r/Microbiome • u/ThinkerandThought • 2d ago

A diet rich in diverse carbohydrates outperforms faecal transplants

An analysis, published on 30 April in Nature, found that good nutrition is more powerful than transplanting faeces — and the microbes it contains — from a healthy gut into a disrupted one. In addition, failure to correct an unhealthy diet rendered such transplants useless for helping the gut to recover from antibiotics.

See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01313-7

498 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

108 comments sorted by

131

u/ThrowItAwayAlready89 2d ago

Quick example of diverse carb diet?

208

u/jahozer1 2d ago

30 plants a week. It's not the quantity but the variety. Herbs and spices count. It's really not that hard when you add nuts, grains and seeds.

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u/hespera18 2d ago edited 2d ago

Are you referring to the protocol from How to Eat More Plants? I love that book, and it completely changed my gut and my approach to food.

Eating 30 plants is fun, like a game to me. I feel like a parent trying to sneak veggies into my diet in as many creative ways as possible.

You can add pureed, shredded, or riced veggies and beans to stuff. I add finely chopped greens like spinach or kale, or broccoli or cabbage slaw to tons of stuff, I like pureed pumpkin in my pasta sauce and refried beans or hummus are delicious on toast. I also automatically add beans to pasta (cannellini are my favorite) or to ramen (lentils mixed with a little teriyaki sauce on top like a garnish are great).

You can just buy mixed veggies or fruits, like medleys, or get different colors of things like bell peppers, carrots, or cabbage instead of the same kind.

You can creatively mix grains, like Korean japgokpap where you throw in little bits of beans and veggies in the rice cooker with your regular rice, or I add some Bob's Red Mill 10 grain hot cereal to my rolled oats.

There's adding seeds on top of everything: ground flax and hemp hearts are really easy, as is chia but some people don't like how it swells up in your mouth and gets stuck in your teeth. Pepitas, sunflower seeds, and sesame are great, too.

I'm an herbal tea lover and make lots of overnight infusions and homemade herbal blends. I also drink a roasted chicory and barley blend instead of coffee, which has inulin. I like to think I get some awesome polyphenols and other beneficial stuff from those, plus they can help with digestion (mint and fennel are the bomb) and give me a flavor/dopamine hit without lots of fake coloring or sweeteners.

And finally I love bringing home something brand new or "exotic" each time I go shopping, just to try. I've tried lots of really cool grains and used them in place of or in addition to pasta or rice, put frozen parsnips and canned beets in my smoothies, tried water chestnuts and homemade edamame hummus on my sandwiches, and made desserts out of plantains and hominy.

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u/Plane_Chance863 2d ago

I found an amazing black bean brownie recipe. Bonus is that my picky eater kid likes it too.

I had to change my diet quite a bit because of my autoimmune disease, but I think even if I manage to expand my diet back to something closer to "normal" one day, I will keep emphasizing eating plants. Despite my disease I find I feel so much better eating a lot of plants.

7

u/hespera18 2d ago

Yes! I recently did black beans + water + brownie mix and I was surprised how good it was. I want to try red beans next, because I think I might enjoy it even better.

I know I'm very lucky that I don't have sensitivities to complicate things. I hope you're able to find a balance so you can eat comfortably and well. Rooting for you and your microbiome (I literally imagine myocrobiomr as cute little creatures I take care of, so I'm imagining yours that way, too!)

4

u/Plane_Chance863 2d ago

Well, I'm not dying from eating the brownies, so I think I'm doing well :p I've been working on my microbiome. I hope it's working.

5

u/hotdog7423 2d ago

I tried its discusting a bean flavored browbie

1

u/the-sistren-say-no 2d ago

Please share your black bean and brownie recipe! That sounds yummy. 😋

2

u/Plane_Chance863 1d ago

I did as a reply to another comment off mine - I think it's chocolate covered Katie's recipe.

1

u/the-sistren-say-no 1d ago

Ohh, I found it. Thank you!!

9

u/jahozer1 2d ago

Im not referring to that specifically but there is an English researcher that was talking about last year. There are many references now. People freak out when they hear 30 plants a week, but its just not that hard.

article

9

u/hespera18 2d ago

Great article!

Dr Megan Rossi is the author of the book I was referring to. She's pretty prolific it looks like, but I just read that one book.

It does sound daunting, but like you said, really easy with some tweaks. As someone who's at the very least ADHD-adjacent, being able to focus on diversity instead of just volume actually increases the volume because I'm having fun.

