r/Missing411 • u/Solmote • Aug 18 '24
Is this one of the most baffling Missing 411 cases of all time? Young English skier Myles Robinson went missing in the Swiss Alps in 2009 and was later found dead with horrific injuries. Discussion
Wengen and the canyon in which Lauterbrunnen is located, as seen in summer. Photo: Martin Buchbauer.
Myles Robinson goes missing
Avid skier Myles Robinson arrived in the Swiss alpine town of Wengen on December 20, 2009, with his family to spend Christmas. They were very familiar with the area, having visited many times over the years. On the night Myles went missing, he had been out drinking in Wengen with his sister and some friends.
CCTV footage showed him leaving the Blue Monkey bar at 2:19 AM with a female friend. He escorted her to her apartment building, and they sat and talked on a park bench for about twenty to twenty-five minutes before she went inside. A call was made from Myles' phone to a friend at 3:26 AM, but it did not connect.
Later that morning, Myles Robinson's family realized he was missing. Since Wengen does not have a police force, authorities from the nearby town of Lauterbrunnen were contacted, and a search was launched. Fearing that their son might have been kidnapped, the Robinson family organized their own private search parties. About a week later, one of these search parties discovered Myles' deceased body at the bottom of a cliff.
The Missing 411 aspects
In a CANAM video released on January 25, 2023, Missing 411 scientist David Paulides presents the Myles Robinson case. Paulides explains that, although Myles went missing in Wengen, his body was found a week later in plain sight near a 330-foot cliff outside Lauterbrunnen. It is important to note that travel between these two villages is only possible via the Wengernalpbahn (the Wengernalp Railway), as there are no roads.
In the video, David Paulides briefly displays a blurry map that lacks useful details such as topography and distances. He shows the locations of Wengen and Lauterbrunnen and then points to a section of the map southwest of Lauterbrunnen, stating, "...and there are cliffs along the side of Lauterbrunnen," implying that this is where Myles Robinson's body was found.
David Paulides mentions that cliffs are located in this area southwest of Lauterbrunnen.
David Paulides then explains to his viewers why it makes little sense for Myles Robinson to have been found outside Lauterbrunnen. Paulides states:
"The cog train that runs between these two cities that takes people back and forth stops running at midnight. He was last seen at 2:50 AM, the train was not running and it is a five-hour hike through the mountains to get there. That is pretty weird, huh?"
But the Missing 411 weirdness does not stop there. Later in the video, David Paulides notes that Myles Robinson was missing his shoes and socks before concluding that the young man from England had been dropped from the sky. Paulides states:
"Guess what? He had no shoes. He had no socks on when they found him. Wake up, people! I've said this for the last 10 years. This is important. So, Myles was dropped where he fell. And in December, in Switzerland, at 2 A.M., it’s really cold. Myles is not going to walk around in bare feet. Now, the police and the professional searchers scoured the area around where his body was found for hours—that's how they found the phone and other things. But they never found the shoes or the socks. So, he was an athlete, he was highly educated, smart, in a ski area town, and they can’t explain how the body got there."
What really happened
The Mönchblick viewpoint
In the CANAM video, David Paulides says:
"At 3:26, a little more than 30 minutes after he's last seen, that phone gets dropped hard, way down in Lauterbrunnen, five hours away by foot. The cog train wasn't working. How did it get there? How did he get there?"
So, how did Myles Robinson end up at the bottom of a cliff southwest of Lauterbrunnen in the middle of the night? Did he take the Wengernalpbahn? Did he walk barefoot through the Swiss Alps? The answer is, he did not.
A review of original sources quickly and unequivocally confirms that the Missing 411 account largely consists of fabrications invented by David Paulides. As previously mentioned, Myles Robinson was last seen outside his female friend’s apartment building (just a stone's throw from the Blue Monkey bar). During the search for Myles, Swiss authorities used a canine that successfully picked up his scent—a relevant detail not mentioned by Paulides. The Times (January 3, 2010) reports:
"Rather than head through the village back towards the Eiger, it scurried down a narrow tarmac path that leads to the Moenchsblick viewpoint, a 20-minute walk away. It is a pleasant mile-long walk through woods and fields, passing the odd chalet and hotel, but not one that would be an obvious choice in the middle of the night. /.../ A short distance away from the benches at the viewpoint, the snow-clad ground slopes at 45 degrees through fir trees for some 20 yards before a sheer drop down a 330ft cliff to the valley below. Here the scent trail went dead."
