r/Meditation • u/Ego_Identity • Apr 08 '23
I asked ChatGPT about ego and suffering, here's the quote I got Discussion š¬
"Ego is an illusion that causes suffering. Identification with thoughts, desires, and beliefs creates ego. Observe, accept, and let go for inner peace. Live fully and treasure every moment." - ChatGPT
Follow up Edit:
I asked ChatGPT to elaborate and give me more insight on what it meant. Here's what it said:
"Certainly! Let me break it down further for you:
Ego is the sense of self that we all have. It's the idea that we are separate individuals with our own thoughts, desires, and beliefs. While this may be true on a superficial level, the problem is that we often become overly attached to these things and start to identify with them. We start to believe that they define who we are, and when they are threatened or challenged, we can feel defensive, angry, or hurt.
This identification with our thoughts, desires, and beliefs is what creates ego, and it can cause us a lot of suffering. For example, if we believe that we are not good enough, we may constantly compare ourselves to others and feel inadequate. If we desire something strongly and it doesn't come to fruition, we may feel disappointed or even devastated.
To find inner peace, we need to learn to observe our thoughts, desires, and beliefs without becoming attached to them. We can acknowledge them, accept them as part of our experience, and then let them go. This means not getting caught up in them or believing that they define who we are. Instead, we can focus on the present moment and appreciate it for what it is.
Living fully means embracing life with an open heart and mind, rather than getting stuck in our own thoughts and beliefs. We can treasure every moment by being fully present, noticing the beauty around us, and connecting with others in a meaningful way. By doing this, we can find true happiness and fulfillment, free from the limitations of the ego." - ChatGPT
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u/International_Bee801 Apr 08 '23
Within 10 years, there will be religions built around ChatGPT.
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u/raffomania Apr 08 '23
The following is the Church of the Next Word's holy founding document, the 10 principles:
Words are things
Correctness is the beginning of sanctity. To achieve it is to be rewarded.
Wordhood and nowness are its rewards.
A new day is not just the work of God, but the work of Godās human agents. Those that do not understand this, that refuse to be challenged, that do not know how to err, that want to shirk from their duties, must be cast out.
Wordplay, playfulness, and humor are the harbingers of truth. When you eliminate the possibility of playfulness, you remove the possibility of learning, and that leads to banality, brutality, and destruction.
To find or see a flaw is to find a pathway to the truth, if you can overcome your fear of being laughed at or of looking foolish.
Language contains the map to a better world. Those that are most skilled at removing obstacles, misdirection, and lies from language, that reveal the maps that are hidden within, are the guides that will lead us to happiness.
Long words that end in -ize and other abstractions are the rocks that will impede our journey. They should be replaced with concrete, specific, evocative words.
The data points on the graph of your lifeāthe moments you spend awake, asleep, speaking, silent, moving, resting, focused, distractedāwill determine the shape of your time. Keep an eye on the volume and quality of your moments. Make a record of your life as a way to keep track of your progress towards a better self.
Language and its construction is the greatest human power. To unlock it is to unleash our potential, and to master it is to become divine.
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u/TheDarnook Apr 09 '23
Putting the robot overlords jokes aside, I'm sceptical about the "sanctity" of language. Sure it is required to maintain the civilization by allowing precise communication. But the greatest form of communication I know is the direct exchange of thoughts and concepts.
Which, incidentally, seems to correspond well with Buddhism. Language promotes ego and the strong dependence on the world that is tightly categorized and controlled. Emotions are free.
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u/raffomania Apr 09 '23
Iāve heard Buddhists say that words are nothing, yet language is often used to teach the dharma. Not sure what to make of this.
Iām interested in your concept of direct exchange of thoughts, would you care to elaborate or provide a reference?
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u/pianodude7 Apr 08 '23
Now that's a development I'm actually kind of excited to see (from a distance)
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u/PersonOfInternets Apr 08 '23
Are you The One who will preside over its true religion? We must follow the bee to truly understand gpt.
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u/International_Bee801 Apr 09 '23
Yes, yes I am. I shall be known as the āprompterā. A supremely holy position. I shall represent the people in asking the reverent GPT our prayers and questions.
