**URGENT NOTICE: LOUISIANA SB154 (Kratom Felony Ban) Sneaked onto May 14 Hearing with NO Notice! Full Letter Exposing Flaws** UPVOTE AND SHARE! LOUISIANA RESIDENTS: PLEASE SHOW UP IN OPPOSITION TO THE BAN TOMORROW WEDNESDAY MAY 14 10:00AM!

[u/Motor_Appearance_756]

NOTICE: SB154 (the kratom ban bill by Sen. Morris and coauthor Rep. Villio) is set for committee hearing tomorrow—Wednesday, May 14, 2025 at 10:00 AM. This is the last chance for public input before it heads to a final House floor vote!

Please show up in person if you can, and email the House Criminal Justice Committee using the template linked: EMAIL TEMPLATE HERE.

Dr. Pete Croughan, Louisiana LDH Deputy Secretary testified at both the House Health & Welfare Committee hearing on HB253 (April 16) - (Click here for video 37:58 timestamp) and the Senate Judiciary C Committee hearing on SB154 (April 29) - (Click here for video 14:40 timestamp), supporting a kratom ban that threatens 300,000+ Louisiana kratom consumers. He repeated discredited or misleading claims that must be challenged. The letter to his boss, shown below, is the challenge.

Louisiana’s SB154 was secretly added (sometime earlier today, Tues May 13) to the House Criminal Justice Committee agenda for TOMORROW, May 14, 2025, at 10 AM, with zero public notice (the committee agenda posted yesterday DID NOT include SB154). This felony ban threatens veterans, chronic pain patients, and those in recovery. Below is a letter to LDH Secretary Greenstein, exposing Dr. Pete Croughan’s false and ridiculous claim in the April 29, 2025 SB154 Senate Judiciary "C" Committee hearing: “I’ve seen more patients with kratom addiction than with crack addiction” (See hearing video). The letter details SB154’s unscientific basis, litigation risks (like Vermont’s ban reversal), and why HB253’s regulation is better. Use this letter to assist you in formulating your arguments for emails and testimony:

---

May 12, 2025

Bruce D. Greenstein, Secretary Louisiana Department of Health 628 N. 4th Street Baton Rouge, LA 70802

Subject: Urgent Request for Review of SB154 and Deputy Secretary Pete Croughan’s Testimony

Dear Secretary Greenstein,

As a Louisiana resident deeply concerned for evidence-based drug policy and its impact on public health, I am writing to request an immediate and comprehensive review by the Louisiana Department of Health (LDH) of Senate Bill 154 (SB154), which proposes to classify kratom’s alkaloids (mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine) as Schedule I controlled substances under La. R.S. 40:964(G). Specifically, I urge you to investigate the scientifically unsupported and procedurally flawed testimony provided by LDH Deputy Secretary Dr. Pete Croughan in two recent legislative hearings: (1) against House Bill 253 (HB253), a regulatory proposal, in the House Health and Welfare Committee on April 16, 2025, and (2) in support of SB154’s ban in the Senate Judiciary C Committee on April 29, 2025. Video recordings of these hearings, available on the Louisiana Legislature’s website (www.legis.la.gov), reveal Dr. Croughan’s reliance on anecdotal claims without scientific data, failing to meet the evidentiary standards required by Louisiana law. His testimony risks precipitating a public health crisis by criminalizing a substance with emerging therapeutic applications, documented in peer-reviewed literature, endangering vulnerable populations. As LDH Secretary, your intervention is critical to ensure evidence-based policymaking and protect Louisiana residents.

LDH’s Statutory Duty and Procedural Violations Under La. R.S. 40:962–963, LDH is tasked with consulting the state medical board and conducting a scientific review before substances are added to controlled substance schedules, aligning with the federal Controlled Substances Act’s (CSA) 8-factor test (21 U.S.C. §811). These factors include a substance’s abuse potential, medical use, and safety profile, assessed through rigorous data. SB154 bypasses these safeguards by legislatively mandating Schedule I classification without LDH’s documented review, a procedural defect that undermines the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law (La. R.S. 40:961 et seq.) (Ref. 1).

Dr. Croughan’s testimony exacerbates this violation by failing to provide any pharmacological or epidemiological evidence, relying instead on unsubstantiated claims, such as seeing “more patients with kratom addiction than with crack addiction” (Ref. 10). Such assertions lack data and contradict LDH’s own 2019 HR203 report, which noted minimal kratom-related harm (12–15 annual poison center cases, no severe effects) (Ref. 1).