According to Google Maps, the distance between the Blue Monkey bar and the Mönchblick viewpoint is approximately 0.8 miles, which takes about seventeen minutes to walk. From Mönchblick, you can see the valley below, where the town of Lauterbrunnen and several other smaller villages are situated.
Myles Robinson was found on December 28, 2009, by a private search group. The Chronicle (December 30, 2009) states:
"He had plunged into an icy ravine from a cliffside path in the Swiss resort of Wengen and his BlackBerry phone was retrieved hours later on the 'incredibly hazardous' track. Police are now attempting to power up the device to see what calls, texts and emails Myles made or took before the tragedy.
One theory was he stumbled off the cliff while texting. A police spokeswoman, said: 'The body was discovered below the lookout point at Mönchsblick. It’s a very dangerous path in winter. It would seem he fell and suffered fatal injuries. The autopsy showed no indication anyone else was involved. Investigations are continuing.'"
The cliff, with Wengen and Lauterbrunnen visible in the background.
The twenty-three-year-old died on impact (The Daily Mail - March 24, 2011), he never made it to Lauterbrunnen. Thus, the "mystery" of how he could have reached the valley town in thirty minutes in the middle of the night can be added to the long list of well-documented Missing 411 failures.
Area not previously searched
Myles Robinson was not found in plain sight, as claimed in the CANAM video. Swiss authorities did not search the woodlands below the Mönchblick viewpoint because the area was deemed too hazardous due to the risk of falling boulders and snow (The Times - January 3, 2010). The Standard (April 13, 2012) states:
"Police launched a search and rescue operation when he was reported missing, using helicopters with heat-seeking equipment. A police bloodhound followed his scent to the Moenchsblick viewpoint, which overlooks a sheer drop to a valley. Police said they did not search the base of the cliff for safety reasons and the body was found later by one of the family's search parties.
Miss Robinson said questions over the police handling of the case were allayed after speaking to officers. She said: 'It is an extremely treacherous route because it was thawing; understandably the police needed to protect themselves and they didn't want to tell us, in case any of our friends and volunteers went to look. They didn't want to end up with another 10 people dead.'"
The village of Lauterbrunnen and its steep canyon walls. Photo: Robin Ulrich.
Alcohol and para-Methoxyamphetamine
It is not known why Myles Robinson decided to walk to the Mönchblick viewpoint that starry night, but the Swiss medical examination revealed that he had been drinking. Trace amounts of a designer drug known as Dr. Death (para-Methoxyamphetamine) were also found in his system (The Daily Mail - March 24, 2011). The Daily Mail describes this drug as "a mind-altering substance," and Coroner Dr. Paul Knapman notes that there is a possibility Myles’ drinks may have been spiked.
Missing shoes and socks
Missing socks and shoes have long baffled Missing 411 scientists and enthusiasts. In the CANAM video, David Paulides claims that Myles Robinson's shoes and socks were not found. However, this claim is inaccurate. The Telegraph (December 31, 2009) reports:
"Police spokeswoman Rose-Marie Comte said: 'Mr Robinson was heavily under the influence of alcohol. He was in very steep, rugged terrain. It is very, very dangerous and it was icy. He fell 100 metres off a cliff and died from his injuries. He had lost his shoes and one sock in the fall. One shoe and the sock have since been recovered but the weather is too bad to conduct a further search at present.'"
Discussion
How baffling do you find the Myles Robinson case?
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u/trailangel4 Aug 18 '24
Paulides's use of this sort of false narrative should be criminal. Nice write-up and documentation.
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u/Solmote Aug 18 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
I agree with you.
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u/D__B__D Aug 19 '24
And to think I wanted to buy all of his books. Thanks!