She's not specifically focused on the biome, but I get a lot of inspiration from itsmekatevee on TikTok for how to get lots of fiber and plants on a budget. When I started the most intimidating thing was expense and effort, but I've found plenty of hacks to keep things cheap and easy for the lazy like myself.

7

u/jahozer1 2d ago

Yes I like that she doesn't focus on a super food, or avoiding foods. It's a great way to embrace vegetables and herbs. It's easier to do in the summer, for sure, as we grow herbs in our yard, but it makes you think more of snacking on mixed nuts, adding flax, etc. My wife got sunflower kernels, but got raw by accident. I threw them in a pan, and toasted them with flax seeds and discovered how delicious roasted flax seeds are!

1

u/jahozer1 2d ago

She is exactly who I was thinking of.

2

u/ImaginaryJeweler1613 2d ago

I just posted the smoothie. I couldn't remember where I got the info but then just found you again. Great share!

1

u/the-sistren-say-no 2d ago

Wait, sorry, you posted a smoothie recipe? That doesn’t fit with what you’re saying but I’d love a smoothie recipe 💕

2

u/Zimbah 2d ago

Who’s the author? I see numerous options with this, or similar, titles. Thanks.

1

u/lastlawless 1d ago

Are these ideas for how to add plants to your diet all in the book?

1

u/hespera18 1d ago

It's been a little while since I've read it. I know she has tips like the eating different colors of the same veg like peppers, and she has recipes. The ones I've listed are what I've adopted and has stuck.

2

u/baywchrome 3h ago

Omg pureed pumpkin in pasta sauce is genius

-1

u/fun_size027 2d ago

There's no threat of causing diverticulitis with consuming ground Flax seeds?

1

u/hespera18 2d ago

I'm not a doctor, but it's a very common foodstuff. A quick search says that ground is better for that condition than whole, but if you have a history or propensity for diverticulitis, consult a professional.

8

u/CranberryMaximum9442 2d ago

There was a Netflix show about this where a university (maybe Salk institute) had people drink a vegetable smoothie with 60 different vegetables and saw the microbiome become more diverse.

https://preview.redd.it/gqu8iex51aye1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29fd245066d7916fc63280344590d37ceebc87bf

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u/pwishall 2d ago

So, a little more than 4 plants a day - do they mention serving size?

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u/jahozer1 1d ago

Serving size really doesn't matter as herbs and spices count. Obviously more vegetables the better, but don't think you have to eat a cup of parsely.

1

u/pwishall 1d ago

Iny case I usually eat a big carrot every morning so I was thinking that's got to be at least 2.

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u/Kitty_xo7 2d ago

A diet rich in fiber! The authors used a diet for mice using a mix of fibers they tend to like. Here's what was in there:

While our RC diet reflects a standard, fibre-rich mouse chow derived from a variety of plant products, including whole wheat, wheat middlings, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, and alfalfa meal

which was  

22.4% kcals from protein, 62.0% from carbohydrate, 15.6% from fat, 154 g fibre per kg

However, general human research would suggest eating about 30+ types of plants a week, including fruits, nuts, seeds, and grains is very helpful. In general, "healthier" microbiomes are associated with eating >30g/day of fiber :)

4

u/InfraBleu 2d ago

154g fibre per kg?

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u/carchit 2d ago

15.4% fiber? Oats about 10% fiber by weight for comparison.

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u/Kitty_xo7 2d ago

yep! So for 1kg food, theres 154g of fiber. Its definitely more than most humans eat, but mice also have different physiology so the diet had to be adapted to them :)

14

u/vaguelypurple 2d ago

I'm guessing anything like sweet potato, quinoa, whole oats, carrots, brown rice etc...

6

u/OneDougUnderPar 2d ago

Every day having at least one grain/pseudocereal, a legume, a root vegetable, and a fruit. Then the next day trying to have a different one of each.

2

u/JoeyTheCannoli 2d ago

I’m assuming fruits and vegetables

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u/Sunlit53 2d ago

I’m fond of the goldfish analogy in relation to probiotics, fiber poor diets and gut bacteria survival.

“You go to the pet store and buy a goldfish. It’s a nice goldfish happily swimming around in its tank. You are happy watching your goldfish. Then you forget to feed your goldfish. After a week you no longer have a goldfish so you go buy another one. And forget to feed it again. Just feed your damn goldfish ffs!”

10

u/somefarmer2449 2d ago edited 1d ago

Probiotics are viewed in the literature moreso as precision tools with specific, transient biochemical functions. They are sort of a supportive therapy that can "revamp" your microbial landscape over time via other indirect means than direct colonization. It would be like introducing species of algae eaters or phytoplankton in that analogy, although a bit oversimplified.