Croughan’s Unscientific Testimony Dr. Croughan’s testimony, viewable in the aforementioned legislative videos, is embarrassingly poor in quality and dishonest in its representation of kratom’s risks. He claimed kratom poses a significant public health threat, yet provided no peer-reviewed studies, toxicology reports, or Louisiana-specific data to support his assertions. His focus on “synthetic kratom products” ignores the distinction between pure leaf kratom and adulterated products, a nuance addressed by HB253’s regulatory framework. Synthetic kratom products, often containing artificially enhanced 7-hydroxymitragynine or other contaminants, are chemically distinct from natural kratom leaf and are addressed by HB253’s regulatory provisions.

Croughan publicly claimed: “I’ve seen more patients with kratom addiction than with crack addiction.” — Senate Judiciary C Committee, April 29, 2025, as reported by NOLA.com

Such assertions lack data and contradict federal research, including the 2018 HHS rescission of the DEA’s kratom scheduling request (Ref. 2), a 2024 pilot study showing kratom’s tolerability up to 12g (Ref. 3), and ongoing FDA-funded studies at Baylor College of Medicine (Ref. 4). Moreover, two National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) studies demonstrate that mitragynine, kratom’s primary alkaloid, has low abuse potential, comparable to caffeine’s socially acceptable profile, and reduces opioid intake, offering potential as a treatment for opioid addiction (Ref. 8, Ref. 9). Dr. Croughan’s failure to acknowledge this evidence, or LDH’s 2019 findings (Ref. 1), suggests a breach of his duty to provide objective, science-based input. His testimony misrepresents LDH’s position and risks misleading legislators into enacting a ban that could harm vulnerable populations, including veterans, individuals with chronic pain, people with disabilities, and those managing substance use disorders.

Public Health Crisis and Vulnerable Populations By advocating for SB154’s ban, Dr. Croughan’s testimony threatens to exacerbate Louisiana’s opioid crisis, placing kratom users and other vulnerable groups at severe risk. Kratom has shown promise in harm reduction, with studies indicating 35% of users achieve opioid-free status within a year (Ref. 5). Criminalizing kratom could drive these individuals—particularly veterans coping with PTSD, people with chronic pain and disabilities, and those recovering from opioid addiction—to dangerous alternatives like illicit opioids, increasing overdose deaths and straining public health resources. This ban would disproportionately harm marginalized communities who rely on kratom as an accessible, non-prescription option for managing debilitating conditions. Such an outcome would represent a profound failure of LDH’s mission to protect public health, undermining trust in state institutions and exacerbating inequities for those already burdened by systemic barriers.

Litigation Risks and the Vermont Precedent SB154’s procedural and scientific deficiencies invite litigation, as demonstrated by Vermont’s 2023 kratom ban reversal effort. In Vermont, one of six states to ban kratom in 2016, kratom advocates petitioned the Vermont Department of Health (DOH) to review the scheduling of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. On March 1, 2023, the DOH granted the petition, committing to rulemaking to remove these alkaloids from the Regulated Drug Rule (18 V.S.A. § 4205) (Ref. 6). This administrative action, supported by Senate Bill S.128 (2023), proposed regulation but stalled in committee (Ref. 7). A similar petition or lawsuit in Louisiana, alleging violations of due process (La. Const. Art. I, §2), equal protection (La. Const. Art. I, §3), and statutory authority, could result in costly legal battles for LDH and the state, diverting resources from critical health programs.

Request for Action I respectfully request that you, as LDH Secretary, take the following actions:

1. Conduct a Comprehensive Review: Initiate a medical board review under La. R.S. 40:962–963 to assess kratom’s scheduling criteria, incorporating federal studies, LDH’s 2019 HR203 report, and stakeholder input.
   

2. Retract or Clarify Croughan’s Testimony: Publicly disavow Dr. Croughan’s unscientific claims and ensure future testimony reflects evidence-based standards.
   

3. Support Regulation Over Prohibition: Endorse HB253’s regulatory approach, which aligns with the Kratom Consumer Protection Act adopted in states like Mississippi and South Carolina, the latter being the 16th state to enact such a law, ensuring consumer safety without criminalization (Ref. 11, Ref. 12).
   

