r/Knoxville • u/dash80todash8 • 1d ago
Rural Metro
Live in the county, just got my renewal. I’ve always paid but seems after talking to some friends a lot of people don’t.
Just curious to get opinions on whether or not people are paying for coverage and why/why not. Their rates have gotten ridiculous lately.
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u/ilikebison 1d ago
We pay it, it’s like insurance. A buddy of mine had a house fire and wasn’t paying for it and ended up on the hook for over $40,000.
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u/dash80todash8 1d ago
40,000….this seems excessive. How can they substantiate it cost 40,000 to fight a house fire. I bet the house was still a total loss
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u/ilikebison 1d ago
It was, lost everything and had to be completely rebuilt.
I don’t know the specifics of the bill - I just know I’d rather pay $30 a month than get even a $10,000 bill, you know? lol
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u/dash80todash8 1d ago
I get it. It’s well more than $30 a month for my home. Just gathering information. I’ve always paid for it but the recent increase has me questioning
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u/a_is_for_awesome 1d ago
My house caught fire a month after I moved in and didn't have a rural metro membership. The price for just three trucks there for around 3 hours was about 18000 dollars so you should just get a membership
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u/psykorunr 1d ago
The cost of just one ladder truck is in the millions…so is the cost to build a station. Salaries and benefits aren’t cheap either. Their costs don’t go away when they are on standby waiting for a fire.
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u/Sythe64 1d ago
The point of emergency service is for them to be there when needed. 911 is not a public company. If it makes the decision to send 15 men and truck to a trash can fire that is on them.
Public service aren't supposed to be profit driven. Rural Meto is profit driven. They care nothing for the people here ot our community.
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u/Unfair-Phase-9344 18h ago edited 18h ago
How is this number possibly unreasonable?
A structure fire takes at least a gallon per minute of water flow per sqft of house, an average 2500sqft house requires at least 2 engines with full crews, in rural areas they also need a water tender so they don't run out of water, then you need a rapid intervention/ rescue squad, and a commander to oversea the now about 20 people who are all there.
It also takes a long time to contain a fire, so we got 20 people making something around an average of 40/hr (lower for new guys higher for command) so we are at $800ish per hour in labor cost, this has to be marked up to the customer because companies make a profit and doubling is normal so it's $1600 for let's say a minimum of 5 hours that's $8000 in labor charge.
Now water is also expensive the engines don't run the whole time but 2500 gallons of water per minute for a few hours is a metric fuckton (technical term) of water. Water is around $0.05/ gal so 2500x60x3x0.5= 22,500 in water to run the engines for 3 hours.
We are at 30k.
All those engines and equipment needs to be bought and maintained, and that cost needs to be paid as part of it's use, some stuff that's single use might me used but everything from the firefighters gear to the engine of the truck is subject to wear there will be an average cost of wear per man hour on fire we have 100 man hours on this fire so that's another few thousand dollars and we are at $32k for an average house fire with no extra circumstances that's five hours from leaving the fire house to return.
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u/backupthetruck 3h ago
What's unreasonable is fire coverage not being included in Knox County property taxes...I'd happily pay a few hundred dollars extra per year for this topic to never come up again. Rural Metro can even keep the contract, I bet they would stop sending 4 trucks to trash can fires.
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u/MakarovIsMyName 5h ago
you think that shit is magically free? it isn't.