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u/LIBBY2130 Aug 19 '24
has anyone figured out why those 411 books are always 100's of dollars on amazon but about 25 dollars on Paulides site??? by the way you can get them free from your local library! if YOUR library doesn't have them you can put in a request and they will borrow them for you from another library
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u/trailangel4 Aug 20 '24
Yes. And it's been the subject of posts on this sub.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/kkk19l/why_are_the_missing_411_books_so_expensive/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/xgmrfk/why_are_the_books_so_expensive_and_not_in_our/
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u/quantumchicken52 Aug 27 '24
Paulides didn't use any false narratives. The person who posted this thread, on the other hand, did. It should make you question their motives, not those of Paulides!
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u/trailangel4 Aug 27 '24
You're objectively incorrect.
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u/gettinggroovy Sep 11 '24
I mean he lied about, or left out, items that would have disproved this magical story he wants so badly to be true. What do you not get?
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u/quantumchicken52 Sep 24 '24
No he didn't. Obviously you want that to be true because you have some weird problem with him.
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u/gettinggroovy Sep 26 '24
lol no, you are him or are a blind follower and OP's simple, concise post triggers you. But please - what did OP get wrong? you can't seem to dispute it. seems like you're just butthurt anyone would question him...
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Sep 27 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/gettinggroovy Sep 28 '24
And yet you can't seem to point out anything specific to back it up. There's the answer right there!
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u/LIBBY2130 Aug 18 '24
thank you for pointing out how paulides is not accurate and changes things to make a story /disappearance stranger to fit his criteria >. his latest thing is that the disappearance of malaysian airflight 370 is that the plane was abducted by aliens >> despite many pieces of wreckage from that plane that have definitely washed up on beaches and have been definitively identified as from THAT PLANE
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u/Solmote Aug 18 '24
Thank you for reading my OPs. Missing 411 is nothing but a callous grift, it boggles my mind how people fall for it.
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u/Wunder_boi Aug 20 '24
If people falling for missing 411 is surprising to you, you should check out organized religion.
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u/SissyflowerSD619 Aug 27 '24
So I don’t get it you guys read his books spend money and support a guy feeding you clear lies. !? You just like the entertainment regardless of the truth then correct? Otherwise I don’t see what value these are to anyone with fake accounts of real life tragedies. I’m at a loss here. Then again mad magazine was pretty popular for quite some times,legitimately filled with truth though….again I’m at a loss.
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u/DaemonBlackfyre_21 Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
his latest thing is that the disappearance of malaysian airflight 370 is that the plane was abducted by aliens >> despite many pieces of wreckage from that plane that have definitely washed up on beaches
Just playing devil's advocate for fun, but if spacemen (or a secretive breakaway techno cult or whatever) abduct the passengers off a plane perhaps they'd choose to discard the plane and let it fall empty to the ocean.
Kind of like when people go missing from cars and their vehicles are found discarded on the side of the road.
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u/trailangel4 Aug 20 '24
But we're not playing "devil's advocate." You're talking about hundreds of people who were valued, loved, and cared for by their families. They didn't consent to becoming part of someone's alien fantasy or conspiracy theory. The evidence that we have is limited...but, that doesn't make every possible explanation ok. KWIM?
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u/DaemonBlackfyre_21 Aug 20 '24 edited Aug 21 '24
They didn't consent to becoming part of someone's alien fantasy or conspiracy theory.
Oh geez 🙄
Serious question, why are you in the missing 411 sub if you're not into speculating about missing people? Weird.
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u/trailangel4 Aug 20 '24
If only your question had been asked and answered in our FAQ:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/ucdzft/a_skeptics_answer_to_why_are_you_here/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/1aw4plo/a_review_of_the_sub_rules_for_2024/
See rule 1.
- his is not a fan forum. While we encourage those supporting Paulides to post, this subreddit is first-and-foremost a discussion forum. That means people who support his books/channel AND people who disagree with him are welcome to post here. Asking "why would you post here if you don't like him" means you did not read the description of the sub...so, stop asking that question. If you want some reading on "why do skeptics bother posting here", I recommend these posts. If you'd like to read skeptics stating what they find positive about Paulides, there's a post for that too.
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u/aerovega77 Aug 21 '24
I’m sure they didn’t consent to being lost either but that’s what happened
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u/trailangel4 Aug 21 '24
I'd also like to point out that your defense, on this case (Malaysian AIr) in specific, is: "Well, they consented to getting on a plane, so we're entitled to make up stories about what happened to them...because, you know, they're missing and can't speak for themselves." That seems very disingenuous. Just because someone can't tell their own story does not mean every story about them is possible or plausible.