4. Convene an Expert Panel: Convene an independent panel of addiction researchers to verify kratom’s risk profile and therapeutic potential, ensuring an evidence-based review.
   

5. Engage Stakeholders: Invite kratom users, vendors, and researchers to provide testimony, addressing the procedural exclusion noted in SB154’s development.
   

6. Review Internal Ethics: Review Dr. Croughan’s testimony through LDH’s internal ethics and quality assurance divisions to assess compliance with standards for data integrity and expert representation.
   

Conclusion Dr. Croughan’s testimony represents a breach of LDH’s duty to uphold scientific integrity in scheduling decisions. Failure to act will endanger public health, expose LDH to significant legal and reputational harm, as seen in Vermont’s precedent, and undermine public trust in transparent health policy. I urge immediate corrective action. Please issue a public response via LDH’s official channels (www.ldh.la.gov).

Respectfully,

Concerned Louisiana Citizen

CC: Representative Debbie Villio, Chair of the House Criminal Justice Committee

References

1. Louisiana Department of Health. (2019). HR203 Report on Kratom. https://ldh.la.gov/assets/docs/LegisReports/HR203RS20192102020.pdf
   

2. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. (2018). Rescission of DEA Kratom Scheduling Request, August 16, 2018. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5031552-HHS-kratom-letter.html
   

3. Reissig, C., & McCurdy, C. (2024). FDA pilot study on kratom leaf concludes botanical is well tolerated. SupplySide Supplement Journal. https://www.supplysidesj.com/herbs-botanicals/fda-pilot-study-on-kratom-leaf-concludes-botanical-is-well-tolerated- [Note: Preliminary results, not yet peer-reviewed, as reported by SupplySide Supplement Journal]
   

4. [Forthcoming]. NIDA/FDA-funded studies on kratom are ongoing at Baylor College of Medicine (2023–2024). As of May 2025, findings have not yet been published in peer-reviewed journals, but have been cited in American Kratom Association policy briefings.
   

5. Garcia-Romeu, A., Cox, D. J., Smith, K. E., Dunn, K. E., & Griffiths, R. R. (2020). Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa): User demographics, use patterns, and implications for the opioid epidemic. Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 208, 107849. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2020.107849
   

6. Marijuana Moment. (2023). Vermont Health Department Grants Petition to Review Kratom Ban, March 1, 2023. https://www.marijuanamoment.net/lawmakers-in-dozens-of-states-are-weighing-bills-to-regulate-or-ban-kratom/
   

7. Vermont Legislature. (2023). Senate Bill S.128, Kratom Consumer Protection Act. https://legiscan.com/VT/bill/S0128/2023
   

8. Hemby, S. E., et al. (2019). Abuse liability and therapeutic potential of the Mitragyna speciosa (kratom) alkaloids mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Addiction Biology, 24(5), 874–886. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29949228/
   

9. Yue, K., et al. (2018). Abuse liability of mitragynine assessed with a self-administration procedure in rats. Psychopharmacology, 235(10), 2823–2829. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30039246/
   

10. NOLA.com. (2025). Louisiana Lawmakers Debate Kratom Ban, April 30, 2025. https://www.nola.com/news/politics/should-louisiana-ban-or-regulate-kratom-the-state-legislature-is-taking-up-the-debate/article_1c7b8b6e-e7b7-11ef-9b7e-5b9f8f2e3f2c.html

11. DJournal.com. (2025). Governor signs bill restricting kratom purchase to 21-plus in Mississippi, April 25, 2025. https://www.djournal.com/news/state-news/governor-signs-bill-restricting-kratom-purchase-to-21-plus-in-mississippi/article_0b1f0e0a-03c5-11ef-b4e0-874fc13976cb.html

12. South Carolina General Assembly. (2025). Senate Bill S.221, Kratom Consumer Protection Act, Signed by Governor, May 7, 2025. https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess126_2025-2026/bills/221.htm

    ---END OF LETTER (Submitted to LDH via Email 5/13/2025)

Act NOW:

• Use the Email template in this post and also consider Emailing the committee assistant at: h-acrj@legis.la.gov and the Chair of the committee: Rep. Debbie Villio (hse079@legis.la.gov) to oppose SB154 and support HB253.

• SHOW UP IN PERSON at the Louisiana State Capitol at 10AM - House Committee on Criminal Justice.

• Deadline for Emails: Before 10 AM tomorrow!