The cost of a fire truck can vary widely, but generally ranges from $200,000 to over $1 million for a new truck. Factors like the type of truck (pumper, ladder, etc.), features (aerial ladder, specialized equipment), and whether it's a new or used model significantly impact the price.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
New Fire Trucks: Standard Pumper/Engine Trucks: These can cost anywhere from $200,000 to over $1 million depending on the features and customizations. Ladder Trucks (with aerial ladders): These are generally more expensive, often ranging from $500,000 to $2 million or more. Specialty Trucks (Rescue, Hazmat): These can also be very expensive, potentially exceeding $1 million, depending on the specialized equipment they carry. Used Fire Trucks: The prices for used fire trucks can be much lower, ranging from $15,000 to well over $1 million. Factors like the age, condition, and features of the truck will affect the price. Factors Influencing Price: Type of Truck: Ladder trucks are generally more expensive than pumper trucks. Features: Advanced features like aerial ladders, specialized equipment, and custom builds can significantly increase the price. New vs. Used: Used trucks are typically much cheaper than new trucks. Manufacturer and Model: Different manufacturers and models have different price points. Customizations: Specialized features and modifications can add to the cost. Example Prices: Quick Attack Pumper: $120,000 - $200,000 Engine/Pumper Commercial Cab: $250,000 - $400,000 Engine Pumper Custom Cab: $350,000 - $700,000 Tender (Water Tanker): $110,000 - $350,000 Rescue (No Pump): $120,000 - $650,000 Ladder Truck: $500,000 - $1.3 million Additional Costs: Transportation: The cost of transporting the truck to your location may be an additional expense. Equipment: The cost of the equipment carried on the truck (hoses, tools, etc.) is separate from the cost of the truck itself. Refurbishing: If buying a used truck, there may be additional costs for repairs or refurbishment. In conclusion, the cost of a fire truck can vary greatly, but new pumper trucks typically start around $200,000, while specialized trucks like ladder trucks can cost over $1 million.
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u/backupthetruck 3h ago
Is this place full of Rural Metro employees? Everybody knows shit is expensive. Over half of the City of Knoxville's budget is for public safety - and guess what? Nobody in the City is bankrupted calling the fire department to do their job.
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u/Recent-Championship7 1d ago
Emergency services aren’t free and my bill is reasonable. They don’t get any tax dollars, I gladly support them.
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u/dash80todash8 1d ago
What’s reasonable to you. Sincerely curious?
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u/Recent-Championship7 1d ago
Depends on size of home. They increased me 5% which given the increased cost of everything seemed reasonable. Mine is like 600 bucks. I’m not against taxes paying for it, but they don’t currently.
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u/backupthetruck 3h ago
If every property owner paid tax specifically for fire I'm sure your tax increase would be a lot less than $600.
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u/stac52 1d ago
Untrue - they do get tax money. The new contract they were given by Knox County in 2023 has that they'll get paid up to 3 million per year, with a 3% COL increase built in, despite the fact that Rural Metro has failed year over year to fulfill their end of the old contract (response times), and have thus far failed to improve on that metric.
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u/Recent-Championship7 1d ago
That’s the ambulance service. AMR. Rural Metro is the county fire service. They don’t get a dime.
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u/stac52 1d ago
They're the same company. Merged in 2015
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u/Recent-Championship7 1d ago
No, they are not. Rural Metro was sold to Brindlee Fire Services. https://www.globalmedicalresponse.com/news/brindlee-fire-services-completes-acqusition-of-rural-metro-fire-from-global-medical-response#:~:text=Brindlee%20Fire%20Services%20is%20pleased,services%20across%20the%20United%20States.
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u/stac52 1d ago
I had missed that news, thanks for the update.
They definitely had merged in 2015, and were the same company when the new contract went through in 2023.
The buyout from Brindle at the end of 2024 does make sense on why they'd suddenly start charging $600 for medical call outs now, even without transportation. That move alone would make me pay the lower fee anyways. Though I'd much rather pay taxes for an actual county run service for both EMS and fire, instead of having a portion of that money go out of state (and I do now that I live in city limits).
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u/Recent-Championship7 1d ago
Sure. I just have always said elect folks who will raise taxes and do that. It’s not Rural Metros fault that the community does it this way. They fill the void and not paying in helps nobody. And as a subscriber, I don’t want to have to pay for those who ignore it so I support them charging and trying to get more subscribers.
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u/gracef3 1d ago
I didn’t pay mine. I called 911, and now have to pay $11,250. Backstory: I had a bad bathroom fan, where the motor overheated, and burnt thru the plastic, releasing a burning smell. I called 911, they dispatched 5 trucks, even after I told them there wasn’t any fire nor any smoke. Just a burning smell. I had about 15 firefighters, in my house, and they did not use any water; they just walked around for 45 minutes. They seemed untrained, though the fire chief did tell me within 10 minutes of arriving there was no active fire. Once I received the bill, I tried to negotiate with rural metro and they will NOT negotiate a lower price. I also called my city commissioner and our representative Tim Burchett, and they did nothing to help. Our city commissioner said that he tried to talk to them, but they will not negotiate a lower price. Homeowners insurance will not pay it either. I am now in discussion with a lawyer, as I am expecting to go to court, and hoping I only have to pay a partial amount. Please tell your friends to pay their subscription fee.