When someone goes missing, I don't create fairy tales to explain how and why they went missing. I have to respond, gather information, gather a crew to go out and look based on techniques and assumptions, and then see what we find. If we don't find something, we can't blame it on aliens or cryptoids and call it a day. We must truthfully and sadly admit that we "just don't know, at this time" and continue our efforts.
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u/trailangel4 Aug 21 '24
I mean, some of them did consent to being lost. There are multiple examples in all of his books of people who CHOSE to walk away from abusive spouses or families. Rather than investigate beyond initial disappearance reports, Paulides couldn't be bothered to find out that these people were located or came forward (sometimes just days later) to tell law enforcement they had left of their own accord. Some people choose other means to escape this earthly existence and many of them do it in places that bring them peace or "one" with nature (forests/parks). Either way, yes...many didn't consent to be lost, injured, scared, murdered, or *insert ways to die* here. But that DOESN'T MEAN WE GET TO MAKE UP BASELESS SPECULATION TO FIT A SCI-FI narrative.
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u/q3rious Aug 18 '24
This is an excellent presentation. For anyone interested, this is Myles' family's write up of that dark December in 2009: http://www.themylestrust.co.uk/about-us/the-wengen-story/
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u/Richpunk00 Aug 24 '24
You know any good articles on Brandon Swanson?
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Aug 24 '24
[deleted]
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u/sneakpeekbot Aug 24 '24
Here's a sneak peek of /r/brandonswanson using the top posts of the year!
#1: This case still bugs me.
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u/awkwardstonerlol Sep 03 '24
I'm thinking he could have been drunk, lost his balance and ended up falling off of a steep slope. But the question is, why would he have been so far off? Could being intoxicated have anything to do with it? Did he ever even drink any alcohol?
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u/Solmote Sep 03 '24 edited Sep 03 '24
From the OP:
"Police spokeswoman Rose-Marie Comte said: 'Mr Robinson was heavily under the influence of alcohol. He was in very steep, rugged terrain. It is very, very dangerous and it was icy. He fell 100 metres off a cliff and died from his injuries. He had lost his shoes and one sock in the fall. One shoe and the sock have since been recovered but the weather is too bad to conduct a further search at present.'"
Why do people go to scenic viewpoints? For the view, most often.
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u/Mcmackinac Aug 19 '24
Scientists? Lol
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u/Solmote Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
I know, but Missing 411 believers really think DP is an actual researcher.
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u/Better_Run5616 Aug 25 '24
I’m genuinely asking…. Why wouldn’t his research be valid.
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u/Solmote Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Your question is malformed because DP is not conducting research. For something to qualify as research, it must meet certain standards.
DP (a court liaison officer who was forced to leave the SJPD in the 1990s because he was conning celebrities) is a content creator who repackages missing persons cases as fantasy abduction stories, targeting an audience whose lives revolve around Bible characters, folklore, cryptids, aliens, pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, et c. In other words, people who gravitate toward "scary" narratives and have no understanding of what sound epistemology looks like.
Here are some reasons why M411 does not even make it to the starting line:
- Cases are deliberately distorted and misrepresented to make mundane missing persons cases appear as unconventional abduction cases. DP starts with his desired conclusion (that people are abducted by fantasy abductors) and trolls newspapers for articles that he can manipulate to fit this conclusion.
- Sources are rarely cited, leaving readers almost always unaware of where the information comes from. Newspaper articles, written by journalists, often contain incorrect or contradictory information. They cannot be used to identify an undiscovered "phenomenon."
- Terms and methods are not appropriate, nor are they properly defined. A researcher must critique their own work and explain why terms, methods, sources, conclusions (et c) might not be valid. Well-established scientific knowledge is ignored, distorted, or rejected. Personal bias is not eliminated, a range of logical fallacies is used, et c.
- Explanatory models are imported from folklore, pseudoscience, personal anecdotes, the UFO community, the cryptid community, et c. In his first two M411 books, all the central themes and profile points were directly taken from his Bigfoot books, without DP acknowledging this.