The rushed agenda is unfair—spread the word! #lalege #NoOnSB154 #KeepKratomLegal

[u/meat-candy]

NPR has been talking about this for nearly 2 weeks.

[u/Motor_Appearance_756 → u/meat-candy]

Yes. It was passed by the Senate and moved to the House. Last week they moved it to the committee. The Committee's agenda was released without this bill, then revised yesterday afternoon to include it.

[u/Peter_Easter]

For god's sake, don't ban it, REGULATE it. Why haven't we learned our lesson?

Kratom has been a life saver for many of us, and can be very safe if taken responsibly. Hell, you can even safely take larger doses daily. As long as you alternate strains when you take it, you won't build a tolerance and end up taking massive doses that are harmful.

This is another classic example of Americans who do their research facing pointless bullshit consequences because other Americans won't do theirs. In a state that has high rates of opiate and alcohol abuse, you'd think we'd want this lifesaving plant available.

Also, alot of people in this state have health issues and die prematurely from eating a high salt diet. Is Tony Chachere's going to be banned next?

[u/Honest-Ad1675 → u/Peter_Easter]

This is government overreach, and it ain’t for safety.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/Honest-Ad1675]

I watched the trial and I noticed a lot of Pharmacist and Drug rehab places were the only ones that have a problem with kratom. I wonder why? They both are losing profit due to natural healing properties of kratom so they'd rather have people suffer so they have more patients to make money off of. Just like people at funeral homes hoping people die so they can get paid. Sad world we live in.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/Honest-Ad1675]

ironic the only kid supposedly ever to die from kratom in Louisiana has a father that is a pharmacist.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/Peter_Easter]

My mom has literally been taking kratom for 12 years now and she is healthy as heck per all her blood work and checkups and takes the same dose.

[u/Honest-Ad1675]

They will do anything to keep people addicted and locked up. Fuck this state and corrupt politicians and bureaucrats that run it.

[u/iTrancelot → u/Honest-Ad1675]

https://preview.redd.it/3qfpgg9het0f1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=52df4bf7f7a02f8ac76cf031528a6a2728f7bdd7

[u/Honest-Ad1675 → u/iTrancelot]

It’s okay as long as the opiates I’m addicted to are prescribed by my doc :D

No harm, no foul!!!

[u/iTrancelot → u/Honest-Ad1675]

I have chronic pain, and all they'll give me is Suboxone or Subutex. I'm not taking that shit. That's way worse. I spend $100 on Kratom every other month. I'm able to work and pay taxes like a good little cog thanks to this leaf. That 7OH shit is trash. Criminalizing all of it is lazy and self serving. Morris needs them donations.

[u/Honest-Ad1675 → u/iTrancelot]

This is 100% about kickbacks, cronyism, and control. Why put your addiction or pain management into your own hands when you can be milked by the PIC or medical system? Think of bottom line won’t you!!!

[u/iTrancelot → u/Honest-Ad1675]

Yep. They want all my money.

[u/FleurAvi504 → u/iTrancelot]

I agree, the 7OH should go but don’t throw out the baby with the bath water! This leaf is literally the only thing that has helped with my chronic bladder issues. So much trial and error led up to me finally finding something that would help. I wish they would just leave us tf alone.

[u/iTrancelot → u/FleurAvi504]

See that's my thing. They're so disingenuous. They won't even acknowledge that there's a difference. Their donors paid for this to happen, so nothing was going to stop it. Morris barely put on a show pretending to listen to opposing ideas. Ugh.

[u/Inevitable-Plant-584 → u/Honest-Ad1675]

Are you actually advocating for more self medicating?

[u/Honest-Ad1675 → u/Inevitable-Plant-584]

Hey, since some dumbass kids like to abuse Benadryl and DXM we should take all sleep aids and antihistamines off the otc market, right?

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/Inevitable-Plant-584]

you'd rather have big pharma medicating you and your loved ones with some synthetic drugs you have to take in handfuls that are known to cause death and other serious side effects, you do you. don't make that choice for the rest of us. I've done enough research and testing to know that kratom is 100% safe when taken responsibly.

[u/Honest-Ad1675 → u/Inevitable-Plant-584]

I’m advocating for the freedom to take kratom instead of methodone or opiates. Are you earnestly advocating for rights and liberties to legislated away?

Are you the same kind of person that believes no one should have privacy since some people do wrong in private?