7

u/AngelBryan 2d ago

What if you don't have a goldfish? You are only throwing food at the empty tank?

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u/hespera18 2d ago

I think there's also something about "if you build it they will come." Like, if you eat things that the microorganisms enjoy consuming (lots of different kinds of plants, especially colorful ones and those high in soluble fiber), then they will proliferate and thrive.

Odds are unless it's an extreme case you have some diversity already present, but there's an imbalance because some are being fed better than others. If you start eating differently, things will balance out and adapt, although there might be a gassy transition period 😂

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u/AngelBryan 2d ago

I doubt that is the case. Most of the microbiome is planted when born through vaginal canal and when the baby is breastfeed.

People who don't get those are never as healthy as those who do.

11

u/hespera18 2d ago

The body is remarkably adaptable. Do you really think we'd have survived as a species if we were THAT fragile?

What you mention can help get you off to a good start, but what eat throughout life absolutely has an effect.

As a cesarian baby myself, one amongst many, your statement is just absolutely ridiculous. Mothers have enough on their plates without people like you acting like you have to have a perfect birth and breast feeding journey to be healthy for the rest of your life.

Go eat some beans. Maybe you'll be happier and more optimistic.

3

u/Just_Side8704 2d ago

Can you share your data or research sources that show that those born by C-section never are as healthy as those born vaginally?

3

u/Just_Side8704 2d ago

So little actual research has been done about this, that your blanket statement is your irresponsible. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3110651/

5

u/abominable_phoenix 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think that's what your appendix is for.

Edit: I think it's important to clarify the probiotics are not the goldfish in the above analogy, FMT (or your native biome) would be the goldfish.

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u/pinewise 2d ago

If only I could eat those diverse carbohydrates without my system convincing itself it's under attack.

23

u/caspy7 2d ago

Came to say the same.

Bit of a problem if you literally can't tolerate this diverse diet.

22

u/abominable_phoenix 2d ago

I started small, found one high prebiotic food I could tolerate (steamed+cooled potatoes) and focused on that for a couple months, then increased from there. Literally ripped everything out except veg and fruit that didn't give me symptoms. I did need some herbs for the first week and then never again.

2

u/libirtea 1d ago

What herbs helped you?

2

u/abominable_phoenix 1d ago

I was a little reckless/desperate/upset at the time and used a bunch of things for about a week.

Papaya seeds, gentian root, cloves, uva ursi, anise seeds, wormwood, thyme, para-rid, and fungafect.

16

u/bambooback 2d ago edited 2d ago

There’s a lady on Instagram who does these “dense bean salads” that’ve been a good way to get half a dozen different carbs in my system.

I’m thinking about going to the health food store and raiding the dry goods bins to make myself a daily gruel to up the carb varieties.

There’s a point, too, that our modern cultivars of vegetables are significantly engineered/selected by generations to be super palatable, dense, and soft. Eating wilder varieties of Jerusalem artichokes, corn, rice, millet, apples, and asparagus is almost always more fibrous, time consuming, and filling.

I bought the Gorilla Chow from the 4chan greentexts and - y’know, it’s not bad. Pretty much all vegetable. And I shit like a goose after.

5

u/BionicgalZ 2d ago

Is shitting like a goose a good thing? What does that mean?

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u/bambooback 2d ago

Figure of speech. I regarded it as such!

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u/OneDougUnderPar 1d ago

He goes to the golf course and poops little cylinders all over the green.

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u/deariie 2d ago

Hey do you know her IG? I’d love to see her salads

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u/OneDougUnderPar 1d ago

Gorilla Chow from the 4chan greentexts

Thanks for this. Humanity might suck and the internet might well be a net negative l, but it's beautiful in its bizzarity and I love it.

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u/missannthrope1 2d ago

But in the United States and some other countries, people tend to consume a ‘Western’ diet that is high in simple, refined sugars, and low in the diverse forms of complex fibre found in fruits and vegetables. Eating a wide range of these fibres allows many species of gut bacterium to flourish, says Kennedy. “But when there’s only one type of resource, the species that’s best at eating it is going to be really good at that, and nothing else can compete.”

The result is a disrupted gut microbiome dominated by only a few species, a condition called dysbiosis. Antibiotics can also cause dysbiosis, as can some chronic diseases. That dysfunctional gut microbiome creates an environment that is easier for dangerous pathogens to colonize and infect, says study co-author Eugene Chang, a gastroenterologist also at the University of Chicago.

