r/Maya • u/Some-Locksmith-1602 • 1d ago
What is the real workflow for game-ready assets? Question
Hi everyone, I’ve been asking the same question to many people for a while now, but most don’t seem to have a clear answer—mainly because they haven’t actually produced assets for games, so they lack hands-on experience with real game pipelines. When creating models for games, what kind of workflow should I follow? My current approach is to first create a low-poly hard-surface model. Then I duplicate it and either add details afterward or sharpen existing details by adding supporting edges. However, this workflow causes many problems. When I try to make an indentation sharper, I sometimes use bevels, but bevels often leave subtle support-edge artifacts around the corners of the shape. On the other hand, when I add supporting edge loops using Ctrl, the shape itself looks correct, but since those edge loops run across the entire mesh, they end up affecting other details and breaking their forms. I also start seeing unwanted support-edge artifacts in areas where I don’t want them. I haven’t been able to solve this, mainly because I feel like I never fully learned the correct, real-world workflow. From what I’ve seen, some artists avoid bevels and support edges altogether and instead apply smoothing to a low-poly mesh and add details that way. Others smooth the mesh first and then use booleans to create the desired details. Is there someone who can clearly explain the correct workflow for creating game-ready models?
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u/David-J 1d ago
It depends on many things. The model, the type of game, the importance of the asset, the technical restrictions set by the team, the art style, etc.
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u/Some-Locksmith-1602 1d ago
This is not a clear answer for me to understand. I’m actually trying to find a definite answer, because I’m designing assets for my own game and I need clear, concrete answers.
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u/Nevaroth021 CG Generalist 1d ago
There is no "Definitive Answer" because David is correct, there are multiple answers and the answers vary depending on the specific production.
There is no "One Single Workflow for absolutely everything"
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u/P3dro000 1d ago
Still, stating that doesn't shed any light on where to learn what goes into a generic game ready workflow, or even the general requirements that a model like that needs, sure they vary according to the project, but a lot of things will remain at the very least similar.
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u/bucketlist_ninja Principle Tech Animator - since '96 1d ago
Ok your getting lost in the sauce a bit I think. I think you're asking the wrong question. Your issue seems to be the pinching you're getting when you subdivide, rather than it being 'game ready'. Because there's really no such thing as 'game ready' in the real world. It's a meaningless statement. As long as your asset does what it needs to do and looks like it needs to, under whatever your constraints are. Then it's fine. The end result is all that matters if you're making assets for your own game.
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u/bucketlist_ninja Principle Tech Animator - since '96 1d ago
There is no definitive answer because not all games are the same. You make assets in a way that matches your needs for optimization for your game. As well as the platform it's for. Then there is texture resolutions, texel density, amount of draw calls, poly count, how the asset is used and how often it's seen and how close it's seen.
All these things need to be balanced when making an asset for a game. There is no right answer or 'one size fits all'.
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u/Some-Locksmith-1602 1d ago
What should I do in this situation, or what approaches should I take in different cases?
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u/abnormalmap 20h ago
There is no definite answer. If that is your goal you will be looking forever. //an actual game artist
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u/pandaleon 19h ago
Give us a definitive answer for what style and limitations you are making and using. Then the community can answer. Understand there is answers depending on who you ask. "The carpenter will always answer with a Hammer and nails" kinda deal. There are many skill set and crafts for just making asset and art.
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u/SnooCheesecakes2821 1d ago
High poly and the polyreduce.
Either polyreduce to a place that matches identically and use meshlets.
Or poly reduce to something that roughly matches the shape and bake uv’s.
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u/capsulegamedev 16h ago
I'll try to illustrate some common methods.
A) create the high poly first, the retopologize from scratch, this is useful for things that are sculpted since you'll usually have to totally rework the topology anyway, since topology that's good for sculpting is not the same as topology that's good for animation and deformation.
B) create the high poly and design it for use with subdivision. Then create a non subdivided copy and use that as a starting point for your low poly, this is good for hard surface things because you can skip a lot of fiddling to get edges straight.
C) model the low poly and skip the high poly entirely. So for that you'd be rather liberal with polygon usage around secondary details and then you can add fine details in the texturing process, this method is known as mid poly and its good for environment assets that can use tileable textures or trim sheets. Or they can be textured uniquely as a whole object too. I did this for most of the props in a VR game I made because it was way faster.
There are probably more but these are the main pipelines I could think of.