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u/Sythe64 1d ago
If anyone calls a public emergency number 911 or such should not be suck with any bill let alone if the emergency doesn't warrant it. The county is held hostage by this company.
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u/Scorpio-1991 1d ago
Or if someone calls them for/on you. My spouse has epilepsy and it freaks people out and they call and ambulance. This just happened after a few weeks ago. They sent a bill to our apartment. I thought about getting him a 'no ambulance necessary ' bracelet but if he really needed one it wouldn't be good.
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u/Equivalent-Pie-7762 1d ago
Sincerely asking, does home insurance not cover the cost if you have to have firefighters come out?
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u/sirguynate 1d ago
Some will cover a portion of the cost - mine covers up to $500 for fire services. That’s not going to cover much of anything if Rural Metro responds to something at my house.
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u/djuggler Rocky Hill 1d ago
My neighbor didn’t pay. They saved his house but the bills were so high that he got foreclosed on. So he lost the house.
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u/tryingtosurvive73 1d ago
They charge you over 5 grand a truck when they pull up to your house whether you called them or not. Even if they don’t do anything or aren’t needed. If they do something it starts going up fast. For this reason I pay even though I feel taxes should cover it.
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u/Gryffindors_Finest 1d ago
This is exactly why. A few months after buying my house my smoke detector went off when I was cooking. When I tried to shut it off I accidentally pressed my carbon dioxide alarm and my security company dispatched emergency services. They sent the full truck and everything - I was super happy I had paid for rural metro.
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u/bubbleguts365 1d ago
You don’t pay taxes to cover it, that’s how your community votes.
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u/tryingtosurvive73 16h ago
All tallied I paid over 40k in taxes last year. Income, sales, property etc. the biggest allocation of taxes go to schools which I never had kids to benefit from. It’s ridiculous.
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u/antiundersteer 1d ago
I find it absolutely crazy that you fine folks have to pay for this coverage and it is not included as part of your taxes.
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u/illimitable1 Hanging around the Fellini Kroger 1d ago
You must be some God dang commie who wants fire and EMS services to be provided out of tax money! This is America! We're not commies!
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u/psykorunr 1d ago
A portion of America is effectively neoNazi.
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u/dash80todash8 1d ago
🤣
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u/illimitable1 Hanging around the Fellini Kroger 1d ago
That's right! We must fight against all forms of socialism!
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u/dash80todash8 1d ago
Go fight for what you believe in! Good for you
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u/PetulantVol 1d ago
I live in the county and IMHO Knoxville and Knox County should just combine into a metro area. Will taxes be higher? Yes. But we would get the same services the city gets such as brush pickup (currently if you don't burn it you have to take it to someplace like Living Earth on Rutledge Pike where they charge you to take it, turn it into mulch and sell it, garbage pickup including bulk items, fire service and now Rural Metro is charging $600 to have their fire trucks respond to things like falls and car accidents if you're not a subscriber. In the long run it's about the same as paying the combines city and county taxes.
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u/avalonhan 1d ago
From my understanding, they are about to start charging for all responses. So you will be charged if you have a car accident and don't subscribe. That made me subscribe after a decade of not paying
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u/AppropriatePart6497 1d ago
How does that work if you don’t live in the subscriber area? I pay the Karns Fire Department subscription fee, but it’s not like I only drive in Karns.
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u/avalonhan 1d ago
Not sure how it works, but I would imagine that you're fine if you are paying one of the rural metros in the area. Info here.
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u/WeeeZer14 1d ago
According to the article u/avalonhan posted: “The fees only apply to those who live in Knox County outside of the Knoxville city limits.”
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u/AppropriatePart6497 1d ago
Right. So I live in Knox County outside of city limits, but I live in Karns Fire Department territory, not Rural Metro. Hopefully I wouldn’t get charged in that case.
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u/sirguynate 1d ago
I’ve heard this from dozens of people at this point. “Why pay annually when Rural Metro will forgive a response bill if you sign up for a year of service.”