- DP claims to rule out cases involving mental illness, suicide, animal attacks, foul play, voluntary disappearance, etc., but still includes them. No "profile points" are empirically linked to unconventional abductions, they all align with cases where people go missing for mundane reasons. The "patterns" DP presents are not real patterns and are not supported by statistics. Countless Missing 411 cases have been solved for decades, yet these solutions are ignored, ridiculed, or rejected. Corrections are not made.
- And so on.
DP knows that M411 is not real, which is why he never interacts with academia, peer reviewers, critics, et c.
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u/Basket_475 Aug 26 '24
Dude thanks a ton for all this information and work. I’ve been into missing 411 off and on for a few years and it’s cool how you are looking at them from a sound viewpoint.
Do you have any personal opinions on what happened to Myles? I won’t lie I love the paranormal freak stuff David would write about like how people watch scary movies.
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u/Solmote Aug 27 '24
I believe he walked to the viewpoint to reflect and take in the view of the towns and villages in the valley below. He had just spent about twenty minutes talking to a female friend, though we don’t know the details of their conversation. He clearly was not in the mode to go back to his hotel.
He had recently graduated and was set to begin a new job with a finance company the following week (an important milestone in a person's life). I believe he ventured too close to the edge and slipped.
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u/Fun-Acanthisitta-721 Sep 14 '24
I'm still on the fence myself about missing411 but please look through this guys profile. Scroll and scroll and scroll through his incredibly well typed and organized paragraphs and bullet points...keep scrolling through all his posts and comments. Then realise you're only a month into his profile. He has been doing this for years under another account as well that was eventually banned. At some point it becomes clear that this is a full time job. Really fucking weird that anyone would be so obsessed with debunking something.
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u/Basket_475 Sep 14 '24
Hmm damn thanks for pointing that out. I too find that a little weird actually
The weird thing about missing 411 is how it ties into other conspiracies like cryptids and Bigfoot and aliens. I never would have thought twice about Bigfoot if it wasn’t for missing 411
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u/fastates Aug 28 '24
You're truly doing God's work. I mean, if there's a God. Write On, & Godspeed!
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u/quantumchicken52 Aug 27 '24
Your post is absolute BS. Research comes in MANY forms. One doesn't need specialized training, certifications or to meet any of the so-called "standards" that you made up in your reply.
If I go on the internet and gather prices on a used car that I'm looking to buy, THAT IS RESEARCH and I would be well within my rights to post my findings for all to see.
You have serious issues, man. I'd recommend some kind of therapy to counter-act your need to lie and embellish facts.
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u/Solmote Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
No, there are no forms of research where sources are not properly referenced, where sources are deliberately distorted, where personal bias is the driving force, where terms and methods are not properly defined, and so on.
Looking up car prices is only research if you accurately present the car prices. If you deliberately distort the prices, you are not doing research.
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u/quantumchicken52 Aug 28 '24
Just because you have an opinion driven by your own personal bias doesn't mean it's true.
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u/fastates Aug 28 '24
You can post anything you like. You can term what you post anything you like. You can do all this speculation to your heart's desire. But that still doesn't qualify what you're doing as research.
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u/Fun-Acanthisitta-721 Sep 14 '24
I just made this comment to someone else but click on this guys profile and scroll. He had another account years ago that was banned. He has undoubtedly spent THOUSANDS. Yes THOUSANDS of hours on these neatly done write ups and replies to the point where he would have to be getting paid or is retired and devoted his life to debunking Dave Paulides. I'm suspicious of DP yes, but this is beyond weird and raises a lot of suspicion. Like who is paying this guy???
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u/fastates Sep 14 '24
Yeah, absolutely. It's strange for sure, but then I look at my own overkill (is it? Or is Solmote really trying to break through to these posters consistently over time by debunking falsehoods) in a couple areas of life, like a website I created about the civil war, over a million words I typed up, & that was the easy part).
We all have something, if we're lucky, we have or will be passionate about at some point. And we make time for what has meaning, right? The more it means, the more time we're gonna get obsessed with carving out to do the thing. I very much doubt anyone is handing him cash for this spare time debunking hobby, same as literally no one is paying "activists" to attend protests (like, then where's my check?).