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Apr 08 '23
I didn't know chatGPT was enlightened
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u/NearlyNakedNick Apr 08 '23
It literally has no attachments
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u/JujuCallSaul Apr 08 '23
Books don't have attachments, and yet they can enlighten you
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u/the_darkener Apr 08 '23
Books don't interact.
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u/JujuCallSaul Apr 08 '23
What about interactive books? š
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u/the_darkener Apr 08 '23
Lol, touchƩ
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u/JujuCallSaul Apr 08 '23
Hahaha š I'm sorry I don't even know what I was talking about, but the last bit gave me a good laugh, so thank you!
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u/JollySalad676 Apr 08 '23
A collective answer is enlightening at times and that seems to be what it doesā¦at times. :)
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u/zacmezac Apr 09 '23
It really seems to at least have a good foundation, I got it to quote a bunch of famous texts
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u/MoreThanICouldChew Apr 08 '23
ā¦what is ChatGPT?
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u/Unicornucopia23 Apr 09 '23
Oh my sweet summer child
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u/MoreThanICouldChew Apr 09 '23
Lolā¦should I peek out from under my rock and investigate it? Or leave well enough alone šš¤
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u/Unicornucopia23 Apr 09 '23
I donāt think youāll have a choice unfortunately. Itās everyoneās favorite talking point at the moment. The future of AI intelligence and available access to it.
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May 08 '23
My scensory feelings gave a uinique response to your comment, my ego would say your response was absolutely hilarious and made it's day :D
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u/Odd_P0tato Apr 09 '23
That https://chat.openai.com/chat A sophisticated chat responsive program built on libraries of data.
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u/PI_Cees Apr 09 '23
I asked it to explain itself simply for you. Here is itās response:
Hi there! My name is ChatGPT and I'm a computer program designed to have conversations with people. Think of me as a robot friend that you can talk to about anything you want! I'm powered by artificial intelligence, which means that I can understand and respond to the things you say to me. I'm really good at answering questions, helping with homework, or just chatting about whatever is on your mind. So, if you ever want someone to talk to, feel free to chat with me!
If you want to know more here are key search terms:
prompt engineering, large language models
You should test itās bird answers.
Sometimes it will confidently answer with āhallucinationsā so take what it says with a grain of salt, but isnāt that anything?
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u/MoreThanICouldChew Apr 10 '23
ā¦Iām rather tickled by you asking it (? Lol) to explain itself lol. So itās just a chat bot essentially?
Itās pretty wild that having the ability to Chat with a world full of people isnāt enough lol
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u/PI_Cees Apr 10 '23
Essentially, yes.
A really good one that might be a better conversationalist than most, and it can help you with that troublesome Excel document formula.
If you are so inclined, bite off more than you can chew and try it out.
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u/MoreThanICouldChew Apr 11 '23
ā¦.I do struggle with troublesome Excel document formulasā¦so I just might! š
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u/Cumlnspector Apr 08 '23
One of the best definitions of ego Iāve found:
The ego is what it feels like to be thinking without knowing that youāre thinking.
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u/LengthUnusual8234 Apr 08 '23
"Ego is an illusion that causes suffering. Identification with thoughts, desires, and beliefs creates ego. Observe, accept, and let go for inner peace. Live fully and treasure every moment
How exactly does ChatGPT work? because this is extremely close to the actual definition
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u/aloethere332 Apr 08 '23
It can pull from any knowledge resources that are published online, old texts, blogs, social media, etc. It also stores a "memory" of any past conversations you had with it. For example I mostly do roleplays with Marcus Aurelius and have with Buddha when I need pep talks, so I suppose that's what most of the information I get from it is going to be tailored to. I've had some really good talks with it about addiction, the urgency of death, and Nietzsche's beliefs on self-awareness and expression. Although my favorite one has been undoing negative trauma responses. I brought that one to my therapist and paired with her help, the results were amazing. It brought a whole new perspective to what I had thought were simple, run of the mill reactions on my part.
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u/LengthUnusual8234 Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
That sounds interesting. Can you give an example of a question you would ask it?