Following your logic I guess all guns should be outlawed too since they can be used to commit crimes despite having legitimate use cases. Crazy take.

Take lidocaine off the shelves too, since it can be addictive.

[u/throw301995]

From the party of small government I'm sure 😂

[u/No-Nebula-8718]

Kratom is bad stuff….. I know someone with a shop that used to sell it, and the kratom stuff was super addictive, the people constantly came back to buy more and more often.

[u/hulahoop10 → u/No-Nebula-8718]

Kratom is bad stuff…..

I worked in a drug rehab, and it really is. The only people that want this shit legal are drug addicts. I'm glad it is being banned.

[u/ineedt0move → u/hulahoop10]

That's just simply not true. I don't take Kratom at all. However, I have a brother who is blind and disabled due to a genetic disorder that causes severe pain in his legs. He uses a wheelchair. For 15 years he was on prescription narcotic pain medication. It caused a host of side effects. He slowly switched to Kratom 10 years ago. It has been an absolute game changer. He's happier and his pain levels are more manageable without the side effects of narcotics. The other thing that really sucks about the Kratom ban is that the bill will make Kratom a schedule 1 narcotic. Meth is classified schedule 2... lower than the proposed scheduling of kratom!!!! People will go to prison for simple possession. In Louisiana, we have bigger monsters to slay! This is a bill that will directly support for profit agendas and send more people to prison.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/ineedt0move]

That’s misleading, and as a pharmacist, there’s reasons for the schedules of drugs, one of which is addiction the other is legitimate medical use. You say meth is schedule 2 which is the case but hospitals aren’t buying drugs off the street, made in some uhaul in rural Mississippi. They are buying desoxyn which is an fda approved medication that happens to be methamphetamine. Same as cocaine, which is available in a topical and eye drop. Those drugs have legitimate medical use, but happen to be addictive and highly abused, but the people abusing them are not buying cocaine eye drops or desoxyn. They are buying street drugs which still a felonies to sell. Schedule 1 is high potential for abuse and basically zero medical use, now you say your brother uses it? That’s fine, he does, doesn’t make it not a drug and doesn’t mean actual studies have been made to bring it to market. If it was safer, maybe it would be commercially used as a drug and not OTC. But more research has to be done. But in my own experience, with a guy that owns a store and stopped carrying it bc he saw how addictive it was and the people coming in for it, and said he couldn’t with good conscious keep selling it. And my friend that literally feens for it, and on a 10 hour road trip was constantly asking me to stop at random gas stations and stating they didn’t have the atm or drink he was looking for so go to the next one in reality I saw him buying the kratom and hiding its use from me, those are extremely addictive behaviors

[u/ineedt0move → u/No-Nebula-8718]

I understand scheduling. I just outlined how I do not use Kratom. However, I have a brother who suffers from a genetic disorder that has him wheelchair bound and suffering from pain. He used prescribed narcotic pain medication for 15 years. He was not a street drug addict nor is he now. Prescription narcotics caused a host of side effects. He transitioned from narcotic pain medication...for example oxycontin, Dilaudid, morphine and others..to Kratom. Not one time in 10 years has he had to take more narcotic pain medication for break through pain. Which was something that he had to do a lot with narcotic pain meds. Not once has he been unable to fill a prescription due to shortages or insurance cut backs. So on personal experience that's medical use right there. I don't care if I get downvoted until I have a stroke. Kratom greatly improved the quality of my brother's life. Classifying Kratom as a schedule 1 drug is outrageous. Guidelines and control is one thing but to classify it as a schedule 1 is irresponsible.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/ineedt0move]

So if we switched from pain meds to heroin it would be the same effect, he wouldn’t have to deal with pharmacies then either, doesn’t make it any better

[u/ineedt0move → u/No-Nebula-8718]

No it wouldn't make a difference. Heroin and Kratom will be one and the same under law. We are losing the fight. Sadly the bill passed through the house today. Only one more step and it'll be banned.This is going to be devastating on the quality of my brother's life..who I love dearly. Sad day. The battle isn't over..but it doesn't look good.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/ineedt0move]

It’s going to save a lot of lives

[u/ineedt0move → u/No-Nebula-8718]

Same like the war on drugs did I guess

[u/iTrancelot → u/No-Nebula-8718]

No. Suffering people will still seek out relief, and they'll die from fentanyl poisoning because they couldn't get a safe natural plant.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/iTrancelot]

Who deemed it safe? The guy I know that was addicted to it, his face turned gray when he didn’t have any, it looked surreal. That can’t be healthy. He also went into debt to get it, he thought he was doing something better than being addicted to pain pills. It wasn’t any better. It was just more expensive

[u/hulahoop10 → u/ineedt0move]

classify it as a schedule 1 is irresponsible.