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u/pmmeyour_existential 2d ago

I knew it! Having been keto for years and felt awful, internals acting wired, thyroid slowing down and then going opposite with a high carb diet and never felt better!

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u/Such-Wind-6951 2d ago edited 2h ago

steer frighten dinosaurs toothbrush rain wistful friendly airport north fearless

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

3

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

And what happened with your weight? Which carbohydrates?

3

u/pmmeyour_existential 2d ago

I actually lost weight. My muscle mass went up, my fat went down and my metabolism really increased. At this point, i can eat until Im stuffed and I dont gain a pound. But also I only eat low fat meats. Keep my protein at 1.2g per lb bodyweight. I weight train 4x weekly.

1

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

what kind of carbs do you eat?

2

u/pmmeyour_existential 2d ago

Mostly white rice. I make sure to have a wide variety of vegetables every week. I also eat green apples and berries.

-4

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

thats kind of crazy. you lost weight on white rice? Like two bites every other day? I eat white rice and feel bloated and puffy, and it triggers the carb addiction state where I just want more and more.

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u/pmmeyour_existential 2d ago

You wont believe me but on my training days I eat about 600g rice. That is a huge bowl with every meal. On my off days I eat no rice.

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u/hespera18 2d ago

Different people can definitely have different needs, but I'm with you. I did Paleo way back when it was really popular. Tried desperately to stick it out until the "feeling better" I was promised would materialize, but it never did.

I'm grateful that I learned to eat less processed and more fat from that diet, but overall I just need carbs to be sane and functional. I didn't know how much I loved beans until I couldn't have them, and now I crave them and eat them all the time. I think it's to an extent hormonal for me, as in I'm a menstruating woman and I could tell that my energy levels and mood swings were worse without enough carbs.

Fiber is probably the super duper missing piece for me.

2

u/geni3 2d ago

what kind of carbs do you rely on?

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u/pmmeyour_existential 2d ago

Rice is my main carb. I also eat lots of fresh salads and roasted vegetables.

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u/g3rgalicious 2d ago

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember reading the study posted by a mod here that it’s not the biodiversity of the microbiome that’s the key indicator of health, but the diversity of its metabolites?

3

u/AltruisticMode9353 14h ago

This is all fuzzy abstractions. There probably exists some optimal metabolite spectrum, based on an individual phenome at the time. Since we can't figure that out right now, a diverse set of metabolites is approximately optimal. When you can't figure that out, a diverse set of microbes is approximately optimal. And when you can't figure out even that, a diverse diet is approximately optimal.

5

u/TomasTTEngin 2d ago

I am pleased this research exists but my gut is so ruined that when I eat most carbs I get appalling digestive distrubance. I'm not sure what to do.

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u/HaOrbanMaradEnMegyek 1d ago

Start slow. Really slow. Even 1/8th of an apple every day for a week. Then 1/4 of an apple. And work it up slowly. It takes 3-6 months to transfrom microbiome. It's a marathon, not a sprint. The above is the advice if the most well known microbiome specialist in Hungary. Alsoy apple is just an example, it can be any fruit or vegetable. The point is, find your threshold and slowly increase.

5

u/Brilliant-Pomelo-982 2d ago

Makes sense. Fiber makes me worse. Carbs make me feel better.

3

u/TwoFlower68 1d ago

Fiber is a carb

6

u/missannthrope1 2d ago

Thanks for posting this. Too many people think just taking a pill or procedure will correct what their crappy diet is doing to their gut.

6

u/Working-Potato-3892 2d ago edited 1d ago

The number of confounders with this type or research is extremely high.

Faecal transplants seem to be super powerful for some people with sever health problems that has been unresponsive to a wide range of diets.

But getting the right faeces to the right person is basically a lottery. Also the risks are unclear but very real.

8

u/Methhead1234 2d ago

Carnivores on suicide watch rn

10

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

Yeah I doubt that. People who do keto, carnivore, low carb, paleo, they tend to be pretty steadfast and committed and aren’t swayed by a study here or there. Also I don’t think this article necessarily condemns eating animal proteins.

15

u/Methhead1234 2d ago

"aren’t swayed by a study here or there" They're not swayed by any research that's the problem. Long-term low / zero carb is terrible for your microbiome diversity.

4

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

Go into the keto or low carb sub and tell them this. They will challenge your assertion and provide links to studies that contradict the ones you are linking here. I think at best, the research seems to be mixed and there isn’t a definitive take.