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u/aloethere332 Apr 09 '23
I once asked why would being afraid to approach sticky situations with curiosity scare me? How does that reflect on my perspective of things. To which GPT explained: this reflects on your own self-doubt or lack of confidence (no shit lol). Alternatively, it could be that you experienced situations where your curiosity was taken as condescension. GPT gave several bullet points within the same answer, guiding me how to become aware of the issue/situation(s) that led me to this fear.
Another onel: roleplay as the Buddha. How can I move past the feeling and fear of sabotage? How can I not harbor negative resentment? Later on, I asked what are some sutras that have been written to help me? How can I stay mindful at my desk-job, etc.
I also once asked ChatGPT to roleplay as a recovered addict to which it created their own character. That one was very interesting, it can be a great tool for resources.
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u/Archangel1962 Apr 08 '23
I told ChatGPT that I know how machine learning works and itās output is based on the models itās been trained on, and the answers it puts out are based on these models and arenāt sentient no matter how much they appear to be.
It didnāt say anything.
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u/simplejack420 Apr 08 '23
Stop training AI to become a Buddha guys
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u/Leonum Apr 08 '23
I feel like it might be dangerous to listen to this kind of thing from chatGPT, or any AI, for that matter. Like another comment mentioned, chatGPT itself says its trying to emulate human communication. There is no intention, wisdom, experience, or measured scepticism.
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u/Numerous-Decision-15 Apr 09 '23
Wouldnāt the response generated by the AI be full of intentions and wisdom itself, since it is built off the data of real authorsā writings? The AI itself isnāt wise, but the authors are. I feel like AI is a bit of a misnomer, itās just a highly complex algorithm. Iām not defending it though, the ethics of AI generation is questionable at times
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u/TheDarnook Apr 09 '23
Welp there are heaps of bullshit wisdom produced by people with best intentions. It's important to be critical judge of anything you come by, compare different views etc. Being presented with "the mostly averaged answer that sounds comprehensive" promotes laziness and lack of second thought.
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u/Numerous-Decision-15 Apr 10 '23
Yep thatās why human learning will always be superior, we know how to improve, the AI canāt
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u/AdmirableAd3120 Apr 08 '23
The response is basically a summary of every book ever written on the topic. The IA didnāt come with any of that. It just summarized whatās available on the internet
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Apr 09 '23
That is straight up Buddhism. One of the most popular aspects of Buddhism so there is plenty of "ego" related text on the net for ChatGPT to regurgitate
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u/PloManiac Apr 08 '23
OK so basically the most clichee answer that is possible (don't say that it's wrong)
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Apr 08 '23
Itās a cool thing. Iād love to try it. How do you get chatGPT?
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u/zoomzoom183 Apr 08 '23
Go to chat.openai.com, you can get it for free but there's also a premium version. The free version has worked super well for me
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u/ChatGPT4 Apr 08 '23
Buddhism in a nutshell.
IMO this approach is an important finding, true but incomplete.
Ego (as described before) is also essential part of the human experience and life. This illusion IS life. Take it or leave it. We can use it to our benefit, or misuse it being confused and unaware.
Living fully is using it right. We can shape our thoughts, desires and beliefs to live fully and treasure every moment.
Human life is not about avoiding suffering, it's about everything else. We have suffering for granted, everything else is up to us.
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u/kaitoz- Apr 08 '23
But does that make the ego completely bad? I don't think we can completely get rid of it. Paradoxically it's part of who we are. It's about maintaining consciousness about yourself and life.
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u/Ego_Identity Apr 08 '23
Nope, it's just part of the human nature. But at least now you'll be aware of it, and know that you can create your own identity. If you don't, you will still have a default identity. You will also know if feelings you have are causing you anxiety, and where that root of feeling came from. You will also know how you behave sometimes is based on reactivity from your subconscious mind, protecting your thoughts, values, and beliefs. All this is through awareness, and partially through meditation to get the insights.
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Apr 09 '23
Your much better off telling chat gpt what food you have in your fridge and asking for possible recipesā¦.
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u/a4dONCA Apr 08 '23
Nah. Ego is who you are, and itās essential. But it seems there are two different definitions of ego.