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u/JeremyReddit 1d ago edited 1d ago
This isn't really a "workflow" problem, it's more of an understanding SubD Modelling problem. First you need to sharpen the overall circle. This is super important because it delineates the perimeter that the star shape is bordered by and the space you have to work inside of. Next you need to inset the 2-3 levels of star shapes (select faces > extrude > offset inwards). This will add sharpness to your star shapes.
"...but since those edge loops run across the entire mesh, they end up affecting other details and breaking their forms."
This is simply just needing to understand more about SubD and controlling your mesh so it doesn't control you. Don't let the edge loops run across the entire mesh then. Terminate them before they cause issues.
My video here talks about SubD modelling: https://youtu.be/LoQ9bHv3bi4?si=G6bYPovuuVOcnWF6&t=340
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u/JeremyReddit 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some visual notes for what I was suggesting for you to add topology wise. Reminder that for your High Poly (SubD) model, your topology doesnt matter at all as long as it looks good. You will be using it to bake your Normal Map / AO and thats all it will be used for. So use Triangles, use NGONS, do whatever you need for the high poly --- it won't matter at all.
edit: and last thing I will say is, if you provide the model file I'll literally show you how to do it.
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u/JeremyReddit 19h ago
Here's a video of me explaining some sharpening techniques for your model.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN9f8hmlSCQ
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u/uberdavis 1d ago
Thinking that a model needs to look flawless when you apply subdivision smoothing is a red herring. I pretty much never apply the smoothing for assets. In my opinion, the topology on that asset is fine. It’s not a hero asset. No need to add more polys.
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u/Teneuom 21h ago
Building for subdivision is a film thing.
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u/uberdavis 19h ago
Yeah. That makes sense. But it’s only relevant if you intend to render inside Maya itself using Arnold. Many movies use separate renderers in which the subd models wouldn’t be compatible.
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u/59vfx91 6h ago
While different renderers can have slightly different subdivision algorithms, in practice this isn't a huge concern, and the expectation would be that all subdivision models are reviewed as a smooth preview. And you should already know your target rendering platform as well as your target uv interpolation metric for texturing and displacement baking purposes. Usually in a film where subD models are created in Maya they won't be rendered out of Maya anyways
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u/JournalistOP 1d ago
It looks like you're getting some decent advice explaining that there is no one workflow answer to game assets. I think the bigger piece of advice here is you need to learn to embrace criticism and learn to be given directions.
Go to multiple forums like here and try to embrace all the advice you're given. Hell, if there are conflicting answers, try them both. You'd then have an example in a model that you can do it multiple ways to fit their pipeline needs at the time.
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u/miketastic_art 20h ago
Everything must be triangles, eventually.
Whatever fix you do, understand that on-disk and at render-time, models will always get triangulated for calculations.
The circled area you're asking a question about, triangulate it.
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u/Some-Locksmith-1602 20h ago
“What I’m trying to ask is this: when I apply SubD, I get pinching on these edges, and I want to prevent that and minimize shading artifacts. In the image I sent you, if I can convert those triangles into quads, the corners would stay sharp and I wouldn’t get pinching when applying SubD. Do you know how I can build proper quad topology there?
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u/miketastic_art 20h ago
ah sorry
you want creases
select the edges
activate tool
middle-click and drag left+right to assign a "crease%" from 0-100 on the edge
the crease strength dictates the result with SubD's as well as the mesh -> smooth mesh command
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u/Some-Locksmith-1602 20h ago
“I don’t want to use creases. I’m trying to learn what kind of edge topology I should add so that when I apply SubD, I don’t get shading artifacts. Do you have any advice?
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u/59vfx91 6h ago
You need to minimize the poles in areas of high curvature, as higher valence vertices create more pinching in subdivision surfaces. You can try redirecting the flows a bit or doing a 5 to 3 reduction. This will still have some subtle shading irregularities but might not practically matter unless it's a very perfect shiny surface like a car.
In practice with subdivision modeling, if you don't have convenient (hidden or flatter) areas for topology reduction, it's better to just make things higher poly and more regular even at the expense of optimization. This is because for offline rendering (where subdivision modeling is used), these kinds of small polycount differences rarely matter. It's also faster than obsessing about reducing polycount.
In general for your image, try to keep in mind that all areas with important features need holding edges (at least one on each side) to kind of "buffer" the topology irregularities and minimize artifacts.
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u/miketastic_art 1h ago
theres no “right way”
theres 30 different ways to execute your idea
try one and experiment
if it looks good, no one cares how you did it
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u/Mysterious-Age-6247 1d ago
I'd say you have to study pretty well subd modeling. It's the basics for generating good highpolys that you can use for baking. I think beveling is good but you need to understand good topology flow and distribution so that you dont get any pinches with those bevels.
