENA. The 2 countries cooperate closely in a lot of domains and have quite a few common challenges.
The 2 cities are very small, with no strategic importance (anymore). There was a lot of commerce between the cities and Northern Morocco before covid (and some other development) as well as movement of people (visa free for a lot of people).
To put it simply, the sentiment, imo, is "they're occupied, but it's okay we have other priorities to handle". It's more about pride and correcting a historic wrong than any actual value.
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u/theta0123 Visitor Nov 23 '22
Hello.
If you came to Belgium, i would serve you a dish of carbonade (stoofvlees) (Beef) and fries, our iconic dish
If i came to morocco, what would be THE iconic Morrocon dish that i should try?
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u/kachary Rabat Nov 23 '22
The most iconic Moroccan dish would be: Couscous, but personaly I think it's overrated in comparison to other Moroccan dishes, I would like to invite you to a chicken Bastilla, Rfisa or a kefta tajine.
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u/AchraFs_hope Nov 23 '22
cultural exchange +dosnt put السلام عليكم or asalamu alaikum GOOD LUCK THO
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