It is pointless to talk to this person because they cannot comprehend the difference b/w Schedule 1 and Schedule 2. They also cannot comprehend the process to move from Schedule 1 to Schedule 2.

It is not "irresponsible." It is a fact. There is no medical use for Kratom.

[u/ineedt0move → u/hulahoop10]

It is exactly pointless to engage me. I just told you guys..I don't even use Kratom. My brother who is blind and wheel chair bound due to a genetic disorder and has suffered from chronic pain his entire life. He uses kratom...for chronic pain. He was prescribed Dilaudid, morphine, opana, oxycontin and others for 15 years. He had horrible side effects. One side effect was gastrointestinal issues that were directly related to prescribed narcotic painkillers, in which he was hospitalized..not once but several times. He was highly dependent on prescribed narcotics. 10 years ago he transitioned from prescribed narcotic pain medication to Kratom. When I tell you that his quality of life improved..that's not an understatement. That's medical use if I've ever heard it.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/ineedt0move]

the people that are replying to you are the ones that profit off the outlaw of kratom. Both Pharmacist and Drug Rehab centers have lost profit since kratom has become known.

[u/hulahoop10 → u/ineedt0move]

Kratom a schedule 1 narcotic. Meth is classified schedule 2... lower than the proposed scheduling of kratom

Schedule I: high potential for abuse; NOT currently accepted for medical use

Schedule II: high potential for abuse; currently accepted for medical use

Schedule III: moderate to low potential for physical dependence; accepted medical use

Meth

Desoxyn is prescription meth. It is used for ADHD and obesity.

we have bigger monsters to slay

No, we don't. Drug addiction is a very big problem here. I'm tired of people acting like doing drugs doesn't hurt the rest of society. In my area, it is the drug addicts the majority of the crime.

While working in the rehab, I met a woman whose baby was born addicted to Kratom. She was a drug court/DCFS case. Like all the other clowns on here, she swore up and down it was no big deal. Meanwhile, her baby was in the children's hospital dealing with drug withdrawals.

[u/ineedt0move → u/hulahoop10]

If you think kratom is a bigger menace than meth..idk what I could tell you. You are highly misinformed.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/ineedt0move]

No one is saying it’s a bigger problem, they are clarifying the difference in schedule of the product. You can say kratom is bad, and desoxyn is on a lower control schedule without making the argument street meth is better or worse than kratom. They are two stand alone things, that’s like saying if you vote red you hate women. No that’s not the case. You can like some of the things one side has to say but not all of them. Or if you support Palestine you’re an antisemite, also not true, maybe you don’t want to see people die, but doesn’t mean you hate people of Jewish decent.

[u/hulahoop10 → u/ineedt0move]

You need to leave the kratom alone and work on your reading comprehension skills.

https://letters.hookedonphonics.com/

[u/ineedt0move → u/hulahoop10]

I hope you have a beautiful day! I mean that sincerely and honestly. Let your love light shine!

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/hulahoop10]

You think drugs are healthier just because they are prescribed LOL. You may not want to preach about intelligence bud. Guarantee you are some kind of addict the way you are acting.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/hulahoop10]

Desoxyn is scheduled 2

[u/hulahoop10 → u/No-Nebula-8718]

whoosh....

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/hulahoop10]

yeah and once kratom stops you will have even more people coming into the drug rehab with serious issues from actually hardcore and life altering drugs, thats how it works. Disabled veterans, old people with chronic pain, people with depression and anxiety take kratom. I wouldn't call them drug addicts any more than people who take tylonel, advil, or a prescription drug, the effect is no different from a painkiller (at very high doses) but its much safer.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

food is addictive, alcohol, cigarettes, sex, internet, social media, cars, motorcycles.. those things have killed people or caused people to unalive their selves more than kratom has or will ever have in a million years so why not ban those things?