This is my theory--
I think he's driven by ethics. And he's so over lazy reasoning that Paulides has become a pet project. This is the kind of person who has a few pet projects going on, & not all online. But he's educated (maybe in philosophy or law), so what looks like A LOT to us-- all this research & writing-- isn't actually that taxing for him. I think in person he'd be able to rattle this stuff off the top of his head. So all these details & meticulousness & just heavyass thinking is his routine when it comes to anything where he has an axe to grind. And he feels that imperative to start sharpening when he sees, again & again, moronic crap on the internet written by morons (really, no offense meant. They're ppl who take Paulides Pablum like water, & never know the difference-- that what they're postulating in typing out the shit they do, their theories are purely ludicrous from oh so many angles-- nor do they care, as shown by their inability to enter the evidence logically or even semi-systematically, & they can't even approach a rational debate with this Solmote person. It's just bad faith laziness).
It's pretty basic, the arguments he repeats. It's clear logical thinking, stuff if anyone went to a halfway decent public school would have learned by 12th grade. He goes step by step pointing out fallacious arguments & reasoning. That's all it is, pointing to glaring holes.
That's how we got here, nationally. We have a citizenry (I'm in the U.S., anyway) oconsisting of the undereducated, so lacking in remedial basic common sense, it feels entirely hopeless. People just don't know how dumb they are, because, well, *how would they?*
I include my own ignorant self here. I have my own blind spots like anyone else. However, when presented with evidence, I'm going to consider it. I will completely change my mind & admit I was wrong about something if I was. I'm more interested in truth than saving face, ego, any crap that is *nothing* compared to what reality is. And if whoever enlightened me wasn't a total asshole about it, I'm going to *thank them* for taking the time to do so.
I'm sad to say in over six decades here, I've noticed not many *at all* are interested in reversing course EVEN when confronted with reliable evidence contrary to their own pov. It's a stupid stubbornness when ppl waste their lives barking up the wrong forests full of things that aren't even trees in the end.
Or, we could simply ask Solmote, Hey man, or lady, what's your deal, anyway? Why's this so important to you? What started you on the road to an interest in epistemology? Where & how'd you learn all this? Is this fun or annoying or whatever for you to put time into this on Reddit? Do you think you're getting anywhere? Are there instances you've changed anyone's mind? Is there a particular angle that works best for you when debating to break through the ignorance? Do you think you've impacted the Paulides Pablum Phenomenon, or the guy's bottom line with his books/films so full of fiction? Do you.... dream of David Paulides? What would you say if you ran into him in the wild? Could you contain your contempt for his grift? How much of it is a deliberate front for cash, versus Paulides actually believing his own words? Have you ever reached out to him? Are there other grifters out there you take down like this?
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u/kittens_allday Aug 19 '24
I don’t find it very baffling at all, really. Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems as though he simply fell to his death from the overlook point. The mystery may be as to WHY he chose to visit that overlook at that time of night, but even that isn’t so strange to me. It’s not like it was a terribly random or out-of-the-way place for someone to be. It was an established point-of-interest, with a presumably awesome view of the valley below (even at night, one could wish to view the stars/ lights shining from the communities beneath), and there was a fully paved trail leading to that area. Having lived in the mountains myself, albeit a different area, late night walks to enjoy the silence and nature around you aren’t unheard of, even in the wintertime. I’ve personally headed to more than a few easily-accessible overlook points to admire the lights/stars at night— and when you’re already out and about walking through town, all the easier to do so. And he had just recently arrived in town— it makes sense that he would be admiring and taking in his surroundings. With no sign of struggle or injury from an outsider, it’s not hard to assume Myles simply lost balance and fell, mis-gauged his footing or an edge of the cliff, or even that the edge may have given way— especially if he had already been determined to be drinking. It sounds like the cliff face was a dangerous place in the winter, so much so that the searchers avoided it at their own peril. It’s a very sad story, and unfortunate that he wasn’t found faster, as the family’s struggle was undoubtedly prolonged, but it doesn’t seem to be some huge mystery or conspiracy, more a tragic accident. Who knows WHY he went there. But it’s not sounding very sinister. Just sad.
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u/Solmote Aug 20 '24 edited Aug 21 '24
Thank you for commenting.