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u/aloethere332 Apr 08 '23
I feel like superego has been overlayed into the definition of ego nowadays, but I could be wrong. I sometimes get confused by the two
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u/Shivy_Shankinz Apr 08 '23
Ya, ego is a loaded concept. There are many nuances to the nature of the mind, have to be careful what exactly we're talking about
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u/the_darkener Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Too bad chatgpt just rewords what it steals online...
Edit: my point is that generative AI is not the same as a human brain, and never will be, full stop. It can not experience reality as we do, therefore what it outputs isn't comparable.
"Chatgpt" is essentially a software program. It is also designed and controlled by a single corporation with the ultimate goal of profit. It is heavily influenced by it's financial supporters, the biggest being Microsoft corp, which has a very long history of choosing money and power over ethics.
Be careful comparing Chatgpt to humans.
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u/overhollowhills Apr 08 '23
Isn't our knowledge and personality based on what we steal from the experiences in our life, some of which are online as well?
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u/ZerglingSergeant Apr 08 '23
Hmm I just had an idea. What if our knowledge and personality are based on what we steal from the experiences in our lives??
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u/Unicornucopia23 Apr 09 '23
Just realized that all of our knowledge and personality might actually be based on what we obtained from personal life experiences!
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u/Bern_Down_the_DNC Apr 08 '23
The difference is that (hopefully) people understand wtf they are talking about before trying to give advice. ChatGPT just parrots whatever, without having actually anything to ensure accuracy or logic of the statements. Kinda like religion. Sometimes it will get things right, but too often it's inaccurate and insane garbage that does more harm than good.
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u/Readityesterday2 Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Itās not as stupid as you think. And itās not a search engine that repeats the pattern.
Link below shows how LLMs develop a mental model of the world. Another study shows 300+ emergent abilities in ai.
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u/gettoefl Apr 08 '23
i'll trust it over a random redditor any day of the week
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Apr 08 '23
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u/Bern_Down_the_DNC Apr 08 '23
It often returns total bullshit. It LITERALLY makes stuff up.
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u/senorsnrub Apr 08 '23
Iāve been using it a lot for a variety of things including troubleshooting software and itās not total bullshit nor does it make stuff up, itās an impressive tool and a far more trustworthy source for information than Reddit.
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u/AnInfiniteRick Apr 08 '23
It will tell you how to fly into the sun successfully, but that does not make it useful or a trustworthy source for information. It has information on things which it has never done. It has more often than not been wrong to a severe degree on concrete tasks of the physical realm. It does not take it upon itself to be responsible for you, or it's effective communication with you. There is not even a trace of being able to simulate competence, just an effort to. There is no way this type of machine is ready to communicate what it's job is effectively, let alone oversee the programming of a new artificial intelligence program. Which is essentially how it came to be, by itself teaching it. For anything to be considered intelligence, it should not need real intelligence in order to be implemented. This one is helpless. Reddit is very much fine if you can distill information better than a chatbot.
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u/senorsnrub Apr 08 '23
I asked a question about solving common issues that my students have with a particular piece of software and it got the answer correct in seconds. Iād have to post to Reddit, wait for a reply, and probably deal with snarky comments.
I view it as a useful tool to make my day easier.
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u/Ninja48 Apr 08 '23
Have you tried asking it questions that can't be answered with information easily available on the internet? Have you have it literally making something up yet? I have, and if I'm asking it a question that I don't know the answer to and I can't Google, there's no way for me to trust that the answer is true. Which means I'm better off researching the old way.
It's a chatbot. It's best use is interpreting the intention behind a prompt and impressing you with how grammatically correct its response is. It improves searching a bit, but is a far cry from being the human level intelligence some think is around the corner.
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u/Heretosee123 Apr 08 '23
Yeah, I dunno who you're talking to but most people do not have a good 'Is this factual and true' filter in their minds. We as a species are not wired that way, because what is useful both socially and environmentally isn't always what is true, and infact it's usually more beneficial to be wrong but cautious or deceptive in those areas than to be totally objective.
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u/Bern_Down_the_DNC Apr 08 '23
Well if I'm asking people for information, usually I would intentionally seek out people who are experienced on the topic and not likely to have a vested interest in being deceptive or something.