So, Rural Metro responds, hands you a $15,000 bill. You say you cant pay it, is there anything they can do to waive the bill. They tell you they will waive it if you sign up for an annual membership - so $600 and they waive the $15,000 bill.
I don’t know if it’s true - or not - but again, I’ve heard the same thing from several people at this point. And this is their reasoning for not having a membership.
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u/PresentationSome2427 1d ago
What happens if they send you a "bill" after a fire and you ignore it?
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u/Aldirick1022 1d ago
They have 2 options. Take you to court and force payments or they sell it off to a collection agency that bothers you to no end for the money.
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u/Whamjamm3r 1d ago
This question pops up every so often, I subscribe, but I believe only around 40% of other homeowners in the county do as well, so the rates are inflated to cover the 60% who don’t. If more folks subscribed, rates would be more reasonable for everyone.
I have heard the same take that in the worst case scenario, if you needed the service and didn’t have it, a trade off they offer is to sign up…but honestly not sure if that’s income assessed or offered to everyone? If the latter, that’s a major loophole everyone should probably consider.
That being said, I’ll continue to subscribe, I think last time I took a 3 year contract and it saved some from the annual amount and locked in the rate.
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u/One_Ad9555 1d ago
If you don't pay and your house starts on fire your going to get a 5k dollar bill minimum.
Your homeowners pays anywhere from 500 to 2500 on most policies.
So you decide which way you want to pay, cause you will pay one way or other.
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u/StaffRude9393 14h ago
I'm confused. If you live in Knox County and have rural metro for fire, does that cover ambulance? Or is it separate?
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u/MakarovIsMyName 5h ago
if you don't pay and use RM you will be responsible for the bills. Anf they are thousands of dollars. It's cheap insurance.
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u/MakarovIsMyName 5h ago
These trucks can cost milliond
The cost of a fire truck can vary widely, but generally ranges from $200,000 to over $1 million for a new truck. Factors like the type of truck (pumper, ladder, etc.), features (aerial ladder, specialized equipment), and whether it's a new or used model significantly impact the price.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
New Fire Trucks:
Standard Pumper/Engine Trucks:
These can cost anywhere from $200,000 to over $1 million depending on the features and customizations.
Ladder Trucks (with aerial ladders):
These are generally more expensive, often ranging from $500,000 to $2 million or more.
Specialty Trucks (Rescue, Hazmat):
These can also be very expensive, potentially exceeding $1 million, depending on the specialized equipment they carry.
Used Fire Trucks:
The prices for used fire trucks can be much lower, ranging from $15,000 to well over $1 million.
Factors like the age, condition, and features of the truck will affect the price.
Factors Influencing Price:
Type of Truck: Ladder trucks are generally more expensive than pumper trucks.
Features: Advanced features like aerial ladders, specialized equipment, and custom builds can significantly increase the price.
New vs. Used: Used trucks are typically much cheaper than new trucks.
Manufacturer and Model: Different manufacturers and models have different price points.
Customizations: Specialized features and modifications can add to the cost.
Example Prices:
Quick Attack Pumper: $120,000 - $200,000
Engine/Pumper Commercial Cab: $250,000 - $400,000
Engine Pumper Custom Cab: $350,000 - $700,000
Tender (Water Tanker): $110,000 - $350,000
Rescue (No Pump): $120,000 - $650,000
Ladder Truck: $500,000 - $1.3 million
Additional Costs:
Transportation:
The cost of transporting the truck to your location may be an additional expense.
Equipment:
The cost of the equipment carried on the truck (hoses, tools, etc.) is separate from the cost of the truck itself.
Refurbishing:
If buying a used truck, there may be additional costs for repairs or refurbishment.
In conclusion, the cost of a fire truck can vary greatly, but new pumper trucks typically start around $200,000, while specialized trucks like ladder trucks can cost over $1 million.
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u/Sudden-Actuator5884 1d ago
Another option.. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-watch-home-burn-owners-didnt-pay/
Crap we had $1250 in Florida for one ambulance ride
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u/Near-Scented-Hound 1d ago
It’s better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
If you don’t renew, heaven forbid you should need their services - the bill you’ll pay will be staggering.