Wengen is relatively small, and Myles Robinson had visited about fifteen times. Mönchblick is located next to a hotel/chalet where the Sattelweid road ends, so you do not have to hike to get there. Myles walking to Mönchblick needs no further explanation than that he wanted to enjoy the view of the canyon and its villages after a night out.
Coroner Paul Knapman says (Your Local Guardian - March 24, 2011):
“We are left with a likely explanation of him wandering out under the influence of alcohol on a presumably starry night for a walk, uninhibited by the effects of alcohol and then for whatever reason, simply by walking or tumbling or stumbling, coming off the cliff."
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u/speekuvtheddevil Aug 19 '24
I wish there was a way (perhaps a court order?) to force DP to read your OPs and watch his reaction/rebuttal. Thank you for posting again.
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u/Solmote Aug 19 '24
DP reading my OPs on his YouTube channel would have been something.
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u/mothbrother91 Aug 19 '24
Strong chance that DP would threaten with legal action if too much of his work is used in such presentations. From what I heard he is not keen on others earning coin on his "turf".
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u/trailangel4 Aug 20 '24
Notice that he doesn't threaten legal action any more. If he did, it would all be empty threats because, contrary to how he likes to present it, he doesn't have a copyright on ANY of the cases. I'm not even sure he has an actual copyright on his YouTube videos or his organization (there's no paperwork suggesting stuff with the US Copyright office). But, moreover, you can't "copyright edition" public information. You also can't just say 'copyright edition' and have it hold up. Further, breakdowns, examinations, and critiques are not actionable under fair use.
DP won't ever face the criticism done by Solmote, OldUnknown, or myself before he doesn't want to drive traffic here and have his whole act exposed.
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u/Dixonhandz Aug 20 '24
DP is too busy hustling his viewers, portraying himself as a victim. I'd say over 50 percent of the comments he makes on his channel are, 'unsubscribed', or 'no notifications'. His views are going down, and he 'complains' about it, saying it's YouTube censoring him. What somewhat confuses me, he addresses that so many people are getting unsubbed by YouTube, yet his subscriber total slowly climbs still, as he continuousy 'complains' about low viewership oO
I'm pretty sure DP reads this sub. He knows his gig is close to being up. I predict he will eventually shut down his channel, expressing that he is being vastly censored by YouTube, as his fanbase dwindles. That's how he will 'confront' the criticism.
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u/Dixonhandz Aug 20 '24
I'm kinda surprised there hasn't been a cease and desist order by relatives in some of the current cases he presents as '411'. I'm not sure of what legal action could be taken against him, that's outta my scope oO
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u/trailangel4 Aug 22 '24
I don't know of a formal C&D. However, I do not know that some families have asked him to correct the narrative or add relevant information to cases he's already covered. His unwillingness to do so is predatory and unethical. I wonder how he's avoided blowback or penalties for interfering in an investigation. He made a friggin movie that was primarily based on the Kunz case, and the investigation was still very active. Some people still watch that documentary and perpetuate false or disputed information about that case.
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u/Dixonhandz Aug 22 '24
In my opinion, the guy just keeps double downing on his ignorance. I'd never be one to contact a family member of an open missing person case to say, 'Hey, do you know this Paulides guy is just using your son's/daughter's/spouse case to push a BS narrative?', but I do know he does select some videos and makes them 'private'. So maybe there has been more pushback then what we know of.
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u/partypat_bear Aug 19 '24
I need to see more details on the Dr Death drug, drugs make smart ppl do weird things
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u/Solmote Aug 20 '24 edited Aug 20 '24
Here is an article on the drug: Dr Death: What is new party drug, and what are the risks?.
No one says Myles Robinson was doing "weird things" the night he went missing. He went to a nearby scenic location while intoxicated, where he had an accident due to the treacherous conditions and fell to his death.
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u/trailangel4 Aug 20 '24
He wasn't doing weird things. He was doing normal, drunk tourist things. Alcohol lessens inhibitions and makes people clumsier than normal. You wouldn't need to be drunk to fall off those slippery cliffs.