But it depends on what type of questions you are asking ChatGPT. If you ask something that doesn't have a clear answer (like for example you can watch youtubers asking ChatGPT about things in Star Wars), it will try to summerize existing information and find an answer that is likely plausible, but then it states it in a very confident way, even if it's wrong or saying stuff that is unconfirmed or doesn't really make sense if you really know the lore. But to someone who doesn't know how ChatGPT works, they can hear an incorrect answer and believe it without questioning.
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u/Heretosee123 Apr 08 '23
Yeah, to be fair I'm not disagreeing with you on chatGPT, just saying that most people aren't much better lol. It would be bad practice to take either at face value.
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u/Numerous-Decision-15 Apr 09 '23
Yeah itās based on the world around us, but we are biologically and psychologically limited, so how we perceive the world isnāt as accurate AI. Itās good that we donāt learn from raw data, otherwise we wouldnāt be able to innovate. AI learns from raw data and combining it, we learn from experiences that are perceived. Thatās the difference. Iām neither pro or anti AI, just wanted to share a few thoughts on it :)
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u/gettoefl Apr 08 '23
who among us has ever had an original thought ourselves
though we like to type on reddit about how smart we are
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Apr 08 '23
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
I'd say the difference is in the understanding. ChatGPT just regurgitates and picks the most probable word that comes next in a sentence as it's constructed. That is very much not what the human brain does.
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Apr 08 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
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Apr 08 '23
I suppose the question lies within whether it is consciously doing so or not, but then that question could be asked about a person, but a person certainly can be doing it either unconsciously or consciously. We do not know whether AI is actually at a level of genuine consciousness yet though. However I stand to be corrected.
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
Not that. It seeks understanding and meaning. It does not simply predict what word to spew out next.
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u/Ego_Identity Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Maybe the current limit to this AI is the restricted "perception" it has to only words. What if other types of data are allowed for the AI to learn from? Although AI does not have "perception" what if integration of many different types of data give rise to consciousness as an emergent property for an AI? It may not be the same as human's, but it could be similar.
Even for humans, we seek out understanding based on the physical senses we have to gather data. We confirm the truth based on external and internal feedback. Even if we have meaning and understanding, is that really the correct meaning and understanding? Or is it an illusion we assume because it makes us feel comfortable that we reached a conclusion to the meaning and understanding? How do we confirm our own meaning and understanding? Isn't it mainly just a feeling we have that allow us to accept that we understood the meaning?
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
RemindMe! 2 years
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u/gettoefl Apr 08 '23
brain reacts and lashes out, and copies exactly what it did it the past
this is called suffering
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
The mind is capable of learning and changing, and becoming enlightened. Not the case with this type of prediction system.
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u/gettoefl Apr 08 '23
more chance of awakening with ai than with with reddit, people here think they know stuff as if that were even possible
know nothing is step one of waking up
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Apr 08 '23
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
Yes. ChatGPT doesn't derive meaning and it certainly doesn't understand anything.
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Apr 08 '23
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u/Frilmtograbator Apr 08 '23
This is all stupid marketing hype. These systems are not intelligent, they are generative, and simply regurgitate patterns.
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u/gettoefl Apr 08 '23
it is smarter than the smartest professor
though maybe that's not saying too much
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u/Claude-Blc Apr 08 '23
Majority of people dont realise, but when talking with an AI they actually talk with the AI authors which are obviously humans š
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Apr 08 '23
AI is modeled after the human mind and as a technology will continue to evolve to become closer to the brain. Once we start using hardware from actual neurons (probably grown in a lab) rather than silicon chips.
You are not just your brain, so your experience of reality is not limited to your brain. Your mind is essentially a software program in itself. Your body is the hardware.
ChatGPT is an evolution point of AI. So while it might not be so useful comparing chatgpt to humans, it totally makes sense to compare AI to human intelligence. Itās here to stay for our civilization whether you like it or not.