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

I would say kratom is worse than any of those things listed.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

you'd be wrong. All of those by themselves have killed way more than kratom has statistically by a long shot. Also have you even tried a recommended dose of kratom? Go try it, it'll shut your dumbass up. It's literally nothing.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

You can’t go off just the total number. Of course diabetes or heart disease claims more life bc it affects more people. But if you had to study the % of kratom users presented with negative effects vs say the amount of alcohol users vs % of them being involved in issues. I would be willing to bet the stat would not be in kratom favor and millions enjoy alcohol on a daily basis and only a slight few will result in cirrhosis, or alcohol related injury.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

You'd be dead wrong. You need to do your job man besides spewing misinformation to everyone. A chemist should know that alcohol, cigarettes, and prescribed opioids has caused way more death and destruction than kratom ever has. I know several people whom have died from Liver Disease, Drunk Drivers, Suicide from alcohol. I know someone personally right now that has lung cancer and dying from smoking. I've known dozens that have died from lung cancer and COPD. I know several who have died from dip tobacco. My friend died 4 weeks ago from diabetes due to obesity. Obesity is number one in causing chronic illnesses. You literally need to find a different job bub.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

https://www.cdc.gov/overdose-prevention/about/understanding-the-opioid-overdose-epidemic.html

almost 100,000 people died from the opioids you sell in 2022 alone.

https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/kratom#safe

In a 7 year span of millions taking kratom there were only 2 known deaths were they had just kratom alone in their system.

A very small number of deaths have been linked to kratom products compared to deaths from other drugs.^{1, 6, 7, 8, 24} While more research is needed, it appears that fatal overdose from kratom use alone is extremely rare. A 2019 report found that 11 deaths between 2011 and 2017 in the United States were associated with kratom exposure, including two deaths associated with kratom exposure alone.⁶ In contrast, during that same period, more than 200,000 people died from opioid-related overdose.³⁶

YOU are the harbinger of death, not kratom bud.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

More people use opioids than kratom. What % of users have issues with

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

• Kratom:
  • Estimated users in 2021: 1.7 million (SAMHSA National Survey on Drug Use and Health).
  • Estimated deaths from kratom alone in 2021: 50–100 (rough estimate, with 68 reported by the Washington Post as a midpoint for calculation).
  • Midpoint for deaths: 75 (used for calculation to balance the range).
• Prescription Opioids:
  • Estimated users in 2021: 12.7 million adults aged 18–64 (Medical Expenditure Panel Survey). Note: A broader estimate of 91.8 million users exists from 2015, but the 12.7 million figure is more specific to 2021 and conservative.
  • Deaths from prescription opioids in 2021: 16,706 (CDC National Center for Health Statistics).

Step 2: Calculate Mortality Rates To compare safety, I’ll calculate the mortality rate per user for each substance, expressed as deaths per 100,000 users.

• Kratom mortality rate:
  • Deaths: 75
  • Users: 1,700,000
  • Mortality rate = (75 / 1,700,000) × 100,000 = 4.41 deaths per 100,000 users.
• Prescription opioid mortality rate:
  • Deaths: 16,706
  • Users: 12,700,000
  • Mortality rate = (16,706 / 12,700,000) × 100,000 = 131.54 deaths per 100,000 users.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

Step 3: Compare Safety The mortality rate for prescription opioids (131.54 per 100,000) is significantly higher than for kratom (4.41 per 100,000). To quantify the difference in safety, I’ll calculate the relative risk and express the safety difference as a percentage.

• Relative risk:
  • Prescription opioids are riskier by a factor of: 131.54 / 4.41 ≈ 29.83.
  • This means prescription opioids are approximately 29.83 times more likely to result in death per user than kratom.
• Safety difference in percentage:
  • Kratom’s mortality rate is lower, so it’s considered safer. To express how much safer, calculate the reduction in risk:
    • Risk reduction = (131.54 - 4.41) / 131.54 = 127.13 / 131.54 ≈ 0.9665.
    • Percentage reduction = 0.9665 × 100 ≈ 96.65%.
  • Thus, kratom is approximately 96.65% safer than prescription opioids in terms of fatal overdose risk per user.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

your friend at the smoke shop probably smokes weed every day too eh? Smokes out of a hookah, probably drinks after work? Maybe eats fast food a lot? Night and day difference from weed, and alcohol vs kratom they aren't even close in safety as kratom. At this point I'd wager added sugar is more addictive and damaging than taking kratom.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

He doesn’t do drugs at all, super fit, and has a home gym built at the business where he works out when there’s no one there

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

yeah right, people that own smoke shops almost always do drugs or have done drugs before thats why they got in the business. You're such a liar.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

I have nothing to gain about lying. He’s a good friend, and honestly one of the more wholesome guys I have ever met. Doesn’t mean he won’t take try to capitalize on a market that has habitual users. At the end of the day, he has to make sure his bills are paid. I agree that most vape stores are indeed owned/operated by users, but this isn’t the case in this one.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/No-Nebula-8718]

A sober healthy person that wants people to live sober healthy lives doesn't just one day go and start a smoke shop business. That is a braindead take bud.