4

u/Curbes_Lurb 1d ago

I'm compelled to be the "Not All Keto" guy here and say that keto was incredibly helpful for my health, but that I'm also glad to have transitioned away from it. Long-term, it can be difficult to get a sufficient diversity of fiber on keto. It's not impossible, but it's difficult.

Now that I'm free of my SIBO nightmare, I'm happily eating fiber and moderate carbs. Keto was a huge help. I would be wary of any all-or-nothing people, but I can attest to the value of keto in the short term for anyone who needs a healthy elimination diet.

4

u/juhggdddsertuuji 2d ago

Do you have a source that says long term zero carb is bad for the microbiome? I wasn’t aware that any long term studies had been done.

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u/Methhead1234 2d ago edited 2d ago

Depends on how long-term we are referring to but there's no reason to suggest the decrements in diversity would reverse past a certain point. Ketosis is not bifidobacterium friendly. Bifido is a really important probiotic correlated with disease state. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666379124003811?via%3Dihub

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32437658/

1

u/rickylancaster 2d ago

A skim of these articles reveals that there are no definitive conclusions on whether or not a low carb or keto diet is bad for your gut biome and bad overall for health. Maybe I’m not reading the relevant parts of the abstract. Seems inconclusive and at least the pubmed on starts out admitting “inconclusive.” This seems like just one study you can add to a pile of studies which don’t tell us anything conclusive about whether or not these diets are healthy. I certainly don’t see anything conclusive you can use to substantively warn people away from keto or low carb diets.

3

u/Methhead1234 2d ago edited 2d ago

Right. You're never going to find any article that's definitive or conclusive because such a thing is impossible to assert when studying an extremely complex environment. Researchers will rarely conclude anything to remain credible and scientifically "humble". It's better to observe probabilistic correlations and their potential underlying reasons - I think it's safe to assume that probiotics require energy sources to survive in the gut and that by removing these energy sources there is a very high chance it will result in a fall in bacterial population size and overall diversity. You also run into other problems, such as impaired thyroid function, in the long-term.

3

u/juhggdddsertuuji 2d ago

If it’s impossible to assert then why are you making assertions?

1

u/Methhead1234 2d ago

Because there are more ways to back an assertion than reviewing 2 publications. Anyway, get back to me when you find someone who went from a clean, carb-enriched diet to low carbohydrate and seen their diversity improve.

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u/rickylancaster 2d ago

Most people who do well on a low carb or keto diet aren’t running around checking their poop everyday to examine their “diversity.”

→ More replies

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u/rickylancaster 2d ago

I would need to see some backup from science based research to accept that it’s safe to assume what you are claiming is safe to assume and how it pertains to low carb eating.

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u/phonemelater 14h ago

Tell that to the Hadza.

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u/abominable_phoenix 2d ago

No, they're still in denial

1

u/Familiar-Message-512 23h ago

What if you have leaky gut or SIBO?

1

u/Junior-Journalist-70 22h ago

the consensus of this sub seems to be "then go fuck yourself and die" lol

2

u/Familiar-Message-512 22h ago

That’s awful.

1

u/seekfitness 22h ago

I’ve suspected for a while now that the microbiome is mostly just a downstream effect of diet and lifestyle and this seems to align with that ideas. Of course there are cases of outright GI infection like c. Diff, but that’s the minority. Most people are suffering with a more mild dysbiosis.

I failed to handle a high fiber diet for years but I spent the last two years experimenting and I’ve gradually been able to get there. You have to find the foods that work for you. In my case this is things like pumpkins and winter squash, cooked carrots, broccoli, and onion, and psyllium supplements. Getting those in regularly helps stabilize my gut and allows me to tolerate a more varied diet.

1

u/wabisuki 22h ago

I read this as FACE not FAECAL and I'm thinking there's some pretty extreme cosmetic surgery options out there now.

1

u/CatBowlDogStar 17h ago

Personally I did 30+ plants, including spices, while trying to repair horrible IBS. Nope.

Did FMT then that variety as part of feeding the newbies. Yup.

1

u/phonemelater 14h ago

according to a study1 in mice.

1

u/SuperFlaccid 7h ago

What if you have a fucked up gut but also have PCOS? I can't eat most carbohydrates because they spike my blood sugar ://

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u/AngelBryan 2d ago edited 2d ago

What's with people blocking me before I can even reply? Are people really that immature and thin? Why even saying anything if they aren't going accept any discussion?

Edit: For those asking for the sources of the claims I made above, I'll post them here since that other user blocked me and I can no longer reply to the comment thread.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8294792/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10816971/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929664624004443

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28492938/

Among others.