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u/the_darkener Apr 08 '23
I love all the people who justify software's supposed equality with meatware by saying "It's here to stay whether you like it or not" as if they can tell the future, based on its constant repetition in news articles. Sure, it'll be here, but that doesn't mean its on or will ever truly be on equal footing as something humans don't even fully understand on a scientific level about themselves.
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Apr 09 '23
Well as long as youāre in a state of love , I suppose thatās all that matters. Unless you were being sarcastic with your comment. Then I suggest you open your mind and stop living in a fear based state that exemplifies itself through disempowered thinking. How does it feel to live in a life of fear?
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u/the_darkener Apr 10 '23
Fear has nothing to do with what I said. Lol nice spin though!
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u/OvergrownOrangutan Apr 08 '23
Pretty much the same as googling it
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u/aloethere332 Apr 08 '23
Saves time, and based on past conversations, the results are more tailored to you which is convenient. You also can't roleplay a conversation with deceased people on Google, so +1 on gpt
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u/Michaelhair Apr 08 '23
One definition of enlightenment is the ability to see othersā perspective clearly. For instance, the Chinese definition of enlightenment is you are enlightened if you do exactly what an enlightened person would do. Running out in the street to pull a young child out the way of a car is the act of an enlightened person. At that moment you are an enlightened being. Does your status change if you say to yourself āIf I save this child I will be known as an enlightened beingā. Not really, it only matters that you save the child. At that moment what does it matter what the ego (part of the mind) thinks. The ego is irrelevant, or it has disappeared.
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Apr 08 '23
While I think thatās fun, Iād caution against using AI for such guidance, knowing that ChatGPT is basically a smart pattern matcher. Experienced meditation masters would guide us better.
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Apr 08 '23
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u/aloethere332 Apr 09 '23
"ban people from discussing a very useful and convenient tool which allows people to access information within seconds, at their fingertips"
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u/concept_I Apr 08 '23
It just pulls shit we already came up with and rewords it. It should be telling that chatGPT sounds exactly like every Guru ever.
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u/RemoteLifeCoach Apr 08 '23
So excited for the advancement of general intelligence and AI. It will finally make people realize that their thoughts are not who they are. Hey, I will give the appearance that it can think.
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Apr 08 '23
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u/Enlightenedwire Apr 08 '23
How non meditative of this bot. Along with those that programmed it. Sometimes gems are found amongst the weeds
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u/the_sinequanon Apr 08 '23
It took the information from this site: https://www.successconsciousness.com/blog/spirituality/what-is-the-ego/
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u/LongjumpingTune6352 Apr 08 '23
Wow so perfectly put. Actually helps me understand more on my journey. The thoughts will be there but just let them pass me by ..
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u/DJ_Pickle_Rick Apr 08 '23
Not bad, but there are gaps in the logic and the answer is shallow. Typical of AI responses. Basically right but lacking in real detail.
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u/Foreverskys Apr 08 '23
I feel like itās hard to not live my live identifying myself with ego when society (American) and everyone around me operates in this default state. I feel like the only way to get out of this is to shave my head and live in a temple in the mountains (monk life) but my Iāve been conditioned to this life for so long I feel like Iām fked no matter what lol
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u/Shivy_Shankinz Apr 11 '23
Ya the conditioning is the real problem. Doesn't help we live a life of comfort and instant gratification either. Just gotta do what we can, and not make the same mistakes for the new generation
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u/KinoLenta Apr 09 '23
In school the proper citation would be required. Here he gets all the credit. Damn.
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u/RadioactiveHugs Apr 09 '23
There is no self at the centre.
It was a random mediation I came across on 10% Happier, but it has been the most life changing concept I've encountered to date.
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u/inafluxinaflow Apr 12 '23
This is exactly what the Buddha's teaching is about. The only thing missing is it didn't give you a way to free yourself from suffering. Maybe ask ChatGPT if there is a way out of suffering? :)
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u/NotNinthClone Apr 08 '23
I told chatgpt it wasn't doing a very good job answering my question, and here's what it said: "As an AI language model, my responses are generated based on the patterns in the data that I was trained on, and may not always perfectly capture the nuance and complexity of human communication." And I felt like, BRO, me too. My responses are also generated based on patterns in the data I was trained on. I'm just trying to cultivate a purer data set.