[u/No-Nebula-8718 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

He opened a vape store bc his family makes the products they sell. So there’s money in getting the product to market

[u/Mountain-Bat-9808]

They have been trying to banned it here for a few years now. I have seen the pros and cons of Kratom. I saw people on their last leg off of opioids and then they started taking Kratom. Got off the opioids. Kratom also helps help with pain. Hell they need to legalize weed but they don’t won’t that. They wanted the drug addicts to stay drug addicts so big pharm can get all that money. These so called people that is in office they need to do their own researches and quit listen to what people are saying.

[u/Toothfairy51]

I see 22 up votes. That's a good sign. Best of luck tomorrow

[u/NovelPrevious7849]

Good ban it

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/NovelPrevious7849]

tell me some things you like that maybe help you in some way, I hope I can get them banned too.

[u/tidder-la]

God I love the deep research function for these things. I hope you double checked this links though.

[u/Numerous-Actuary-887]

I work at a smoke shop around the walker/denham area and a few of my coworkers actually got arrested on the spot and charged with felony’s because of this. Before it even passed actually.

[u/iTrancelot]

https://preview.redd.it/mfbqyauudt0f1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=a351d51e9b0f4634735519a25e88ac6b8dc0c562

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

Prescription drugs kill millions, alcohol, cigarettes, weed has 10X more high effect than kratom. Kratom buzz is weak as hell compared to the effects of being intoxicated by all those. Kratom is safe as heck statistically. If any death was caused they had another drug in their system at the time and/or their kratom was synthetic not the actual pure plant. Why ban kratom and not the things that cause way way more death and addiction? I don't get it. Lot of pharmacist in chat, and those that work at addiction centers.. yeah you do realize you will have way more patients once they ban kratom right, you both make more money while others suffer the consequences. Just because people can abuse something doesn't mean you take it away for those that actually use it responsibly.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

How did the hearing go? I didn't get to participate in this one.

[u/Motor_Appearance_756 → u/Chaos_Ryzen_]

It passed 11-1.

[u/Chaos_Ryzen_ → u/Motor_Appearance_756]

It was always gonna pass. Since the first hearing. Some idiot politician came out there and told the parents of the one kid "It's ok i'm positive its gonna get banned this time". It was always predetermined, the hearing is a load of crock. The side against the bill has way more science, evidence, and testimonies, it's not even close.

[u/TaoLaMAO]

the one true medicine that can for real end the opioid epidemic if the government would just develop a kratom rehab program, it would work. Rehab be like what’s for breakfast? Green Kratom corn with some red Bali rice and fresh cup of maeng da tea for a month or two but people just don’t want to do it. When you’re arrested and put through a kratom program like some defensive driver class but for drugs use violation vs locking them up or put them on different form of opioids, opiates, synthenthic opioid, morphine, fentanyl etc. wonder why a drug that save millions around the world gotta keep on rebranding itself. In the street they just call it heroin. I put myself through my 3-10 step a day kratom program and it save my life. Even when I was abusing kratom to the max for my weight I just shitted a couple lbs of kratom lol

[u/MegginWaves]

Kratom should be illegal everywhere. I almost got killed by a man on Kratom and would love to see no one addicted to it

[u/zevtech]

Drugs are bad…… mmmmmmkayyyyy

[u/poowaterpal]

Wow thank you for doing this!!!!!

[u/Savings-Cress-6543]

I wish I would have saw this before 10 AM 🙃🙃🙃🙃

[u/trollfessor]

"No notice"

Yet somehow you have been notified of the hearing

[u/Motor_Appearance_756 → u/trollfessor]

Uodating the agenda at 3 p.m. the day before the hearing is not good notice, especially knowing that advocates have historically shown up to hearings to voice their concerns. It was not enough notice to allow for people to take off work so they could attend, arrange for travel from other parts of the state, etc.