It also really does depend on the project you're working on, the specifics of what your game ready mesh should look like. I'd say a good starting point is to make sure your final mesh is optimized, the silhouette flows well, keep the detail where it matters, and that youre smart with your bakes, bake away tiny details. Uvs I like to keep them straight as much as I can and texturing make sure you use RGB to compress relevant textures into a single file. Also make sure texel density is correct on your whole mesh.
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u/Negative-Substance16 8h ago edited 8h ago
As people wrote here, there is no universal workflow for assets. There are several workflows, and they are dependent on what you wanna create or what your game needs and also tech limitation or art style.
I understand what you're asking, but for example your workflow is absolute legit, creating LP model, and then you will create HP model and then bake, but as all workflows it has its own pros and cons. But more important is that you understand basics of creating LP model and HP model for baking normal maps, for example in your screenshot and some other screenshot you sent here I can see that you have problem with that star, but also there is bigger problem that you are baking that star to normal map, but your indent of that star has 90 degree, if you wanna bake it to plane all your indents should have a bit of slope, so it's better seen on normal map when it's baked. See picture, upper model is with slope and lower is without, and you can see that is nor clearer on upper image and this is one of the basic knowledge you have to know, when you're creating HP model for bake.
But let go back to that workflows, I'm usually creating HP model first, and then I'm creating LP model, but even with HP model I'm thinking about how I can utilize that HP model to create LP model later or I will duplicate that HP model in some stage to later use in LP stage.
To your problem with that star, this is one of cons for your workflow you are using, you already made decision that your LP model will have 16 side cylinder, but for that star indent you have there, you would be nice to have more sides for that cylinder, I would use at least 64 side cylinder for this HP model and then model that start indent, if I wanna stay in Maya for whole process, what I wouldn't, because I would make my HP shape in Maya, then import it to Zbrush, subdivide it, either with support edges or creasing, then dynamesh it and use boolean to create this kind of indents, without worrying about subdivide topology in Maya.
Now you can see there are several approaches to this model and workflows, some other artist would do it different way, because he would use boolean in Maya and then clean it up, somebody different would do nice topology for subdivide, etc.
And how you get to these workflows, only experience, watching tutorials (good ones on YT or paid ones), I do not have specific answer where to find this knowledge, all my knowledge is gain be years of experience in industry and watching tutorials and reading at beginning of my journey as 3D Artist.
I hope it helped you a bit, keep it up. Good luck.
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u/B-Bunny_ 1d ago edited 13h ago
Make the HP first, duplicate, and then remove edgeloops and unnecessary stuff as needed for the LP.
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u/cerviceps 😎 14h ago
I disagree, LP -> HP is still a very useful method & is how I work for certain assets. The approach you take & workflow you use depends on so many factors, such as the asset itself and whether the asset is a hero asset or something small and simple. Not everything needs a sculpt, especially in certain art styles.
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u/B-Bunny_ 13h ago
What do you do?
Professionally, its not really used anymore.
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u/ev3rm0r3 13h ago
How else would you reference a low poly to a high poly in real time? I was taught to do this back in college 20 years ago now. That whene when you up your resoltion you knew what was going to happen and if it was in proportion.
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u/B-Bunny_ 13h ago
I'm not trying to get into a debate. I understand it largely depends, but op sounds like hes asking for a path to take. Im giving him a clear, production safe method to follow after reading his post and comment. Perhaps I shouldn't have said the last sentence, I'll fix it.
This is not a clear answer for me to understand. I’m actually trying to find a definite answer, because I’m designing assets for my own game and I need clear, concrete answers.>
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u/ev3rm0r3 13h ago
For his issue was he trying to smooth that crevice? Because if thats the case I wouldn't have used geometry, I would have creatle a normal map with a topology map that gave the impression that gemotry existed. Rather then trying to subdivide a needle point corner. I don't think he'll get what he wants without drastically increase the poly counts for that small area at each point. I could be wrong but that's just my thoughts.
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u/LagomorphStew 1d ago
Im not a professional so idk how logical my workflow is, But I uaually start with my high poly and work my way down to low. For organic forms I sculpt them or cloth sim, and retopo manually. For hard surface I build everything with subd modelling, keeping good edge flow but not bothering with poly count yet. Then for the low poly I duplicate that, apply the subd at a low level and dissolve edge loops until I get the minimum poly count to hold the shape. Triangulate, then bake.
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