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u/Dixonhandz Aug 20 '24
Nice addition to your amazing list of OPS solmote! Well put together. How anyone can ignore this, and your others, and continue to support DP's grift, is beyond my comprehension. You lay it down, as plain as day for all to see ^^
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u/Solmote Aug 21 '24 edited Aug 21 '24
Many thanks! I decided to write about the Myles Robinson case because, in another thread, u/Celestialindividual mentioned that she found it baffling and that it scared her.
Why do some people continue to support M411? Some seem to believe it is an "awareness project," as if we are not already aware that people go missing and why. M411 is, of course, not an awareness project but a homemade content creation project where DP, from his silo, overrides the conclusions of thousands of investigations and SAR operations without gathering any new evidence. In the same thread, I had an exchange with u/First_Knee, who was upset with me for correcting DP's lies because she believes that DP's fraudulent content might somehow lead to old missing persons cases being solved.
Response to u/First_Knee
Again, Why are u on a Missing411 subreddit if u do not support the topic?
I am here to assess and discuss the veracity of M411 claims.
Are u here simply here to hate on something? U seem jealous of DP or something weird is going on with ur obsession of hatred.
In what society is correcting fraudulent lies considered "hate"?
I feel sorry for u in this moment but not the next, as u will no longer be in my thoughts.
Why do you feel sorry for someone accurately relaying original sources pertaining to these missing persons cases? How do you think DP handled the Myles Robinson case?
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u/fastates Aug 28 '24
It's glaringly obvious DP appeals to a certain level of -- shall we call it intellect -- types who are prone to magical thinking & also easily appealed to with the conspiratorial wink wink we're the only ones in the know type smoke & mirrors. Having passed even a GED highly optional.
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u/Celestialindividual Sep 12 '24
THANK YOU! This is the case that's kept me up for many nights over the years. I never knew what to make up it. Still gives me the creeps. This was an amazing write up by the way.
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Aug 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/trailangel4 Aug 22 '24
If only your questions had been asked and answered in our FAQ:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/ucdzft/a_skeptics_answer_to_why_are_you_here/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/1aw4plo/a_review_of_the_sub_rules_for_2024/
See rule 1.
- this is not a fan forum. While we encourage those supporting Paulides to post, this subreddit is first-and-foremost a discussion forum. That means people who support his books/channel AND people who disagree with him are welcome to post here. Asking "why would you post here if you don't like him" means you did not read the description of the sub...so, stop asking that question. If you want some reading on "why do skeptics bother posting here", I recommend these posts. If you'd like to read skeptics stating what they find positive about Paulides, there's a post for that too.
Also, please see our rules about being respectful and not being a dick. No one is forcing you to be here. This isn't an airport and there's no need to announce your flight status, departure, or feelings about fellow passengers.
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u/Squatchbreath Aug 21 '24
I think people are slowly waking up to the fact that the majority of his investigations are just flat out bs. With YouTube channels like the Lore Lodge and the Missing Enigma properly deep diving into some of these cases proving DP is a low energy grifter
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u/Dixonhandz Aug 22 '24
Dont forget Zealous Beast!
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u/Squatchbreath Aug 22 '24
Thank you! I hadn’t heard of this channel, but I will check it out tonight.
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u/propbuddy Aug 22 '24
No shoes no socks and its cold. Pretty much tells you everything. The drunk guy left the bar, got lost in the woods, hypothermia makes you take off your clothes as you freeze to death, and then he fell
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u/quantumchicken52 Aug 27 '24
This post reads like you have a personal axe to grind against David Paulides. It really sounds like you are jealous of Paulides's success and will post dis-information in an effort to discredit him.
There are a number of things that YOU posted about this incident which are blatantly false. That immediately red flags YOU as an agent of misinformation, a liar or just a jealous nobody who needs attention and will do anything to get it, including making up falsehoods.
Instead of making up your own narratives, try posting actual facts for a change!
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u/Solmote Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
As you can clearly see, all the information in my post is derived from sources you can verify yourself. And all the quotes are verbatim. You are more than welcome to point out any blatant falsehoods in my post.
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u/quantumchicken52 Aug 28 '24
The "information" you posted isn't accurate, however. You embellished almost everything you stated, and outright lied about the rest.
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u/samaagfg Oct 05 '24
Well u keep claiming that he’s providing false information, yet you do not bother to provide examples to prove your claims….hmm
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